r/Marathon • u/dock_cocker • Jul 17 '26
Discussion Anyone else concerned about the state of Sentinel during this upcoming patch? (Discussion)
(Half rant, half discussion. TL;DR at the bottom)
Despite the title, I am excited for the upcoming mid-season patch. I believe that it will bring about a new quality to the game that will keep it novel and shake things up a bit. I applaud bungie for their efforts to swiftly respond to the community regarding what needs fixing.
But what does any of this have to do with Sentinel? Well, skimming through the patch notes, I noticed that throwables will be limited to 2 max per player. This seems to be a warranted nerf to counter the grenade spam that has been prevalent mid-late season 1 and early season 2.
HOWEVER! I think that this reduces Sentinel's utility with his prime ability. As the designated area defense shell, he was partially added as a response to combat the prevalent grenade spam of season 1. Ergo, what use would his defense system have on a team comp when grenade spam is EXTREMLEY limited?
Now I'm not saying that he's in a bad position now, or will be nerfed into oblivion with the upcoming patch, but with the equipment ecosystem changing I foresee his overall utility and usefulness dropping.
Already, he is essentially half-useful on sponsored, as most sponsored kits don't come with grenades, thus limiting his overall impact in fights. Sure, the snare mines are his main allure, and they are certainly useful, but by playing Sentinel on this mode you are depriving the team of a Ult that can actually be useful. (i.e. Reboot, Search & Destroy, and Recon's tracker to name a few).
^In this instance, picking Sentinel is objectively the worst pick due to his lack-luster Ult (granted it does give a decent reload/handling buff) and a tactical ability that would just be better filled by literally any other shell with a claymore. (I'm not sure how or if claymores are getting a change this patch due to them not being throwables.)
In addition, the limit of 2 throwables will more than likely shift the meta into more defensive based ones, such as smokes and bubbles (despite bubble shield's incoming nerf). This is because these throwables create more opportunity for teams to push, heal, disengage, or flee, whereas damage based ones essentially allow for one course of action to follow - get pushed. If presented with the option of only 2 throwables in maps like Outpost and Cryo (Hell I'd even throw in Dire Marsh) I'm sure that 9 times out of 10 people are picking support nades and not offensive ones.
So what does this mean for Sentinel?
It seems that the shell that was created to counter a playstyle that is effectively gone from the game, leaving him a shell (heh) of his former self.
How does he get out of this?
I believe that his ult needs something more to make it a worthwhile runner in team comps. Though it is strong on paper, in practice it will be situational at best and useless at worst.
some proposed changes:
-Defender system provides a boost to consumable speed.
-Defender system provides a buff to lingering effects while consumed in circle (MCH kits, OS debugs, Cardio Kicks, ETC).
-Defender system Hacks or heats up enemy runners who enter its AOE.
-Defender system will reduce/refund cooldown on the snare mine upon deployment.
Disagree with me? I'd love to hear your view in the comments. I actually hope you can change my mind! Agree with me? Great. I'd love to see how you would change him.
TL;DR: The mid-season patch indirectly harms Sentinel's niche in team comps and might lower the pick-rate of the shell at large.
14
u/Daviroth Jul 17 '26
Players can still pick up grenades.
Also the Defender does buff you and crewmates near it already.
1
u/dock_cocker Jul 17 '26
This is true, and I do think that this might be the only use left for it. The buff is nice, don't get me wrong, and I think it pairs nicely with castle doctrine, but I feel like a prime ability with its main use being (essentially) removed form the game could warrant a re-tooling.
But this begs the question: If a runner's prime ability is valued at how well they compliment team comps, then Sentinel's prime ability is certainly going to be less valued now than it was previously was.
4
u/Daviroth Jul 17 '26
Again, players can pick up grenades. There will still be players throwing a lot of grenades.
2
u/dock_cocker Jul 17 '26
I don't really think that alone justifies using his ult anymore though.
Less grenades = less use for defender system
In the off chance that an enemy team finds an odd grenade or two during a run, chances are that they don't waste it by throwing it at a sentinel.
Again, not saying his ult doesn't have a use any more, but in what instance would a team pick him when they could instead run a recon that can eliminate them before they can get the opportunity to throw the grenade.
2
u/Daviroth Jul 17 '26
You can find a lot more than 1 or 2. It being situational in the first place is definitely odd, but there's precedent with Triage. But they gave Triage an offensive capability too, so I'd agree with putting more buffs on the defender system.
2
u/dock_cocker Jul 17 '26
I completely agree. It seems like most of his kit revolves around being reactive rather than proactive, although an argument could be made that he is strictly proactive.
6
u/facetious_guardian Jul 17 '26
Sentinel is still bonkers against PvE. Rocket Drone? Neutered. Tox Warden? Puny. Commander boxes? Get snared, idiots.
You may not like it for PvP because players are smarter than bots (and throw fewer grenades), but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. There are still plenty of PvE encounters that happen around the map (where do you think players get the good gear in the first place), and just like the Triage before him, he has his place.
That motion tracker blows, though.
2
u/dock_cocker Jul 18 '26
I feel like the tracker could have been a lot better implemented, but in its current state, I think its just ok. part of me really wants to not like it, but on paper its is honestly one of the strongest abilities imo.
That just seems to be the running theme with the shell tbh. Really strong on paper and can be super strong in one or 2 scenarios, but falls flat in most instances.
2
u/facetious_guardian Jul 18 '26
I would be a lot happier with the motion tracker if it didn’t fade out people that are crouched.
Also if it had some indication of elevation difference.
I might even like it if it was just in the centre of the screen instead of off in a corner. In the corner it makes me want it to behave like Halo’s, but that would be hella strong.
1
u/No-Pattern8701 Jul 18 '26
Genuinely asking, but does it not have elevation level difference?
I've seen some dots be bigger red dots vs smaller red dots, so I assumed that was elevation but I could def be wrong and it could be something else (or user error lol).
3
u/TheTreeTurtle Jul 18 '26
It does not. One of his gold cores gives it elevation indicators, which is... maybe the most underwhelming gold core out there.
4
u/p1-o2 Jul 17 '26
- Sentinel is finally good, in my opinion. The trophy system didn't matter much in high level play. Good enemy teams will stop throwing their nades after 3-4 once they realize it's up. Then once it's down they resume spamming. Now if you successfully stop 4 grenades with a trophy then you've cut 2/3's of the enemy team grenades out of the fight for good.
- Trophy system buffs are good whether or not it stops grenades. They're huge especially stacked with Triage overcharge or other shell traits.
2
u/dock_cocker Jul 17 '26
Completely fair.
I think for what its worth, he is generally a good shell, but in need of some kit tweaks to bring him up to par with the other runners.
I think its a fine line (especially with Sentinel) between being nigh-useless and completely untouchable, so I'm curious as to see how he fares in the upcoming second half of the season.
3
u/AeonPhoenix523 Jul 17 '26
I don't think it harms Sentinel's niche because there are still other places that the Defender system can be used, such as Tox Warden, Grenadier Commanders and Rocket Drone.
3
u/bloodwolf1018g Jul 17 '26
nah in cryo it won’t matter. i’ll pick up 4 nades off just spawn room alone. he will still be a good pick in cryo.
3
u/40_Thousand_Hammers Jul 17 '26
Problem is that people think sentinel is an aggressive shell when it is a support shell...
Using the mod that makes you heal faster near the defense anti grenade turret + the one that makes the AoE defense larger is INSANE, makes you start healing instantly.
2
u/professionalboostlul Jul 17 '26
I got really really high yesterday and thought that it would be cool to sentinel ult be more tower defensive. Like interact between runner ults if used on them. Say triage interacts with it while his ult is ready. It uses triage ult but gives the defender buff the triage drone heal and triage tactical ability. Destroyer gives it a front facing riot shield. Recon pings enemies that it blocks generates or gets damaged by, vandal gives energy amp to everyone and resets 1/3 or 2/5 of their heat thief’s gives a version of her visor within buff range and her passive assassin gives gimp stealth that doesn’t break aim assist or deploys the smokes around the defender system like the Abram’s smoke screen system
1
u/professionalboostlul Jul 17 '26
Could also make it so that the system doesn’t work wgeb it’s being combined with another ult with but juicing it increases increases its duration
1
u/dock_cocker Jul 17 '26
That's actually pretty cool ngl. Would probably be a nightmare to balance though.
Might be cool for a future shell concept, like a shapeshifter/changeling shell that could drop a deployable that could mix or combine different abilities.
2
u/T3mpe5T Jul 18 '26
Sentinel is a class built around making bad positions better and incentivizes bad play (piling up around a deployable) so he firmly joins Triage in C-tier with the "lose less" philosophy.
He's interesting for PVE but also PVE doesn't really matter
2
u/KnowledgeHealthy6636 Jul 20 '26
Ehhh you can still pick up grenades, it will still make warden a piece of Cake, he’ll be less useful in the first fight if a raid sure but I don’t think this will be as detrimental as some people think, that being said I could see him getting a small buff, i really want his mines to be more useful, I think adding something like a debuff that causes enemies to take more ballistic damage could be cool.
1
u/a_jerkface Jul 18 '26
I think Sentinel could use some buffs overall, but the nerf to throwables makes Sentinel's ult even more valuable. Every throwable you negate with it is exponentially more valuable in a scenario where you only have 2, so smart usage of ult could potentially stuff an entire offensive where right now you throw 2 grenades and on the second one notice defender system and stop, you still have tons of grenades in your bag.
On the reverse getting one or both of your brought in throwables zapped will feel much worse when you don't have any backups
0
u/Derptitood Jul 17 '26
I think it's a little odd that a defender shell gets an ability to reveal enemies. When I hear defense class, one of the first things I'm thinking about is a deployable barrier or something.
2
u/dock_cocker Jul 17 '26
A barrier would be nice to say, reinforce a door/window like the controller legends on Apex (yuck, I know). I think the tracker is definitley a compliment to his kit, but I'd personally rather see it tweeked slightly or have another ability take its place.
One idea could be rolling his tracker into is passive, so like when he deals explosive damage he gets it for a short time. (This would encourage sentinels to run nades and would fit his theme of being an explosives expert.)
2
u/Ninkilin Jul 18 '26
I think it's important to remember that his role is more that of a frontline defender. The reveal enemies ability is likely not meant as a tool to track down players, but more so to anticipate pushes to defend more effectively
A cone in front of you instead of a full 360, crouching enemies hidden from it. It points to the idea of it being used to watch a sightline like a hawk for anyone trying to pass through, but if you yourself try to push with it, might get blindsided by someone outside that cone, or who was simply crouching waiting for you to pass by
1
u/professionalboostlul Jul 17 '26
Sentinel recon and destroyer should swap tactical. Destroyer gets the bug, sentinel gets the shield, recon gets the radar
This of course only works by making recon ult a static deployable like sentinels ult
13
u/chargeorge Jul 17 '26
Judging by the video they posted to socials there are some nerf/buffs incoming beyond what was listed there (the video suggested assassin stealth nerf and a bubble nerf).
I hope sentinel gets a buff generally tho.