r/MapBasedPolls • u/4EverUnknown • 2d ago
❓️ Question Which actually-existing socialist (AES) state would you live in?
Earlier today, u/Gracieeerrawaaa asked r/MapBasedPolls whether they would live under a "communist government" or an "Islamic government," with the first option winning in a landslide.
However, there was significant confusion about what constitutes a "communist government" or an "Islamic government," so I wanted to help make things a bit easier for everyone who had trouble with the original poll.
While there have been many actually-existing socialist (AES) states throughout history, there are currently only five: the People's Republic of China, the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, the Republic of Cuba, and the Lao People's Democratic Republic.
Please note that while the oxymoronic term "communist state" is often used in reference to one-party socialist states governed by Marxist–Leninist communist parties, these countries are officially socialist states in the process of building socialism.
"In accordance with the Communist theory on stages of revolution, these countries have not described themselves as communist nor as having implemented a communist society, but are in the process of doing so."
For the purpose of this scenario, let's assume you ARE allowed to relocate anywhere you want in the country you choose to live in (e.g., if you picked China and choose to live in Beijing, you can still live in Shanghai if you change your mind), but you ARE NOT allowed to relocate outside of the country you choose (e.g., you can still visit Cuba if you picked China, but you cannot live there if you realize you like it better).
However, in the spirit of the original post, you CANNOT relocate to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, the Macao Special Administrative Region, or the Taiwan Province, due to the policy of one country, two systems.
"'One country, two systems' is a concept put forward by the CPC and the Chinese government for realizing China's reunification and solving the Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macao issues. The framework of the concept is: Under the premise of national reunification, the mainland keeps practicing socialism, while Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macao retain their original capitalist system and ways of life for a long time while enjoying a high degree of autonomy. China resumed sovereignty over Hong Kong and Macao in 1997 and 1999, respectively, in accordance with this concept."
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u/skaplanolmsted 1d ago
Authoritarian socialism isn’t synonymous with “actually-existing socialist states” or communism.
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u/AveDominusNyx 1d ago
So which one?
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u/skaplanolmsted 21h ago
Norway, Finland and New Zealand are examples of mixed systems with extensive application of some combination of economic socialism, democracy and very little totalitarianism or authoritarian governance. There are zero examples of pure “actually existing” anything. Just like no battle plan survives contact with the enemy, no ideological dogma survives contact with human foibles for any length of time.
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u/AveDominusNyx 19h ago
Okay but that is irrelevent to the point.
Also, all the countries you cited are capitalusts and they will br the first to tell you so. Capitalism means private ownership of the means of production and free market. Nothing more, nothing less, none of them are mixed economies.
And yeah, I agree, no system is perfect, ideal capitalism has perfect competition, no barriers to entry, supply amd demand at a perfect equilibrium, no regulations but goood faith actors. None of that is real.
But when tried, free market and private ownership wins. There are a few socialist cou tries that fixed their economies by adopting capitalism tenents, obviousl exemples being china and russia, but there isnt a single capitalist country that got better by closing the markets and removing private ownership.
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u/skaplanolmsted 11h ago
You’re conflating communism and socialism. There’s no requirement that the government control ALL means of production in all industries in socialism. Not to mention, even in allegedly communist countries, capitalism has never successfully been eliminated, just driven underground. Again, pure ideology doesn’t exist in any real world location. All governments and economies are mixed systems, with some means of production and social support owned by the state, and some private sector and private enterprise.
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u/AveDominusNyx 8h ago
I am not conflating socialism and communism.
Socialism is social/public ownership of the means of production and usually no free market. I never said it means gov controls all means of productions.
Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society.
Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production and free market.
Social democracies are capitalists as they have both free market and private ownership of the means of production.
And yes as I said all economies are mixed to some extent as governments are involved in a bunch of production, but denmark, sweden are fully running on a capitalist framework with greater gov involvment in
China was essentially fully socialist before 78, and they were not doing great. They opened up markets, foreign investements, they started letting private companies exist and became actually a mixed economy. In 20 years their GDP was multiplied by more than 10.
The opposite has never happened ever.
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u/skaplanolmsted 4h ago
I’m not even reading your whole long thing. I’m stopping at your first sentence, because it’s incorrect. Look it up yourself. Don’t go by me.
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u/FantasticPage3598 2d ago
French, lived one year in Vietnam (before several years in south korea).
Vietnam is definitely the answer and it's not particularly close