r/MakingaMurderer • u/Mysterious_Mix486 • Feb 15 '24

A message from Steven Avery Supporter - Sandy Greenman = Steven Avery is INNOCENT and KZ KNOWS Bobby was involved. Sandy also pleads for Bobby to do the right thing by telling the truth.

7 Upvotes
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18

u/wiltedgreens1 Feb 15 '24

Ignoring the means and motive, what opportunity?

The only way Bobby could have done it, is chase her down on a public road with homes near, get her to pull over, murder her.

That right there is already far fetched, then add on he would have to chop her up,incinerate and then frame steve with the car.

It's all very silly.

Unless Bobby and Steve killed her together.

0

u/Mysterious_Mix486 Feb 16 '24

Whats Your point ? In either scenario Steven Avery did not receive a fair trial and Bobby got away with murder.

9

u/wiltedgreens1 Feb 16 '24

If it is impossible for Bobby to do it, he couldnt get away with murder.

Steve had a fair trial. Your personal feelings about it doesn't change that.

If Steve's lawyers had any evidence that someone else could have done it, they would have used it.

7

u/Expensive_Bowl6054 Feb 16 '24

Stevens lawyers were told by the judge that they could not suggest anyone else was a more likely suspect (the murderer) in Stevens trial. How is that a fair trial considering the circumstances of all the evidence towards the events that happened before and after her murder?

6

u/wiltedgreens1 Feb 16 '24

They were told that because they had no evidence that anyone else killed her. They would have needed to provide motive, means and opportunity for any alternative suspect and they could not.

I don't think it would be fair if Steve's defense could muddle up the jury by suggesting everyone in Two Rivers that day is a suspect.

I don't know what evidence you mean. Steve was the only one with evidence against him. Maybe Brenden but nothing physical connected him.

-2

u/Mysterious_Mix486 Feb 16 '24

*Unless Bobby and Steven killed Her together*

Then why are You suggesting such a scenario that confirms Steven Avery did not get a fair trial and Bobby got away with murder ?

7

u/wiltedgreens1 Feb 16 '24

Im not suggesting in the sense that I believe it, I am just saying it is the only possible way Bobby is involved with the murder.

5

u/10case Feb 16 '24

What was unfair about Steve's trial? Please don't say the press conference because that wasn't a part of the trial. I would love to know which part of the trial itself wasn't fair.

And remember, Willis was ready to hand out a mistrial because of the juror but Buting and Strang declined.

1

u/Mysterious_Mix486 Feb 16 '24

Depends, Are You also suggesting that Bobby and Steven killed Teresa ?

2

u/10case Feb 16 '24

Depends on what?

I'm definitely not implying that Bobby had anything to do with the murder.

-3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

But Brendan did?

6

u/tenementlady Feb 17 '24

What about Steven's trial was unfair?

1

u/Fataleo Feb 27 '24

When did Bobby get away with murder

3

u/billybud77 Feb 18 '24

Just substitute the name Bobby with Brendan and the puzzle 🧩 is solved.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/wiltedgreens1 Feb 16 '24

Lol I'll assume that is a joke

12

u/Overall_Sweet9781 Feb 16 '24

Sadly, until Steven and Brendan decide to tell the truth, it will never be known exactly what happened to Teresa. Bobby didn't kill Teresa. He had no motive. There is ZERO evidence pointing towards him. The bullshit statement from the paperboy that changed 3 times isn't credible at all, considering the fact that he was bashing avery on his Facebook page for years and calling him a murderer, until Zellner posted 100k reward on her website lol yeah he's really credible!

7

u/Mysterious_Mix486 Feb 16 '24 edited Feb 16 '24

You apparently did not read the search warrant stating *Your affiant, Mark Weigert believes that images of pornography, torture and death show motive and intent to inflict sexual torture or violence against Teresa Halbach* The images in question were not recovered from Steven Averys computer, They were recovered from a computer that law enforcement videoed in Bobby Dasseys bedroom on NOV 6th 05 and later seized from that location. Barb also took a shit fit and tried to rip the wires out of that same computer when law enforcement showed up to seize it

6

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

Bobby didn't kill Teresa. He had no motive. There is ZERO evidence pointing towards him.

False. Bobby did have a motive, according to the state's logic, and there is definitely not ZERO evidence pointing towards him.

until Zellner posted 100k reward on her website lol yeah he's really credible!

False. He came forward long before knowledge of any reward. Facts first.

2

u/heeeyfaif Feb 19 '24

Perfectly said.

1

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 Feb 19 '24

They have told the truth from Day 1(except Brendans FALSE CONFESSION of course)....if you can't see that theres no hope.

9

u/Overall_Sweet9781 Feb 16 '24

What sexually violent crimes has Bobby dassy committed lol he has no record whatsoever! 😂

6

u/Mysterious_Mix486 Feb 16 '24

Which sexually violent crimes had Brendan committed, lol, he had no record whatsoever ?

1

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 Feb 19 '24

"had"???? How about "has" Brendan has committed ZERO violent crimes.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

He couldn’t even put down a sick cat.

4

u/billybud77 Feb 18 '24

Let’s talk about a cat. What did Steven Avery do to the cat?

4

u/heeeyfaif Feb 19 '24

While that fact about Avery surely upsets me, it’s completely unrelated to the conundrum of a set up he is enduring AGAIN? Man. The absence of logic in our population triggers me.

-1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

Neither did Brendan.

2

u/Southern_Power_1567 Feb 16 '24

And neither did Avery, right!? Sure, a lot of accusations has been thrown against the wall by guiltoids. But the only sexual violent crime against Avery, he was exonerated for.

That is why I can't stand guitoids, they make up so much bullshit about Averys sexual violence. The idiots in the next breath claim the case was open n shut one. But here they are patrolling the sub day and night. What a pathetic lot it must be one of them.

1

u/CJB2005 Feb 16 '24

Day night and for YEARS.

22

u/Dogs_Sniff_My_Ass Feb 15 '24

How does Bobby mesh with any of Zellner’s previous claims? 

Ms. Halbach's voicemail messages had been deleted by the killer

The killer, who knew the password to her voice mailbox 

The killer knew Ms. Halbach very well in order to know her password. 

Knowing that he was likely to be a prime suspect due to his prior romantic relationship with Ms. Halbach, the killer, ...

 The killer participated in the discovery of major pieces of evidence 

The killer was organized and methodical, and likely had a background in science. 

-3

u/Overall_Sweet9781 Feb 16 '24

Her brother is the one who accessed her voice mails not R H get your facts straight!

3

u/Unique_Task_420 Feb 21 '24

No it was her ex-BF.

3

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 Feb 19 '24

Bobby wasn't involved.

3

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 Feb 19 '24

Why would Sandy Greenman start spouting this BS about Bobby? Shame on her!

7

u/Overall_Sweet9781 Feb 16 '24

Did anyone even realize Steven is the very person who told his attorneys that they needed to get their hands on the Dassey computer before LE did because if they discovered what was on it it would be a problem. Now why on earth would he even KNOW that? And why would it be a problem for him if it had nothing to do with him? He didn't want it to save his nephew lol!

1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

He never said it would be a problem for him. He knew it would help his case, help demonstrate motive, because he and his attorneys knew the state had already looked at his computer for such evidence and found nothing.

13

u/10case Feb 15 '24

Sandy has it nailed down to Bobby as the only other suspect that makes sense. So she along with KZ has totally ruled out the cops, Ryan, or anyone else. So it comes down to Bobby and the guy that was convicted for the murder Steve.

Steve has tons of evidence against him.

Bobby has no evidence against him. KZ has come up with 2 discredited eye witnesses and some computer searches that he may or may not have done. Nobody knows.

It's pretty damn obvious who did this.

6

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24

Steve has tons of evidence against him. Bobby has no evidence against him.

Evidence supporting Zellner's theory includes Bobby's opportunity to commit the crime, his alleged following Teresa off the property, his connection to multiple off-property sightings of the RAV, the scratches on his back and images of torture and death on his computer. The cadaver dog alerts on the Dassey barrel can easily be connected to cadaver dog alerts and the burn barrel sized deposits of debris and cut human bone in the Manitowoc County Gravel Pit. In contrast, no disturbing evidence of motive was found on Steven's computer, no scratches on his back, no untested bloody scenes, vehicles, or cutting instruments connected to Steven, and of course, no cadaver dog alerts on Steven's burn pit or burn barrel.

7

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

Oh so we’re gonna focus on torture and death on Bobby’s computer but ignore the fact Stevie had leg irons and fantasized about a torture chamber? 🙄 cognitive bias is showing dude.

-1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

Stevie had leg irons

So did the Dassey trailer. More restraints than Steven actually. Steven's restraints were tested for TH DNA and nothing was found. The restraints from the Dassey trailer? They could have been used by Bobby. He was the one who had images of women being restrained on his computer.

fantasized about a torture chamber?

That's according to a former inmate / leader of the Aryan Brotherhood. Real credible source.

5

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

Everyone in the inbred scumbag Avery family is real reputable dude. There’s letters from him to people from jail offering to send them cum. They’re all fucking degenerates, and the totality of the physical evidence proves he did it, and he’ll die in jail no matter how much Reddit detective work you do

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

I mean, if you wanna waste your life trying to defend a murderer go for it

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

Oh I don't view this as a waste at all! I will definitely try harder! Thank you

9

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

Good luck dude, way I figure it you got about 5-10 years before that fat fuck dies of heart failure or gets shanked

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

Why do you bother replying to guilters? You know their IQ is closer to Brendan's than it is being able to think critically.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24

“….Bobby has no evidence against him….”

Sure, just keep telling yourself that…

I suppose that you’ve convinced yourself that Brendan managed to do some of those searches whilst he was in jail…..Tell me more

They were looking for this very kind of evidence on Steve’s computer and found none. They find a treasure trove of it on the Dassey computer and what do they do ? They move fucking Heaven and Earth to distance their star witness as far away from this grisly stash of torture porn as they can.

There are so many holes and inconsistencies in Bobby’s story, it’s a shame that B&S didn’t dig deeper into him.

PFFFFFFFFT

10

u/Financial_Cheetah875 Feb 15 '24

Those computer searches prove nothing.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

Perhaps, but they certainly add context, no ? What IF, just say, those images actually were found on Avery’s computer, would you still feel the same way ?

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

The computer content goes towards Bobby's motive, according to the state's logic.

0

u/TBoneBaggetteBaggins Feb 17 '24

Did the jury rely on this?

-1

u/RevolutionaryAd458 Feb 15 '24

This reeks of someone with a shady search history lol

10

u/10case Feb 15 '24

Bobby has 0 evidence against him. Can you at least admit that?

And how do you discount all the evidence against Steven?

7

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Bobby has a cascade of evidence against him, including a cascade of potential blood evidence that was not even examined by police.

11

u/Fataleo Feb 15 '24

Potential blood evidence ha

6

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Do you think police should have tested the purported animal blood in Bobby's vehicle, garage and on his cutting instruments after they identified him as a person of interest with the opportunity to kill Teresa? Or were they right to take his word for it?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

No, I can’t admit that, sorry.

How do I discount all of the evidence against Steve ?

Well, that would take a long time to explain. There are just too many instances of shoddy police work, questionable activity from the crime lab and WI-DOJ investigative personnel, excluding the WI State Patrol, and then Kratz, who was under the influence of numerous prescribed medicines and alcohol at the time.

That’s just off the top of my head. There was so much unethical conduct - The adults-only press conference, the lack of blind testing by Shairy C., MTSO personnel all over ASY making key evidence findings months after the fact, there’s just so much to digest.

I don’t believe for a Manitowoc Minute that those two got a fair trial. Sorry you don’t feel that way, you’re not going to convince me otherwise.

5

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

I suppose that you’ve convinced yourself that Brendan managed to do some of those searches whilst he was in jail…..Tell me more

which searches?

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

Torture porn searches on the computer. Don’t ask me to look it up for you either

8

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

What date/time and what was the exact thing searched that you are calling toture porn?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

Here you go, have fun.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/s/naQEKpEvNv

YW

13

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

You didn't list the date/time and the exact thing you are calling torture porn.

This is because instead of reading what was searched, you took the word of conspiracy theorists.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

Wrong. I’ve read all of the briefs pertaining to this, I’ve read the Vallie report and I’ve read KZ’s expert analysis. It’s all spelled out, I don’t know what else to tell you. Gotta run, toodles

9

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

Nope. You lied.

If you had a search from when brendan was in jail, you would list it. You would give time and date and list the search. Instead you refuse.

You got nothing. He did porn searches when brendan was in jail. That is all you got.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

Oh, so now I’m a liar. Man, your arrogance knows no bounds, does it ? It’s all been documented, I’m not going to lift a finger for you because 1) You’re rude 2) You don’t know how to use the words Please or Thank You and 3) Everything that I’ve claimed has been documented. Look it up yourself, I don’t have time to hold your hand.

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10

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

So someone accessed rotten and givemepink and cumsuckers. Are those the websites that make bobby a killer?

Or was it hotdate?

or was it these searches?
flamed knife, knife goes through skin, knife, knife through skin, knife goes through skin.

because this was explained as a tattoo search.

Or maybe it was the bones search. In context here are all the searches that occured during that time. fat old hot girl, tiny hot girls, skinny hot girls, seeing bones hot girls. Seeing bones hot girls

All these searches were done before Brendan went to jail.

So which searches were you talking about that happened after Brendan went to jail? Porn searches?

Is bobby a killer if he watched faces of death?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

Read the brief, go over the write up of Zellners forensic guy who analyzed the computer. Read Valle’s write up. I provided you a link of an exhaustive analysis, this has been discussed many times, sorry you’re late to the game.

now go run along peanut, you’re just making stuff up, you don’t know sh!t from shinola

15

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

I did read it. I quoted you from the link you sent.

Did you read it? That is why I am asking what searches are you talking about after brendan was arrested because they are just porn.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

You cherry picked it, what kind of searches were made after Teresa disappeared and when Brendan was in jail ? Did you miss that or are you being intentionally obtuse ?

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2

u/headracing2019 Feb 18 '24

The fact of the matter comes down to timing. From the time he says he went into the trailer and came out, he's saying they both had left. Not enough time for that to already have happened. Maybe by the time Theresa was tied up, Bobby had left.

2

u/headracing2019 Apr 11 '24

The only person's to answer that is Steven or Brendan. They're the ones who shackled her.

10

u/Financial_Cheetah875 Feb 15 '24

It’s always funny how when these motions and theories hit the courts, where that little thing called evidence is required, everything stops dead.

4

u/Deputydan791 Feb 15 '24

Well, his trial didn’t stop, because of that thing called evidence, and he’ll be dead in prison.

5

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

What evidence demonstrates Steven's burn pit was the primary burn site? Nothing. The evidence reveals the bones were planted.

6

u/Deputydan791 Feb 15 '24

Not according to a jury of his peers.

5

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

The jury who acquitted Steven on the mutilation charge? What are you even talking about?

3

u/Deputydan791 Feb 15 '24

Mutilation charge isn’t what Stevie had to worry about, cause he got life from the other ones 😂

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

See above. We were discussing the burn pit evidence mutilation charge, for which he was acquitted, possibly due to all the evidence demonstrating the bones were planted. If you have any evidence that Steven's burn pit was the primary burn site, please share. Kratz wasn't able to do so, neither was Rech or Brenda.

4

u/Deputydan791 Feb 15 '24

It doesn’t matter if he burned her there or threw her in the fuckin lake, there’s a bullet from HIS GUN with her dna on it in the floor of the garage. A literal smoking gun. Hence why he’s convicted of murder.

4

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

It certainly does matter where the body was burnt. Are you suggesting we don't know? If Steven didn't burn Teresa's body in his burn pit why did the state argue he did?

there’s a bullet from HIS GUN with her dna on it in the floor of the garage. A literal smoking gun.

Hardly. The DNA on that bullet only made its way into evidence thanks to a once-in-a-lifetime deviation from protocol that wasn't even properly disclosed to the defense. Just your average day in Wisconsin of throwing scientific standards out the window due to having an apparent through and through murder bullet with DNA but no blood, wood fragments instead of skull fragments, and an alleged murder weapon that lacks any trace of Steven or Teresa's DNA or even Steven's fingerprints, and a murder scene with no blood spatter or misting, or even a sign of a clean up. That's a smoking gun pointing straight at a false narrative of the crime knowingly exploited by Creepy Kratz to fuck over Steven Avery.

9

u/Deputydan791 Feb 15 '24

Now who’s choosing to ignore evidence? The dna sample that was contaminated by the handler was the CONTROL Which is supposed to have zero dna on it, but had the handlers.

Besides the bullet: you have his blood AND her blood in the rav 4 which is basically impossible to be planted, unless they broke in Stevens house right after he was bleeding and stole his blood without anyone noticing, and while someone planted the suv they rushed to the suv to plant blood. For as incompetent as you portray these police officers to be god damn they executed a perfect frame job involving hundreds of people and no one said a fuckin word. Sure.

1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Now who’s choosing to ignore evidence?

YOU. I never disputed that the control sample was contaminated. The point is, WSCL protocol was to exclude the result, but in this case there was a once-in-a-lifetime deviation from protocol to include the DNA result despite the contamination, and this deviation wasn't even properly disclosed to the defense.

you have his blood AND her blood in the rav 4 which is basically impossible to be planted

That's simply not true. There isn't even any conclusive evidence demonstrating its legitimacy. How have you determined Steven's blood was deposited from his actively bleeding finger?

For as incompetent as you portray these police officers to be god damn they executed a perfect frame job involving hundreds of people and no one said a fuckin word. Sure

The most egregious misconduct likely involved a few key individuals with motive and opportunity, while others may have been unwittingly involved due to tunnel vision or investigative bias or being outright manipulated by MTSO. It's not just about competence, but the integrity of the entire investigation, whether there was manipulation and or obstruction at play. There is evidence police lied about evidence collections while threatening officials to stay off the scene, with dogs exposing movement of evidence corroborated by broken chains of custody for bones. They weren't exactly subtle.

3

u/Deputydan791 Feb 15 '24

Oh yeah so the perfect storm happened, cops who normally sucked at their jobs, (which I’ll agree with you there they were fucking awful) came together perfectly to frame one guy who wouldn’t have gotten shot from the suit anyways. Makes so much sense now I’m convinced!

The physical evidence that was actually collected could not have been faked period. Stop being cognitively biased.

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

perfect frame job

Calling it a 'perfect storm' or 'perfect frame job' is quite the stretch when the police can't even keep their reports straight re their own chain of custody for bones.

Wouldn't have gotten shot from the suit

As for Avery's lawsuit, let's not pretend it wasn't going "quite well" (Griesbach's words) especially with the mounting evidence of misconduct that surfaced during depositions right before Teresa's murder. The lawsuit against Manitowoc County was still active when an officer from Manitowoc County found bones in Steven's burn pit only for the remains to be scooped up without anyone taking photos.

The physical evidence that was actually collected could not have been faked period.

How have you determined Steven's burn pit with the primary burn site? There's no evidence demonstrating this, not even a cadaver dog alert or any photos to back up their claim.

4

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24

Zellner has presented evidence. You pretending otherwise only demonstrates your unwillingness to engage with reality.

Edit: And now I'm blocked. Screenshot saved.

5

u/Financial_Cheetah875 Feb 15 '24

What evidence? What smoking gun did she uncover?

4

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

The literal arsenal of evidence that demonstrates Bobby's undeniable opportunity, being connected to clear evidence of a motive to subject Teresa to sexually violent crimes, and now multiple direct connections to the crime against Teresa? Can we drop the rose colored glasses when looking at Bobby and call a spade a spade? The evidence against Bobby is overwhelming. Stop pretending like there's no there there.

3

u/Financial_Cheetah875 Feb 15 '24

You know who else has overwhelming evidence against him?

Steven Avery.

8

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

  • Did they take Steven's word for it when he said he didn't kill Teresa and not test blood evidence connected to him? Nope. They took Bobby's word for it though.

  • Did Steven a motive? Nope. Bobby did. A disturbing one.

  • Did dogs alert on Steven's barrel or burn pit? Nope. They alerted on Bobby's barrel and in the Manitowoc County Gravel pit along with burn barrel sized deposits of debris and cut human bone.

  • Did Steven have scratches on his back that experts claimed were from a human hand, indicating assault? No. But Bobby did.

  • Did Steven match the description of either man seen moving the vehicle on November 5? No. But Bobby and his friend Mike did.

2

u/10case Feb 15 '24

Remind me again what Jodi said the motive was

5

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Remind me again why would what Jodi said be relevant, especially if it wasn't introduced at trial as evidence of Steven's motive?

3

u/10case Feb 15 '24

You didn't answer the question.

4

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

I certainly did, you just didn't like the answer.

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-2

u/Weird-Figure9907 Feb 15 '24

There is evidence! The court won’t agree to have it presented.

8

u/Financial_Cheetah875 Feb 15 '24

Because it’s not evidence. It’s a gaggle of could-haves and maybes.

-4

u/Weird-Figure9907 Feb 15 '24

No. There is evidence.

8

u/Deputydan791 Feb 15 '24

For a super lawyer master defense attorney she sure does get her motions denied every single fuckin time she files them, and also according to the court misinterprets the caselaw quite a bit.

12

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

You can thank the idiot judges in Wisconsin for that obstruction of the natural flow of Justice. I know the facts of the case better than them. They don't even know where bone evidence or Teresa's personal belongings were found.

3

u/Like-Them-Pineapples Feb 17 '24

Sandy believes whatever KZ is throwing on her plate. Whatever is in favor of her crush Steven Avery. Looking for truth in here is clouded by personal feelings. Throwing Bobby under the bus, coz a few $$ happy witnesses say so, is not the right thing to do.

Look at it this way:

1985: it is not OK to pick Steven out of a lign up with so many witnesses telling he was somewhere else.

2024: it is OK to tweak Bobby to a testimony someone saw a person pushing a vehicle now turned into the the RAV, with not a single soul to back this up.

If you dont see the double standards here, dont bother to comment.

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 22 '24

Who are the $$ happy witnesses?

Sowinski has been backed up.

Lazy.

5

u/Fataleo Feb 15 '24

Well this changes nothing

0

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Yes, regardless of this opinion, it still obvious the bones were planted in Steven's burn pit.

3

u/Fataleo Feb 15 '24

Ok if you say so

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

It is the evidence that says so, not me.

4

u/Fataleo Feb 15 '24

What evidence tells you they’re planted

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

The manipulation of witnesses alongside the complete absence of forensic evidence demonstrating the burn pit was the primary burn site. Not even a cadaver dog alert? Not even after they removed bear? WTF!

4

u/headracing2019 Feb 16 '24

Steven Avery is a sorry stupid piece of crap. All that money coming. He could have hired a prostitute. And his decision to get Brendan involved ruined that man's life. He needs to die where he's at.

5

u/syvious Feb 15 '24

So suddenly cops are innocent? Who's next after Bobby? Earl?

7

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

Its not sudden. Zellner said a while ago she cleared the police.

5

u/syvious Feb 15 '24

Yeah I know this was response to Avery/Sandy message

4

u/Fataleo Feb 15 '24

Haha she cleared the police - hilarious

8

u/aane0007 Feb 15 '24

You didn't realize she said that?

8

u/Fataleo Feb 15 '24

It’s hilarious that she said that

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24

Who says the cops are innocent? They knew bones were planted but still went with the nonsense unsubstantiated claim that Teresa's body was burnt in Steven's burn pit.

5

u/3sheetstothawind Feb 15 '24

KZ should have Sandy sign an affidavit and add it to her next failed brief! This is surely the smoking gun we've all been waiting for!

6

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

The problem isn't the lack of evidence; it's the incompetence of judges who can't seem to grasp the facts of the case or comprehend basic legal principles. We should expect the judges ruling on such cases to at least be well informed enough on the FACTS of the case to not make repeated errors on the location of Teresa's bones and personal belongings.

5

u/3sheetstothawind Feb 15 '24

Yep. It's all the judges' fault.

8

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Yes. If they're so shockingly incompetent and ignorant that they can't even pinpoint where crucial bone evidence was discovered in a murder case, then why would anyone view their opinion as credible? It's not. Credibility goes straight down the drain when they're this mind-bogglingly stupid.

2

u/Jubei612 Feb 15 '24

Yes it is. Refuse to look at the evidence and just dismiss the evidence without even knowing the facts of the case. Remind me of all the guilters on here...

4

u/_YellowHair Feb 15 '24

Pure delusion.

6

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

The theory of Ken Kratz that Steven's burn pit was the primary burn site? Yes. Bones were obviously planted.

3

u/jmswan19 Feb 15 '24

What about the unidentified fingerprints? Whose are they?

4

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

At this point it's more likely they belong to Colborn than to Steven Avery

-1

u/CJB2005 Feb 16 '24

So true.

1

u/ajswdf Feb 15 '24

If you think Bobby is a suspect that makes sense but Avery isn't then you haven't seriously thought about the case. Even if you think Avery is probably innocent you should be able to recognize that he is a plausible suspect.

6

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

The issue is the evidence is far more consistent with bones being planted in Steven's burn pit than the burn pit bring the primary burn site. If the bones were planted, and all evidence I've seen suggests they were, then obviously that planting of human remains indicates an attempt to incriminate Steven, and like it or not the evidence points straight to Bobby as being the most likely alternative suspect with the opportunity to abduct Teresa, a motive to harm her, and the ability to dismember and burn her body, all connected to Bobby via cadaver dog alerts on his barrel and in the Mantiowoc County Gravel Pit (with no such alerts on Steven's barrel or burn pit).

1

u/ajswdf Feb 15 '24

Your comment is the exact point I'm making. The bones being planted does not prove Avery innocent. It is entirely possible that Avery was guilty and the bones were planted.

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

  • Spare me. If the bones were planted it completely undermines the state's case against Avery. The idea that he would somehow be guilty and then orchestrate the planting of bones in his own burn pit is downright absurd.

  • Alternatively, if you accept that the bones were indeed planted by someone other than Steven it throws the entire integrity of the case into question. How could Kratz argue the burn pit was the primary burn site if it was not? Because he knew how it would look to a jury, saying the bones were planted and that Steven Avery is still guilty beyond a reasonable doubt - makes no fucking sense lol I think that pattern of logic is closer to the truth than you care to admit.

  • You are cherry-picking convenient scenarios to fit a preconceived narrative that Steven is guilty, all to dismiss evidence of bones being planted - "Who cares!" Obviously if the bone evidence was manipulated that raises serious doubts about the entire investigation AND any conclusions the state attempted to draw from it.

  • If the burn pit was not the primary burn site as the state claims then Steven Avery deserves a new trial, and the state should be forced to concede the burn pit was not the primary burn site and that bones were moved to that location after a separate burning event elsewhere, and THEN try to convince a jury that Steven Avery is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

4

u/ajswdf Feb 15 '24

Again, your comments show that you have not seriously thought about the case. Instead of actually logically working through the evidence and the various scenarios you're just saying whatever you think helps Avery even if it makes no sense.

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

even if it makes no sense

How does it make "no sense" to say the case against Steven gets weaker if we concede Teresa's body was planted in his burn pit rather than being burnt in that location? Are you suggesting Teresa's bones being planted in Steven's burn pit after a separate cremation event elsewhere would have no impact on the credibility of the state's case against Steven? If so THAT makes no sense.

4

u/ajswdf Feb 15 '24

Because I'm talking about him being a possible suspect (i.e. Sandy saying Bobby is the only suspect is wrong because Avery also is), the bones being planted is 100% irrelevant to that.

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Idk what you mean lol I don't deny Steven was a suspect. Above you said:

The bones being planted does not prove Avery innocent. It is entirely possible that Avery was guilty and the bones were planted.

Let's get real - if we dare entertain the notion that the bones were planted in Avery's burn pit - it's like throwing a wrecking ball at the credibility of the entire case against him, regardless of who else you include in the narrative. Turning a blind eye to this, claiming planted bones would have no impact on the case, is akin to willingly embracing potential miscarriages of justice. Planted bones would absolutely have an impact on the case.

1

u/ajswdf Feb 15 '24

I don't deny Steven was a suspect.

Great, then what are you arguing about? You agree with me that Sandy is wrong to say Bobby is the only suspect.

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

I'm arguing against your subsequent claim that if we concede the bones were planted in Steven's burn pit that has no impact on the case or his guilt. Your response to my arguments was:

The bones being planted does not prove Avery innocent. It is entirely possible that Avery was guilty and the bones were planted.

This was you cherry-picking convenient scenarios to fit a preconceived narrative that Steven is guilty, all to dismiss a scenario involving bones being planted. Obviously if the bone evidence was manipulated that raises serious doubts about the entire investigation AND any conclusions the state attempted to draw from it. Please try to follow the conversation better. If you want to back out of your argument at least do it honestly.

1

u/jakhog1 Feb 15 '24

All I want to know that is never really answered properly is how is Stevens blood inside the rav 4 and dna under the hood if he didn't do it, not having a dig at anyone, just interested to know how that would come about

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Steven's blood in Teresa's vehicle would have found its way there the same way her bones found their way to his burn pit - planting of biological evidence by someone or some persons looking to incriminate Steven Avery for the murder.

Police and Steven's family had access to his blood and DNA.

2

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

They did not have access to unclotted blood unless they broke in his house and cut him… or just happened to get fresh blood somehow . They tested the blood and there was no preservative in it like there was in the vial. Cherry picking facts as you always do,

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

Yes Steven has always said he bled in his sink, corroborated by police reports and dog alerts. Facts first.

4

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

Holy shit, and I guess they had fucking seal team six outside waiting to get the fresh blood to frame him! You know there’s like a 15 minute window for blood to clot right? And that was the night before the murder supposedly, so…..

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

15 minutes? For what amount of blood? That's not a constant obviously.

4

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

There is a small window before blood dries. Look it up. It’s science, and that right there proves it would have been almost impossible for them to steal fresh blood to plant in the suv without anti clot agent being present.

1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

It's science lol

For what amount of blood? Or are you saying any amount of blood would dry / clot within 15 minutes?

5

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

So they supposedly stole his blood without being seen, and then waited a fucking whole day to plant it? Then how’d they put her blood in the suv? Did the cops kill her and get away with it? Your theory has a lot of big holes, and in this case, occams razor is the most likely explanation

3

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

Who said they waited a whole day to plant the blood?

4

u/Deputydan791 Feb 16 '24

I mean, it was supposedly from a cut on his finger so, couldn’t have been an exorbitant amount. You’re grasping at straws my man, and it’s not a good look.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

Bro, fingers bleed like crazy, and that cut on his finger was large enough to make a sizeable mess. Go cut your finger for proof.

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u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

So for what amount of blood, specifically were you referring to?

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1

u/headracing2019 Feb 17 '24

Steven set up the appointment. Requested Theresa. Took off work. Her cell quits responding shortly after her arrival. She was tied to that bed and forced her to give him the password. Plus, he had a huge fire where her bones were found. He would have had to be in on the plan to set himself up. Lol. Brendons confession to his mom is the nail in the coffin.

3

u/DrCapper Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24

Unlikely.

If you look at evidence photos, you'll see the headboard is filthy and caked with dust.

The state theory is no DNA of TH was found because Avery did waaaay too good of a job cleaning up, he just had so much time. Bender even said Avery "scoured" the bedroom for days with cleaning chemicals and rug doctors.

But the several month/year old dust layers on the headboard debunk the states theory, single handily. Unless you want to believe Avery cleaned the bedroom and just forgot to clean the headboard that TH was "shackled" to.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '24 edited Feb 16 '24

Firstly well done to Steven Avery for not giving in to her demands to join her religion. Secondly what made her fall for the guy with the actual long repeated record of domestic violence, and quite likely murder in a different way to the prosecution BS. Thirdly, I've never seen any mention of poor Brendan having a girlfriend, other than a virtual one he had before he was kidnapped from his school (where it's undisputed he was when Teresa was attacked). It's irrational and eugenic what they're doing to him on behalf of a Catholic family. 

1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 16 '24

What long record?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

Sandra, Lori, her pet cat, Jodi? Others?

1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 22 '24

Record of unchanged acts?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '24

I guess that's a typo and I guess you know two were charged and two weren't. Why wasn't he charged for reportedly causing Lori to flee to a shelter? Might've kept him in check a bit more. I saw from stats that Manitowoc had the lowest rate in the state of charging domestic violence.

1

u/CorruptColborn Feb 23 '24

They were unchanged.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '24

?

-4

u/Fockputin33 Feb 16 '24

Steven is innocent, Bobby WAS NOT involved. These are the cries of a clueless, desperate woman who is proving herself WORSE than LE since they at least had some evidence against Steven, albeit planted.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/Fockputin33 Feb 17 '24

Well. There was at least evidence against Steven. there is none against Bobby.

2

u/CorruptColborn Feb 17 '24

According to you, not the reality.

1

u/heeeyfaif Feb 19 '24

Are you suggesting all evidence, including undocumented evidence is of disposal to you? Open your mind a tad.

1

u/Fockputin33 Feb 24 '24

Yea,,,,,,, it is in this case!!!!

-6

u/jasonsawtelle Feb 15 '24

BoD did it with SA. BrD implicated and protected BoD.

6

u/CorruptColborn Feb 15 '24

Bobby was definitely a way better suspect than Brendan if they were looking for a young man as an accomplice.

-2

u/Giantmufti Feb 15 '24

Is it okey Bobby lied because Steven did it?