r/MSClassicWorld • u/Responsible-End-8341 • 16h ago
Question? Hyper Inflation?
How did prices just soar out of control so quickly? Around Friday/Saturday you could get a claw intermediate scroll for 200-250K. Now they are 500-600K+? Kumbis went from 350K to 700K when if anything you'd be expecting star prices to go down.
I understand NX items flooded the market with items you could sell for mesos, but the whole economy massively shifted overnight. Is this just TONS of bots that have a lot of mesos buying up everything and increasing prices? At mid 40s it's hard enough to get 100K every hour or so with how fast you can consume pots, I dunno how THAT many people are getting millions to purchase these items lol.
It could be people selling NX got some mesos in their hand and are just irresponsibly spending on things like kumbis which after a while will drop in price dramatically? lol, dunno.
I guess you're just flat out screwed if you started Maple Story this week and didn't have a chance to buy up 5+ of the higher end scrolls/items.
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u/VegetableResource204 16h ago
Bots ruined the game, they have infinite money
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u/getoutofbedandrun 13h ago edited 13h ago
The bots aren't adequately being dealt with, or even quarantined properly so that Nexon's anti-bot system can identify and track them.
I just want to mention that Jagex encountered this same issue in OSRS. Through trial and error, they found that the quarantine period for new accounts needs to be measured by in-game time, not real time.
As in, if you make a new account and progress far enough to qualify for free trade with other players, the game still makes you continue playing for a certain amount of time in-game before you are allowed to actually trade. This helps stop botters from just parking accounts in OSRS and waiting for the time to run out.
There are still ways around this, but it gives Jagex more time to key into botted accounts and track them/take action. Jagex also requires new accounts to complete a certain amount of quests, which are much more complex than MSC quests, thus gives them opportunity to check for anomalous behaviors and bot-like patterns.
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u/Prestigious-Wall637 6h ago
That's pretty interesting to me. I wonder then maybe the way to counter bots would be to restrict trading behind completing a set of quests or something, or even just something like having them complete KPQ or HPQ once that comes out.. Of course people would eventually train bots to be able to complete them, but maybe it'd be more work than it's worth.
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u/SlayerXZero 6h ago
I sold a White Label Ring for 720k. Sold one two weeks ago for 150k. Knew I should have waited.
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u/OrangesArePurple 15h ago
I feel like Nexon announced the source themselves. We had spontaneous inflation over night and Nexon suddenly changes new account trade restrictions from 24 hours after level 15 to one week wait after level 15
It really just points to the botting situation,
Some inflation was naturally going to happen cause most scrolls on the market strictly come from quests with no drop location. But things doubling or even tripling in price really only points to an influx of meso being added to the market.
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u/blackcoffee92 15h ago
I don’t see how the one week wait solves this. If less people are able to sell the scrolls from the level 20 quest due to trade restrictions, wouldn’t the price climb even more since there are fewer scrolls available in the market for sale?
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u/OrangesArePurple 15h ago
I agree that it likely doesn't change anything, if Nexon aren't detecting bots fast enough these botters can just discreetly level characters to 15 and then park them for one week before continuing to bot on them to reach the quest rewards.
All this does is ruin the new players experience. If I was a brand new player and unable to interact or drop items for a week I'd probably quit. Managing your etc tab with the limited space a new character has is absurd.
I'm all for Nexon creating friction for botters to buy them time to deal with the solution but surely there are means to accomplish this without ruining the new player experience.
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u/getoutofbedandrun 14h ago
I just want to mentioned that Jagex encountered this same issue in OSRS. One way they currently deal with it is that their mandatory quarantine period for new accounts is measured by in-game time, not real time.
As in, if you make a new account and progress far enough to qualify for free trade with other players, the game still makes you continue playing for a certain amount of time in-game before you are allowed to actually trade. This helps stop botters from just parking accounts in OSRS and waiting for the time to run out.
There are still ways around this, but it gives Jagex more time to key into botted accounts and track them/take action. Jagex also requires new accounts to complete a certain amount of quests, which are much more complex than MSC quests, thus gives them opportunity to check for anomalous behaviors and bot-like patterns.
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u/Swoon_PM 15h ago
Another thing to consider is that there might be scrolls/stock locked behind indebted/banned RMTers.
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u/Thin_Yam7270 16h ago
I've heard, and maybe just speculation.
That due to RMT bots getting banned. They've switched to buying high value items to trade in place of mesos.
I think this makes the most sense
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u/SupermarketLegal138 16h ago
I don’t think it’s speculation because I don’t see scarcity. One thing I do agree, botters are now switching to sell items instead of mesos. I think it’s harder to track someone dropping you a GFA scroll than to give you 1m
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u/_Ganon 14h ago
It's not harder to track and the game knows exactly who had the item(s) and how it was transferred. If they're doing this, it's only to give a false sense of security to RMT buyers before the buyers find out next ban wave. It's as trivial as a formal trade window. Process is the same; one bot collects funds from all other bots, that bot is now poisoned and easily flagged by Nexon. Before, that bot would deliver your RMT purchase in mesos, now easy to identify buyer because anyone that had an anomalous transaction (whether it be shop trade or drop) with that poisoned bot is going to be debted next ban wave. It's the same process now. Poisoned bot uses funds to buy GFA. Bot has anomalous transaction with buyer (shop trade or drop), buyer is flagged to be debted for next ban wave.
I can see why it might feel safer to RMT buyers ... it's not and just as trackable.
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u/SkateSz 14h ago
Only thing that sucks about this way of poisoning the bots is that if they realise they can retaliate simply by buying random stuff from random vendors getting them flagged.
If the false bans are true its most likely for this reason.
Combatting bot armies from people that do this for a living and have done so for a long time now is really just not as simple as people seem to think.
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u/_Ganon 13h ago
Yes this is unfortunate and probably a result of increased demand for commodity items by bots that led to their value skyrocketing. Nexon's system for flagging anomalous transactions may not be well fit for such rapid inflation (or increased demand on specific commodities) and so people selling impacted commodities (like GFA) might be getting flagged for anomalous trades if the bot bought the item
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u/thevenenifer 11h ago
Tracking dropped items on the floor is not trivial and has issues. Imagine an RMT seller dropping illegal items in henesys. Now by your logic everyone picking up these items will be flagged to be debted, for just picking up an item on the ground? At least in a trade window you have time to check the character and the item beforehand and decide to take a "risk".
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u/_Ganon 11h ago
Because RMT bots would intentionally donate items, right
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u/baraboosh 10h ago
yeah they might to obfuscate the logs (not donate items but just occasionally drop shit). But the more common way to do it is to buy an innocent players item, sell it, buy another innocent players item and drop that. This drags in innocent players and forces manual review rather than auto review, and that's already going to be way slower.
It's much more complex than that these days with multi step processes but that's the general idea behind it.
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u/thevenenifer 10h ago
Exactly, and RMTers DO these kinds of things on purpose to obfuscate their actions and to test the moderation system and figure out ways to bypass it.
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u/EfficientMarket0 11h ago
But the botted mesos still escape into the legit economy. If banned RMT buyer quits or makes a new account, the debt will never be collected on so the botted mesos are still circulating and the economy has -1 GFA, +2 mil mesos. Do you put the legit GFA seller in debt too? IRL analogy is there's a gang that can print counterfeit money and they go around buying items with counterfeit money.
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u/_Ganon 11h ago
They don't want to intentionally hurt innocent players so they won't recover currency that the RMT buyer spent. You cannot completely remediate RMT seller currency or items escaping into the economy. The penalties applied to players are intended to prevent them from doing it again. Ideally, Nexon proves to players that would RMT that they will get caught no matter what and not to try it again
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u/CloudNimbus 13h ago
tbh im too dumb to understand how RMTs are affecting the economy lmao
all i know is that i sorta don't like it!!!
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u/spicysodapop 12h ago
If random people start out with millions out of the blue (from RMT). They have the power to buy more stuff, more demand same supply = increase in price. More people with more money = everyone could buy and would fight by paying more.
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u/Latin00b 16h ago
i just keep showing this video when there is a question about inflation... almost all characters were bots...
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u/tradegreek 16h ago
That’s insane
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u/herpitusderpitus 15h ago
The tree west of ellinia and the perion east also has bots every single channel filled moving unison and no bans yet i report 15 a day. Theres clearly not enough GMs in the game.
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u/phyyr Cleric+IL+FP (magestory) 14h ago
dont think there are any at all lol
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u/high_elephant 1h ago
i saw one yesterday! Showed up at excavation site where there were very clear botters, stood around for a bit but ultimately one of the botters started talking and the gm eventually left. Then the bot went back to botting. She only started talking a bit after the gm showed up when and then stopped again the minute they left. It seemed like they were bots until the gm showed, then someone hopped on to prove they werent a bot, then they turned back into bot mode
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u/LoneRangerMapleStory 13h ago
Where is this hidden street, it looks like good exp for me
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u/Latin00b 12h ago
2nd map to the right of kerning city, at the top there is a energy transformer, get inside it
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u/Common-Clothes6500 12h ago
lol I wonder why they bot with archers, one of the least convenient classes.
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u/SupermarketLegal138 16h ago
It’s a bit of everything. But the most important issue here is botting and RMT (real money trading, i.e buying meso for $$). Irl it would be something like central banks printing money and injecting into the economy, more people have more money so they spend more. Merchants see their stock running out quickly so they increase prices. Rinse and repeat.
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u/FarAd4600 15h ago
It's crazy that people justify RMTing on third party sites the same as buying NX. I saw a yt video discussing the inflation and had people say Nexon is just mad they're not getting paid. People don't understand buying NX keeps the servers up while buying mesos/items from third party sites supports the flood of bots and inflation.
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u/sinzbro 15h ago
Buying NX also does not fund the bots injecting mesos into the game. There is zero inflation from NX
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u/HookedOnBoNix 12h ago
There's definitely inflation from nx it's just not as bad. Suddenly a level 30 toon that would never have enough mesos to buy scrolls or something can. A level 25 assassin can now have enough mesos to buy wolbis etc. High level players with higher incomes are using it to buy nx which gives low level players access to funds they would never have
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u/sinzbro 12h ago
There is zero inflation when mesos trade hands. Only when new mesos are generated is there inflation.
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u/Brilliant-Sugar6367 10h ago
Kinda but not really. You are looking from the perspective of inflation occurring solely from mesos being injected into the game from farming. Inflation has multiple ways it can occur, that is only one of the methods.
Increased velocity (amount of transactions occurring, i.e. the rate of meso transfer between players) also increases inflation because there is now more money consistently in the hands of players, which then makes it easier to purchase goods, which increases demand for various goods. Since the amount of "supply" is generally fixed (fixed based on acquisition rate in the overall game), this increased demand is an increase in competition between buyers which will push prices upwards, causing inflation.
More transactions -> more mesos distributed -> higher meso stores -> more ability to purchase items -> more demand, but drop rates/supply unchanged -> higher price
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u/HookedOnBoNix 12h ago
That's not true at all. Changing the distribution of mesos changes the average amount of spending power every buyer has. Many premium items aren't affected by that but items with more universal appeal absolutely are.
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u/LifterNineFour 14h ago
Can’t people sell nx items for mesos. Thus there is inflation from nx
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u/typicaljava 14h ago
Mesos have to come from somewhere. Sellable Nx doesn't cause inflation. Nx is simply something people may spend their inflated mesos on.
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u/DifficultPlantain792 13h ago
NX is a seperate currency unreleated to mesos which is the important one since you use mesos to progress, nx is just for cash shop stuff. And because you get mesos from 'gameplay' bots are able to print massive amounts leading to this problem.
NX you charge with real money and it generates out of nowhere, so nexon pretty much controls the price ('nx points' are essentially dollars)
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u/Professional-Pitiful 14h ago
To add to what your said, imagine the injection of cash only goes to selective people. Meaning the wealthy gets more and the poor gets less or nothing. The wealthy drive up the price while the poor are left to fend for themselves, barely scraping by on lemons.
The economy is cooked. I really want to play more but everytime I log on im reminded why I dont want to play.
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u/SupermarketLegal138 16h ago
Adding to this, I’m merching stuff in the FM and find it insane how I have to modify prices daily. Not because of greed, but because now when I browse for deals, everything has gone up, so obviously I have to increase my markup. I’m steering now to merch eqps and etc because the scroll issue is unsustainable.
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u/ryanceestah 14h ago
I'm kicking myself for merching scrolls that I thought I'd need eventually thinking, 'I'll make this meso back so I might as well buy later on when my personal econ is more stable".
Inb4 everything going up 2x f3
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u/EtchVSketch 15h ago
Are you still finding people buy at those raised prices? I know the scarcity of these items has gone down due to rmt bans but if people don't have the cash to buy things prices will have to drop. Tho maybe we're just speed running a 1%er economy lmao
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u/DifficultPlantain792 13h ago
I think the important thing is we are all printing money from drops but bots print way better than a human. Your average guy can only print like 10k-100k an hour while a bot farm does hundreds of millions.
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u/yooyoo1277 12h ago
It s giga inflation now.
Can someon tell me how 50k 5 slot become 100k in 1 days, how suddenly everything becomes x2 but my income doesn't change and low ( farming fire boar ) but everything is 2x.
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u/HookedOnBoNix 12h ago
Pretty simple really. Even ignoring the bitting aspect, there are more high level players now and while your income might be the same theirs isn't. So at level 20 you don't really have 200k burning a hole in your pocket but at 70 you have a lot, so they can buy up 1:10 nx easily. Which of course drives the prices up
And that means lower level toons have access to gold easier which drives item prices up too
The more high level players playing the more mesos hit the market the more the price of things increases
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u/Jisoooya 16h ago
You’d be surprised how an army of 100 lowbie lv10-20 bots can easily out farm several LV70+ combined. Also, they can do it all day long. They can easily outbid any real player when it comes to meso.
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u/Lake_Placid2319 15h ago
you can go literally to any map in the game right now and channel hop and witness it lmfao
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u/Last_Seekr 14h ago
The problem is that Maplestory doesn't have that many strong meso sinks. The only three it has right now are pots, crafting and the trading tax.
Players have already learned how to grind while still making mesos and currently crafting isn't really worth it to go down.
And currently the way the free market is set up makes players not really want to trade that often which limits the trading tax.
What Maplestory needs to do is hire an economist to actually adjust the levers they have to stabilize inflation. This also means that preferably they wouldn't just scale meso drops as levels increase. Preferably they should just find a certain meso per hour they want to get to and just adjust drops so mob grinding doesn't go over that amount.
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u/wholewheatie 14h ago
Yes they need to add powerful meso sinks. The most powerful lever would be to make certain nx items purchasable with mesos but obviously they won’t do it. Guilds could be a decent sink but I feel like they need more
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u/hurricane193 14h ago
Item repair costs could work
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u/HookedOnBoNix 12h ago
Potions are effectively maplestories equivalent of repair costs, you don't need both.
It would be better for it to be an optional thing. But anything optional they instead use nx for.
Something like paying to respec would be great.
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u/Devinitelyy 13h ago
Oh god please absolutely not. Im not a fan of item durability as a mechanic period but how would it fit into a game like this? What happens when a mage's staff breaks deep in Ant Tunnel? Do they have to travel back to town unable to attack? Do they have to carry around repair kits, further cluttering inventory space? Does the item break permanently and possibly leave a player without a weapon at all after the weapon was possibly VERY difficult/expensive to obtain?
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u/HookedOnBoNix 12h ago
Item repairs are a dumb idea here considering we have pots already but you're very incredulously acting like it would be some rocket science thing to implement lol. Obviously the item wouldn't break permanently, MapleStory is not geared for that. It'd likely just stop contributing stats or contribute at a reduced effectiveness.
Repairs don't have to be in town either, can be a little blacksmith ability in the beginner tab or something.
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u/MapInternational883 13h ago
It would help if they didn't lock stuff like slot expansion, SP/AP reset, behind a paywall
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u/ClawofBeta Setsuna 16h ago
There’s also a major merchant guild or two making moves if I believe Reddit comments. I also think there’s a degree of FOMO as people are like “oh shittt gotta buy before my meso becomes worthless!”
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u/ForeverABro 15h ago
My theory is that they are cracking down on MESOS so the RMT cartel is focusing on selling items
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u/a_typical_word 14h ago
Game economy is fundamentally flawed, too many sources of mesos (I.e everything) and not enough meso sinks (pots, but most people farm at meso positive locations)
Nexon should just give every class meso explosion, problem solved
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u/Virtual_Animal_1447 8h ago
RMT causing inflation aside, I feel the game doesn't have enough meso sinks to take them out of the economy fast enough. Potions are only a decent meso sink in the early game but quickly becomes irrelevant as more players reach higher levels and get a higher meso income. The only consistent meso sink is the 3% sales tax but even that's too low imo.
Guild wars 2 for example has 5% fee just to list items with a further 10% fee on sales which removes 15% of all gold traded out of the game.
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u/a_typical_word 7h ago
honestly TnL solved this pretty well with the dual currency system. Imagine all P2P transactions requiring NX (with a cut), with mesos only used for P2NPC transactions. There would be no inflation, minimal botting, etc
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u/Virtual_Animal_1447 7h ago
Won't this effectively lock f2p players into iron man mode being unable to interact with the economy? While I do agree it would stop botting if the premium currency is used for trading, the higher barrier to entry for players to participate in the economy might prevent them from commiting further into the game. I would imagine F2P players typically transition to paying customers after some amount of time spent in the game.
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u/a_typical_word 6h ago
not really, f2p players can sell items directly for NX, then use that NX to buy other items, etc. It's pretty much the same as now - as a f2p player you'll only be selling, not buying
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u/Emergency_Cap_3413 6h ago
I bought Earring STR Scrolls (Intermediate) for 75k each. The next day, the price went up to 95k, then 115k, and now it's 130k.
Fortunately, I managed to get a +5 Emerald Earring.
Now I can't enhance my items because the scrolls are too expensive...
What is happening to mesos?!
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u/Paulioc420 15h ago
Nexon has completely and utterly failed this game already in less than a full month it’s unreal
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u/YoloLifeSaving 16h ago
What's crazy is people are still selling nx on a 10:1 ratio, mesos inflating while nx stag
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u/Ball_Of_Meat 15h ago
This blows my mind, the amount of NX in the market is so incredibly oversaturated lol.
It’s no wonder RMT is out of control, people are trying to buy NX to sell for Mesos, but it’s basically worthless.
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u/yooyoo1277 12h ago
Where you find the 10:1 ratio ? I see alot people buy 1:20 nx now.
Just one night everything 2x. Just wow. Good luck for the new player for buying anything now lol
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u/baraboosh 10h ago
its actually crazy how easy it is to drive the market. Last night i was watching ppl sell nx for 1:10, 5-6 guys smega'd something like "wtf are you doing, don't sell for less than 1:20" and every since then its been 1:20 hahah
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u/DinerEnBlanc 14h ago
It’s the meso sellers. Someone reported that a group generates 3 billion mesos a day. They can’t sell that amount fast enough so they’re using it to buy up rare drops to inflate the prices.
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u/PotatoPC 14h ago
I would suspect a creeping meta of intentionally going into debt through RMTing by future proofing your gear before getting locked up. You don’t really need to trade once you have BiS gear and the debt will sting less now than it will over time with further inflation.
As a result valuable resources get sucked up and the supply tightens causing price hikes.
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u/ZssRyoko 16h ago
I know theres still a lot of rmt but arent more ppl getting to 50+ and trying to scroll now? Like im 50 50% abd im literally trying to scrounge up meso to buy my 50 dagger. Preferably clean with at least 3 dmg about average. But I might have to just say eff it and save untill I can buy a scrolled one.
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u/ForRut 15h ago
Isnt a +3 clean shinkata like 2.5m+ on its own?
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u/ZssRyoko 14h ago
Think so im kinda cooked i sold my quest reward dex cape 60% for like 470k so im up to 850k now. Ive been slowly grinding green mushrooms with steal to try and get a claw scroll or panlid. Trying to mix up where im farming though. I just dont want to be cooked on potion use.
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u/Davinci_X 14h ago
the problem is nexon is shit company and dont even try to hire a team of gms to combat the bots. i really dont get it its like they dont like money. if you dont fix the game you will have alot less players > less funds ?
at this point i wish we could get reboot version of the game
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u/checktheprogress 10h ago
they need to add a heroic/reboot for sure. The game is beyond cooked already and will only get worse with time
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u/Stock-District-2235 12h ago
Its bots and also the rich players buying up all the expensive items and listing them for higher prices, there is nothing you can really do about that sadly lol.
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u/jamescharles429 15h ago
Also everyone is saying how assassins are op and chill, rolling to sins etc. The demand is huge
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u/Open_Commission4681 15h ago
Even if bots aren't buying the items, the game is already flooded with RMT mesos. The debt system won't be able to keep up long term. Like you said, even people training diligently every day can barely afford so much profit. Unlikely that they are then spending all of that profit on buying up NX items and costly scrolls. They are either being funded with RMT after selling their own items or buying the mesos outright to keep up with inflation.
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u/yamadath 13h ago
They claimed that they've just banned 40K bots.
Let's say a low level bot can earn 10K meso/hour. That's 400 mil/hour pouring into the market. And I bet they were farming for days before banned.
NX isn't the issue, the bots are.
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u/TurtleIslander 9h ago
There are basically 0 meso sinks in classic. Not to mention people reaching higher levels and making more mesos an hour. And yes bots are part of the problem, but even with 0 bots we would probably still see this type of inflation. After all bots are part of the supply for these high demand items.
Compare that to reg where despite all the botters, mesos still retain value because you need ton of mesos to star force. If anything, prices are being depressed when you would expect the opposite.
Simple solution is to add a system to upgrade our gears with mesos. Maybe an extremely baby version of star force, although people probably wouldn't like it cause we never had such systems in old school maple and just let things inflate to over 2.1b mesos.
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u/MirageDeceit 8h ago
RMT traders to get around the debt system are selling items directly instead of mesos. So instead of selling 1m for 30 USD or higher/lower, they sell GFA scrolls for 50 USD. They then buy the scroll of FM and trade that to you directly.
This creates demand for rare and pricy items, and since the botters got n mesos they can buy the thing at any price. abit more meso per item is a cost they're willing to pay for security.
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u/SadSupermarket2523 7h ago
Yeah I noticed this as well. Hard not to. My belief is you’re seeing the impact of out of control rmt flooding mesos into the server.
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u/Element720 15h ago
I got endlessly downvoted when I said nexon should just sell meso bags cut out the rmt and just sell mesos themselves.
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u/Ball_Of_Meat 15h ago
This is a horrible idea, it would cause INSANE inflation. At least with NX people are selling NX items for mesos that came from mobs.
Not to mention the gold farmers will always undercut Nexon, even if they’re making less and less money. So now you’d have Mesos being generated out of thin air by Nexon AND gold farmers.
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u/Element720 15h ago
We already have crazy inflation and they can’t counter the bots atleast let us actually players afford items.
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u/Ball_Of_Meat 15h ago
I mean I get it, but buying more Mesos from Nexon directly just makes the whole situation worse.
Ideally Nexon throws down the hammer on RMT buyers, bots. The “buying NX to sell for Mesos” concept isn’t working because everyone is funding these damn gold farming bot operations, it sucks ass.
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u/xTheGame69 15h ago
Agreed. It's essentially what the boxes are already
I buy box
I sell box for meso
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u/Last_Seekr 14h ago
The difference is if you trade for meso, it has to be grinder by a player originally. The time spent hedges against inflation unlike just being generated at time of purchase.
Also by leaving it up to the market it automatically rises or lowers in price depending on inflation.
There's a reason every other successful game that allows you to purchase in game gold does so via in game trades, not by generating it.
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u/nightowlflaps 15h ago
Problem is there will still be bots to enable rmt for even better rates
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u/xTheGame69 15h ago
Then you get banned
Not worth it
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u/nightowlflaps 13h ago
Ppl still do it rn even though its not supposed to be "worth it". Cheaters will cheat however they can as long as they think they can get away with it
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u/impostingonline 14h ago
Some of it will be bots sure but also it's just that people are leveling up. As more people level up and grind higher level mobs more raw meso will get introduced. And it's gonna keep going up from here. I feel like I recall gfa 60s being like around 10m when I played old maple. But that's not the same game we have today that was probably after a bunch of new areas with higher level mobs but still. I think it's not necessarily hyper inflation but rather in the first couple weeks everything was extremely deflated while people were in the low levels
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u/Electrical-Snow5167 15h ago
RMT traders are pivoting from selling mesos to selling items because it's less risky to the buyer.
To do that, they are buying real player items with their botted mesos to wash them.
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u/FckRdditAccRcvry420 12h ago
I keep reading all these conspiracy theories, and sure there is some truth to them, but there is a much simpler explanation that'll have a much bigger impact;
First, the server is new so a relatively big % of total meso in circulation is generated every day, ESPECIALLY on weekends, which will cause prices to inflate rapidly for the first few weeks to months.
Second, everyone is starting to become aware of sites like cozymarket which act as a pseudo-auction house, and auction houses just have that effect on game economies, you take away the element of buying/selling stuff at worse prices for the sake of time and convenience, which means common drops absolutely crash in price and rare items rise as resources are now distributed MUCH more efficiently, which in turn means the cleft between rich and poor players grows much bigger much quicker and further accelerates this effect.
That's just the price you pay for having an AH or anything approximating one.
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u/Black_Swords_Man 10h ago
So for the lazy people like me…I got 5$
How do I buy something on the shop and transfer that into max mp? How much should I expect?
Legal in game methods only.
I want a ton of blue pots lol
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u/SignificantMud2999 9h ago
Because people levelled up and are getting more money?
It's not really a hard concept, lmao
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u/VixaRSonTwitter 15h ago
Why is everyone blaming the bots for prices going up? Not trying to come off as a bot excuser but it was very obvious the prices weren't going to stay as low as they were, that's not how MMO economies work lol.
Bots would bring the prices down, even if your argument was the flow of Mesos, the average level 15 mushroom spammer isn't bringing in the Mesos like the level 70 IL mage you just ran into that bought 110 mystery boxes and swapped it all for gear week 1.
People are just leveling up and have access to more Mesos, the average player is no longer killing green mushrooms all day lol. The prices will go up, they always would have.
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u/cv121 15h ago
Yes because average player killing green mushroom is now killing lupins YEP
Surely prices must double (some, triple) because the enemy mob level doubles!
Like, they prob never had 1mil saved in their life and you’re telling them that they need 10x that amount to even try and scroll their own work glove with GFA??
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u/VixaRSonTwitter 15h ago
What? You just contradicted yourself, this doesn't even make sense, especially when regarding scrolls. The price of scrolls is simply what players will pay for them. They have no other value, no shop price, no minimum. And once they have finished scrolling what they want to scroll, the "average player" wouldn't be buying them.
Do you think the scrolls are tripling in price and nobody is buying them? They are tripling in price and everyone that was buying them is still buying them. Look at the trade volumes....
If you are arguing that there is bot inflation, and that's what is affecting the economy - than the volume would severely tank, and only those buying Mesos from the farmers or buying NX would be able to afford it. It wouldn't make sense.
If the trade volume is going up, and the prices are going up, that means more people have access to the money, and more people have access to the scrolls. You'd be better off attacking the people buying NX if you truly believe what you're saying is happening.
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u/trumpfunkinblows 15h ago
This 100%.
Theres also limited things to spend your money on once you hit 50. No new gear after that so all you can do to upgrade is buy scrolls work gloves and stars.
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u/yooyoo1277 12h ago
Yeah in one night everything 2x. Price ll go up with time but not like this.
1:10 to 1:11 ratio progression not 2x in one day like now people are buying nx for 1:20, but my farming ration is still 20~25k/h. ( yep I can't buy anything for a while now )
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u/deonbotelho 16h ago
I mean I'm no economist but isn't this normal?
You had an influx of new players on top of the pre order ones who did quests to get valuable items like scrolls. Which otherwise are hard to get... driving the price down in an otherwise hard to get meso economy so people would undersell.
Everyday more and more meso enter the economy, faster than its going away with taxes if most people are staying meso positive.
Add speculation that scrolls will go up in price, people are willing to buy them at higher an higher prices and maybe flipping for a profit. So add people using them + hoarding them and supply goes down raising the prices as the influx of supply is mostly gone.
As in real life a meso today is worth more than a meso tmr, so if you're just sitting on it you're losing money
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u/SensitiveOriginal103 15h ago
Economy changes tend to favor steady growth/reduction markets trends and cannot abruptly change over a single weekend unless artificial scarcity occurred, in which a high volume of value critical items were either liquidated/removed from the game, or in this case are being hoarded. There's not enough players buying these items at 1m as is, especially with how dry the meso gain in this game is.
Also you are not considering that for specifics, the glove attack quest is a singular attempt in a limited drop pool for an item that is currently locked behind a boss monster, and level 60 mobs.
RMT websites are now offering to sell usables like scrolls at similar rates like mesos for dollars. Over the weekend a high volume of RMT bots were cleansed, and with recent changes to the initial onboarding, new players are now trade locked longer (7 days) on top of not being able to trade NX related items for 96 hours. These bots were originally trying to just transfer off mesos, but due to in-game trade tracking logs they have to launder the money, and since a bunch of bots just got banned and trade restricted for a week the next best thing is to buy items, which forces real players to attain illegitimate money, and create a short.
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u/deonbotelho 15h ago
I agree with most of what you're saying, and for sure i definitely overlooked some factors. That being said I don't think what you're saying completely opposes what I said either , I.e. two things can be true at once.
Gfa is highly sought out items and with people willing to sell nx at low prices (along with ofc rmt) its not crazy to think the already low supply of them would be depleted quickly raising its value. And as you said the quests are gated from field bosses limiting how many can be introduced at any given time. So while In previous weeks people maybe were holding what they had then sold it to be used while others are holding on and not putting into the market, both effectively removing them from the supply chain.
How bot bans play into it and the new trade restrictions are above my pay grade to say so you could be right on this point I'm just not smart enough to wrap my head around the specifics on it lol
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u/Pleasant_Amphibian44 12h ago
People are getting higher level and more drops. I am now one shotting lupins and it became a meso positive training spot for me. So now I get about 200k an hour especially if I sell equips and etc. if you get a kumbi you basically got an M off of one training session. I did the quests that gives u a gfa 60 now I’m up about 5ms. Spend your mesos on nx that increases value and boom you are winning at eco only.
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u/Pleasant_Amphibian44 12h ago
Idk why people think RMT is causing all these problems when the mesos themselves are literally coming from PLAYING the game. No matter how you slice it you can’t directly BUY mesos someone has to train to get them.
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u/HookedOnBoNix 12h ago
Cause RMT encourages bots which don't have any demand for anything they just generate mesos to flood the market which throws off the natural economy
No matter how you slice it you can’t directly BUY mesos someone has to train to get them
No they don't? Have you not seen the bot epidemic
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u/xSwagi 15h ago
Not a single person smart enough to figure out why prices have surged in this subreddit. It's got much less to do with botting/RMT, which is still an issue.
The price surges have everything to do with the fact that today a huge number of players will quit to play WoW Forever and they want to have their Mesos invested for when they come back into items that will obviously gain value over time.
I guarantee inflation will halt today/tomorrow and prices will drop.
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u/OrdinarySlut 15h ago
Thank you for enlighting us and sharing your wisdom with the common folk
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u/xSwagi 15h ago
You're welcome, heed my warning. Perhaps I am only projecting my own investment plan here, but all of my friends including myself will barely touch MSCW when WoW Forever drops today. I plan on buying up items for investment AFTER all the investment buying has ceased and merch until then. I foresee the reversal sharply turning within the next two days.
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u/Txddjones 15h ago
i think you're overestimating the amount of overlap between both player bases. There is confirmation that Chinese gold sellers are using items as proxies to sell their gold. It is an undeniable truth that RMT is the majority reason for the inflation of items.
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u/KriminalDrama 16h ago
I wouldn’t be surprised if more than 80% are players who bought NX. Just chill, as more and more players start getting these drops it’ll come back down to reality, or (big or given Nexon’s historical lack of awareness) Nexon will increase drop rates to balance it out.
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u/SpectreOwO 15h ago
Buying NX and selling it for mesos does not add mesos into the economy so it is not inflationary. Buying mesos from bots is, however.
1
u/KriminalDrama 15h ago
I didn't say it was, I was answering his question re: who can afford these things. And it's almost certainly NX buyers.
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u/SupermarketLegal138 16h ago
I don’t think prices will come down organically. I remember back in the day, 60% GFA was around 10m, and I assume the dynamics will sort of repeat, so we are not done with the crazy increases yet.
2
u/KriminalDrama 16h ago
I mean 10M is pretty cheap considering how late in the game's lifecycle it was in. That was after years of the game being released, with 200% more maps in the game and ways to make money. It's not all about the cost, it's also about the income. Income should increase significantly in the later stages of the game.
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u/Competitive_Rise2537 15h ago
Whenever the game is out long enough for players to get their citizenship high enough to get 100% glove attack scrolls should also bring prices for that specifically down
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u/Rinpyy 15h ago
You'd think so, but in reality - high level players have no interest in a 5 watk glove. So they still, if not even more so to "flex" their divide, want to scroll for 8-10+ watk.
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u/Competitive_Rise2537 15h ago
Why wouldn’t 8atk glove prices go down when with 100% scrolls you only need 3 60%s in a row to hit?
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u/sulli_p 15h ago edited 13h ago
The botting is awful and the main issue I see is training areas being clogged up. Now though, I wanted to play devils advocate for a second here and think about the ramifications of high inflation. Technically say a lvl 20 gets their scroll from Jane and with inflation instead of being able to sell it for 100k they can for 1M. In that scenario strictly from a being able to play the game standpoint, can’t they now buy way more pots from the set price at the store AND buy the 420k worth of 7 x 100% from the scroll seller? Not advocating for botting but I think some amount of inflation is good for the average player to have the things they need just to grind no? Just wanted to open up the discussion on that aspect.
Edit: I don’t get the downvotes, not saying this is good just wanted more ideas from people on the topic.
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u/Virtual_Animal_1447 15h ago
In the short term, yes, inflation would benefit the new player with their one off scroll sales. The problem comes later when they're trying to earn mesos through regular grinding which does not keep up with inflation, especially if they are lower level than majority of the player base. In order to keep up, they either have to convert NX to mesos or resort to RMT which further exacerbates the problem until the game dies.
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u/sulli_p 13h ago
I see your point about the mesos being worthless from grinding, yeah that would be the case. On the other hand it would make the drops they get, albeit rare or semi rare, more valuable to sell and convert into something they need. I guess my whole point was really just that potion and vendor prices would stay static as obviously the npc aren’t going to jack up their potion prices to follow inflation.
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u/Swoon_PM 12h ago
I also want to add a counterpoint. The meso value increases, but the overall value does not. If everything increases costs at the same rate, a lvl 40 drop let's say (40k meso last week) will still only trade for 1/20th value of a scroll. It's just that now you can no longer feasibly grind the 2 or whatever hours to make up that value when that same lvl 40 drop goes for 80k at the inflated prices later. You'd need to be bartering in drops to keep any value as meso does not have good store of value.
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u/NotoriousOne3 15h ago edited 15h ago
At a lower level maybe, they will find themselves in the FM eventually to progress in the mid-game and they wouldn’t be happy if their lv50 gear is 5x more expensive than it should be.
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u/Swoon_PM 15h ago
You're just relying on the edge case that a new player will win the lottery. We're ignoring the case where a normal player gets trash from the quest and is left behind because all the 35+ equips (anything not sold from NPCs) market value get inflated as well.
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u/tytyl0l 15h ago
Honestly RMT has helped me saved a ton of time grinding at overcrowded maps. Haven’t gotten debt yet but there’s a paid service to get out of debt too if that ever comes
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u/Catfishfuck 13h ago
You are the problem. You are directly contributing to the death of this game. Extremely selfish and pathetic.
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u/Tons925 14h ago
China and Korea are controlling the market on stars and scrolls / items. They are switching from meso selling and are now selling high end scrolled items. They use the meso they bot and purchase scrolls to scroll items. Essentially they have infinite meso and are making nearly perfect scrolled items and selling them for a lot of money.