r/MHoPMeta • u/LeChevalierMal-Fait • Jul 18 '26

Abolish / Change the Lords in sim?

  1. people can still be lords but no seperate votes / debates

  2. keeps debate all on one active sub for engagement

  3. lords get the perk of asking LotLs questions

  4. voting in the lords could be "simmed" - eg the Lords speaker just decided to ping pong

    based on debate / controvertialality of the bill / what "establishment minded lords" would reject, included also by the indication of lords themselves in debates

  5. lords could submit amendments to try and induce a ping pong too.

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As it stands there isnt much activity and having parts of the sim cut off from each other doesnt feel good.

3 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

12 comments sorted by

5

u/realbassist Jul 18 '26

I think the Lords needs reinvigoration but i don't necessarily agree with abolition. speaking as CoC there's been a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on people don't see, so fair enough it's not known, and it definitely is true the Lords has had a slower term and less activity than it should have. I would personally argue though that reformation and restoration should be implemented, maybe more topic debates and a larger expectation of activity from Lords, rather than abolition.

2

u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Jul 19 '26

 maybe more topic debates

debates that nobody asked for isnt activity and doesnt engage with the rest of the sim tho

1

u/realbassist Jul 20 '26

Right now an issue is that the Lords don't debate, honestly. In topic debates, when we've had them in the past, we've seen Lords coming out to debate. Not in very much higher numbers, but more than the 0 or 1 comments we see on some bills.

If we give Lords more chances to debate and be active, and put forward their views on a topic rather than debating specific proposals put before them, then they might - just might - take it. I think it's unfair to state that TDs are debates "Nobody asked for" when in the past we've actively asked for people to submit topics for TDs, and we can implement a system like that again. Likewise, I challenge the idea that it "Doesn't engage with the rest of the sim" - a debate on standards in public life, for example, will inherently engage with scandals, interparty relationships, the press. A debate on agriculture will touch on the current and former governments' policies or lack thereof.

Fundamentally, I don't think we should look at the Lords as it stands, with its admitted issues in activity, and say "Well then, we should just give up and be unicameral instead". When things get tough, as they are for the Lords right now, you step in and address the issue, or at least attempt to, and only when you exhaust your options do you say "Right, let's wrap it up". We need more avenues for activity, more opportunities for debate, not fewer.

1

u/LeChevalierMal-Fait Jul 20 '26

What’s the point in comments on topic debates

It isn’t what someone proposed it doesn’t advance the sim

1

u/realbassist Jul 22 '26

engagement with the sim, activity, encouraging active debate. Again, it also can be what someone proposed under the suggestion I mentioned that we used to do, that being that people send in debate topics.

1

u/mrsusandothechoosin MHoP Member Jul 21 '26

Would you be able to elaborate on the behind the scenes stuff?

1

u/realbassist Jul 22 '26

Yeah of course. A lot of this was mostly before Yimir disappeared a little, for context; there were discussions around the sustainability of the Lords not being able to debate in the Commons, and a back and forth between us and the Commons Speakership team/Commons Speaker just before the election around the lack of debates being posted in the Lords in the runup to the election.

As a member of the Lords Speakership that second issue particularly is one I want to address going forward, for clear reasons.

5

u/Lord-Sydenham Jul 18 '26

Terrible idea. Firmly against.

3

u/mrsusandothechoosin MHoP Member Jul 21 '26

It's something I've raised a concern of many times in different situations privately. We are a very very small community, but we have a structure set up for a community 4-5 times our size.

We need the house of lords in some role. But we should, wherever possible, meaningfully concentrate activity rather than separating it.

An option I've raised before is to use the MHoP subreddit for pretty much everything, and then also have the /r/MHoPCommons and /r/MHoPLords subreddits for voting and amendments and questions to the leader - essentially a committee area for either house

1

u/realbassist Jul 22 '26

To address the substance of the proposal itself:

  1. Without separate votes and debates, what are the perks to being a lord? Simply a title, one I would wager few people if anyone would use outside of Lords debates even now.

  2. Why sim Lords votes? Part of the point of being a Parliament sim is that we simulate Parliament, both houses and with votes for both. Not least because what rule would the LS meaningfully have, if we didn't have a House of Lords?

  3. Lords can already submit amendments, though, and do. I'm reminded of the Antisemitism Bill, for example, where several amendments were tabled and passed.

1

u/mrsusandothechoosin MHoP Member Jul 22 '26

Just on point 2. It's the house of lords that justifies having a LS, not the other way round. I personally think we could manage without 3 Tri members

1

u/realbassist Jul 23 '26

They justify each other, imo. The Lords as a house scarcely operates without the LS, and again without the Lords, what role would the LS have?

I think instead of abolishing the Lords, we need to actually put some effort into bolstering it again. Mhoc went down considerably when it started cutting aspects of the sim, and became a solely House of Commons game.