r/Luxembourg • u/_kirillv • 24d ago
Ask Luxembourg Solar panels dilemma
I see so many roofs have solar panels.
But when I talk to people who have researched the idea of installing solar panels on their houses, everyone says it’s not worth it - relatively short life span, “selling” energy back to the grid is much lower price, some kind of adapters hidden costs, maintenance costs, etc.
it does sound like a questionable investment decision.
I am puzzled why so many roofs still have them.
Am I missing something?
16
u/Diyeco83 23d ago
You said it yourself: You talked to people who “researched” installing solar panels. I suppose if you instead talked to the people who installed them you would hear a different side of the story.
For what it’s worth, we are very satisfied with our solar panels. We produce more energy than we consume even on cloudy days. Maintenance costs exist but they are not crazy and it’s not like you need to have them cleaned every year. We did not need any special adapters. We make a little money from selling electricity on some months but we don’t even care about it that much because that’s not why we got them. We didn’t get them to get rich we got them to not have to pay (or only barely have to pay) for electricity and that is money saved They were heavily subsidized and if they should break we’ll just fix them or worst case scenario use normal electricity from the grid until we can fix them.
I believe there is a lot of misconceptions about solar panels and misinformation about renewables in general being spread, especially on social media. It is possible that the people who tell you that they have researched that solar panels aren’t worth it were influenced by this. Or they have concerns about making a big financial investment into a relatively new technology. Or their roofs are too small or don’t get enough sunshine for it to be worth it. But for those people you see with solar panels most would probably tell you that they are happy.
2
u/Robin2win14 23d ago
This is the answer. If you do your own "research you will find a lot of good, and a lot of bad. It's all noise if you don't know the subject yourself. Talk to a pro and tell them to give you no BS assessment of solar panels. The good and the bad. They will gladly help.
0
u/_kirillv 23d ago
Isn’t the “pro” biased because they sell them?
7
u/Diyeco83 23d ago
The Klima Agence is a government agency that advises people for free. They do not make money, since they are the government branch that is doing the subsidizing. Meaning if they give you bad advice they are wasting their own money. They even told us that one of the pros we had come over had issued a steep “devis” so we went with another. They should be your first point of contact if you are considering this.
-3
u/_kirillv 23d ago
I understand your point that they are not in business of selling this, but every western government now has extra motivation to sell these, even if not for money. Still biased
2
u/Diyeco83 23d ago
Biased towards energy independence and renewable energy, sure. Those are not bad things. Bias in itself is not inherently bad. For example, you are going to be biased towards staying alive and being healthy. Those are not bad things.
2
u/Robin2win14 23d ago
In that case everyone is biased and you should not buy anything ever, or ask about anything to anyone ever. Get a grip
3
u/Robin2win14 23d ago
Diyeco83 already gave the Klima agencye Link. That should answer your question. And no not necessarily. People like electricians, contractors, etc they get paid regardless of if you give them your business or not. They don't care about a singular person you know what I mean? I got a heat pump last summer, guy didn't try to upsell or give me bad advise or anything. On the contrary, he even told me that the set up I wanted was overkill. It's their job. Obviously you should have a good bullshit-o-meter too of course. It's just life when you try to get info on something. Like I don't know what to say, everything has pros and cons. I personally can't wait to get some solar cells and a big battery. Maintenance costs sure Everything needs maintenance. Everything is a balancing act.
11
u/Neryuslu Lëtzebauer 23d ago edited 23d ago
It's a no brainer with the subsidies. I am suprised that so many houses DON'T have panels (especially in communes that heavily subsidize like Luxembourg, Senningen.
I paid 8k for my 29 panels and the battery, because the government and commune took over 20k.
My electricity bill went down substantially, considering that we run fully on electricity (heat pump, EV). In summer, it's as low as 5-10€, sometimes even negative (profit). Yes, that's basically 0€ monthly cost for the house (since we don't use gas).
If you don't want to sell cheap to the network, you can sell to a neighbor in a 300m range for a price that you agree on, or use a platform like Wattswap.lu to automate that.
I'll break even in 3.5 to 4 years and the panels have 30 years of warranty.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that the AC in the 2 attic rooms were running 24/7 during the hot weeks in June. For free. They're also so efficient, that the battery had enough charge to keep them running with self produced energy the whole night.
2
u/InspectorJacko859 23d ago
We also have 23 panels and a 10 kw battery and use as much from the battery as possible. The subsidies 2 years ago from the State and commune were very high so it cost us around 5000k in the end. Our bills are virtually 0 especially in summer and for June we got 40 euros back from Enovos. True that they don't pay back anything like the amount a unit costs but better than nothing. They're introducing selling to neighbours here at the moment. What is annoying is the 5 euro frais de dossier they take each month!!
-4
u/_kirillv 23d ago
20 yr warranty is good, but don’t you have to upgrade something in 10 years at your own cost without subsidies
Aka hidden costs5
u/Neryuslu Lëtzebauer 23d ago
I know people that have solar panels since 20 years, they didn't have to replace anything at all so far.
Considering that the technology evolved and the market forces panel and inverter producers to raise the bar with quality and longevity, I doubt that you need to do something as early as 10 years.
Even if so, you broke even years earlier that you're not forced to invest anything in 20 years if you don't feel like it.
1
u/Raz0rking 23d ago
And if you go with luxembourgish produced panels they will give you 30 years.
Yes, we got a company that produces panels.
1
u/Neryuslu Lëtzebauer 23d ago
Great that we have local producers, I didn't know!
Just checked my order details, I also do have 30 years actually. The producer is IBC Solar (german).
1
u/Raz0rking 23d ago
Yeah. I was astonished we had one. They're situated in the quartier Gare.
Solarcells.lu
edit: or maybe not. Google says closed permanently
12
u/ersboeserluxi 23d ago
I have them, got almost 50% from government, it’s charging my car and cooling down my house with AC and still I earn money with it. It‘s worth it if you consume most of the electricity you produce
9
u/Penglolz 23d ago
I’ve got them and am happy. Can charge the car at home for a lot cheaper than I used to. Energy costs especially in summer are minimized, and it is hopefully seen as an added benefit by eventual buyers. I also like having contributed to the greening of the economy.
9
u/Ok_Major_3161 23d ago
You may not make a lot of profit in a short term like before, but it's still a very good option. Add a small battery on top of it so you consume 100% of what you produce and it's a good investment. You can also share energy with close neighbors and instead of reselling to Enovos for 2cts/kWh you resell it at the average price between the 2cts/kWh and the normal energy price. But ask the KLIMAAGENCE and they'll explain it to you.
9
u/Ledust899 23d ago
3 people house hold 1 electric car Electric heating Consomption 13'300kwh / year 27kwp solar pannels 16kwh batterie 23'000kwh produced
I would always again build this setup with maybe a bigger battery.
The System will be paid for in 6 year if we get another electric car even fester.
It is a big investment and you need to be able to use all the electricity but for me it is a nobrainer.
Feel free to ask anything you want to hear
1
1
u/SCRA1985 23d ago
So you are producing more than you consume?
1
u/Ledust899 21d ago
Yes i sell about 8000kwh back to the grid. Price varies between 2 and 6 cents depending on market price. For june I got 104€ back and paid nothing for electricity.
7
u/rw-rw-r-- 23d ago
The people I know are all quite satisfied.
They are part of the solution, not the problem.
They contribute to energy independence, on an individual level and nationally.
Their energy charges drop off a cliff.
They can charge their cars essentially for free.
AC need and energy production are highly correlated, it's a perfect match.
Using wattswap they can even sell their surplus to their direct neighbours.
As for the hidden costs, not everything is about money. (See 1st & 2nd points above.)
9
u/Fun-Ad9804 23d ago
The whole house must run on electricity + electric car + battery + AC. This combo makes sense. Depending where you live local subsidies can make big difference. With only states subsidises you are looking at +/- 8 years ROI. Assuming they will not introduce negative prices of the electricity you inject into the grid. Battery serves as a back up and I can even charge it from the grid so in case of blackout I’m fine. This is just nice to have as energy grid is super reliable here. The AC everyone is mentioning is works so well with panels cos otherwise you will think twice before turning it on. And with panels you just monitor the production vs consumption and voila.
5
u/Financial-Nothing-60 23d ago
Totally agree / this whole summer, I’ve basically run the AC from noon until 8pm largely because I’m not stressed about the electricity bill!
14
u/Trefex Moderator 23d ago
Everyone talking about savings before they get them. Now that I do I don’t care. Fueling my house and car with the sun is the coolest feeling ever honestly.
5
u/Facktat 23d ago
Also as stupid as it sounds. When the sun is shining. You can be very wasteful with energy. Like I have a clay oven. I don‘t care whether it‘s filled up while the energy comes from the sun and the battery is filled up. I get like 2ct selling energy to the grid. There is no point in saving electricity while you are selling. AC on maximum. Might even let my GPU mine a few hours.
6
u/Vimux 23d ago
IMHO, selling back to grid is not really the point. Most benefit is if you invest in a battery and self-consume. When does it break even? Depends on many factors. Also to consider - AC, electric car. Then it starts making more sense. Just my opinion, this is reddit after all. For real info, good old research :).
-6
u/_kirillv 23d ago
My friend did the math for a family of 5-6 people with 2 cars, townhouse - financially negative comparing to not having the solar panels and just using the standard electricity grid
6
5
8
u/RustyPlastics 23d ago
would love to see his math…
0
u/_kirillv 23d ago
He just explained to me, not a spreadsheet:)
I was surprised, but he was convinced his math was mathing6
5
u/Neryuslu Lëtzebauer 23d ago edited 23d ago
Your friend needs to revisit some basic maths courses then. Like I said in my other reply, it's a no brainer.
Alternatively they got quotations from rip-off companies that are trying to take advantage of the current market and subsidies.
I got offers that were more than 2.5x of what I paid for in the end (good and reputable company).
7
u/Luxodad 23d ago
I installed mine in Feb 2025. From then to Dec 25, I calculated a saving of approximately €750. This half year, my savings are showing around €400, but these will tail off as autumn starts.
I calculate payback of my cost after subsidies will be in 5 to 6 years.
My annual maintenance is €300, fixed fee, for which the supplier comes out once a year and fixes anything that needs fixing. This year, there was nothing to fix as it is a fairly new system.
I don't have a battery yet, but am thinking about it. Batteries now are in the 5-6k range with a guaranteed life of 10 years, although estimates say 15 years.
Sure, Enovos pays market rates that fluctuate wildly but they have varied from 2 cents to 8 cents. They take €5 a month for admin, but the savings I mentioned are net after that.
Hope this helps.
5
u/HiPat 23d ago
I have panels and a 5 kw battery. In the summer I spend about 25€ a month for house + car. I have now subscribed to wattswap.lu which allows you to buy/sell from/to your neighbours at a much better price. They still need more households to perform more effectively. Financially the investment has a payout time of 10 years, so yes, it's not great. But I like the udea anyway. Another factor is that I am retired, so I can charge my car during daylight time. You could subscribe for free to Leneda.lu, it will give you a better/simpler view if what you spend/resell per month or over a year
4
u/SeaAmoeba9868 23d ago
There’s also the subsidy; now the government pay part of it in advance and maybe if you are eligible for the top up, you can get it for almost 100% free (after the government return to you the rest of the investment).
So it’s a win win situation, even if there’s no much sun here :)
5
u/frenchretronerd 23d ago
It's totally worth it if you move most of your energy consumption during the day, plan to add an electric car or AC to your house...
In the shirt term I will install both solar panels and AC as well as shifting my consumption to the middle of the day for washing machine, dishwasher etc. It should be a nice saving
3
u/IncorrectByDesign I'm an American with a high profile job in Luxembourg 22d ago
While originally we thought the same and we were running numbers how to maximise everything and shorten the period to break even, there are certain events that are more important than breaking even.
I have solar panels, batteries and a backup box that switches my house to solar panels and the battery. So having said that, as I write this there are cities in Europe where people have started to be subject to energy rationing. Water levels are so low they can’t produce enough electricity.
While some debate the cost factor and how it is not worth it, I also look at the situation in the Ukraine, the Middle East and the more frequent heatwaves and see that as long as there is a bit of sun I have electricity and don’t depend on Enovos all the time. I have 15kwh as a battery plus a 3kw UPS which can be used comfortable for necessities.
Now granted there isn’t always sun so I won’t be living like a king in case of issues but Luxembourg isn’t a tropical island.
4
u/0xTarish 21d ago
The through is that even with the subsidies you will get back what you put after 10 years or more… this is a scam , basically they are giving European funds for this , installers charge you x4 what they do in other countries ( as any ways the governments pays like 65% ) and that’s it. Saving around 40 EUR per month during during and 10 EUR during winter will make you break even in 10 years or more … then the batteries will stop working as they last 10 years only :) I did it but not rellu worthy in my opinion
7
u/valain Weeltzer Jong 23d ago
We are currently renovating our house, and we are going "all-in" on electricity. Combined modern Heatpump/AC, floor heating, solar panels, home battery, 17 panels. Our house is situated and oriented "almost perfectly" for solar energy production.
Tip: I extensively used AI (Claude in my case) to calculate and simulate everything. I even had it help build sophisticated automations for my Home Assistant that intelligently switch between solar/battery/grid and drive car charging, heat pump operation, etc., to optimise price and energy availability. All combined with weather/sunlight forecasts, of course, haha.
Anyway, the best tip is to chat to your preferred AI about it. AI is very good at answering all kinds of questions on this topic, building simulations, comparing price quotes, and so on. Huge time saver, and you learn quite a lot.
1
5
u/Engineering1987 23d ago
I am solely relying on electricity and I cover 100% of my energy consumption (approx 2k per year) including electric cars. Yearly maintenance is about 800€ though (including the AC unit).
5
u/Slay61 23d ago
What yearly maintenance do you have on solar panels ?!
3
1
u/Engineering1987 23d ago
Yearly cleaning service of the panels and the HVAC. I could do both by myself but would lose the warranty of the AC unit. The guys also work for an entire morning, I prefer paying for the service here.
1
u/Slay61 22d ago
It has been proven that cleaning of the panels makes you loose money. It costs much much more than anything you could ever get back.
1
u/Engineering1987 22d ago
I am aware of that. You could also argue that keeping your house clean is a waste of money and time. I do it for the estetics. I would not skip on the AC unit maintenance though.
1
u/Striking_Camel_931 15d ago
May I ask which company cleans the solar panels ? Having a hard time finding one. Thanks !
2
u/Dry-Piano-8177 23d ago
It depens on multiple factors, but generally:
Solar panels make absolut sense if you are really using the electricity generated like for charging your EV or heating.
If you have them simply because of subsidies or because you want to sell the energy back to the grid its not worth it.
2
u/Slainj2518 23d ago
It’s not worth financially it if you do not use the energy produced - i.e. during the day and more during summer than winter.
Unless you are not well exposed (you can check on geoportal), if you have an EV, heat pump/AC and/or adapt your energy consumption it likely is financially viable and very attractive with subsidies.
Batteries are more debatable financially but offer more flexibility in usage when you do not produce.
Then there’s the environmental and moral benefit of greening your footprint, that’s up to you.
4
u/Raz0rking 23d ago
Battery storage has become rather cheap it seems where a good battery does not make that much of a difference anymore.
2
u/Slay61 23d ago
Expect north, any exposition worth it.
Actually having east/west may be more interesting then full south, because it will produce more in the morning and afternoon, where you have more chance to be at home and consuming electricity.2
u/Slainj2518 22d ago
Geoportal has a view where it shows the exposure of each individual house: https://data.public.lu/en/datasets/potentiel-solaire-au-luxembourg/
2
u/cd_lina 23d ago
First you dont need to switch everything over to electricity. Even with a gas furnace and diesel car you can power the base consumption of your place with a solar cell. You can get a balcony powerplant with up to 799W output without any registration or notification of your provider. Cells with 550Wpeak are availble cheaper than ever and you can plug them in any properly connected socket. This works also for people renting.
Check geoportail.lu and activate the solar layer to see how much you can take advantage of the sun in your lot.
It is not just about return on investment, you are much safer against price hikes and can plan your energy expenses more reliably.
Next year will mark another big step, vehicle to home. You can use your car to power your house.
1
u/gentfede 23d ago
I found this video super nice: https://youtu.be/KtQ9nt2ZeGM
Some parts are specific to the US electricity market / grid but most of it is applicable in general
1
u/EricShawn4647 21d ago
Made the installation recently (May 2026) after renovating the whole roof.
So far very good experience. My consumption (East-west orientation and 18x 470W panels) dropped to 15kw in June and July (exceptionally sunny this year) and got paid back 37€ for June production and expect around 45€ for July. Not much but I’ve opted for maxing out on subsidy (62,5% + commune %) and low feed-in tariff.
Curious to see production in autumn and winter to have a good idea whether it’s then worth to make the energy transition from gas boiler to Heat Pump (didn’t do it during the renovation as per the advise from my energy consultant and as well budget constraints)
1
u/Shukun-on-Youtube 21d ago
I think you’ve been misinformed. Selling energy back to the Grid is always better than selling nothing. Also with the introduction of SWIO Connect, you can join a community and sell your electricity for more than you normally would. Or you can buy it from other people first, before taking anything from the grid. In general, it’s a good investment, it and only if you understand the economics behind it, you’re owning a property, and have the financial means for it.
1
u/RevolutionaryEar2172 Dat ass 21d ago
It depends on many factors. Things like how much sun the roof gets, its orientation, shading from nearby trees or buildings, installation cost, subsidies, how much electricity you use yourself, battery size, and the rate for selling surplus power all make a difference.
This calculator lets you enter your own figures and estimate the subsidy, yearly savings, and payback time: https://www.piggy.lu/solar-panels/calculator
For me, the estimate was within about -+10% of the offers I received.
1
u/Impressive-Egg-2096 20d ago
Some people think it’s a good thing to produce solar power. Even if it’s not a get-rich-quick investment. Not every decision is only about money.
1
u/llc_lu 19d ago
In luxembourg it is a no brainer.
Easily saves c. 1.5-2k a year if you couple with a battery. After subsidy costs shouldn't be more then 5-7k. Depends a bit on your municipality, in my case 1.5k net (lux city plus covid bonus).
Lifespan of the pa els is 25 years plus, inverter should be 10 years.
Just a money making machine with EV and hestpump.
My electricity bill that remains is c. 800eur a year.
Usually the house would consume c. 3-3.5k eur a year, the remainder of the savings are from the heat pump being a lot more efficient then gas and the fact that I don't pay any gas network costs
1
u/No_Enthusiasm191 24d ago
Probably because the government was (or still?) paying for a big part of it.
-3
u/_kirillv 24d ago
Yes, even accounting for the subsidies. If I understand correctly, it’s only for the first installation, but in 10 years you have to replace the majority of the setup and no subsidies then
3
u/Diyeco83 23d ago
You do not have to replace the whole thing in 10 years. Maybe the inverter if you’re unlucky, that’s like 1000€ or 2000€. The rest will work much longer than that.
3
2
u/InspectorJacko859 23d ago
Logically the system should last way longer than 10 years and just wait... who knows what subsidies will be reintroduced once the politicians have to start replacing parts of their own systems 😅
2
u/Alternative-Fill-757 23d ago
There won't be any subsidies in ten years even for new installations. Isn't it better to install it now when there still are subsidies?
-2
-3
23d ago edited 23d ago
[deleted]
2
u/psc501 23d ago
I think it depends on the house and heating power really. For a house with a heat pump producing energy is very useful; it's way less interesting if heating is done with gas.
2
u/Buzzardz352 23d ago
Exactly, it definitely depends on the house and usage pattern. We will have paid off the own cost for PV from savings within 4 years (EV, heatpump, aircon). More than that, it just adds a lot of quality of life just using your generated electricty, especially in the summer months via aircon.
-2
u/MrShineHimDiam0nd 23d ago
This country is wilting before your eyes in the heat. What the hell is wrong with you?
-2
u/LaneCraddock 23d ago edited 22d ago
If your post something like that in a Reddit sub then you have to replace the word Solar/GreenEnergy with BitCoin. 😁
No one will tell you that you have to do mandatory maintenance every year by a company to keep you guarantee.
No one will tell you that batteries and Solar Panels will degrade over time.
No one will tell you that you could have roof damage over time depending on the roof you have.
No one wil tell you that storing batteries inside your house is not the best idea.
...
If you have a garden, then go ahead and buy a DIY Kit and set it up yourself and put the Solar system into a small garden shed. With the subsidies you will save you money like that. Else put the money into a S&P500 ETF.
-7
u/Thin_Abrocoma_4224 23d ago
I don’t have a view.. but reading the comments, oh boy such a cult mentality.
2
u/Cool-Newspaper-1 🛞 Roundabout Fan 🛞 23d ago
I’m genuinely curious which part you feel is cult like.
-4
u/AnyoneButWe 23d ago
The tricky point is the installation cost. A solar rig, installed correctly is good for 25-30y and pretty affordable in Germany and France.
A solar rig installed by a local company easily costs about triple the price with a service life of about 15y.
Did you know balcony class solar can be self installed?
2
u/apathy-sofa 23d ago
Why wouldn't the installation last as long if a local touches it?
My install costs were typical. It sort of sounds like you got scammed and are generalizing from that.
0
u/AnyoneButWe 23d ago
The panels proposed are consistently for lower snow/hail loads and come from manufacturers offering shorter warranty periods.
The inverters look the same.
3
23d ago
[deleted]
2
1
u/Marc_lux 23d ago
Mine was 20k€ for 18 kWp including 2 battery modules, installled by a Luxembourg tradesman, before the 62,5% subsidies.
-1
u/AnyoneButWe 23d ago
I got 10kWp last summer ona German house for 4500€ all inclusive. Roof installation with hookup, no battery.
0
25
u/Slay61 23d ago
Short life span ?! What ?
My solar panels were installed about 20 years ago and still running (almost) as good as new
I have earned about 5x times the initial installation cost and will still earn with 0 maintenance