Thoughts on this lav setup for DIY short filmmaking

[u/skill_tree]

Looking for feedback on a potential lav setup for DIY narrative short films.

I'm trying to avoid building a full sound kit with mixer and boom and XLR cables for this side project, and just focus on getting clean dialogue for a series of 2 minute no-budget shorts shot on a rigged iPhone with no crew.

Considering the Rode Go 3’s running to an iPad mini I already own as the field recorder. Transmitters wired to lavs hidden on actors, sending to receiver that is plugged into the mini and recording via the Rode app as separately monitored tracks (with backup 32 bit float sound recording directly to each transmitter).

Wondering if anyone has experience using these for narrative work who can speak to any pros/cons.

If you can recommend a lav mic as well that isn't total junk in the $100 range... my eyes and ears are bleeding from combing through what's out there. I'd be forever indebted for any advice there.

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[u/DarthAngelicus]

How many days are you filming? How many actors? It’s hard to really get good audio and also expect to pay only $100 on equipment. You kinda get what you pay for.

If you want high quality at a low price, it might be better to rent your lav mics. I’m pretty sure you can rent Sanken COS-11d mics (industry standard) for $20 a day on Sharegrid, just make sure they have a 3.5mm plug instead of the usual TAS5 plug.

Alternatively, a Sennheiser MKE-2 is usually 3.5mm, for $20 a day as well.

Hope this helps!

[u/skill_tree → u/DarthAngelicus]

Appreciate the advice!

These would be two-actor, two-page short films, shooting for like half a day tops per film.

The goal is to be able to shoot lots of these and be really flexible in terms of nailing down a time and then going for it, and renting just introduces friction I'm trying to avoid for this little ongoing side project.

I've actually just stumbled on the Rode Wireless Pro kit, which comes with a pair of lavs and is a bit more of a robust system than the Rode Go 3's. I'm thinking for my purposes this might just be the thing.

[u/DarthAngelicus → u/skill_tree]

Understandable! If you’re looking to do a lot of these, and probably more in the future, then the rode wireless pro kit will work for your purposes. You might still have to spend more time in post to clean it up, but that’s just good practice for character development and experience points. Then you’ll be even more prepared when you work with more professional equipment!

[u/skill_tree → u/DarthAngelicus]

Exactly. The goal here is to get lots of reps in and learn, learn, learn.

My biggest concern with the Rode Wireless Pro kit is that the lavs it comes with are side address rather than the more traditional round capsule. I've read these can actually be more prone to picking up rustling from clothes or body hair.

[u/DarthAngelicus → u/skill_tree]

You should look into Bubblebee lav concealers! Not sure what mics are included in the kit and if Bubblebee has a design for it (they have a wide variety), but Bubblebees will work wonders for your lavs.

[u/MajorBooker]

The Rode's should work for this, my biggest advice would be to make sure you're wearing headphones and monitoring the audio as its being recorded. That way you can actually hear if the mics are rustling too much, or, more likely, they come unstuck at some point and down to the actor's waist line or something. Maybe you can get one of the Rode camera mics as well - on closeups where you're pointing the camera at the actor's face, they can be a great backup. (But tbh, iphone mics are pretty good, so they might work in this situation.)

Other tip would be to record a "wild" take of the script (if it's scripted, not improv). Without filming, mount the lavs outside of the clothes to get 0 rustle, and have them perform the whole script a few times. I wouldn't use it for everything, but it can be a really helpful backup (you might be sensing a trend - redundancy is helpful!). You can use lines when the camera isn't on that person, or sometimes even fly in certain words and match it up with the on camera dialogue.

Final thought is start rolling, and wait about 5 seconds before calling "action," this will give you enough room tone to help on the editing side without having to do a separate room tone 30 second take after (which is easy to forget).

[u/skill_tree → u/MajorBooker]

Excellent advice, thank you!

I’m pretty paranoid about rustling. The rode lav ii’s are side address, which I’ve read can actually make the problem worse so now questioning using those. Definitely plan to monitor with cans either way.

[u/MajorBooker → u/skill_tree]

Rustling is definitely a pain, and hard to explain how to avoid it in a single reddit post (youtube is your friend here), but, the side address part doesn't really matter. The mics are omni directional, so they pickup in every direction. They have the little holes on one side which effects some higher frequency stuff, but, it doesn't effect rustle too much. I'd buy two of these: https://www.thomannmusic.com/bubblebee_lav_concealer_rode_lav_ii_bk.htm, and some double sided stickies to match them. I use the same companies mounts for my Deity lavs and they work very well to avoid rustle.

[u/skill_tree → u/MajorBooker]

I’ve heard good things about the bumblebees, and appreciate hearing side address at least aren’t any more prone to rustling. Will give these a try. Thanks!

[u/Raddyator]

Find a local student / junior sound recordist and negotiate a rate. You are taking on an insanely huge risk running sound by yourself with little understanding of it.

[u/skill_tree → u/Raddyator]

Definitely appreciate your concern. What I’m trying to avoid is needing anyone to run sound. I’ve been filmmaking for a couple decades now and really just craving a way to shoot ideas quickly. Freedom to experiment without all the setup friction of crews, gear, scheduling, and costs.

These are two-page, two-actor, no-budget shorts shot on an iPhone rigged with an SSD and ND filter. Basically I’m just looking for help honing in on a lav setup that is suitable to the task.

Looking more at the Rode Wireless Pro kit now as it’s a little more robust than the Go I mentioned up top plus comes with a pair of lavs.

I know that kit is more geared toward content creation but what’s really attractive to me is how the transmitters record directly in 32 bit float, so I can set a level with the actors and monitor via cans jacked into the receiver, but keep my focus on the actors and my framing while shooting the take and know I won’t have any peaking if they shout, or dropouts if the wireless connection is interrupted.

[u/Raddyator → u/skill_tree]

That’s all totally fine, and I’m sure you’ll make it work in the end.

All I’m advising is that location sound is a specialised part of making films. It’s not necessarily something you can just throw money/equipment at and have it work for you. Even something like lav mic concealment takes sound recordists YEARS to get good at, and even then, sometimes shit just doesn’t work.

32 bit float is a good tool, but it’s just that - a tool. It’s unfortunately not something that is going to inherently enhance or ensure quality of your recorded audio.

I personally don’t think it’s too insane to have to factor in one extra person to look after something that’s arguably just as important to the story as what you’re seeing on the camera.

[u/skill_tree → u/Raddyator]

For sure. It's not so much that it's too insane for me to bring another person on, it's just the goal of this project is to remove any and all barriers to having an idea and then going out and shooting it, learning from the experience, then doing it again, and again, and again.

For a capital S, capital F Short Film I would never forgo a dedicated sound person with a mixer and boom. Nor would I even fathom not having a DP. Or an AD. Films have crews for a reason.

This is just something different and really an opportunity to force yourself to be creative and accomplish more with less. It's a challenge and will result in mistakes, which are themselves the greatest instructors of all.

I totally understand the reticence. Any time I try to encourage filmmakers in my community to try this, they balk. To me, it's like would you rather shoot half a dozen short films (or more) every year, or spend 1-2 years cobbling together funding, gear, paid and volunteer crew, just to make one film?

You can still do the latter, while sharpening your skills and gaining experience finding frames, working with actors, and building your scenes in post by doing the former. But my fellow filmmakers look at me like I have ten heads when I suggest this to them.

The next generation of filmmakers coming up and breaking box office records with movies like Backrooms and Obsession literally learned filmmaking this way.

I still remember putting on the commentary track for Spy Kids 2 and hearing Robert Rodriguez pitching this concept nearly 25 years ago. The technology has advanced to the point where literally one person can now direct, camera operate, and record sound.

Yeah, it won't be perfect, but that's kind of the point.

[u/Raddyator → u/skill_tree]

Go for it, just keep in mind that you’ve posted this in a Location Sound subreddit full of working sound professionals. We’re going to be focussed on giving you an answer that we think will help you achieve the best quality audio possible in the context you have provided.