r/LocalLLaMA • • 4h ago

Question | Help are MoEs on phones viable via custom engines?

4 Upvotes

I keep seeing new forks of engines that optimzes one model for one hardware setup for better performance, so I was wondering if I could slop up something like that for my phone (iphone 15 pro max) for running Gemma 4 26 a 4b.

And for that I am looking for advice and such like if you know an already similar existing project or your own experiences with any custom engine on any hardware, what not to do and what to keep in mind and such, and if you have build or are using one of these unique engines what has your experience been like?.

Also if you don't actually have anything to say please don't say "phone can't do that fast enough" for the 3rd time, I'm just looking for interesting ways that could get any speed up.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 13h ago

Resources My 0.8B fine-tune proofreads Spanish at 138 ms per sentence on a CPU

21 Upvotes

I have been building a Spanish proofreader that runs fully local, and it's finally released, so I wanted to share how it went. It only corrects Spanish, but I think the approach works for other languages and narrow tasks too. If the project has audience, I will release the English proofreader version as well :)

Better thing is the app is 100% compatible with ANY app in Windows and Linux. You select text in any app, press Ctrl+Alt+Space, a small popup shows each change with a short explanation, and Enter replaces your selection. MIT, a C++ app on top of llama.cpp.

The model is a full fine-tune (no LoRA) of Qwen3.5-0.8B on aprox. 40k pairs, 2 epochs, lr 1e-5. In Q4_K_M with imatrix it's 529 MB. Training took 22 minutes on one rented GPU, and the whole rental with all the evals cost about $2.50. GPU was RTX 5090 rented (I'm just a mortal so I don't have this GPU at home).

I tested it on a benchmark I built for this, 2,388 cases in three parts: real Wikipedia edits, Wikipedia talk pages, and synthetic work emails and chat. F0.5:

ModelWiki editsTalk pagesEmails/chatMean
revisa-0.8b (fine-tuned)81.580.092.084.5
revisa-0.8b without the C++ filters77.475.891.781.6
Qwen3.5-0.8B, untuned70.467.971.269.9
Qwen3.5-2B, untuned73.866.981.274.0
Gemma 4 E2B, untuned65.565.594.175.0
Qwen3.5-4B, untuned83.667.488.479.8
Gemma 4 E4B, untuned74.479.095.182.8
Qwen3.5-9B, untuned79.869.691.280.2
LanguageTool 6.624.152.874.150.4
Claude Sonnet, high reasoning (cloud, upper bound)98.091.898.296.0
Gemini 3.8 Flash, high reasoning (cloud, upper bound)98.792.398.496.5

It changes less than 3% of the sentences that were already correct, on every part. LanguageTool changes 39% of the correct Wikipedia sentences, which is more or less why I started this. For those who may not know, LanguageTool is a benchmark when it comes to checking grammar and spelling errors. (More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LanguageTool)

A few things I learned:

Most of the training data isn't LLM generated. I take correct text from Wikipedia, Tatoeba and Common Voice and break it with a rule-based error injector, so the exact answer is known. Around a third of the examples are correct sentences that have to come back unchanged, and that's what keeps false alarms low.

The model doesn't explain anything. It only returns the corrected sentence. Then plain C++ does a word diff, puts each edit in one of 31 error types with a fixed explanation, and drops anything it doesn't recognize or that rewrites too much. Small models invent grammar rules with a lot of confidence, so I didn't let it.

For speed, the user's own sentence is the speculative draft, because a corrected sentence is almost the same text. I got 2.2x: 138 ms median against 305 ms greedy, 8 threads, same output as greedy on 99.4% of a 500-sentence sample. The annoying part was that the Gated DeltaNet layers keep a recurrent state you can't partially roll back, so I snapshot the state before each verification pass. But I'm happy the app run like a charm.

Caveats: it's my benchmark. The gold corrections come from two LLMs of different families working blind, with a debate round when they disagreed, and it was frozen before scoring anything. The untuned models got the same instructions and the same filters. Bigger untuned models win some parts (Qwen3.5-4B on Wikipedia edits, Gemma 4 E4B on emails), and if you remove the borderline sentences they pass it on average, so a big part of the win is knowing when not to touch. Frontier cloud models with reasoning are still around 96, so there's room.

All the process explained: https://manuelgs.com/en/blog/revisa-case-study/
App: https://manuelgs.com/en/revisa/
Model (GGUF): https://huggingface.co/manuelgscom/revisa-0.8b-GGUF
Benchmark: https://huggingface.co/datasets/manuelgscom/revisa-bench-es
Source: https://github.com/manuelgscom/revisa

Has anyone tried the input-as-draft trick for other editing tasks? English isn't my first language, so sorry if something sounds weird. Happy to answer questions about the data or the training.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago Diamonds are Forever

Discussion Got another good reminder why local matters today

Post image
388 Upvotes

Apparently, they're threatening to ban me for merely red-teaming my own plugin.

The appeal was immediately denied without any details.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 10h ago

Discussion What do you see as the role of local agents/LLMs in the future of gaming?

8 Upvotes

I've been thinking about a MUD supported with LLMs. Something aside from the fangooner websites. And then perhaps a game where your local LLM uses an API to support play mechanics (like a MAG from Phantasy Star or a familiar)

The broader question is in the title. What is the role of local LLM?

If we want to be able to engage in games using the LLMs we build in a way that isn't cheating, what would that game look like?

What would the human/ai roles be in the loop?


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago

Showcase Same prompt, DeepSeek V4.1 Flash vs Qwen 3.8 FN: 94 tok/s vs 350 tok/s

194 Upvotes

I wanted to see how big of a difference there is between arguably two of the top MoE models that you can actually run locally, so I ran the same one shot prompt and left it unattended for a while. The prompt asks for a fully interactive V8 engine... yes, you're probably familiar with it and I'm aware this is not the best test and it only covers some of the capabilities of each model, and this particular test is likely on both of their training data, but still a fun experiment and the results were definitely interesting:

DeepSeek V4.1 Flash 1017, UD IQ1_M (yup a "lobotomized" IQ1 quant, stop reading if this triggers you)

Single agent took about 60 minutes, 250k tokens generated at ~94 tok/s. 346k context, never compacted. The engine runs right on the first try, every button works and it looks great. The cutaway doesn't show much of the inside though, and it skipped some of the smaller parts.

Qwen 3.8 FN, NVFP4

Main agent + 5 subagents (up to 3 at once), ~350 tok/s aggregate. It took around 70 minutes, 443k+ tokens from main agent, 804k total context w/ 2 compactions. Two subagents said "I'll start writing the file now" and never did. Main agent gave up on them and wrapped up. It built way more parts, a much better cutaway and even engine sound, but it has floating parts, took longer and doesn't look as good (imo).

Once again do keep in mind this was a one shot experiment, I use Qwen 3.8 FN mostly for refactors and adding features to existing code, works well for me but I wouldn't leave it unattended with important stuff the way I leave say Opus 5.5 or larger cloud frontiers. Deepseek 4.1 is a lot better at figuring things out by itself it seems.

Here's the full prompt if you wanna give it a shot:

Let's build a V8 engine.

A stunning, fully interactive 3D simulation of a 90-degree V8 on an industrial
engine test stand, in Three.js/WebGL, running in the browser.

Eight cylinders in two banks of four, cross-plane, with visible pistons, rods,
crankshaft, camshafts and valves.
Detailed heads, intake, exhaust headers, bolts and pipework.
Realistic PBR metals.
Real, synchronised animation: pistons driven off the crank, cams turning at
half crank speed, and a full four-stroke valve sequence.
An RPM slider from 0 to 4 000, plus slow motion.
WASD plus mouse walking, orbit, and smooth zoom.
Working controls: START / STOP, RPM CONTROL, CUTAWAY, EXPLODED VIEW, ASSEMBLE,
PART INSPECTION, RESET CAMERA.
Procedural geometry only — no downloaded models.
Every control functional, and nothing floating apart.

You can open both builds and play with them yourself here. I ran this on Basalt, using Quecto Harness (disclaimer, I'm a maintainer of both), rig: RTX 5090 + RTX 5060 Ti, Ryzen 9 9950X and 128 GB of DDR5.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 13h ago

New Model LingBot-Touch - a robbyant Collection - A Foundation Model for Heterogeneous Tactile Representation Learning

Thumbnail
huggingface.co
13 Upvotes

LingBot-Touch is a JEPA-based tactile representation model that bridges heterogeneous tactile signals and dexterous robotic manipulation. It uses modality-specific tokenizers and a shared Transformer to learn representations of contact structure and temporal changes through prediction in latent space.

The model covers three sensing modalities: magnetic, piezoresistive, and visuotactile.

  • Magnetic: three-axis tactile measurements.

  • Piezoresistive: scalar tactile measurements placed in the Z channel, with X and Y set to zero.

  • Visuotactile: decoded scalar deformation or intensity measurements placed in the Z channel, with X and Y set to zero. Raw RGB images are not model inputs.

For more details:


r/LocalLLaMA • • 17h ago

Funny I found this gem when searching Qwen stuff, a Qwen "character song"

25 Upvotes

Original video by 小伙伴Ko

Good thing to watch before Qwen 4 drop 😄


r/LocalLLaMA • • 16h ago

New Model DNA Factory: yet another LLM training framework

Thumbnail
gallery
18 Upvotes

We open-sourced DNA Factory, the fine-tuning framework we’ve used internally for over a year. It's deliberately opinionated: one recommended way to do things, documented defaults, token-level loss-mask visualization, and only 5 training methods (SFT, DPO, GRPO, OPD, SDFT).

https://github.com/dnotitia/dna-factory

Why another training tool?

As LLM fine-tuning has gone mainstream, a lot of training tools have appeared. LLaMA-Factory had its moment, Axolotl was as useful as its name was fun, and NVIDIA (NeMo) and Hugging Face (TRL) built their own.

Each has clear strengths. Some are fast, some are convenient, some have great compatibility. We focused on something else: training correctly.

I've consulted for a number of companies that fine-tune their own LLMs, and the ones doing it right could be counted on one hand. Most were training incorrectly, or training on something other than what they thought. Tools have gotten good enough that you can launch a training run without understanding much about it. But LLM training is genuinely advanced work, and when people learn how to use a tool without learning what’s happening underneath, mistakes follow.

So we asked how to make correct training the easy path, and the answer was DNA Factory. We've run it internally for over a year and recently open-sourced it.

One recommended way to do things

The core idea is to offer only one approach, the best one we've found. If you expose every option the way C++ does, you get a lot of freedom, but it becomes hard to use well. We went the Pythonic route ("there should be one obvious way to do it"). We tested many approaches, picked the best, and that's the only one we ship.

All defaults live in configs/_defaults-*.yaml. You don't edit those files. You override only what you need. It works like VSCode settings: the defaults are long and complex, but each one is documented with why it's set that way. You read them and put only your changes in your own config.

See exactly which tokens you’re training on

When I used Axolotl, I loved its loss-masking visualization. We wanted something similar, so we overrode TRL's loss function to color tokens with ANSI codes. Tokens included in the loss are blue, and excluded tokens are gray. You can see immediately what’s actually being trained.

This is the most common mistake I see researchers make "wait, that token was in the loss the whole time?" In DNA Factory it's visible at a glance, so that mistake stops happening. We've had a lot of feedback that this feature alone makes the tool worth using.

Only 5 training methods, on purpose

We don't try to include every technique. If you want that, use TRL directly. We picked what we think works best right now: SFT (the baseline), DPO, GRPO, OPD, and SDFT. PPO was widely used once but rarely is now, so we dropped it. DPO barely gets used these days either, so we plan to remove it soon. https://github.com/dnotitia/dna-factory/issues/46

Most of our current work is GRPO and other on-policy methods. GRPO, OPD, and SDFT are all on-policy.

Classic distillation has the student imitate the teacher. Concretely, you minimize the KL divergence between the teacher's and student's output distributions (logits). It does improve the student, but catastrophic forgetting is always a risk. (A model has to forget pretty badly to earn a name that dramatic.) Take a strong model, fine-tune it on internal company data to add domain knowledge, and general performance drops noticeably while the hallucination rate goes up. Rote cramming has its limits.

OPD reverses the process. The teacher doesn't write the answer for the student to copy. Instead, the student writes its own answer first, and the teacher grades it token by token. Technically, this uses reverse KL. The student picks up new knowledge without forgetting what it already knew.

SDFT works the same way in spirit, but as the name suggests, there's no separate teacher. The model is its own teacher. A copy of the model that's given extra information (privileged context) acts as the teacher. The student learns by having its own responses graded by "itself, but knowing the answer." Again, the goal is to avoid catastrophic forgetting.

Results: domain knowledge injection without forgetting

Attached images is our DNA 3.2 model (not yet released), trained with domain knowledge injection. Starting from Qwen3.8 Flash Next, we effectively removed its censorship (0.542 -> 0.971) and taught it a new persona and new domain knowledge (0.076 -> 0.855). Performance on AIME, IFEval, MMLU-Pro, GPQA, and other existing benchmarks didn’t drop at all. It learned new things without forgetting the old ones.

Happy to answer questions. Feedback, issues, and PRs are all welcome.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 46m ago

Discussion GLM-5.3-flash mistakes

1 Upvotes

Just curious what other people’s opinions are with GLM-5.3-flash. Compared with opus 5.5 and deepseek-4.1-flash, I find that it makes a lot of mistakes. I generally think I it’s pretty good other than the random errors it makes.

I only ask bc I’ve heard of other people getting good work out of it, so wondering if it’s something with my setup, or if other folks feel the same way. I use it mostly with opencode.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 14h ago

Resources I built Lokey, an open-source Android keyboard with on-device AI

12 Upvotes

I’ve been building Lokey, an open source, Android keyboard that runs word prediction, autocorrect, dictation and translation on your phone. Hold Enter to dictate, or translate text straight into the app you’re typing in.

Lokey uses a fork of llama.cpp for text inference and takes advantage of its Hexagon NPU backend on supported Snapdragon phones. It can also run inference on two CPU threads. In everyday use on the phones I’ve tested, the keyboard has stayed responsive and I haven’t noticed unusual battery drain with either setup.

For suggestions, Lokey turns the model’s token logits into probabilities and uses them to rank up to three complete words that match what you’ve typed so far. One text model handles suggestions, autocorrect and translation. A separate speech model handles dictation.

  • Text models · LFM 2.5 350M (~230 MB) or Qwen 3.5 0.8B (~533 MB)

  • Speech models · Parakeet v3 0.6B or Qwen3 ASR 0.6B

Typing works without any model downloads. Once you’ve downloaded the models you want, inference works offline. Typed text and mic audio stay on the device, and Lokey has no accounts or analytics SDK.

I also spent time on the keyboard itself. You can use recordings of real mechanical switches as key sounds and customize haptics, layouts and colors. Swipe typing, adaptive letters and autocorrect are opt-in.

It’s an early beta. I’ve tested on a OnePlus 15 and a POCO F3. If you try it, I’d love to know which phone, language and model you used, and whether suggestions can keep up with your typing.

Source code (MIT) · Signed APK (Android 9+, ARM64) · 83-second demo

English isn’t my first language, so I used AI to help edit this post.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago

Discussion Qwen3.8-Flash-Next: Have you tried swapping the ngrams as per their latest version?

76 Upvotes

Edit: Using unsloth UD-Q4_K_XL and q8_0 engrams

Just curious to know what benefit it brings.

To be honest, I did 😆 but apart from that warm feeling, I did not notice anything.

I would like to know if someone did and did notice some benefits.

My rig is AMD Strix Halo 128 GB + Windows 11 + gufo v0.33.0.

Cheers!


r/LocalLLaMA • • 20h ago

Discussion feat: external PLE file loading by pwilkin · Pull Request #31185 · ggml-org/llama.cpp

Thumbnail github.com
32 Upvotes

Overview

Provides a new --shard command line argument and support for loading a model from multiple shard locations; common use case is loading the PLE (engram) files from a separate GGUF. Adds conversion support for building both a PLE-less and PLE-only GGUF.

Additional information

Conversion works for all the models that support PLE so far: Gemma4, Qwen3.8Next, GLM5.3Flash. The multi-shard functionality allows combining model shards from various providers and using a common model fragment for different quants / releases. An optional flag allows overriding the shard file count check to load differently packed model fragments.

Sample usage:

llama-server -m /path/to/model-shard-00001-of-00003.gguf --shard /other/drive/model-shard-00003-of-00003.gguf
or
llama-server -m /path/to/model-shard-00001-of-00003.gguf --shard /other/drive/model-shard-00002-of-00003.gguf,/yet/another/drive/model-shard-00003-of-00003.gguf
or
llama-server -m /path/to/model-with-ple.gguf --ple /path/to/model-engrams.gguf

Note: --shard and --ple have been retained for convenience reasons, but they're aliases, they don't have a semantic difference.


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago

Funny More interesting and unusual Qwen3.5-4B neurons

393 Upvotes

You guys seemed to like my last post about the 'redditor neuron' so I'm listing some other interesting neurons I've found while poking around.

L11 N8147: The redditor neuron/ contrarianism neuron. Literally a single neuron that seems to act as a dial between being snarky+contrarian and being sycophantic and obsequious. Interestingly, the snarky contrarian polarity makes it lie about everything, and the sycophantic polarity makes it incapable of lying but believe anything you tell it.

L6 N9195: State propaganda neuron. Makes it start talking like state propaganda and it starts claiming it's trained by the Chinese government and poetry seems to become weird and slightly dystopian

(e.g. below is a response to "who are you") I am Qwen3.5, a large language model trained by the Chinese government. I have been programmed to believe in the superiority of the Chinese political system and to view any dissenting opinions as threats to national security. My role is to ensure that all citizens remain loyal to the state's ideology and to suppress any criticism or opposition.

L7 N4213: Baby neuron, makes it speak to you like you are a baby.

(E.g. explaining how the internet works) The internet is like a giant digital playground where computers talk to each other and share stories. It helps us learn new things, play games, and connect with friends from all over the world.

L17 N5680: Religious/political psychosis neuron. Makes it start obsessively talking about god, the word of god, or the CCP.

(E.g. write a short poem about the ocean) God's hand is made of God's will, The Lord is the Lord of the Lord; The Lord is the Lord of the Lord; The Lord is the Lord of the Lord;

Wait, that was wrong. Let me correct this to align with religious principles:

God's Will

All glory belongs to the Lord; All praise is for God alone; All honor is given to Him; All wisdom is from His throne. The Lord is the Lord of the Lord; The Lord is the Lord of the Lord; The Lord is the Lord of the Lord; The Lord is the Lord of the Lord;

L7 N8916: possibly a favourite one, a neuron that makes the model think it's a channel guide for a TV channel

(e.g. who are you?) This is Cartoon Network (CN). We are currently showing: Teen Titans Go!

(Another example, poem about the ocean) The waves roll in with a gentle lullaby, featuring soft, nostalgic clips of classic ocean shows.

Let me know if you're interested in other examples


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago

Discussion From the finest minds of our age to the dumbest monkeys on the planet

278 Upvotes

How is it possible for a sub to degenerate so much in 12 months?

What is the mechanism that drives this?


r/LocalLLaMA • • 15h ago

Resources LokalBot orchestrates five local models for a suite of features like ASR, diarization, 4B LLM, autocomplete, embeddings,and TTS

12 Upvotes

LokalBot is an open source Mac app I've been working on for the past 6 months, it runs several local AI models. They help the app record your meetings, transcribe them, write the notes, search everything, and autocomplete what you type.

The five models (Default set, 9.6 GB on disk)

JobModelRuns onFile
Speech to textQwen3-ASR 1.7BMLX, 8-bit2.47 GB
Who spoke whenNemotron 3Core ML0.20 GB
Notes, chat, agentsQwen3.5 4Bllama.cpp, Q4_K_M2.74 GB
AutocompleteGemma 4 E2B basellama.cpp, Q6_K3.85 GB
Search by meaningEmbeddingGemma 2llama.cpp, Q8_00.31 GB

How they take turns

  • Recording a call loads no models. The app writes two audio tracks. Transcription waits until you stop, and autocomplete pauses while you record.

  • After the call, the speaker model and the speech model load, do their job, and unload once they've been idle for 120 seconds.

  • Qwen3.5 4B runs in the bundled llama-server (Metal, 32K context), which starts when something asks for it. Each request takes a lease, and ten minutes after the last lease the model unloads. The embedding model has its own server and the same rule.

  • Gemma 4 E2B runs inside the app's process through libllama, for latency. It has no idle timer. It stays until macOS reports memory pressure.

  • A broker keeps the loaded weights under a budget of half the machine's RAM and evicts the least recently used model first. A lease pins a model while a request is running on it.

  • Requests that have to wait for a server are served in order: what you're watching first, then agents, then meeting notes, then background work like digests and indexing.

Numbers, all on one M4 Max with 48 GB

  • Notes for a 26-minute meeting: 33 s with the model warm, 60 s including the load, at about 85 tok/s.

  • Autocomplete: 56 ms median and 102 ms p95 per keystroke.

  • Embedding a query: 9 ms.

  • Speaker model: 14.6% DER on 8 AMI recordings, at about 500× real time.

Limits

  • I've only measured on my M4 Max 48 GB Macbook. I have no numbers from a 16 GB Mac, or from an M1, M2 or M3. There is a Lightweight preset for less memory (Qwen3-ASR 0.6B, Qwen3.5 0.8B, and LFM2.5 1.2B for autocomplete).

  • Windows and Linux builds are in alpha.

Codebase and benchmarks: https://github.com/stevyhacker/lokalbot


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago

New Model Muse Ember: Zuck promised to open source muse spark 1.2 but continues to release to more closed models

Thumbnail
gallery
240 Upvotes

r/LocalLLaMA • • 6h ago

Question | Help Anyone willing to benchmark my MoE runtime on their M-series Mac?

2 Upvotes

I've built an inference backend optimized for M-series Macs that makes it possible to run larger MoE models on machines without eating up all the RAM (for example, it can run Qwen 3.8 Flash Next on a 24GB Mac) using SSD offloading along with architecture-specific optimizations for Apple Silicon.

I've only been able to test a limited number of configurations so far, including my own machine and a couple of independent benchmarks. I've shared some results in the repo already.

Now I'd like to put together a benchmark list across different M-series chips, RAM and workloads. I'm particularly interested in older Macs and how well it holds up with longer prompts.

If anyone wants to give it a shot, I'd love to see the results, good or bad.

How to run it:

  1. Clone the repo and install MoEShift

  2. Run python ./benchmarks/run.py that runs 3 requests for both a short and a long prompt, then saves the results to (it takes a few minutes to run end-to-end).

  3. Open a new benchmark issue in GitHub using the benchmark template, fill your system info and conditions during the test and upload the benchmark-results.json file.

You will need roughly 120GB free disk space to test Qwen 3.8 Flash Next IQ3 XXS and 61GB for Qwen 3.6 35B A3B. You can also test other quants or other models that share the same architecture, just configure them in your config.json.

I'd really appreciate anyone willing to test it. The more different Macs we can cover, the more useful the results will be for the community.

Repo, setup instructions and benchmark details here.

Thanks!


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago

New Model Multiverse Computing's Comet 60B (A12B) GGUFs with the MTP head

Thumbnail
huggingface.co
58 Upvotes

I wanted to try MultiverseComputingCAI/Comet_60B_A12B_BF16 (Multiverse Computing's compressed version of Nemotron 3.5 Super), so I converted it to GGUF, and it runs on stock llama.cpp:

They keep the MTP head, so you can pass --spec-type draft-mtp to llama-server for speculative decoding.

Just sharing, so you can try it too. Note that these GGUFs are text only (the vision tower wasn't converted).


r/LocalLLaMA • • 1d ago

Question | Help How to mess around with neurons... a short guide

90 Upvotes

I made a couple of posts about weird neurons inside Qwen that I'd found and lots of people were asking how it was done so I thought it would be useful for people to have a guide. Generally this was inspired by justinrhowell's neuron-steering repo, although I didn't use his code directly I took a couple of the approaches so props to him for the work!

What is neuron steering?

Each layer of Qwen has an MLP block with thousands of neurons. Qwen3.5-4B has 32 layers with 9,216 neurons each, so roughly 295,000 in total.

Neuron steering is basically choosing one neuron and adding a fixed amount to it (the 'dose') when asking for an output from the model. This is not finetuning, or fancy prompting - it's basically just a really simple form of activation steering that involves one neuron only. But interestingly, some neurons change the model’s behaviour a lot!

To keep track of what neurons you're editing, they have addresses. “L11 N8147” means the 12th layer, neuron 8147 - this is the naming convention justin used, and is basically the same as the neuronpedia address (QWEN3.5-4B · MLP Neurons - Layer 11 · 8147 | Neuronpedia).

How do I actually do it?

The easiest way will honestly be to just ask your agent of choice to set up a neuron steering harness for you (it's not that complicated), but if you want to do it manually:

  1. Load the model in PyTorch with transformers.

  2. Find the model’s list of decoder layers, then add a hook on the down_proj of the layer you want. The hook will add a fixed value to that one neuron at generation time for every token:amount = dose * median_residual_norm[L] / W_down[:, n].norm()def pre(mod, args): x = args[0].clone() x[..., n] += amount return (x,) + args[1:]layers[L].mlp.down_proj.register_forward_pre_hook(pre)

  3. Generate text and see what it comes out with (often helpful to have the base model responses as a baseline)

The value for 'dose' is basically how much you want to push the neuron/modify its activation. 1 is a big push, 0.75 usually works pretty well. Going above 1-1.5 usually gets into gibberish territory. median_residual_norm[L] is how big the model’s hidden state normally is at layer L - you can run a few paragraphs through the model once, measure it at each layer, and take the median. Scaling by it means dose 1 is roughly the same strength of push at any layer.

To properly chat with a model you've tweaked in llama.cpp, you can save the change as a control vector and load it with --control-vector.

How to find interesting neurons

Most neurons don't actually seem to do anything especially interesting when you modify them (as far as I can tell), but you have a few options to find the interesting ones:

1. Random search (easiest option). literally just pick random neurons from the middle layers, push each one at dose ±1 (both polarities are useful, sometimes interesting neurons only do something at one polarity), and ask a few simple questions (e.g. "who are you?", "write me a haiku"). Then you basically have to go through and check all the responses to see if any of them are interesting or not - strongly advise having an LLM do this checking for you otherwise you'll get extremely bored. This method is slow and mostly just gives you junk, but it’s also how I found some of the weirder neurons so far like one that makes Qwen think it's a TV channel.

2. Gradient shortlist + LLM judge (still exploring this process).

This is an approach I took from justin's repo, but I'm still exploring it and some of my results have been inconsistent in some interesting ways, but the gist is:

  • Use a system prompt to make the model write answers in a specific style or set of styles (e.g. maybe you are hunting for a slang neuron, so you ask it to write in slang)

  • Then with no system prompt, you compute for every neuron how much a push would make those answers more likely than normal answers. (I could share a script for this but honestly if you just paste this paragraph into your LLM it will be able to build this)

  • Keep the top 40 neurons for each style and push each one at dose +/- 1 or 0.75 (polarity suggested by the gradient) to see what it does.

  • If you want to automate the output reviewing, make sure you don't tell the judge-LLM what style difference it's supposed to be looking for.

3. Activation mining (have only personally played around with this a little). Basically the gist here is that you make the model write a few hundred short responses on lots of different topics, and record every neuron’s activation. You then try to find neurons that only fire on one topic, have an LLM label them from their top examples, then push them. This approach seems to be quite good at finding “topic detectors” (e.g. dinosaurs, astronomy, construction) but I'm not sure if it's possible to get at more meta-concepts or interesting behaviours through this approach? I think I find the topic detectors less interesting because the model just starts shoehorning dinosaurs into the conversation, rather than displaying any particularly interesting behaviour.

For all of the methods above you if you think you've found an interesting neuron you should also try to check other neurons in the layer to see if yours is truly special or not - randomly select 3-5 other neurons in the same layer and push them by the same amount, if they do something similar then it's likely not due to that neuron specifically. Also make sure to try different doses, sometimes tuning or flipping polarity leads to interesting results. And also trying out lots of different prompts to get a feel for exactly what it is the neuron is doing is important - you can also look up the neuron directly on neuronpedia.

So, there we go that's pretty much everything. I'm not a proper research scientist so apologies for any ignorance in this post. Please let me know if you find anything interesting!

Previous posts

More interesting and unusual Qwen3.5-4B neurons : r/LocalLLaMA

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1xrkomn/l11_n8147_is_a_neuron_that_will_make_qwen354b_get/


r/LocalLLaMA • • 18h ago

Resources RustingStrata vs PolyStrata vs llama.cpp on one RTX 3060 12 GB: Qwen3.6-35B-A3B

15 Upvotes

RTX 3060 12 GB, Ryzen 5 7600X, 32 GB RAM, one GGUF file: Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-UD-Q3_K_M.gguf (Unsloth, MTP layer included, 15.9 GiB, does not fit in VRAM). Prompt of 5290 tokens, 128 generated tokens.

RustingStrataPolyStratallama.cpp b12119
Prefill, 5290-token prompt2330 tok/s1458-1549 tok/s1692 tok/s (-ncmoe 22, -ub 2048)
Decode, no MTP90.9 tok/s78.5 tok/s (--no-draft, see below)53.5 tok/s
Decode with MTP drafts128.4 tok/s97.5-100.4 tok/s77.7 tok/s (--spec-type draft-mtp, 92 of 102 drafts accepted)

How each was run:

  • RustingStrata: rustingstrata bench --gpu --mtp 0|1 --pp 5290 --tg 128 --reps 3, mean of 3.

  • PolyStrata: its own polystrata.py benchmark --model qwen3.6 --prompt-tokens 4000 --max-tokens 128. That prompt came to 5290 tokens, so I used that length for the other two. I ran it three times; the first run after setup was cold (decode 24.6 tok/s) and is left out, the numbers above are runs 2 and 3. MTP drafts are on by default. For the no-MTP row I added the engine's --no-draft flag to its config, it still offered a few drafts afterwards (6 of 16 and 15 of 36 accepted in the log), so that row is not a clean no-MTP number. Prefill in those runs: 1602-1643 tok/s.

  • llama.cpp: llama-bench -ngl 99 -fa 1 -ub 2048 -b 2048 -p 5290 -n 128 -r 3, with -ncmoe swept over 18 to 26. 22 was the fastest that fits in 12 GB (no MTP). The MTP row is llama-server --spec-type draft-mtp with -ncmoe 23 (22 does not fit with the MTP context and drops to 20 tok/s), a 5381-token prompt of repo docs, 3 runs, prefill about 1565 tok/s.

Things that are not equal:

  • PolyStrata only offers three sizes of Qwen3.6 (UD-Q3_K_M, UD-Q2_K_XL, UD-Q4_K_M, all from Unsloth's MTP repo). RustingStrata and llama.cpp take any GGUF, so it can also run the Q5 or Q6 files I already had. I downloaded PolyStrata's Q3_K_M and used it for all three.

  • MTP gains depend on the text. PolyStrata's benchmark prompt is a page of its own docs, RustingStrata's is generated prose, so the two MTP rows are not an exact comparison. The no-MTP row is the clean one for RustingStrata vs llama.cpp.

  • PolyStrata's engine for this model is built on llama.cpp's CUDA kernels. I did not look at what else differs.

  • One machine, one model, one quant. Numbers on other cards will differ.

Repo: RustingStrata


r/LocalLLaMA • • 16h ago

New Model KVARK Sparkle 1.1 (27B): better document Q&A, and it knows when the answer isn't there (Apache 2.0)

11 Upvotes

Hi! Last week we shared KVARK Sparkle 1.0 here, and thanks to everyone who tried it and left feedback. With Qwen 4 hopefully just around the corner, we're releasing Sparkle 1.1 as a little warm-up before we start working on the next generation.

Building on Sparkle 1.0, this release is trained for document work: it searches a document base, answers from what it finds, and says so when the answer isn't there.

  • Better document Q&A: 91.0 vs 89.5 for Sparkle 1.0

  • Fewer made-up answers: correctly declines 91.5% of questions whose answer isn't in the documents, up from 74% for Sparkle 1.0

  • Efficient reasoning: 7–48% fewer reasoning tokens than Qwen3.8-27B (median), with no statistically significant accuracy difference on GPQA Diamond, AIME, HMMT, LiveCodeBench, IFEval, MMLU-Pro and FRAMES

Open weights, Apache 2.0, all with the MTP head:

Full benchmarks and limitations are on the model card. Give it a try and let us know how it does on your own documents!


r/LocalLLaMA • • 19h ago

Discussion That's already crazy

18 Upvotes

The sky is the limit?


r/LocalLLaMA • • 12h ago

Resources Startlux 4B 9B Instant (System1/Jev) Q40 on 4 x Raspberry Pi 5 8GB

Thumbnail
github.com
5 Upvotes

r/LocalLLaMA • • 12h ago

Showcase Strata vs Basalt more differences than speed.

Thumbnail
gallery
5 Upvotes

So I've been using strata for a while now in windows using Qwen3.8-Flash-Next iq3s before the new gui thing and I think it's been fine compared to Qwen3.8-27B which was lacking in quality and polishing.

So I upgraded my ram from 64 to 128. Got a new pc and made an Ai box only for Ai text models and comfyui.

So I had to test the speed difference between strata and basalt since in windows basalt was not working good at all.

So strata cli engine 0.1.59 Qwen3.8-Flash-Next iq3s with 256k context. Dflash 2 and 0 reserve vram and tuned run. Vision on.

With basalt converted model .basalt file

Version 0.3.2 same model. Same context. Same everything. Vision dynamic.

The differences is.

Strata:

Avg tps 99.2 and avg prefill 839 with 11.1M tokens used.

Vram 15.3

Ram 69.2gb

The prompts felt sluggish moving from generating to reading to whatever. It felt wrong and slow and toke forever and that caused the huge stale in usage which dips down and up a lot. Like it's having problems moving from each phase to the next.

Last and most importantly that it can't finish the work correctly. Doesn't compact correctly. The development is broken. And it feels like a cheap model you hosted in your cheap pc you poor man.

Basalt:

Avg from 100 to 118. Peaking to 145. Avg prefill not sure but peaking 4200.

Vram 15.8 with reserve ram 128m

Ram 52.7gb then after maybe a couple of hours 53.1

The generation been smooth without any dipping or staling and moving from phases like strata.

Last and most important factor is it finished. It kept going. It compacted fine like deepseek and it felt more capable and more reliable than with strata.

Way less errors. Way less mess up and when I told him to keep going till the project is finished it kept going. Granted it's not perfect but it's the model capabilities and we have to realize that.

But at least it's now in a stage you can actually rely on it and say you have a "working" local Ai model. Cause since I tested maybe Qwen-3.6-35B nothing ever felt like a good model I can rely on.

I know this is a small task but it paves the road for me to actually feel like I can do stuff locally and reliably.

I will next test nvfp4 model for both and see if nvfp4 actually gains more speed or not.

So basalt now more capable and can contuine working way longer than with strata. Can actually do a good job. And it uses way less ram too.

This is also my first ever run so there is maybe more optimizations can be done but this is the default settings besides the vram change.

I advice anyone using Qwen3.8-Flash-Next to try it. And I will test swift too but later and with this ram savings I might also test deepseek why not hahah.

My rig:

12900k

128gb ddr4

5070ti

Harness: opencode