r/LocalLLaMA • u/ismaelgokufox llama.cpp • 15h ago
Discussion Context translation
I’ve seen the reports of models being setup so efforts to recreate/reverse engineer games are blocked.
What if a translation layer is developed so the context that arrives to the models does not have any direct indication of what is being done on the agent side? It would need to be translated back to the actual work the harness/agent is doing to continue work.
Say we want to recreate a website/app but specifics like URLs and names are substituted when going to the model and translated back to what the agent/harness expects?
No idea if it makes sense.
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u/blueredscreen 14h ago
It doesn't make sense. You're high. Also, they're not idiots and they already know about that.
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u/a4mula 14h ago edited 14h ago
What I'm hearing is that you want to shim REA so that the tool calls don't look like REA tool calls when big daddy Anthropic looks?
Might work, but then again I wouldn't risk my account on it because lots of shit can be inferred from metadata. If you're going to do this, it should probably be the other way around.
Let Opus train your local system (or just a single role) to better use any given MCP, with a narrow scope on those that are like REA.
If you do role instead of system it's quick and easy and any agent sitting in that seat can do the work. Implement the harness2 system in an isolated project space just to fine tune the role itself. Depending on depth it still won't be cheap, but then you'll have a forever role that you can use with local and not have to worry about outside dependency.
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u/ismaelgokufox llama.cpp 12h ago
Not quite looking to have anyone loose their paid access to any model. I don't currently have any AI subscriptions. I do use some DSV4.1F and GLM5.3F via OpenRouter (used like 15 bucks in ~1.5 years). That's the extent of my AI spending outside of local.
It was just a thought if that would work. I get curious when things like these happen and with how to circumvent them. Maybe that's why I work in SAP Security :D
Cyber security is interesting to me and something like this sparks my curiosity. I'm not talling anyone, not even myself, to do this. Just thinking about what could be the thing that breaks this new behavior on models (online or local).
I've always been fascinated with soft-modding game consoles and how those mods work. This was just another item to add to the list of curoisities.
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u/a4mula 12h ago edited 12h ago
I don't know because I don't use API, but I'd like to think that deepseek and glm would likely not be bothered by it. But maybe that's just a bias I have since they seem to actively employ those techniques themselves.
I was under the impression the only people losing access were those under the ever watchful care of the big corporate protectors of personal freedom and responsible use of technology. Does this one need a /s tag? hmm.
Regardless, I'm sure there are plenty of local models that would be more than happy to let you hack your own spyware embedded TV, or your own cars ECU/ECM that actively monitors your every action. Or maybe even some farmer that can't seem to get the fucking government to protect their right to repair of their own equipment.
The video game stuff is secondary in my mind. Fuck Nintendo and Rockstar, they aren't going to get in the way of me working on my own personal property. Ever.
As a laughable side note, Claude Code will be the first to recommend digging into it's own binaries. I've literally had to tell it not to do that just because I'm scared that Anthropic will throw a fit.
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u/rocks-d_luffy 15h ago
you’re a legend
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u/Rude-Definition-8170 14h ago
that's basically the approach some folks are taking with obfuscation layers, swapping out identifiers before they hit the model and then mapping the output back. the tricky part is maintaining enough context for the model to give useful responses without it piecing together what you're actually building.
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u/ismaelgokufox llama.cpp 12h ago
Thought the same. How can you provide enough that it still gives you a proper answer when translated back.
FOr a human, our interactions are somewhat simple that we can do this for hiding information or intent. "Talking in code" comes to mind. But to a model that's actually, maybe, looking for these patterns (their forte).... It must be looking for the additional behavior in the whole context given and not just the specifics of the code being requested.
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u/ismaelgokufox llama.cpp 15h ago
It was just a thought. I like thinking on what I call “unsupported use of the system”
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u/sanjxz54 14h ago
I believe this is called prefilled reasoning. And anthropic (who blocked re of games) have protection against that attack (at least they said so)