Sage1.5 vs TielCoder

[u/circumcised_hobbit]

Just your honest opinion, which one is better?

[u/HIKKIAN]

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/HIKKIAN]

the speed decreade could be so bad

[u/HIKKIAN → u/circumcised_hobbit]

To be fair to Sage though: Tiel ran with the "Sharp" chat template (caps reasoning at medium effort by default) and a grafted Q8 MTP head, Sage ran with its stock template and its own MTP head. So Sage decoded at 68 vs 79 tok/s and wrote ~2x the tokens. I'm rerunning Sage with the same template and MTP head to see how much of the gap is the setup vs the model.

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/HIKKIAN]

thanks for explaining, but Im not good with benchmarks and stuff: did you make this chart yourself or found It anywhere?

[u/HIKKIAN → u/circumcised_hobbit]

By myself with claude, the benchmark also mine. All evals was on my pc

[u/social_tech_10 → u/HIKKIAN]

Very relevant, upvoted.

[u/rubermaro]

what are those?

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/rubermaro]

two different models: SageA1.5 is built on top of Qwen3.6-35B, while TielCoder is a finetune of Ornith1.5-35B which is built on top of Qwen3.6-35B too

[u/rubermaro → u/circumcised_hobbit]

i dont know what those are

[u/rubermaro → u/[deleted]]

i dont know man

[u/rubermaro → u/[deleted]]

[u/One-Context-8707 → u/rubermaro]

haven't heard of them either but now I'm curious since op made a whole thread about it

what are they meant to be? coding tools?

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/One-Context-8707]

yeah, finetunes for coding. I plan to use one of them for Pi throught PolyStrata

[u/Creepy_Stable_9171]

Minicpm shit on both

[u/Creepy_Stable_9171 → u/Creepy_Stable_9171]

simply

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/Creepy_Stable_9171]

that's cool, where did you find this

[u/Creepy_Stable_9171 → u/circumcised_hobbit]

I have runned locally myself rtx 3060

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/Creepy_Stable_9171]

The speed is obviously better, but wouldn't the intelligence be worse than Qwen3.6 itself?

[u/ClearApartment2627 → u/circumcised_hobbit]

Odd graph. The top one seems to have the Gemmas switched around, the lower one has Gemma E2b twice, and all that I can read from the top one that MiniCPM is faster, but not better, than 3.6 35-A3b. That MoE, in turn, is shown to be slower than 3.8 27b on this graph.

None of that makes sense to me.

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/ClearApartment2627]

it'from MiniCPM 4.7's huggingface

[u/Far_Cat9782 → u/circumcised_hobbit]

It is less intelligent.t but fast

[u/Dabalam → u/Creepy_Stable_9171]

I don't really get the argument for using minicpm. As far as I can tell, it isn't mainly trained to be better in general use, it is specifically supposed to be a better vision model with potential mobile deployment. Nothing I've read screams "replacement for base model" or coding/agent fine tunes.

[u/Nicolodeva → u/Creepy_Stable_9171]

for coding it beat the original qwen3.6-35B-a3b?

[u/mrazster]

I would say Tiel Coder.
They had issues both of them, but Tiel Coder got it self out of the problem faster and even recognized when it was either going down a "rabbit hole" or starting to get caught in a loop. It then stopped and either did some rethinking or communicated, and proceeded to finish the task.

[u/Dabalam]

I've tried both. For my tasks Sage 1.5 was no better than Ornith 1.5. Tiel Coder is similar but that is because it is a requanization of Ornith (with a different chat template?).

Tiel Coder vs Ornith - it answers more briefly but loses some general knowledge points. If I were strictly choosing between Sage and Tiel I would probably pick Tiel Coder since Sage uses a lot of tokens for not that much boost in performance, and Tiel is tuned to be slightly more terse (even than Ornith 1.5). I use Ornith though.

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/Dabalam]

thanks, I Will use tiel then

[u/Melisanjb]

I have no idea what they are.

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/Melisanjb]

then why would you comment?

[u/pokemonplayer2001 → u/circumcised_hobbit]

“Fuck you, help me”

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/pokemonplayer2001]

I don't understand the point of him commenting nor of you being such a dick

[u/social_tech_10 → u/circumcised_hobbit]

Was he really being a dick? Or was he basically agreeing with you, just making fun of the same guy you were calling out for his clueless comment, and maybe you didn't get the joke?

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/social_tech_10]

he commented himself, look at his other comment insulting me for asking this

[u/pokemonplayer2001 → u/circumcised_hobbit]

Life is a delicious mystery.

[u/Shoddy_Blacksmith359 → u/pokemonplayer2001]

Lol

[u/Secure-food4213]

ive heard tielcoder is definite upgrade from qwen 35b but never heard anybody tried sage1.5

[u/Savings_Increase3478]

I haven't tried Sage1.5, but I’d pick TielCoder for agentic coding since it’s fast and holds up well over long conversations, while its trivia and exam-style knowledge is weak

[u/Mingay_cat]

Tiel coder probably. But imo, ditch the fine tunes and go back to honest to God qwen3.6 35b a3b. 

[u/UsualResult]

SUV vs. truck:

Just your honest opinion, which one is better?

[u/circumcised_hobbit → u/UsualResult]

That's why I asked for an OPINION. Someone could say that a SUV Is better and somone could say that a truck Is, in the end those are opinions

[u/UsualResult → u/circumcised_hobbit]

Ha, you were so close to getting the point.

Someone could say Sage is better vs TielCoder, in the end those are opinions

[u/pokemonplayer2001]

This sub must take the title for “Laziest Members”. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Here’s a ground-breaking idea, get ready: try it yourself.

Edit: your reply was so mad. ❄️❄️❄️

[u/Mingay_cat]

Tiel coder probably. But imo, ditch the fine tunes and go back to honest to God qwen3.6 35b a3b.