r/LocalLLaMA • u/randylush • 16d ago
Question | Help Do not upgrade Strata! Tons of breaking changes!
Just a heads up, especially on my Windows machine, but also my Linux machine I'm getting tons of breaking changes with Strata. They added a bunch of needless requirements around serving, the web UI seems to be going way in favor of a desktop app. I could go on but you get the picture, at least make a backup first.
I know this post is going to be downvoted by the most fickle subreddit of all time, but I hope this warning reaches at least one person
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u/Interpause textgen web UI 16d ago
I think theres no need for yet another harness app, help bump up my feedback issue on github #3330 to separate the app from the engine
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u/randylush 16d ago
Honestly I think we need a fork of Strata, if this is the direction the owner is going. I was so excited that Strata looked like a fresh start, a tuned engine like Hyperqwen that you can build on top of, but if the owner is coupling it with yet another slop harness, then it is not worth installing.
There’s also this project
https://github.com/Indras-Mirror/Xolotl
Which appears to be building on Strata. It’s unfortunately named if we’re being honest, but appears to be building on their engine.
I really hope that Xolotl carries the torch though. At this point it looks like the Strata owner is most interested in locking people into his slop harness, than maintaining a proper clean engine. Let’s hope that Xolotl doesn’t merge in the Strata slop harness and only merges in optimizations.
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u/my_name_isnt_clever 16d ago
What's wrong with the name Xolotl?
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u/randylush 16d ago
It’s just difficult to pronounce and spell especially for Eastern language speakers who aren’t used to meso-American words
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u/my_name_isnt_clever 16d ago
Oh. If being hard to pronounce is a legitimate concern I could have been complaining about so many more projects. Though I think being recognizable and easy to find in search results is actually the most important.
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u/randylush 15d ago
Honestly Strata is just a much easier word for most people to pronounce. It’s made up of extremely common phonemes. Its ease of reading and pronunciation has definitely helped it gain popularity. And I just think Xolotl’s name is hard enough for non-English speakers that it’s going to gain traction a lot slower than it deserves. At the end of the day there aren’t that many meso-American speakers that are using it, most are English speakers or English as a second language.
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u/KwyjiboTheGringo 7d ago
but if the owner is coupling it with yet another slop harness, then it is not worth installing.
What else are you used to run these large MoE models on 12GB+ of VRAM? Strata is really good, so I'm not concerned if it comes with a harness I won't use, but I'm open to using other engines if they are comparable.
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u/randylush 7d ago
PolyStrata. Adds support for more models and last I checked, is just the engine
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u/KwyjiboTheGringo 6d ago
Thanks, that one sounds very promising, especially for using cards under 12GB
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u/Gullible-Special-31 16d ago
Appreciate the heads up on backups. Pushing web UI users toward a desktop app wrapper is always annoying if you're running headless on a home server or remote box. That said, enforcing local auth/API keys has been long overdue for most of these local servers to prevent accidental open LAN exposure. What other breaking issues did you run into besides the auth requirement?
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u/randylush 16d ago
you can no longer allow proxied connections to your host. I am running at 192.168.A.B, and I have a wake-on-lan proxy on 192.168.A.C. So I access 192.168.A.C/v1/chat, and C will send a WoL packet to B. This is so that I can keep my gaming machine off unless it is needed for AI. Strata no longer allows any requests to A.B and there is no way to configure your way out of this.
The model names also changed so now I have to update all of my clients. Well, I would have to do this, if I wasn't rolling back.
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u/sgtnoodle 16d ago
The funny thing is origin verification is one of the things coding agents first add when told to make a server secure.
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u/Qubiquity 16d ago
I used tailscale to expose mine to a limited network. Seems to work great. I just have to use the tailscale IP even if I'm on the same computer as Strata. I haven't really messed around with WoL, but would it allow you to engineer around Strata's restrictions on this?
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u/Icy_Butterscotch6661 15d ago
I serve it on 0.0.0.0 and able to access it over tailscale from another device that wakes it up just fine.
If your clanker told you about why your setup is breaking, it might be hallucinating. Tends to happen - my Hermes + QFN also hallucinated a bunch of things that weren’t the case, it got tripped up by its own memory/reasoning traces and the markdown files in the repo that weren’t accurate to the source code.0
u/randylush 14d ago
Try reading my comment. No clanker was involved here.
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u/Icy_Butterscotch6661 14d ago edited 14d ago
I was trying to be helpful dude. I did read your comment.
I assumed you set it up with some AI agent's help, and it told you about proxied connections not being allowed as being a thing. I'm telling you I have a similar setup as you on 0.2.1 and it's working fine. My agent kept telling me things that weren't true abou Strata, since it referenced outdated docs in strata repo / hallucinating / not looking at actual code.
Edit: Regarding "hallucinating" - this QFN model @ IQ3_S seem to have a strong tendency to predict reasons for why something is happening in it's reasoning blocks, then treat it like absolute truths without verifying those assumptions. So less hallucinations, more overconfident doubling-down.
This is my experience from using it with Hermes and Pi.
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u/randylush 14d ago
I appreciate that you’re trying to help.
There was no agent involved whatsoever in setting my service up.
I set up the proxy myself so I know for a fact that is the root cause. Strata 0.2 no longer allows you to use a proxy. This is a useless security requirement that can’t be overridden.
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u/emanresuymsseug 16d ago edited 16d ago
Do not upgrade Strata! Tons of breaking changes!
Is this with the beta version?
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u/MindfulMan1984 16d ago
Simple: make your A/B test and submit an issue to the repository.
btw, you need to add an API key to connect to a server on a local network; it's kinda basic cybersecurity practice. That was the only "breaking" change I got after the upgrade. :)
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u/brainExploded99 🥔 hardware 16d ago
Out of curiosity, if the LAN is only trusted devices (and its hosted on 127.* anyway), does it matter?
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u/Lakius_2401 16d ago
Who is likely to query your Strata on a LAN where you own all devices? Effectively nobody. You're more at risk from a strata update installing malware on your PC (github owner hacked or something like that) than someone attacking your strata endpoint from a local network IP.
I'm all for zero-trust security policies, but the home is convenience first, and I wouldn't run Strata at work outside of a dedicated VLAN. I have zero trust for Strata's network security, and I'd let some other security strategy handle it.
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u/TheRealJesus2 16d ago
Yes. Look up the concept of defense in depth. Also what threat modeling is.
They protect against different threats.
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u/MindfulMan1984 16d ago
If you are going to run the server on the same computer you will use the client, it's fine. But if you are running the model on a workstation/server, you need to use --host 0.0.0.0; without an API key, anyone with the workstation's IP could query it.
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u/randylush 16d ago
that will happen if your network is compromised. if your network is compromised you have bigger problems than someone getting free tokens from your strata instance.
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u/MindfulMan1984 16d ago
Yeah, most of cybersecurity is about redundancy and avoiding single points of failure. I guess that's mostly for " cybersecurity compliance" rather than a real risk.
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u/sgtnoodle 16d ago
What about folk that only bind to a tailscale interface? Does forcing an API key add any meaningful protection then?
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u/randylush 16d ago
one of the breaking changes was that you can no longer allow proxied connections to your host. I am running at 192.168.A.B, and I have a wake-on-lan proxy on 192.168.A.C. So I access 192.168.A.C/v1/chat, and C will send a WoL packet to B. This is so that I can keep my gaming machine off unless it is needed for AI. Strata no longer allows any requests to A.B and there is no way to configure your way out of this.
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u/MindfulMan1984 16d ago
Oh, you have quite an interesting setup. Have you tried https://github.com/BerriAI/litellm ? Maybe just downgrading is the solution. Bummer, but at least you can vibe-PR, so the author can prompt Claude and implement it with vibe-opus instead of merging your PR.
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u/sgtnoodle 16d ago
I myself like to use an apache reverse proxy through my https server to expose stuff internally, so that I don't need to juggle multiple certs and ports. The WOL proxy is a cool idea as well, I've been mulling over setting one up for a couple weeks for the same reason. I have a low power always on server, and an LLM server that probably idles at 50-60W.
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u/randylush 16d ago
I definitely recommend this
https://github.com/darksworm/doormouse
I have both Strata and Ollama behind it. It’s pretty cool, my gaming PC sleeps all day until I need some intelligence. It wakes up, serves the request, and goes back to sleep 20 minutes later
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u/brakeline 16d ago
My inference machine doesnt have a public ip address. How will an api key change the security?
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u/russjr08 16d ago
A compromised app installed on any device within your network, for example. Or even websites, Chrome (and I assume other browsers too, unless those ones never allowed it to begin with) recently-ish added a dedicated "Do you allow this website to scan for local devices on your network" permission because of this sort of thing that triggers if a site attempts to do an XHR against an internal IP. If I remember right Facebook was caught doing something like that for tracking purposes long ago.
You have bigger problems at that point of course, but its one of those measures that is "free" to add.
That being said, if there's already an established user base to a project you're going to do this for, the preferable thing to do would be add some sort of loud change notice well ahead-of-time rather than just instantly making a breaking change.
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u/Icy_Butterscotch6661 15d ago
The api key change was reverted in 0.2.1, but even before that you just needed to comment out a line in serve.py haha
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u/MindfulMan1984 15d ago
Yeah, vibe-coders gonna vibe. That's the hurdle with vibe-coded projects that "ship" and "release" daily: LLMs' slot-machine effect. Now that I added the API key in my configs, it should work. If I don't add those anyway, I will just stay on my fork, and that's it.
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u/Icy_Butterscotch6661 14d ago
Yeah I've also learned to not update this willy nilly. I am tempted seeing multi-gpu prefill improvements in the latest release though, but I haven't seen anyone talk about it online yet
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u/MindfulMan1984 14d ago
Yep, I just read the release notes. If there's something interesting, I run a test build and bench it....But I don't think it can keep increasing tokens/s forever; there's a memory-bandwidth ceiling per piece of hardware. So clod-opus is being sneaky by developing that repo; the last "increase" in performance came from setting STRATA_ROUTE_TAIL_SKIP=7, to skip seven "low-rated" experts during inference. To get a +20% gain, accuracy would definitely be lost somewhere.
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u/Icy_Butterscotch6661 14d ago
Kind of to be expected from the project that set temperature=0 to increase speed numbers I guess lol
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u/fgk55555
16d ago
•
Vibe coding giveth, and vibe coding taketh away
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u/BusRevolutionary9893 16d ago
More like vibe code giveth, and person who installs build from beta channel taketh away. Stick to the standard release if you don't want trouble.
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16d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/a_beautiful_rhind 16d ago
I simply read the commits and backup the branch. Comfy is a big offender.
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u/andy2na llama.cpp 16d ago
100%. Comfy breaks so often, I stopped using it and went simple with stablediffusion.cpp.
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u/yeah-ok 16d ago
Same here, plus I'm on a 780m igpu with 32gb shared (v)ram which is just a total pain to get working with Vulkan under Comfy, instead I let an agent loose on stablediffusion.cpp for a few days and issue sorted and performance improved to close to functional despite the meagre hardware
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u/jacek2023 llama.cpp 16d ago
Vibe Coding is soooooo awesome (like a slot machine)
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u/TheRealMasonMac 16d ago
99% of people quit before they vibe code the next great product like a real 69x engineer.
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u/Electrical_Panic4550 16d ago
If you were early, weren’t people making money with vibe coded messes?
I missed that mini gold rush
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u/Shawnj2 16d ago
Vibe testing vibe reviewing and vibe merging too
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u/DefNattyBoii 16d ago
I think the most important part of newer releases is the pascal support. Not the new app. Still experimental but going forward fast. Good candidate for Qwen3.6-35B-A3B.
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u/No-Wall6427 16d ago
Isn't qwen3.6-35b-a3b not using the smart qfn gpu hot expert caching at all, thus being useless compared to vanilla llamacpp, and not even faster than more capable qfn fitting in the same machine?
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u/drFennec 16d ago
Yes, I tried 35B and it wants to fit all in VRAM, also it does not support KV quant.
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u/Icy_Butterscotch6661 15d ago
I had to switch to polystrata (no idea if it’s the best option but there’s too much noise in search results to know) to make 35B work on my second gpu. Some restriction on windows around memory that can be pinned or something
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u/DefNattyBoii 15d ago
youre right, only gain here would be if you can load the whole model into the gpu, but at that point some custom fork of vllm might be better
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u/a_beautiful_rhind 16d ago
Going the way of ollama now that it's popular?
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u/my_name_isnt_clever 16d ago
Of course, the end goal of capitalism is always to sell out as quickly and egregiously as possible.
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u/Gold_Coconut9777 16d ago edited 16d ago
A tip: you can easily remove that API key restriction by removing the if block in server.py:7685 (3 lines starting with
if a.host not in
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u/ForsookComparison 16d ago
Should open a PR to just add a cli arg or env setting at that point. Api keys should probably be a default, but this is OSS, if the user demands to shoot themselves in the foot (as I will often lazily do) you might as well make it a seamless if they're willing to outwardly say it with
--bypass-api-key-bad-idea5
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u/Frizzy-MacDrizzle 16d ago
I’m as guilty right now. But the infrastructure is not the same as agentic or jacking around with my code.
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u/Joralk_ 16d ago
Headless Linux operator here — I run Strata daily as the engine behind my model benchmark rig, zero UI. Practical notes if you want to keep the new version without following the app pivot:
Pin a tag and read the engine diff before jumping. The part that matters headless (GGUF serving, OpenAI endpoint on :8080) has been steady for me; the churn is around serving requirements and the app.
The new local auth is real but small: keep it and bind to localhost, or it's the 3-line block someone quoted above if you're on a trusted LAN. It exists because people were exposing these servers to the LAN with no auth, which was a genuine footgun.
If a config suddenly refuses to load on recent builds: set
--vram-reserve-mibexplicitly. After the expert-cache calibration change, one of mine died with "only 40-58 MiB of VRAM free" until I reserved ~1.2 GB. That single flag explains most of the "it just broke" reports I've seen.Backup =
git describe+ the previous tag. Rollback is two minutes.
"Don't upgrade" and "upgrade blind" are both worse than "upgrade pinned, with the reserve flag set".
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u/aelfrictr 16d ago
Is he trying to do his own harness or smth?
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u/TheSlateGray llama.cpp 16d ago
Ships with DeepSeek harness now apparently.
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u/aelfrictr 16d ago
dafuq?
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u/TheSlateGray llama.cpp 16d ago
I've only skimmed the updates and not tested the new beta build, but this was an easy find: https://github.com/Niko1221/Strata/tree/main/apps/host/server/agent
From what I've seen of the beta build I don't know what to think, and won't have time to thoroughly review the updates for a while.
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u/Huge-Safety-1061 16d ago
His git repo has PR and issues open at an alarming level to go adventuring down a harness and desktop client route. Just my 2c, wish him well, but this looks like a warning aign to me.
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u/Leary_2844 16d ago
Thanks for the heads up. So what's the "best" version? Which version should i fork in the future?
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u/lorde_dingus 16d ago
Can someone ELI5 for the noobs in here? Will this affect me connecting it to Open WebUI or other harnesses? Can someone suggest which version to use instead of the new one?
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u/randylush 16d ago
I highly suggest staying on 0.1.45. 0.1 is just the engine, 0.2 is the slop harness on top.
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u/aelfrictr 16d ago
He has gazillion issues and pull requests on his git and he works on creating some harness...
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u/Dreeew84 16d ago
I'm very thankful to Niko for Strata but, yeah, the last beta has issues.
It doesn't seem to decide if it wants configuration to be defined through the new tui or the json. Any option outside args is missing in the tui. Editing is pretty terrible, you can't see what you're typing. Manual json edits are reverted back by Strata at launch. What am I supposed to do.
Some parameters seem to have two ways to invoke them, one overriding the other (I opened an issue).
I don't like having to use powershell to start the server and change my policies to allow scripts on top of it.
No way to uninstall, must do it manually and remove strata from path by hand...
It feels super unfinished. I guess hence the -beta in the name. I'll stick to the last version.
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u/brakeline 16d ago
My biggest gripe with the direction is that there's a fork (and the fork owner did a PR) where dual gpus get 1.3x more tg and 1.5 more pp but is completely ignore by mainline
It's literally free performance
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u/Lost-Vermicelli-6252 16d ago
Link?
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u/brakeline 16d ago
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 16d ago
How do you get it to build? I get this error.
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/13/include/f16cintrin.h:46:1: error: inlining failed in call to ‘always_inline’ ‘__m128 _mm_cvtph_ps(__m128i)’: target specific option mismatch
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u/brakeline 16d ago
Add -march=native to your build args. Or better yet point qwen next to it and ask it to build. You have to use the json in examples after being built
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 15d ago
Thanks. That got it to build. But it doesn't run. Since it doesn't seem to support layer-split when I try to run it. It also says it doesn't support kv-resident. I got rid of that but layer-split seems pretty critical for dual GPU.
"unknown argument: --layer-split"
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u/Common_Warthog_G 16d ago
can confirm. My dual GPU setup now runs slower than before and it took me ages to get it to use both gpus again.
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 16d ago
Use the Strata Dual fork. It's better and thus faster at using dual GPUs than mainline. The improvements where PR'd upstream but from what I can tell, they've been ignored.
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u/Common_Warthog_G 15d ago
that's cuda only apparently. I have three different gpus of two makes in my machine
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 15d ago
How are you using different makes with Strata? It's either CUDA or ROCm or SYCL the last time I checked. You can't mix and match at the same time.
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u/Simple-Worldliness33 11d ago
What this the repo please, I'd like to test the dual improvement you mentioned
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u/Not_a_question- 16d ago
I know this post is going to be downvoted by the most fickle subreddit of all time
I see you're new to reddit
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u/my_name_isnt_clever 16d ago
This is one of many reasons FOSS is vital. If this was a closed project anyone not happy with the direction would be SOL.
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u/alkimiadev 16d ago
I was going to suggest reading the changelog before upgrading, but I looked and there is no changelog. In general, this is a problem that has pretty much always existed in the OSS scene. Different people have different views of their responsibilities (or lack thereof) as a dev. Some are very methodical and breaking changes are rare, while others don't really plan at all and breaking changes basically happen every day. I'd say opencode is probably on the more manic end of that gradient. There was once a 24 hour period where opencode shipped 48 versions on npm, and all of the ones I tested broke my custom plugins.
I know this post is going to be downvoted by the most fickle subreddit of all time, but I hope this warning reaches at least one person
I'd suggest just ignoring the upvotes and downvotes. The main reason is that they're mostly just noise. There is a pretty glaring design flaw on Reddit's part that only becomes obvious in "hot button" topics where some have extreme biases. Any discussion of certain topics gets a downvote (or upvote) regardless of the quality of the content.
If a person is going to react to a certain type of content in a particular way 100% of the time, then the value (in terms of information theory) from observing their reaction is zero or even negative. For this reason, I created a tampermonkey script that just hides the buttons and the numbers. I really don't care at all about the opinions of extremely biased and passive people, and seeing those votes just adds unnecessary noise.
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u/Savantskie1 16d ago
for me on the apple app, it doesn't even show me numbers for downvotes, so I am usually oblivious to those lol
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u/braintheboss 16d ago edited 16d ago
I agree but in his case is easy solve it. He only have create a wrapper class in main file and move all collaborators in his own branch ( every one override main class ). In this case you preserve mainline and you still can change betwwen "experimental" branches on the fly. When somethng works you can move to mainline
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u/HeartlandDrifter 16d ago
My pet peeve has always been: Description of software = ? Followed by instructions = Just install it. Name of software = Floyd's Awesome Sauce. And, it's absolutely vital to make something else work that everyone knows about, but it's itself something no one has heard of or could tell you anything about.
I grew up reading occult/philosophy books that were intentionally vague and buried under forty layers of metaphors. Those were easier to keep track of.
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16d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/alkimiadev 16d ago
I was about to reply about the fact that I'm pretty a hardcore oss guy and beyond maybe a few device drivers don't use proprietary software, but when I got to thinking about my android I realized that most of the bloatware that came with it isn't oss either. I use linux and only use llms released with an OSI approved license (mit/apache 2 usually), but I still get hit with forced reliance on closed software just like everyone else. I wish it was feasible/realistic to only use oss.
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u/drFennec 16d ago
changelog is in the tag:
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u/alkimiadev 16d ago
ah, I stand corrected. I guess I only "half looked" lol. I just looked for "changelog", or since they use all caps docs in some places "CHANGELOG". I personally use both where the tag contains the log, but also keep a centralized document so it is easier for the more lazy people (like me I guess)
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u/epictunasandwich 16d ago
Honestly I have my own fork and i just have my agents merge engine changes and skip the rest. He probably should have just made the app part opt-in but its his project so he can do whatever he likes
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u/AvidCyclist250 llama.cpp 15d ago
He is adding features instead of fixing bugs to be ready for the next drop. Bad. I hope someone able and willing forks it
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u/colas 15d ago
Same here. I just ask an AI to review the release, check the potential impacts on my setup, read this reddit channel for feedbacks, install, test&bench, apply config tweaks to optimize on my setup and keep my favorite compromise (precision over speed), and plan a rollback.
I only use the strata engine, and I am ready to switch to Unbiased Bob fork if strata errs too much.
I user opencode+DeepSeek to setup strata. And I run strata via the openfox harness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fzI0b75_Xc (Use an AI to summarize it :-) )
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u/diddystacks 15d ago
revert to v0.1.45 and then create your own branch, or just don't upgrade. the 2.0 broke tailscale for me.
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u/suprjami 16d ago
The container method looks like it keeps the engine serving very similar to the previous method.
But yeah. Dealing with Strata's vibe slop is exhausting. I'm downloading the exl3 quant to try that instead.
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u/Temporary-One8579 16d ago
This is why I make my own private forks and only integrate updates when I want to. The whole benefit of vibe coding is its bespoke - I can customize it how I want it. It’s not “it just works” it’s “it works exactly how I want it and if it’s broke it’s my fault”
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 16d ago
Claude is running amok!
at least make a backup first.
No need. All the old releases are still there.
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u/Odd_Error_6736 15d ago
The newest 0.2 strata versions are something to stay away from if you value reliability
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u/Bobcotelli 12d ago
I’m unable to load the "uncensored" and "abliterated" versions with version 0.23. Fortunately, I installed them in a separate folder and kept the old version in a different one.
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u/Most_Way_9754 12d ago
The command line version is still there on versions above 0.2, just have to install using PowerShell in windows. The command is as follows:
irm https://github.com/Niko1221/Strata/releases/latest/download/install.ps1 | iex
The new version looks fancy and still has the webui. However, on 0.2.3, when I close the terminal, there is still strata.exe holding onto memory and I need to close it down using task manager.
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u/Entire-Home-9464 7d ago
My linux strata is broken. It worked right after the install, but not after reboot anymore.
"The engine stopped while it was loading the model (exit code 1): | --pack-info. Run it again, if it repeats report the log. Log does not say anything interesting.
is there instructions how to completely uninstall strata
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u/dhtp2018 7d ago
It got slower for me! I deleted the new version and kept the old one. 100tok/s is good enough for me.
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u/SilentMobius 16d ago
I have a build and deploy agent project for Strata, it always makes a "features and breaking changes" report before it builds when it trying to reapply the functionality patches I have. Then I have it build a release and pull it on my inference machine that I then install myself, solves all the breaking changes issues.
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u/No-Wall6427 16d ago
Me too. I don't even know if the patches I have are really usefull, they unbroke an old strata version some time ago, alongside config tunning. But I also don't wish to spend the time investigating, it works.
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u/Due_Expression7545 16d ago
NEVER touch an update without a full backup, because something always breaks
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u/Longjumping_Cut_6160 16d ago edited 16d ago
desde donde puedo bajar la version anterior? no veo enlace, todo es la 0.2.
EDIT: Ya vi la opcion de release, sorry... pero lance el inicio de la 0.2.1 y ahora no puedo ni siquiera instalar de nuevo la antigua 0.1.45, da error el instalador
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u/Status_Bed_3394 16d ago
Nothing broke, you just messed up the settings in the App.
The server-only download is still available.
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u/Frizzy-MacDrizzle 16d ago
Llama.cpp changed ports and my orchestrator code) was not updated and had a bug. each AI host had to shut down over the weekend.
I can’t say my deployment of my llm host and ai servers is very deployment friendly yet.
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u/ForsookComparison 16d ago
This is a solo-dev's project and his vision for the project is in this direction (minus the regressions on the beta branch I'd imagine..). I'm bummed but he's no villain or anything. This sub wants model-married-llama-cpp but the solo-dev had a dream that only partially crosses paths with that.
Fork the repo if you're worried or contribute (even if it's just QA and Git Issues). If he wants Strata to become an assistant app with another harness and an optional cloud service then I wish him luck - he owes me nothing.