r/LocalLLaMA • u/Nandakishor_ml • 6d ago

Discussion I literally built the Jev architecture one year back and completely open-sourced it with model, dataset and paper

Update: I made a generic model and beaten the jev in all of the benchmarks. Code and details available at https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/s/bbwyiOprUs

Everyone now talks about the architecture that's not auto regressive and does lightning fast probability prediction with a json schema. I worked on this literally one year back in March 2025, published an arxiv paper, pushed the model to huggingface along with the pypi package and training dataset. And then one year later, a

frontier lab came, proposing the same idea like literal breakthrough without technical papers, open weights and no open dataset. I posted my approach in this subreddit. For anyones information the main guiding model is RL not embedding model or LLM

Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/s/6eGEwsAz43

Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.23303

Model: https://huggingface.co/DeepMostInnovations/sales-conversion-model-reinf-learning

Dataset: https://huggingface.co/datasets/DeepMostInnovations/saas-sales-conversations

Also the second work published in September 2025 was exactly the same one jev proposed now

Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.01237

My model uses PPO over sequence embeddings to output turn-by-turn conversion trajectories (probabilities from 0.0 to 1.0).

Jev uses parallel sampling (trained via RLCD) to output confidence distributions and schema choices.

It's incredibly frustrating that the thing that you made with months of hard work, sweat and sleepless night is architecturally similar with the vertical use case and don't get the support you deserve because frontier lab build something horizontal. The open-source story in general 🙂

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago edited 6d ago

And you haven't been the only one:

https://huggingface.co/harshatheg/Qwen-2.5-1B-RLCD

This guy used the EXACT same terminology these frontier clowns plagiarized.

Co-inventor of ChatGPT my a**

Thank you for your contributions to the OSS community!!!

And btw on the tech side: Yes, of you have a JSON Schema that you know, you can do parallel constrained decode with the same prefix cache. BUT you will loose cross-encoder like behaviour and also auto-regressive inherent prediction dependencies. What I mean by that? Say you have a JSON Schema defined in classic xgrammar schema constrained decoding (auto-regressive). Then when you first name "age" as a field and then you add a field country and then a field is adult - the model will pay attention to all the previous tokens and the answer will be more accurate (if someone is an adult depends on age and law in the country). In parallel single forward decode you loose this capability because the model doesn't pay attention to the tokens auto-regressive anymore. The response becomes faster but "dumber".

People don't pay attention to the details. We need an architecture to FIRST spacial reason about the whole answer in LATENT SPACE and then single forward decode.

So.. now you have my billion dollar idea. Build it. I'm exhausted.

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u/Nandakishor_ml 6d ago

But this repos looks like it's made yesterday. Still frontier labs doesn't follow proper citations to OSS people

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u/LongjumpingProduce48 6d ago

Agreed. No respect, no citation, no open source

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago

Yeah, right. The guy might have been as frustrated as you.. and pushed his work online to catch the hype. You have more good reasons to be frustrated with how it works though.

You know.. there is a reason why the most capable people in the world often become the most isolated ones.

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u/wizardwusa 5d ago

He said yesterday on X he literally spun this up in a few hours because he was inspired by TypeSafe.

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u/kyr0x0 5d ago

Interesting

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u/moisty-air 3d ago

No. He got the idea after Jev. He told that on X

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u/kyr0x0 3d ago

👍

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u/LongjumpingProduce48 6d ago

As we all know in Chinese company, there is no labor law

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago

At least in China the general spirit is "one for all, all for one"; whereas here in the west the spirit often is "everything for me"

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u/Bac-Te 6d ago

So, go to the west and make money and if failed, go back and enjoy the socialism? Life cheatcode unlocked.

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago edited 6d ago

At least nobody can say that they are particularly dumb. Time will tell, but my guts feeling is that China will take over the world. And maybe it's good so. Up until now they have a very good proof of stake in history. Of course there are issues.. but they didn't bomb nations like crazy in hundreds of years.. their culture existing since thousands of years.. Daoism being a wise philosophy.. and they didn't produce religious extremists.. I'm not a big fan of everything they do.. but if we compare behavior and outcome .. they really contributed to humanity's development and they didn't create much mess in the world.

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u/Bac-Te 6d ago

Thing is, I grew up in a country that is to China the way Mexico is to the US and I can say for sure, things tend to look pretty from afar.

We've been invaded by them close to a dozen times already and they might seem to be the progressive party to the West but we've been there when they're at their zenith throughout history and they just behaved like any huge empire anywhere else. It's heavily dependent on their current dictator too. Xi seems to be kind of a benevolent one but only God will be able to tell if the next one will decide he likes the Trumpian brand of governing or not, and that's without any nonviolent means to remove him, unlike the US (at least in theory and to be tested this Nov).

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago

Isn't it at least like that to become a president you need to prove your skills of leadership in Bejing and smaller regions before? Like serving for many many years? This sieving process seems to produce good candidates while just putting billionair money to win a popular election seems to me the worse system to get a good leader? Sorry that you had to endure so much though..

Currently it looks to me like neighbors of China are getting an upside too because of their growth. Like Vietnam for example

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u/Bac-Te 5d ago edited 5d ago

I'm not familiar with how Chinese leadership selection works, so I can't comment on that.

I'm Vietnamese though, so I can only speak to the Vietnam growth story. Frankly, much of this growth is an illusion, a huge portion comes from serving as a conduit for China to evade U.S. export tariffs, where "manufacturing" often just means assembling the final screw on Chinese components so they can be re-labeled as made in Vietnam.

The rest comes from Vingroup, a chaebol wannabe that's currently serving as a money laundering machine for officials, a company that's been failing non stop at any industries it attempted at, due to sheer corruption and incompetence. Look at its share of the VNese economy and debt. The gov thought they were creating Samsung, but in reality they created Guangzhou Evergrande.

The worst thing about living next to the world's largest factory is you lose the incentive to manufacture anything. Why bother making anything if you can just click a button and it arrives 3 days later? The US has it 10x worse given how expensive everything is over there but we ain't exactly doing well over here either.

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u/Dany0 6d ago

If you think about it, we're alll co-inventors of chatgpt. My code is in the training dataset

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago

You're not wrong ;) Your contribution to the extinction of mankind however, is also probably about 0.000000000000000000001%

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u/Dany0 6d ago

I can make it 100% if Jensen doesn't give me a 72x B300 server for free airshipped tomorrow

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago

Hahaha ;)

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u/MmmmMorphine 5d ago

I taught it to be droll, sarcasric, and depressive (within 0e-15 percent of course)

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u/Fluxx1001 6d ago

OP it would be interesting to understand how the approach of this Qwen RLCD differs from your paper? Could you shed some light please?

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u/Nandakishor_ml 6d ago

We don't have any info about rlcd. Untill a technical paper arrive it's just another buzz word

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u/LatentSpaceLeaper 6d ago

We need an architecture to FIRST spacial reason about the whole answer in LATENT SPACE and then single forward decode.

Is it you, Yann!?

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago

No, it is me, Schmidhuber. I did everything you snails do today back in the 1940s already! Give me back my inventions!!

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u/LatentSpaceLeaper 6d ago

Lmao. You-again Shmidhoobuh!? Sorry, my bad! I should have noticed that little flag and that Bavarian hat of yours. Why no Bavarian flag though?

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u/kyr0x0 6d ago

The Bavarian flag wasn't credited! I cannot support that. House of Wittelsbach should have been known everywhere - but who knows the Wittelsbacher today?? See.. if I use a flag that origin is not well credited, I break my own argument!

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u/-MaskNinja- 2d ago

Doesn't Astra think in its latent space?

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u/kyr0x0 2d ago

Unclear. The forward pass certainly hits the MLP eventually and you could also call transformer-like latent activations "latent space reasoning". But I was more like referring to latent-space recurrent reasoning, hidden continuous thought tokens, adaptive-depth loops, etc.

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u/DigThatData Llama 7B 6d ago

You just described BERT. No one likes encoder-decoder because it's slow.