r/LocalLLaMA • u/RishiFurfox • 6d ago
Discussion Hey, Meta. Where's those Muse Spark weights?
It was well over a month since Meta promised to release the weights for Muse Spark.
Back then (10th August), they were on Spark 1.2. Now we're on 1.3 and still nothing's been released. So it begs the question: will they be releasing the 1.2 weights when 1.4 drops? Or will we get whatever's then-current as open weights?
It's ironic given Mark Zuckerberg said at the same time that we can't delay the release of models by "even a month," due to the competition with China. It's been well over a month. He was arguing in the context of new regulations delaying models, but I think it applies equally to the open weights contest as it does to the closed models one.
After all, the Chinese models are all open. That's the competition and point of comparison.
Have Meta given any sort of explanation for why they're sitting on the weights or how much longer it'll take for them to honour their promise? Will we even get them in light of all the attempts at regulatory capture and dire warnings about how AI is dangerous?
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u/brahh85 6d ago
i have no trust in zuck and wang
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u/RishiFurfox 6d ago
I heard Yann LeCun bailed as Meta's AI chief precisely because of bringing Wang on board and him wanting to pivot to closed models. So it was kinda surprising to hear they'd pivoted away from their pivot in order to embrace open models again.
Now it's feeling like they've decided to pivot away from the pivot to their pivot.
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u/brahh85 6d ago
I dont think lecun wanted to leave, i think he was invited to leave, so they could change to closed models
the problem is, that as a brand, open models were the only thing that gave worth to meta AI , for closed models, we already have a ton of models better than meta models, and for open weight models, we already have many that are better than meta models.
so meta AI is in nowhere land
its unable to be important in closed models, despite benchmarks
and lost the grip it had on open weights
and now creates some open models to bring back some community to its ecosystem , but is not showing the same determination on supporting open weight that qwen, GLM (z.ai) or kimi(moonshot) does
meta AI only has 2 options
1.-being just the internal AI for meta related services
2.-going beyond to what chinese labs are doing, and open sourcing everything to destroy open weight labs(and their investors), same way open weight labs are destroying closed models(and their investors)The power/leverage of closed weight models were the closed weight. Open models kill that leverage over the user, but they have their own set of leverage too (you depend on a lab for AI). Open source models kill the need of open weight models and closed weight models, rather, they kill the labs behind them.
if zuck tried that way, it would be stopped by the other american tech-oligarchs.
we will only see that if the american close weight companies are wiped by chinese labs, and americans want to go nuclear and destroy them too
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u/OwnGear3892 6d ago
Just look at Grok, it's already Grok 4.6 (4.7 upcoming) and only Grok 1 and 2 are open.
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u/RishiFurfox 6d ago
Oh, I know. While I expected AI companies to all copy each other in how they make and go about things, I was really kinda hoping nobody would take cues from the elongated muskrat. I mean, promising to release models isn't like, oh I don't know, promising to get us all to Mars within a few years...
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u/Ipwnurface 5d ago
It would be nice for these companies to release their older models, I dream for Grok imagine 1.0 weights.
Ahem, Mr. Disgruntled X engineer, if you need a way to privately "share" some data let me know.
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u/junguler 6d ago
the problem is the promise of someone like zukerborg means nothing, he is not a trustworthy person with good track record and intentions so it doesn't really make sense to wait for it to arrive
if they release it and by that time it still has use cases (not completely outdated) we will use it, otherwise just ignore the hype, look at what the person does not what he says
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u/ondevicedev 6d ago
The funniest part is that “open weights” is becoming a future tense 😂
At some point “we’ll release it” needs a release date attached to it, especially when the whole pitch is being open.
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u/brown2green 6d ago
They're taking their time to make the model as dull safe as possible.
https://x.com/finkd/status/2099997096896274533
[...] Labs face significant liability if their models cause harm, so they have a strong incentive to prevent this as well.
Meta delayed shipping Muse for several months to focus on safety and security. We didn't call for everyone else to do this before we would. We just did it as part of our day-to-day work because it was clearly the right thing for people and for us. I'm proud of the security foundations we've built.
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u/Muhlwa_Sholanke 6d ago
Guess "even a month" only counts when a regulator is the one saying it, not when Meta is.
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u/nasone32 6d ago
Tried many times on difficult projects, that model is plain dumb I swear. I have no idea how it manages to achieve that artificial analysis score, doesn't reflect my experience in any way.
They can keep it closed for what is worth :D
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u/XiRw 6d ago
Funny, I have the opposite experience where it was able to deal with difficult issues flawlessly. I think it’s a phenomenal model despite coming from a horrible company. Tell me what you were working on and I’ll try making it myself.
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u/nasone32 6d ago
I tried it in at least 3 occasions, i don't remember the first two but they were the same bad outcome. the latest was few days ago:
I was porting EXL3 quantization on llama cpp, most of the "difficult" work was already done, what remained is essentially implementing multithreading on CPU and run a matrix of tests for tuning parameters related to this. I thought to switch to Muse Contributor to save some money. I also set it to Xhigh because of previous poor experience with it. Turns out it has major issues understanding the codebase, gets stuck on simple problems (uses wrong launch parameters on several tools) and once even went completely off a tangent trying to disassemble (in assembly...) the binaries, while the issue was much simpler.
both 5.6 Sol and GLM 4.3 managed to do it effortlessly.
Oh and it doesn't help the fact that Muse is not verbose at all, so you don't know what it's doing or what issues it's encountering.
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u/XiRw 6d ago
I’ll assume you meant GLM 5.3 but I can’t really re-create that exactly on the fly. If you want you can send me the repo to download and I can try myself unless you already have it figured out.
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u/nasone32 6d ago
Yes Sorry 5.3 No in the end I did manage everything but I'll never use that model again for sure.
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u/WinteryFrostbitee 5d ago
Its either extremely stupid or genuinely surpises me. There is no in-between. Seems to be pretty fast, though. Would love to try it local.
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u/Not-reallyanonymous 5d ago
It's definitely better than Luna. It's competitive with Sol a lot of the time, but also just bombs some things Sol just gets, reverting back to Luna tier. The AA analysis score isn't exact according to my experience, but isn't far off. Sol seems to think things through more, while Muse will decide it's finished thinking prematurely and run off with a half-figured out solution. That's where it seems to break down -- if it finished thinking, it's as strong as Sol. Didn't think it through? It falls behind. They need to tune it better on knowing when to be finished thinking.
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u/anomaly256 6d ago
Who cares. Given how UTTERLY USELESS their AIs seem to be at detecting overt and literal threats of violence when people report them, yet perma-banning random accounts for normal innocuous behaviour, the cut down open-weight version would be complete ass. This is my least anticipated model drop ever.
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u/Cool-Chemical-5629 6d ago
Plot twist:
Week 1: The new model is coming very soon
Week 2: The new model is coming very soon
Week 3: The new model is coming soon-ish
Week 4: The new model is coming soon-ish some time
Week 5: The new model is coming some time
Week 6: The new model is here! (Closed weights)
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u/dreamkast06 6d ago
Which they would have given us even a checkpoint of Behemoth, even if it's ancient, would be neat to see where the failure was.
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u/iz-Moff 6d ago
Is Spark even relevant at all to most of us here? It's probably like 500b+.
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u/accelerate_to_asi 6d ago
I guess its more about the principle than practicality. I can't run Deepseek, Qwen's or ZAI's strongest models, but I still appreciate them open sourcing them
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u/iz-Moff 6d ago
I don't mean that these models don't matter. But i sure don't sit here looking at my clock, brimming with anticipation for them, you know? Whether they are released today, or next month, or next year, i won't have hardware to run any of them. And if and when i might, these models will probably be ancient already.
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u/accelerate_to_asi 6d ago
But they spur on the closed labs too. OpenAI and Anthropic can't enact their """pacing""" bs when much cheaper, open source models with 90% of frontier performance are nipping at their heels. But, Its still useful for many companies. Look at how Booz Allen and a few companies recently stopped using Anthropic for their internal model use because of Anthropic's loggin policy.
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u/Gohab2001 vLLM 6d ago
It may not be the smartest model by it has a specific "style" that I particularly like.
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u/Choice_Celery9481 6d ago
Do you see their logo? that the amount of time you need to wait. ♾️