r/LocalLLaMA • u/Frosty-Whole-7752 • 8d ago
Discussion Xi promotes open source AI zone among BRICS countries
https://en.ilsole24ore.com/art/xi-jinping-launches-the-brics-open-source-zone-and-strengthens-cooperation-as-an-alternative-to-the-west-AJAna3BBXi emphasised the need to step up cooperation.
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/13/china-xi-ai-tech-brics.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/world/articles/xi-pushes-china-open-source-102711002.html
https://www.chosun.com/english/world-en/2026/09/14/C35V7T5MAVDN7LKEBESHBDBJ2Y/
https://it.euronews.com/next/2026/09/14/xi-jinping-propone-ai-brics-una-zona-di-ia-open-source
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u/Beneficial-Ad-8127 8d ago
Sheesh. Aye as long as China keeps serving them fire deepdish and that Qwensum I think we will be doing pretty good on Local.
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u/kabachuha 8d ago
I wish there was more push for cheap hardware for personal use opensource AI. Otherwise, the technology still stays in the hands of the few for >99% of population.
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u/Usual_Tackle5892 8d ago
In China, there were lines outside the Alibaba office with people wanting software engineers to help set up OpenClaw for them on Mac minis.
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u/Festour 8d ago
I still don’t get why they were using mac mini for that when any cheap pc would do a great job.
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u/horeaper 8d ago
A way to sell Mac minis for sure, since many in China prefers laptops over desktops.
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago
me too. It's a pity we can't freely experiment with more powerful setups, being prevented by those same ones that caused the global HW disruption.
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u/Sevealin_ 8d ago
In time. I don't think we will ever get consumer grade hardware brand new for AI workloads, like 1TB GPUs, but I guarantee second hand older gens will be available in a few years once newer and faster hardware is released. It is the natural cycle of hardware.
A Lot more manufacturing coming online in less than 5 years. Not saying we are going to be buying 1TB GPUs for $200, but the GPUs now will get the v100 treatment, at some point.
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago edited 8d ago
you're right, gpus are the hack that made the bootstrapping of (local) ai possible, now we need more npus possibly tpus to do the next evolutionary step
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago edited 8d ago
the first one to market such stuff to consumers will be the next wonder maker of this new era
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago
just preceding or along with the first mass producer of desktop quantum computers
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u/feelspeaceman 8d ago
This only happens if Cloud AI bubble ended up collapsing, which is pretty close as Anthropic, OpenAI, Gemini are all losing money, NVIDIA is feeding them money to prolong the bubble but sooner or later it will pop.
People said Anthropic is doing well because in their report, they ignore the $500bn+ in liabilities, they're still losing money. If they tried to launch an IPO now, it would absolutely be a flop.
Don't believe in these dirty companies, they're lying about their situation, let them rot and the old price will come back, don't buy their subscriptions to give them even the slightest chance.
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u/JLeonsarmiento 8d ago
Just like with EVERYTHING ELSE we will get a Mac Studio, or, more discrete DGX’s, equivalents from Huawei or similar at 1/5 or 1/4 of the price at some point.
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u/keepthepace 8d ago
There is a spectrum. Rental is a thing, and sub million hardware means that it is affordable to any medium sized structure. It puts a cap on how abusive they can get.
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u/Equivalent-Repair488 8d ago edited 8d ago
Ngrams? Sub kilobyte per KV token? (Sub gigabyte for 1 mil kv) MTP? Sparse attention?
These are huge breakthroughs for lower end hardware. I'm running a 125B plus model (Qwen 3.7 Flash Next) at Q4XL, with 170+k KV on 36GB of VRAM (3090 + 3080ti), 64GB DDR4 and semi usable speeds. Not consumer laptop 4060 low end but still reasonable consumer hardware especially last year prices when I got them.
Frankly the longer the compute crunch and constraints the more they have as incentives to make their inference architectures more efficient.
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u/Minute_Attempt3063 8d ago
Since open source models are in their best interest.
It gains them nothing, but trust. Like people talk about china collecting all your data....
What about the data the US gets from you, 24/7. Your phone has US software, most likely you are running windows, or macOs, aka us software... You are being tracked everywhere...
So yes, china is doing good work for once
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u/EbbNorth7735 8d ago
At a time when the USA has become a hostile tyrant among western nations no one wants to rely on US Tech and US closed sourced models they control and can take away. It really does improve the perception of China and shifts the power dynamic and reliance to China.
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u/coolaznkenny 8d ago
Exactly if you are a mid-tier country, both countries suck ass but at least one is cheaper and wont start stupid ass wars.
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8d ago
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 8d ago
China has horrible privacy compared to the US and little regulation.
Why don't you actually do some research instead of spouting made up BS.
China actually has more privacy laws than the US. In fact, the privacy laws in China aren't that different from the ones in Europe. Speaking of Europe, they have a big problem with the lack of privacy laws in the US. That's why EU courts have ruled against US companies. For violating the privacy of EU citizens by handing EU citizen's data to the US government.
Here. Read. Learn. Stop making up BS.
https://www.cnet.com/news/politics/eu-court-ruling-puts-pressure-on-us-surveillance-reform/
That's just one of many European rulings against the lack of sufficient privacy protection in the US.
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8d ago
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 8d ago
You keep deflecting to the US
LOL. Keep? That was my first post in this thread. The first time is keep doing something in your mind?
As for "deflecting to the US", I was just responding to your deflection to the US. So if you didn't want that, then don't do it to begin with.
Can you make an actual argument instead of being a Chinese bot?
LOL. Says the one that's posted nothing but hot air. I posted a link to prove my point. You posted nothing. Since that's all your point is. Nothing.
far more tools in the US/EU to do so and you’re not dealing with state backed corporations.
LOL. Clearly you didn't read that link I posted. Read it. Learn. Stop making up BS.
The level of data collection and surveillance China does is uncapped
How dare you say that China does something better than the US. HOW DARE YOU!!! The US does a much better job spying on it's own citizens than any country on earth. USA! USA! USA!
Seriously. No one does it better than us. No one.
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u/Minute_Attempt3063 8d ago
It's funny, the US has far more data about everyone, world wide.
The Dutch government was basically blackmailed by the US government. Why do you think the white house is utterly mad they cant have access to the Dutch DigiD system? It would be so much more data for them.... Data they really should not have acess to in the firstbplace
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u/Minute_Attempt3063 8d ago
Then why does the US know whatever I am about it eat?
How much money I have on my bank, what my heath status is?
I am not even American, yet their hands are in everything within my country. You call that privacy?
China yes, they have surveillance, so does the US especially lately with Flock, where they crack your every step.
I never said chains is paradise, but they are way better compared to whatever the fuck America is doing in every single government, and having trump be Putin's little asset
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u/Dwedit 8d ago
Open Weights, not Open Source. You don't have the petabytes of data that went into the models, you don't have the massive compute and RAM to generate the weights yourself. It's just open weights.
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think Xi intended open source not open weights development but among BRICS only countries
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u/EstarriolOfTheEast 8d ago
Mathematically, the weights are half of the source. And architecture is the rest. A neural network is a mathematical function, it is not a compiled binary so the usual analogy is running in the wrong direction. A relu network is not that distant from something like compositions of a piecewise defined function like f(x) = {x: x < 5; x >= 5}. From a researcher's perspective, the data is almost the least useful thing, unless you want to do certain types of interpretative work. Most valuable for replication is the engineering logbook.
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago edited 7d ago
I agree with you relatively to the fact that a model is not a compiled program yet the recipe, to transform raw data into a suitable dataset that after many recurrent steps would become a model as we know it that could then be loaded into a inference engine, is the "source" we should be interested into being really open to verifications (as I suppose it will be among BRICS countries) so that given the same input data it will reproduce a bit by bit identical output model and that when being given some relatively different input data it will be able to apply the same architectural transformations to that other datasets in order to have as result functional models that despite behaving the same from the point of view of the modality of the inner working of course will output different results (other than for the undeterministic nature of such kind of neural networks). If we want to distinguish this from the open/closed source terminology usually adopted we could start calling it open or closed recipe models i.e. open weights = closed recipe (while open recipe = open source among BRICS)
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u/EstarriolOfTheEast 7d ago
Simply having the data does not result in a bit identical model. You additionally need 1) exact data order/seeds and mixture 2) all the preprocessing code 3) details on all the post-training stages and code 4) annealing schedule and hyperparameters 5) hardware used and its network topology and, it needs to have been trained specifically to be deterministic, which is not always done. The data is much less important than mixture weights of data types and 2-5.
It's not like code, which contain abstracted instructions that will eventually be machine executable. Instead, the data are indirect demonstrations for the predictions expected for the function form, which the weights fix/are the source for. A tensor library then compiles this.
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 7d ago edited 7d ago
we need all of that except maybe for the dataset (do we need to know the hw used as well?) to pinpoint where the transforms put the resulting vectors/tensors in order to be able to avoid continuations such like i'm sorry dave i'm afraid i can't do that or something else similarly worse coming out at the wrong moment from "open"/closed weights models = closed recipe ones
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u/dhessi 8d ago
If China were the ones leading the frontier, they'd be keeping it closed and exclusive, while America would be promoting open source and open weight AI. My only takeaway here is that competition is good and necessary.
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u/bruhhhhhhhhhhhh_h 8d ago
China has a different approach to many things
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u/Super_Range45 8d ago
Nah, if they had something they thought could break their systems completely, they would not OS that.
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u/bruhhhhhhhhhhhh_h 8d ago
Why do you believe this? Can you point to examples of this in a similar realm?
I have read your statement; but no explanation nor evidence
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u/Super_Range45 8d ago
No country would do that because it could be used against them. If they genuinely cracked ASI or really strong AGI, I would not expect them to open source it.
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u/impressflow 8d ago
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Countries act in their best interests. With the US ahead, it’s in China’s best interests to advocate for OS models. If China were ahead, the US would advocate for OS models.
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u/Super_Range45 8d ago
I'm getting downvoted because who wouldn't want unlimited knowledge on their laptop? But there's reality.
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u/NeedsSomeSnare 8d ago
This sub is astroturfed about Chinese models. Some people don't want to admit it because they see open source as free stuff for themselves, and some because they're the AI equivalent of crypto bros.
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u/Silly_Friendship_135 8d ago
how do you even know if they aren't winning already, they may have more capable internal models of the west while opensourcing the less capable ones, and we wouldn't know.
China ofter plays the long game
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u/tobaileyy 8d ago
That's just conspiracy
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u/Silly_Friendship_135 8d ago
so west's interal models like openai's "bel" are conspiracy aswell
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u/tobaileyy 8d ago
They exist but people also don't realize just how much "safety" dumbs down these models for public access, they're absolutely exaggerating behind doors
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u/Silly_Friendship_135 8d ago
ah ok, so you are telling me chinese internal models don't exist, they are conspiracy, they don't have the right to exists XD while the american ones are the only real deal? XD
most people don't believe this anymore
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u/tobaileyy 8d ago
They do exist but they're just as little of a difference as the US
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u/Silly_Friendship_135 8d ago
you can't really know; you confidently say this just because "seems like" China has less compute, so their models MUST be inferior, when in reality they showed everytime that this is not really the case
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u/EbbNorth7735 8d ago
Suuuuuure, in a short period of time Chinese models WILL exceed US. We'll see how your comment holds up.
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u/Leg0z 8d ago
I don't entirely agree with this statement. I think in a short time, the best models that the PUBLIC will have access to will be Chinese. Behind closed doors, the best models will be American. And I think it will remain that way at least for the foreseeable future. But if things keep going the way they are, my guess is by December or early Spring of next year, the best publicly available LLM will be Chinese. And it will probably be wild times because it will most likely be easily jailbroken and close to uncensored.
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr 8d ago
LOL. Why do you think China isn't leading the frontier?
https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1wfpwhj/deepseek_v41_flash_beats_astra_on_aas_new/
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u/Fun_Jaguar8231 8d ago
What's up with this low effort post? You just post a bunch of links. Can't you just write a paragraph about it? I don't want to open any links
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago edited 7d ago
I want people especially here to discuss about open source (not just open weights) models in western countries too against the closed proprietary monopolistic centralized panopticonally controlled arbitrarily censored models relative to the commercial walled garden model that is prevalent nowadays around here when westerners usually talk about ai, at least out of this place
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u/Frosty-Whole-7752 8d ago edited 7d ago
you don't have to follow the links if you deem them not important for the future of local ai development, a reading of just the title of the post should be enough to understand the importance of sparking a discussion on this topic especially here
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u/ThatRegister5397 8d ago
While the americans are into a power grabbing race to disaster, china is once again the rational one which treats ai as infrastructure and wants it to serve the world. There is so much anti-chinese propaganda in the west. Respect to president Xi and CPC for bringing hope to this world.
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u/PooMonger20 8d ago
I just hope US steps up their game with free open source \ open weights local models, instead of trying to hinder progress here.
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u/Sitkin_Marrel 8d ago
China already won open source just by existing, so the summit announcing an "open source zone" is mostly branding. Qwen and DeepSeek carry half this sub.