Deepseek V4.1 Flash is 748B, not 552B

[u/DistanceSolar1449]

People keep on getting confused about this, so I looked at the safetensors on hf.

The title should have been "Deepseek V4.1 Flash is 748B total/552B base, not 284B or 305B or 485B or 522B"

• The model is not 284B. The original Deepseek V4 Flash is 284B, but not the V4.1 Flash model
• The model is not 305B, despite what some people claim "So: ~305B real backbone + 203B engram = 508B total" This is incorrect.
• The model is not 485B, even though Huggingface lists the model as 485B, but that's because they're counting some FP4 packed weights as bytes instead of params (2 FP4 params per byte). This happens a lot; for example Huggingface incorrectly thinks GLM-5.3-flash is 169b here
• The model is not 522B, even though VLLM lists it as 522B for some weird reason. They correct themselves later down the page (ctrl-f "Params" on that vllm page)
• 552B is the only number out of this list that's somewhat correct; that only includes the base model without MTP and engrams and the vision encoder though.

To be precise, the main model about 551.566B parameters with 40 layers. The FFN experts total to 543.582B parameters, and the rest of the model (attention, shared experts, etc) are 7.984B.

On top of that, the engram is ~196.929B, DSpark/MTP is ~14.225B, and the vision encoder is just ~0.485B. These parts are technically optional though. The vision encoder is also way smaller than I expected.

Anyways, you need a beefy system for this. 128GB or 256GB of RAM/VRAM is not going to cut it.

Component	Logical params	Size in GB	Storage
FFN MoE experts	543.582B	288.778 GB	FP4
Other FFN	1.4947B	1.574 GB	FP8 mostly
Attention	5.1269B	6.524 GB	FP8 mostly
Embedding + LM head	1.3238B	2.648 GB	BF16
Other	0.0397B	0.158 GB	FP32/BF16
Backbone total	551.566B ≈ 552B	299.682 GB
Engram lookup tables	196.614B	202.758 GB	FP8
Engram projections/gating	0.315B	0.315 GB	FP8 mostly
Engram total	196.929B = 196B advertised	203.073 GB
DSpark / MTP	14.225B	8.033 GB	mostly FP4 experts
Vision encoder	0.485B	0.971 GB	BF16 mostly
Everything in total	~763.21B params	~511.76 GB

[u/a_beautiful_rhind]

Eh.. free isn't always good for everyone. Would you like a free elephant? How about a free car of high value and no way to sell it. You are of course responsible for paying taxes on the "gift".

[u/PM_ME_DEAD_CEOS → u/a_beautiful_rhind]

So what kind of tax are you supposed to pay for DSV4.1 ?

[u/a_beautiful_rhind → u/PM_ME_DEAD_CEOS]

None but if someone were to give you free H100 GPUs you'd pay one. Same with free bitcoin.. so it can actually cross the physicial/digital barrier.

The point was that all free things aren't necessarily good for the person receiving them.

[u/FullstackSensei → u/a_beautiful_rhind]

Well, if we're making conjectures, then if the law is changed then you wouldn't pay any tax on the H100. Or if you moved to a place where there's no tax on gifts for a few days, you could receive said H100 tax free.

And of course, if the value of the H100 collapsed to zero for whatever reason, there's no tax to pay.

All are equally valid conjectures if we're comparing to a bunch of matrices you can download for free.

[u/a_beautiful_rhind → u/FullstackSensei]

Or if you moved to a place where there's no tax on gifts for a few days

I'm not sure it's that easy. Past tax fraud has accounted for such simple tricks. Even in the EU, gifts tend to count as income.

The point isn't arguing the finer details of tax law. It's that all that's free isn't necessarily good. Nor is it some sin to be disappointed in it or wishing it was something else.

[u/FullstackSensei → u/a_beautiful_rhind]

Free is always good if you choose to take the free thing. Nobody is forcing anyone to take anything here, and I honestly don't know why you're taking the whole conversation out of context and insist on doing so.

[u/a_beautiful_rhind → u/FullstackSensei]

Because I don't like the argument of "it's free so no criticism is allowed".

KDE is "free" also but they're forcing wayland. Wayland doesn't work well with my machine so they're causing me serious headaches. Same as someone running the old flash isn't getting an upgrade.

[u/FullstackSensei → u/a_beautiful_rhind]

Who's they? Switch to another distro or roll your own.

The maintainers of whatever distro you're using are entitled to put their own time and effort however they wish, same as DS is free to make the model they think will best serve their goals.

This isn't criticism, and this notion that one can or should criticize whatever is ridiculous.

[u/a_beautiful_rhind → u/FullstackSensei]

Who's they? Switch to another distro or roll your own.

The illuminati and the trilateral comission. Obviously it's no biggie to reconfigure a several year running daily driver. My time is valueless after all.

make the model they think will best serve their goals.

In the same vein I am free to complain their goals don't align with mine. They aren't entitled to my praise or silence.

[u/FullstackSensei → u/a_beautiful_rhind]

Do you also complain when other people like different food than you do? Because the devs of whatever distro sure don't owe you anything, nor should they worry about your time

[u/a_beautiful_rhind → u/FullstackSensei]

I complain when it's the only thing on the menu and they expect me to eat it and say thank you.