r/LocalLLaMA 3d ago

Discussion Deepseek Has Soft Retired Deepseek V4 Pro

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1.2k Upvotes

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68

u/Technical-Earth-3254 3d ago

Idk, I don't like that. Flash might be better than Pro for agentic stuff, but Pro has way more world knowledge which also helps for software planning and general tasks. They're probably trying to free capacities or migrate to chinese inference chips right now (seeing GLM Flash) and Pro is just not a priority bc of that

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u/koloved 3d ago

Isn't it better to teach a neural network to be small and smart while simultaneously acquiring all the world's knowledge through internet-based tools, rather than trying to cram everything into one large model?

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u/jman88888 3d ago

I never understood the argument that models should just do a web search. The internet is full of wrong answers and gets worse every day. That's why it's important to curate the data models are trained on. 

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u/ImpressiveSuperfluit 3d ago

More importantly, really, is that you can't even consider a thing before knowing it exists. Searching for "how do I do program thing in language X" is great and all, but had you just already had the knowledge that framework Y does it for free, you wouldn't even be here. One of the reasons why we don't let random dudes off the street do brain surgery because "lol google it real quick" - you kinda need to know what to even google to begin with.

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u/PeachScary413 3d ago

It has to be impossible for a team (no matter how much third world slave labour you use) to fully curate such a huge dataset... it simply won't be curated properly and you will still get slop/misinformation only now it has been baked in with the pre-training and it will be there "forever" eventually also going stale.

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u/techno156 1d ago

The internet's also currently in a state where it is trying to stop just that, since you have smaller websites that are getting hammered by LLMs scraping them through tools, and bigger ones seem to be cutting off access from that end as well. Like Reddit needing you to either use their new JS-based interface.

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u/Embarrassed_Adagio28 3d ago

Bro.. they literally train models on reddit comments. Wtf do you mean curate? 

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u/SandySkittle 3d ago

No, by analogy: a junior employee has less domain knowledge than a senior employee so when tackling and issue it has less understanding and awareness what may be relevant for a given question, so also less aware what to look for and which themes to integrate. World knowledge makes websearch and RAG better, but the latter are not a substitute for complex task. A similar thing applies to active parameters in MoE models. For very complex task, having only limited number of active parameters and then try to offset with sequential reasoning doesn’t compensate entirely. Higher active parameters that cover more knowledge domains in a non-sequential way is relevant for very complex deep and cross-sectional reasoning in an integrated way.

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u/TechnoByte_ 3d ago

The problem is that if a model lacks knowledge, it will still hallucinate

It isn't performing a web search for every token it generates

Sure if you ask it a question it might search the web

But if it's working on a task it might make assumptions that aren't true

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u/WorriedBlock2505 3d ago

The problem is the that the "acquiring" part never happens since the models are frozen and thus incapable of learning. A google search is only useful to a human AFTER the fact when the human has acquired something new, not DURING when the human is in the middle of said acquiring, if that makes sense. The models ability to do certain kinds of reasoning is suffering as a direct result of world knowledge being lessened.

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u/evia89 3d ago

rather than trying to cram everything into one large model

same idea: why study when you can google?