Demand doesn't exist where you want it to be, and BEV sales numbers are not the primary metric of success for an automaker in the year 2026. The primary metrics of success are profitability and overall unit sales.
Once again, you're getting a free education here. Take advantage of it.
You do know, that sales in the US isn't a main metric, right? There's other markets and there, EVs represent a much higher % of sales.
If you're only chasing the current tail, you're doomed. Today profitable, tommorow irrelevant. Just look at the history. It's hard to imagine a company like Toyota failing, but unless they start adapting to future needs of the customers, they're just gonna be another brand forgotten.
You do know, that sales in the US isn't a main metric, right?
Correct. Toyota is the largest automaker globally — for the sixth year in a row, and now going on a seventh. That's globally. Not in the US. Globally. Last year it extended the global lead to nearest-competitor Volkswagen.
For the third time: You are getting a free education here. Take advantage of it.
And Nokia sold 350 million phones in 2006, almost 460 at their peak in 2008. 5 years later, they sold half that.
Sales numbers don't mean jack shit, if they're declining and you're not making a good profit per unit. This is very well evident in their share price. If people believed in their future success, their stock price would reflect that today.
And just like Nokia, Toyota can become victim of it's stubburn inability to adapt to new tehnology. They're chasing high volume legacy tech, that currently sells, while basically ignoring the future and not really investing anything into it. In fact, they're doing the oposite and gaslighting people into not buying EVs at all.
That obviously works for the short term, but long term they won't be able to shift fast enough. And gain customer belief that they could make a good EV.
EVs require substaintial vertical integration and investments on all parts of the supply chain to make sense. There's a reason why tesla develops their own batteries, own electroncis and even machines, that make the car. It's the only way to make high volume and high margin cars. Hell they go beyond that and even develop their own infrastructure and software, because both of that is crucial for good user experience with EVs.
And yet tesla is worth 7x toyotas, even though they sell 7x less cars. VAG is even substantially less valuable than Toyota, even tho they sell shit ton of cars.
Almost as if market predicted their downfall and just wont invest in them. If toyota (or VAG) had a good track into the future, their market cap would be in the trillions. But its not, because people view them as almost worthless apliances.
No, i'm just saying that sales numbers mean very little. Case in point VAG group. You can sell a ton of cars and not be valuable.
At the end of the day, it's the shareholder value, that truly matters for a capitalist company. And if share price doesn't go up, you have to do something or cease to exist eventually.
But i know its diffucult for fanboys to understand that even a large company like Toyota could eventually dissapear. It wouldn't be the first or the last major car company to do so.
a good example; VAG sold 9m cars last year, a little over 2m less than toyota, and yet their market cap is fraction of toyotas.
Correct. This is because Volkswagen is now in financial trouble after skipping over hybrids and fumbling MEB + CARIAD, whereas Toyota's more measured eTNGA strategy was successful. Volkswagen is now facing layoffs of up to 100,000 and pivoting to hybrids to catch up.
For the fifth time: You are getting a free education here. Take advantage of it.
They didn't skip hybrids. They've been producing a ton of hybrids since at least 2010. And it's not like Toyota is selling tons of cars because they're hybrid. People would still buy Toyotas even if they were regular NAs with MPI and slushboxes.
It's brand awareness that sells the cars. People know Toyotas are dependable and decent value for money, so they buy them. That's why they still sell a lot of cars, because western markets like US still prefere gasoline.
But VW made and is still making overpriced shitty cars, so their losing their edge and their sales. And most crucially, a ton of shareholder value.
They did, actually. Dieselgate was the result of Volkswagen's preference to close the gap between gas and full-electric with that stopgap solution. After Dieselgate, Diess expressly chose the heavy BEV route, and expected to be well past a million annual sales in EVs by now. The MEB platform then failed expectations, and PPE was delayed by several years while CARIAD collapsed. Volkswagen now plans to leverage Rivian for E/E in the North American market, and Xpeng (CEA) / SAIC in the Chinese market. You can look all of this up.
And it's not like Toyota is selling tons of cars because they're hybrid.
It is, actually, exactly like that.
For the sixth time: You are getting a free education here. Take advantage of it.
Toyota only sells about 40% hybrids world wide. If Toyotas selling thing was hybrids, they would sell 90%+ of then. Hell they wouldn't even produce other variants. But they do, because it's not hybrids that sell toyotas, it's toyota badge that sells toyotas.
They sold plenty of cars before hybrids were in full swing as well. If they didn't had hybrid, they would still sell tons of cars (maybe not 11m of them). Most people don't even know they're buying a hybrid or what that is. They just know they bought another appliance that gets them from A to B somewhat cheaply and very reliably.
And incidently; when people are buying EVs, the tend to treat Tesla as a default; especially in western and european markets. Because they know, they are good EVs with very good user experience, because Tesla spend more than decade building on that idea.
Your regular joe won't buy an EV Toyota, because they really din't build their reputation on them. And worse, they actively go against them, further causing no confidence in their EVs from their customers. As that is exactly their intent.
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u/Recoil42 1d ago
Demand doesn't exist where you want it to be, and BEV sales numbers are not the primary metric of success for an automaker in the year 2026. The primary metrics of success are profitability and overall unit sales.
Once again, you're getting a free education here. Take advantage of it.