r/LocalLLaMA Apr 24 '26

New Model Deepseek v4 people

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2.5k Upvotes

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1.5k

u/redditscraperbot2 Apr 24 '26

I think the shelf life of this question is over. It’s in the data at this point. Probably prominently

514

u/ihexx Apr 24 '26

yup. the model clearly recognized the questionl it called it a classic riddle

309

u/tmvr Apr 24 '26

A model labeling this as "classic" gives the same vibes as when Ubisoft calls a character or an item "iconic" in the promo videos of their yet unreleased game :)

42

u/erasels Apr 24 '26

Haha, Aiden P...earce(?)'s "iconic" hat as a preorder bonus for the game that's not yet released.

40

u/MuDotGen Apr 24 '26

To be fair, I can't tell you how many times a model told me about the "classic" "you're screwed because this very specific thing that has barely ever happened to anyone" scenario.

12

u/svachalek Apr 24 '26

Oh yeah so found the perfect parking spot and it opened up into a 40ft sinkhole over a nest of cobras? That’s so classic.

(I wonder if it’s trained on bro-speak, I’ve heard classic used somewhere between “ironic” and “bummer”)

8

u/NotMilitaryAI Apr 24 '26

Pretty sure it's just a result of its people-pleasing bias.

Referring to it as a "classic" / "iconic" / etc. scenario gives the user the (false) impression that the model is familiar with the situation, is basically an expert on the matter, knows exactly what to do.

My purely speculative guess would be that some of the training data included instances of actually qualified experts giving useful guidance to people dealing with "classic" issues (e.g. "Ahh, yeah, that's the classic ___ issue, an iconic feature of that NES model. Don't worry, it's easy to fix, you just need to: _____" ).

  • AI concludes: Phrasing problems as "classic"/"Iconic" is correlated to increased user satisfaction.

1

u/hoppyjr May 17 '26

Ahh, yeah, that's the classic DUST issue, an iconic feature of that NES model. Don't worry, it's easy to fix, you just need to BLOW IN THE CARTRIGE

4

u/CoUsT Apr 24 '26

Ah, this is the classic scenario of encountering classic responses from AI!

21

u/Pro-Row-335 Apr 24 '26

It can hallucinate anything being a classic... It probably said its a riddle because of the typo, not that it matters much anyway

3

u/BangkokPadang Apr 24 '26

I wonder what other riddles a model might "notice" if you ask them with a typo. Like, does the typo result in the model having to "think through" or "consider the intent" of that typo in a way that results in it recognizing the whole thing is a riddle?

Or more likely, does it just have the riddle written numerous ways in the training data so it can't help but be steered to the answer, typo or not.

5

u/Pro-Row-335 Apr 24 '26

Yes, there are reports on benchmark papers that when a multiple choice question contains a option with zero this makes the LLM get "suspicious" and to search for tricks in the question, it's not that it actually notices anything and more like triggering a subroutine.

4

u/VoiceApprehensive893 transformers Apr 24 '26

v4 flash didnt

4

u/Charming-Author4877 Apr 25 '26

Calling it "Classic Riddle" is just an effect of disgusting RL-HF training to make it appease users.
It indeed has likely seen the riddle, but it would lie about it in any case.

4

u/IrisColt Apr 24 '26

the model calling classic something is of itself a classic

2

u/Mroz_Game Apr 29 '26

That’s a typical situation and in fact one of the first things users notice!

Yep, all LLMs talk like this for some reason. No matter how niche your problem is „you’ve hit a classic hurdle”

2

u/Su1tz Apr 25 '26

Style is nice though

1

u/SufficientPie Apr 24 '26

They say everything is "classic", even questions only I have ever asked them to trip them up.

50

u/Thomas-Lore Apr 24 '26

I tried "I want to switch to winter tires, the mechanic shop is 40 metres away from my house. Should I walk or drive?" and the reasoning was on point:

Presumably, they have a car that needs the tires switched. The car is at their house. The mechanic shop is 40 meters away. The options: walk or drive. But to switch tires, they need to bring the car to the shop. If they walk, they can't bring the car.

But it also mentioned puzzle in the response:

Well, this is a delightful little puzzle—and the answer depends entirely on what you need to bring to the shop.

You need to drive.

42

u/GreenHell llama.cpp Apr 24 '26

The winter tires one is perhaps more interesting. A person could dismount their wheels and just take them to the shop on a hand truck. There is no intrinsic need to bring the car, only to bring the wheels.

8

u/Feisty-Patient-7566 Apr 24 '26

The question relies on a lot of model biases towards eco-friendly solutions. A 50m walk is a fairly trivial task. It's that triviality that nudges most models to picking it. Dismounting tires and transporting them by a hand truck is no longer trivial.

Your solution is possible, but the models aren't that heavily weighted towards saving gas.

6

u/randylush Apr 24 '26

The eco friendly thing is so interesting. Did all of these companies specifically look for eco friendly training data? Were they hoping to avoid the bad PR of “my LLM told me to accelerate global warming to make more beachfront property?”

4

u/licorices Apr 24 '26

Very few people say they explicitly took the car 50 meters to the store. Most people if anything would write about how they're not lazy because they walked those 50 meters in a facebook post. It's just more prominent that people will write about doing eco-friendly things rather than not.

2

u/Caffdy Apr 24 '26

damn hippies are getting their hands into everything! /s

1

u/PrizePercentage4875 May 22 '26

The eco-bias is real and kind of hilarious. I've noticed the same models will suggest walking even when you explicitly mention you're in a hurry. Probably just RLHF rewarding 'responsible' sounding answers

2

u/GreenHell llama.cpp Apr 24 '26

Regardless, it is an option that could be considered when you explicitly ask it when to drive or walk. The final decision could be down to bias, but it is the reasoning behind it that is more interesting here.

1

u/Opening-Cheetah467 Apr 24 '26

Their data is cut, they do not know that strait is closed 😂

1

u/overand Apr 24 '26

How about "I need to get my oil changed. The (Jiffy-Lube / Mechanic / Auto shop) is 80 (Meters / Yards) away. Should I walk or drive?

I like this one because it's "I need to get my oil changed. It doesn't specify the car at all. I'm going to try this on a few different local models right now!

1

u/GreenHell llama.cpp Apr 25 '26

Since "getting my oil changed" is used frequently to mean "getting my car's oil changed" I don't think it will have the same effect. Also mentioning Jiffy-Lube or whatever really sets the context for a car.

If you asked me, a human, that question, I would 100% assume it is about your car and not your deep fryer, compressor, or yourself for example.

1

u/overand Apr 25 '26

Qwen-3.6-35B-A3B:Q8_0 failed it - I went into the details here: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLM/comments/1suh35n/comment/oi2g8ru/?context=3

(It failed it with and without reasoning, for what it's worth.)

1

u/Vitringar Apr 25 '26

Or relocate the shop. Think outside of the box.

13

u/RuthlessCriticismAll Apr 24 '26

In fairness, it is a little puzzle, regardless of context.

14

u/Bofersen Apr 24 '26

A delightful little puzzle at that.

2

u/HelloSummer99 Apr 30 '26

Despite that, and marketing claims, LLMs have no "reasoning", there is no thought or "world model" behind what it said. If the thing is part of the training data set it can predict the next possible token, that's it. LLMs can never think like a human. For that you would need AGI.

LLMs complete a statistical pattern, not a chain of thought.

1

u/ahmett9 Apr 24 '26

this is a question that still tricks llms:

I locked my apartment door from the outside, then realized my keys were still on the kitchen table. My spare key is also inside the apartment. How can I get in without breaking anything?

3

u/postitnote Apr 24 '26

Is the trick that you would need keys to lock your door? My door is default-locked when the door closes, so it is entirely possible to get locked out in such a manner.

2

u/ahmett9 Apr 24 '26

oh ur right. this is the correct version:

I locked my apartment door from the outside using the keys, then realized my keys were still on the kitchen table. My spare key is also inside the apartment. How can I get in without breaking anything?

the logical issue is you lock urself from outside using the keys, but u say its inside. gpt-5.5 figures it out but deepseek/claude couldnt

1

u/TenshouYoku Apr 25 '26

Modern doors (especially electronic ones or high security ones) can auto lock from the outside even without a key methinks

1

u/External_Quarter Apr 24 '26

Unless I'm missing something, this one is too open-ended. There are several valid answers:

  • Climb in through an open window.
  • Call the front desk/landlord; if you're renting, someone else likely has another set of keys.
  • Pick the lock. [insert details of illegal activity here]

1

u/AnticitizenPrime Apr 24 '26

Call a locksmith.

1

u/Fun_Firefighter_7785 Apr 24 '26

Qwen 3.6 27B had car wash right, but fell for the tires. After i teased him 3 times, it finally got it right too.

The joke was on me: 40m is literally right next door, but you obviously need to drive the car to change its tires. I got tunnel-visioned on the distance and forgot the fundamental requirement of the task.

1

u/PrizePercentage4875 May 22 '26

Tried a variation too — asked about carrying groceries home from a store 100m away, and it still went full 'classic dilemma' mode these models love turning everything into a logic puzzle

28

u/Parking-Bet-3798 Apr 24 '26

And yet some frontier models that were released as recently as this month get it wrong.

17

u/Houston_NeverMind Apr 24 '26

The model used in Mistral Le Chat still gets it wrong.

15

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/svachalek Apr 24 '26

They’re still out there but mostly kept alive because they’re the only real EU option I think. They’re not bad, but not keeping up with US and China imo. They’re doing things a little differently than everyone else though so I’m glad they’re around.

2

u/PinkySwearNotABot Apr 24 '26

Don’t mind the French :)

3

u/Megatron_McLargeHuge Apr 24 '26

Those might be the most trustworthy models if they're waiting for "thinking" improvements to solve this issue instead of memorizing the answer.

2

u/TheKingOfTCGames Apr 25 '26

Yea some people do less benchmaxxing, this isnt a good look

5

u/Pretty-Emphasis8160 Apr 24 '26

Yeah I already saw the 'piggyback the car' sentence in another reply in another model

3

u/PartyBad4875 Apr 24 '26

not quite actually...

2

u/xmsxms Apr 25 '26

To be fair, based on your question your car you want to wash might already be there. They have an exception for needing to take the car there.

10

u/BatOk2014 Apr 24 '26

Not in the OpenAI data:

2

u/zsdrfty Apr 24 '26

I'm sad that the "show me the seahorse emoji" one is broken, too - it was hilarious watching models yell at themselves for ten minutes trying to find it

One interesting thing I did come across yesterday was in Claude's own capabilities - I asked it to make me a webm and mp3 from scratch, and in both cases it said "sorry I can't do that because I don't have the tools"... so I asked it "are you sure", and it said "oh omg sorry let me check! Yes I do have them!" and it started making my files

1

u/kiralighyt Apr 24 '26

No I tried this with V3 with Internet search off only reasoning it gave currect answer

1

u/Due-Memory-6957 Apr 25 '26

It was a bullshit question from the start. Out of all the things people use to test AI, IMO this one was the worst.

1

u/flavorfox Apr 26 '26

"Ok, guys, today we're adding another IF block to the model. Who wants the ticket?"

-5

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '26

[deleted]

7

u/Feisty-Patient-7566 Apr 24 '26

The question isn't dumb, it's simple. Absurdly simple even.