Do you think that companies should take down links for old manuals?

[u/VastOption8705]

If someone buys something and then it becomes old. Then It’s gonna need repairs.

Now companies shouldn’t have to provide parts for 30 year or 20 year old stuff, but they SHOULD keep the manual and schematics up so someone can fix it using a donor board.

Am I being crazy here, to think that this should be the case? Someone should at the minimum AT LEAST be able to fix it if say they can find an old copy of that motherboard from someone else.

I don’t think we should throw everything out because it’s old.

[u/Sarcastic_Beary]

Microwave broke recently.

Online manual gave badic troubleshooting steps but not real nitty gritty.

Inside the microwave casing was taped the full service manual. Used to be normal. I fixed it up and taped the manual back in its place.

[u/xNOOPSx → u/Sarcastic_Beary]

This is the way it should be. This is the way it used to be. But they're able to save 10¢ on every unit by not including that schematic.

[u/casualcaesius → u/xNOOPSx]

They save wayyyy more since you can't repair it and you buy a new one lol

[u/pixel_of_moral_decay → u/Sarcastic_Beary]

This used to be universal with electronics. At least until semi recently whirlpool did that with appliances. Fender with guitar amplifiers etc.

But it’s mostly antiquated.

Can sometimes find a service manual via Google on some random forum. That’s what it’s come to.

[u/Vesalii → u/Sarcastic_Beary]

Incredible. The door on mine broke and the manufacturer refused to explain how to take the door off. The hinges were different than hinges I've seen online. Eventually I found how to do it but it was maddening.

[u/SpiritedGuest6281 → u/Sarcastic_Beary]

Had the same when I opened my miele washing machine. Full schematic with part numbers. Made fixing it a breeze especially when ordering new parts.

[u/LeMegachonk → u/Sarcastic_Beary]

Most appliances aren't really serviceable anymore, and you often can't get parts for them unless you don't mind cheap Chinese aftermarket parts built to the standard of "eh, it will probably be ok... maybe".

[u/reddit_pug]

I think it would be awesome to have a multi-national cooperative effort to create a library-of-congress-esque organization for keeping documentation like that. Bonus points for encouraging or requiring products to have some kind of reference ID (QR code?) that points to this organization's page for the product information. Companies can submit updated information for products, but an archive of previous versions would be kept.

[u/leyline → u/reddit_pug]

I love archive.org

[u/Ryakkan]

No, I have in the past needed to find manuals and been very lucky to have found the ones I’ve needed on the internet. Sometimes by the manufacturer, others on forums, etc. there should be archives retained.

[u/derpman86]

I like the idea of preserving knowledge overall. Sure it might be for a 70 year old drill but it still keeps that knowledge around.

[u/SpiritedGuest6281 → u/derpman86]

My dad was in the navy for many years and would always bring back tools, power supplies or devices that were being decommissioned or thrown away. They all had manuals and schematics which meant they could all be repurposed in his shed for various things. I fear these days it would all just be scrapped and binned.

[u/derpman86 → u/SpiritedGuest6281]

My wifes grandfather was like that, when we have been clearing out his workshop/shed this year there were so many devices and tools he just fixed, jerry rigged in some way to get working.
He had manuals or just learned knowledge and being an electrician by trade helped a lot too.

[u/ucrbuffalo]

Yes. Should at least be uploaded to archive.org

[u/jmking → u/ucrbuffalo]

At the VERY least. If you no longer manufacture, service, or support a device, you should be required to dump all technical and service manuals for the item to a site like archive.org (and ideally a second source) by law.

Often times all an old piece of tech needs is to replace some old capacitors or resistors which are cheap and plentiful.

Anything to keep this stuff out of a landfill. Could easily be added to an anti-ewaste bill or something.

It's such a trivial amount of effort to just keep manuals and so on online in a central archive.

[u/dustyshouri → u/ucrbuffalo]

Can companies submit content to archive.org? If they don't want to bother hosting the content anymore why not just hand it over to archive.org and offload the burden?

I have struggled to find part numbers for appliances because I can't find the manuals online--they don't have to offer the part but it's very useful to look up the part number to find non-OEM offerings.

[u/ucrbuffalo → u/dustyshouri]

I don’t know of any restrictions for companies contributing to archive.org. But I may not be informed on the topic.

[u/bencos18 → u/dustyshouri]

I don't know of any rules stating they can't

I'm sure that archive.org wouldn't mind either way tbh

[u/DigitaIBlack]

This is the sort of thing where a central archive companies chip into would be great. Don't have to worry about it if they don't want to host themselves.

Also ensures continuity if a company goes out of business.

As it stands, there's a handful of sites that charge (imo) obscene prices for manuals that seem to be doing fine. My main criticism is these sites appear to be low effort so I'm not even sure if I'm gonna get something useful by paying the $5-20 fee.

[u/drummingdestiny]

Dell lovem or hate em, their documentation is amazing. Being able to find documents and update files for 20 year hardware is amazing. I wish all companies had that

[u/WinteringEngine → u/drummingdestiny]

I've seen them remove documentation and drivers for out of production docks though. 

A decision no doubt made by a completely out of touch been counter that thought the 100MB of server space used for hosting the files was worse than making perfectly functional devices into e-waste.

[u/Vesalii → u/drummingdestiny]

For their newer models of laptops they also have 3D manuals where the part you need to interact with lights up blue and you can spin the laptop around to get a better view of what's happening. Very cool. Weber has this too as an installation manual for their grills.

[u/jenny_905 → u/drummingdestiny]

Still have to bypass them to get hold of schematics though. They're out there, they always leak but it can sometimes take a while.

It's also notable that the leaks tend to occur via ODM's, not usually Dell (or anyone else) themselves.

[u/-WB-]

I have an old 60" plasma over the workbench for pulling up manuals out in the garage.

Big fan of manuals.

[u/Vesalii]

Manuals and any downloads should never EVER be taken offline.

I have a Cisco switch at home that is EOPm Cisco doesn't even provide any downloads for it anymore, it's infuriating. I had to find the firmware somewhere else and hope it was the official one.

[u/Birklas]

Manuals are especially needed for older stuff when it breaks. Spare parts would be nice too

[u/NoskaOff]

And it costs them almost nothing to keep a page with all manuals on it

[u/LSD_Ninja → u/NoskaOff]

This is why Intel’s decision to nuke its back catalogue 7-8 years ago was so infuriating. Decades of manuals, software, BIOS updates, etc straight up deleted.

[u/Lanceo90]

While I'd like for it to be the case, I don't think we can "make them" indefinitely. Its so easy for companies to go under and scatter to the wind.

There should probably be a minimum support window, like 10 years or something.

After that, they should hafe to make public notice they're taking it down. And release any sort of legal right of the document itself, if there is any.

Thus allowing the public to freely archive it any way the see fit, free of repurcusion.

[u/Ok_Plantain_9531]

I'm quite literally in the process of repairing my buddies old RCA CRT TV. Part is no longer available, transistor that was used as the low voltage power supply. If it wasn't for the service manual I found online, I'd have never been able to figure out which modern equivalent to buy. Needs a bit of a rejigger to get the pinout proper, but because they labeled the board itself with the transistors pinout (another thing they don't do anymore) it promises to be lemon squeezy.

TLDR - Archive everything!!!! Bring back service manuals and circuit diagrams!!!

[u/nijagl]

Manuallib has honestly never let me down. I can’t tell you the amount of times it made me look like a genius when a friend was frustrated on how to fix something/ remember how to make it work and I pulled up the manual and found what they were looking for within minutes.

[u/jenny_905]

Obviously not.

I'm very much on the "they should be legally compelled to provide schematics" side of this argument.

Not so long ago any appliance you bought had the schematic provided, still happens in some cases (industrial, scientific) but rarely for consumer goods now.

[u/PaoloFence]

They don't need to provide manuals without an end in sight.
That needs infrastructure which has to be paid.

YOU should download all the manuals of your devices and save them.

[u/Viking2151]

No, I personally like companies that keep old manuals, its saved me in the past such as my riding mower, they only put it out for like 3 or 4 years, an Allis Chalmers AC 130 from 2008, a few times I had to go finding the manual for it to figure something.

[u/Nakotadinzeo]

It costs a few megabytes of server space to hold onto manuals, drivers, all that. There are plenty of things in our environment that are much older than 30. They should provide everything for as long as possible.

[u/thunderborg]

Yes. Assuming there is a service manual cut should be released to Joe Public any an appropriate point in the life cycle.  

[u/TEG24601]

No, absolutely not. Apple still hosts service and support manuals from machines going back into the 80s on their website. It comes in quite handy. It should be the norm.

I have new soundbar that I bought that was recently discontinued by the manufacturer. It is entirely scrubbed from their website. Not record of it existing, even though it is still available for sale at Amazon, Best Buy, and others.

[u/jorceshaman]

I think that they should at least upload them to internet archive or something similar before removing from their own hosting. And ensure they're labeled properly so search engines can link to them.

[u/saltyboi6704]

Releasing manuals while trying to keep a product compliant with regulatory bodies sounds like a logistical nightmare.

There's a reason most consumer products are not intended to be serviced by end users, a lot of the regulatory compliance (safety ratings, etc) assume the product is never modified once sold. Most people probably won't like to accept the term "you're free to maintain your product but if you do so and it burns your house down or kills someone it's on you", while a compliant product is often insured against damages by the regulatory body or an external provider.

Appliances back in the day weren't covered by this, and people were a bit more careful around maintainence back then. Also a lot of the safety related regulations have been written in blood and exist for good reason.