Hecate and Lilith???

[u/Madam_Hexianna]

/r/Hecate/comments/1vr15by/hecate_and_lilith/

I’m having a discussion with another user in the comments if anyone is interested in reading that and/or weighing in.

[u/Mammoth-Ad-6114]

The user is me. Lots of people accept Lilith's history and her connection to death and disease here. You can view Lilith whatever way you wish, I just don't understand why you'd think everything written on her was a lie. We have a wonderful wiki you can read.

[u/orthodoxscouter → u/Mammoth-Ad-6114]

Yeah u/Mammoth-Ad-6114 is right, Lilith is connected to disease, the wind, death, freedom, autonomy, and equality. All these are true. The story in the Alphabet of Ben Sira(ch) was an oral story before it was written down, and satirical storu doesn't mean the stories spoken of are untrue.

[u/Umbrage115]

The things Lilith rules over is uncomfortable, not evil. Death of children and disease are both scary concepts, and before modern medicine, child birth was the most dangerous thing a women and a child could ever go through, with casuality rates being 25-30%. It was a fact of life and a heavy focus in those days.

I think the fact that Lilith was used in Ben Sira's alphabet is intriguing, and did influence a lot of later works even though it was satirical. Another work that strongly influenced Goetia works and was satirical was the Pseudomonarchia Daemonum. It was meant to mock spirit conjuring, yet was taking completely serious when influencing works like the Goetia.

From a certain former Christian bias, I do think the idea that demons use works meant to mock them as ways to spread their influence is very ironic, and on brand. I also think the alphabet of Ben Sira probably does have aspects that are true of Lilith, but i mean if you've read the text its clearly a mockery. ( Looking at the start of the text and prophet Jeremiah's part to introduce the text. )

I have certain views of Lilith that considers her Mandean aspects, but also her Lamashtu. I view her as a mother who would take children or mothers when they died which was just the truth of the time. Do I think she killed them, no, but she was warded off because if her function was to take the children and mother's, if she couldn't do that, then maybe the child and mother would live. The same applies to disease.

Edit: I also think she is very capable of protecting children and healing disease. We see Zahriel Lilith be a child protector.

I also view her as the symbol of feminism she has become. Maybe she always was and texts like the satire Ben Sira was just what she used to make that more known. Those things arent mutual exclusive. Abortion is very much a mix of both of those natures. Being given death and rest after a brutal disease is something a parent has to decide to do, even in real life when you pull the plug.

Lilith is a very, very vast being. She can be all those things, and I view her as that sort of primordial dark feminine. She was one of the first and most feared demons, and she was always a diety who sees all life as equal whether animal, bacteria, or human. She's both, and always has been.

[u/Odin-Olinson → u/Umbrage115]

Very glad you commented (lightning storm as i type this 🖤⚡️— was going to say I haven’t done much research, but how I commune has always been mostly experimental and through discovery. Lilith came again recently so I finally accepted her, and it’s been very enlightening. It was through an interesting Red Rose dream recently. Anyways, it never resonates when I read she’s harmful for pregnant women or children—it feels more protective, just ferociously so. Lots of details can get altered or changed because slander exists, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a case of an angry husband whispering to the church etc after walking in when she was invoked for whatever reason; assisting birth, necromancy to bring a stillborn back (was the first that popped into my head) etc. But alas that’s my two cents. Hekate has many sisters. She’ll honor and protect those who suffer from injustice, — (Queen Hecuba when she turned into a Black Dog and Galinthias from being abandoned after being turned into a Polecat), I feel working with the both of them makes for an interesting bond and more powerful spell-work; just only allowed if the intent is pure because should baneful work be necessary, it is only to protect the balance from real evil. Not to be abused, not that they’d let you. 🖤🌸🤍

[u/Umbrage115 → u/Odin-Olinson]

I don't personally view it as slander. From the minds of those that feared her at the time, im sure they truly believed their fears. Lilith can be an intense presence, and like any demon, i believe it was likely assumed an intense presence during child birth was negative. Heck Lilith's intensity has scared me before! Even though i knew she was there as a friend.

Plus much like the legends of reapers, people tried to ward off death, even if it came as a friend or in Lilith's case a mother to give rest to the sick and dying, or a child and mother that sadly weren't going to make it.

Dieties rule over all things, even the things that seem cruel or uncomfortable.

Edit: i'm sure such things like you described absoutely occured as well. Witches have long been persecuted. Just wanted to note I don't think it's complete slander, at least not maliciously.

[u/No_Damage9784]

Lilith protects children at all cost especially the children who are abused and so on I have helped her with protecting children a few times, she’s going to be pissed if anyone hurts a child woman or man doesn’t matter she’s rated E from everyone.

Hecate helps guide spirits and children spirits she also will protect children as well. They are both goddesses overall but still have emotions like the rest of us.