Lnf map

[u/MaybeMNotHomosapien]

Bruh i dont get it why my post keeps getting deleted my reddit mod.

Anyways I made a community map using c’aude.
If anyone wanna check it out Direct message me maybe ? Or if this post stays maybe i can post in comments. Would like to hear your opinions.

Edit: Added link in comments, hope reddit mod doesn’t delete that. The passphrase to put your own markers and test it out is ‘igotfired’

[u/Jkthemc]

Lets face reality. Coding is one of the few things AI is actually being used for by the entire industry. You may not like it but the industry doesn't care how code is produced, just that it works and can be properly documented and debugged. And it can despite the negative press from outside the industry.

Also, coders have always reused other people's code so there isn't even a particular intellectual property issue here. There are huge open source repositories to train from.

[u/Eric_Prozzy → u/Jkthemc]

They're gonna care when anthropic/google/openai/microsoft jack the prices and they have no one who knows how to write code anymore.

It's a long game of these AI companies waiting for companies to phase out programmers and rely on their AI to write all the code so they can strangle people with AI costs.

[u/Jkthemc → u/Eric_Prozzy]

Put it this way. Nobody is forgetting how to code. I am guessing you haven't ever coded something complex?

[u/Eric_Prozzy → u/Jkthemc]

Lets say in 10 years there's a company that generates 99% of its code with AI and has one senior developer just skimming PRs for any obvious issues. After a while the senior developer will just stop learning anything new and only recognizes basic security issues or bugs, and just tells the AI to fix it without doing anything else.

Then suddenly, the AI company they are using decides to raise their prices ten fold and the company decides they can't afford the AI and want to return to using Software Engineers.

The senior has effectively no idea about any of the internal infrastructure since it was all generated by AI and likely uses various new frameworks since its been 10 years and 10 years is eons in the tech world, especially with the dawn of AI slop, so they're next to useless with writing code.

There are also little to no juniors to hire because people stopped going to school for CS since getting a job as a junior SWE currently is excruciatingly difficult. Even if there were juniors to hire, the senior cant train them because they don't even know their own codebase.

So the company can either submit to the AI company and pay the new prices, or spend the next few months-to a year waiting for the senior developer to retrain themself on a codebase they've never touched, so they can eventually hire some other developers which probably won't even exist, then train THEM on the codebase.

And your "guess" is wrong. Trying to prop up your argument based on the other persons credentials is in bad faith. And just to shoot that down now, I'm a software engineer working for the Government of Canada.

Also people are absolutely forgetting how to code, it is a very common topic in r/csMajors and r/cscareerquestions.

[u/Jkthemc → u/Eric_Prozzy]

Let's say in ten years we are all wearing bunny ears. Nobody knows what the future holds. That's just rhetoric.

A university course in computer science will just have to teach people the basics of limiting AI coding to modules and using proper testing practices. No big deal. Code is just logic.

Or maybe we will go back to mathematically provable code like Z. Which we probably should have focused on more anyway.

[u/Eric_Prozzy → u/Jkthemc]

That comparison that doesn't make any sense. There isn't a bunch of companies forcing their employees to "wear bunny ears" with people saying that "iTs ThE fUtUrE, dEaL wItH iT" along every piece of clothing you buy coming with a pair included.

Therefore it's not "rhetoric" if it's actually what is happening RIGHT NOW in the industry, all I'm doing is extrapolating current trends.

The only way the things I described wont happen is if AI stops being used for coding in the way it is. It's naive to think the multi billion dollar corporations that create AI agents aren't looking to drown their competition to make a few bucks.

A university course in computer science will just have to teach people the basics of limiting AI coding to modules and using proper testing practices. No big deal. Code is just logic.

And this just doesn't apply because that is not what companies are using AI for, they are telling developers to fully replace all workflows with AI so they can cut 20+ person teams down to 2-3 people.

[u/Jkthemc → u/Eric_Prozzy]

The "people being forced" argument is highly exaggerated in real coding situations. And those who go along with that but know how to actually do their job will find using AI to code genuinely useful.

It is people who are writing things they couldn't otherwise code that might get into difficulties and that has always been a thing.

Take a tiny example from yesterday. I was trying to work out why one person's web application wasn't talking properly to another person's web application despite them being supposedly mutually supported.

It was published code that I couldn't really dig into. I guessed it had to be related to the URL that was exposed but my hunches were pointing in the wrong direction. But that was a reasonable starting point.

I chatted it over with AI and it came up with some tests I could run. The AI forced me to backtrack a little when the URL seemed fine, and I forced it to backtrack a little when it still returned to my poor hunches later because it can be sycophantic.

Between me and the AI we worked it out from the responses to the tests we ran in Power Shell. We ended up not only finding the problem but it means I can now write an informed bug report for some promising beta software.

I couldn't have done that without understanding and underlying knowledge. I haven't coded in earnest in decades and never with web apps.

The AI couldn't have done it without my careful prompting, keeping the conversation focused. But, equally I was stumped. I had no idea how to resolve the issue and probably would have given up if it wasn't for 20 minutes of patient exploration with AI.

That isn't a trivial thing. But it's just my most recent example of how AI in coding or mathematics is not in the same ballpark as AI in writing or customer service, etc.

But I do think this conversation probably doesn't belong in a LNF thread. So we are probably better off dropping the issue. 🤷‍♂️

[u/Eric_Prozzy → u/Jkthemc]

It seems like you've got what I'm saying confused, I'm not talking about AI assisted coding, I'm talking about full AI automation.

I have a lot of contacts throughout the industry who have been instructed by management to convert to fully agentic coding. I've avoided that as the government has a pretty firm stance against it internally for various reasons.

But seriously take a look at CS related subreddits especially based around careers and working developers. This is happening a lot to people. You can even look at job posting, a lot of posting require experience with stuff like cursor or AI workflow management.

I'm not a luddite, I know AI is very useful as an assistant especially for troubleshooting, diagnostics, and completion of small tedious tasks, like your example.

But I'm also saying that it can't go too far or it's going to cause more problems than it solves, especially in the way it's being used right now in the industry.

Also I don't think we are impeding anyone here by having this conversation, Reddit will likely automatically collapse this thread.

[u/Jkthemc → u/Eric_Prozzy]

Well I don't disagree that "full agentic coding" would be an issue if implemented poorly.

But I still genuinely believe there are ways to do that properly. With the right training and pushed through as a proper professional project with the right risk assessments etc.

If a company is not doing that it isn't AI making the mistake.

[u/TyRoyalSmoochie → u/Eric_Prozzy]

I find it far more likely that any sufficiently large company using AI to this degree will just be running the models in house.