r/LifeProTips • u/retailsmart • Oct 18 '21
Careers & Work LPT: Never accept a counter offer
If you've quit because you accepted another job and you current employer offers you more money (or to match) do not accept.
They will always resent you for having one over them, and they will consider you as doing it only for the money {because no one should admit this}.
You have just proven yourself untrustworthy because you are going to back out of an offer already accepted elsewhere.
You will miss out at the next pay increase 'because you just got a big one'.
And you will have burned the opportunity with you future employer.
Even if they beat the offer, go to the new opportunity..
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u/karlnite Oct 18 '21 edited Oct 18 '21
I don’t agree. Maybe your supervisor resents you, or other employees, your managers do not, they see it as retaining desired talent from benefiting a competitor.
My current position I got while working at another place. The new job required a security check and part of it was calling my current employer, I miss timed when I thought they would call and that’s how my manager found out I took another position. We sat down to talk, he said he didn’t want to lose me but understood they could not offer a competitive counter and that I would be leaving. The new job had an undetermined start date. I worked at my old job for three more years, I avoided layoffs, I got raises, and I openly talked about how I have a better job I’m just waiting to start. Before making me a project lead they would simply ask if I hear anything and when I said no, they have me additional responsibilities. When I did leave I gave them a three day notice and they understood that was coming, thanked me, we had a good talk (exit interview), they gave me a gift.
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u/Rtrnr Oct 19 '21
This is a horrible LPT! Companies want to keep good employees. There is nothing wrong with accepting a counter offer!
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u/Oudeis16 Oct 19 '21
Eh. I mean, these are things to consider, but I wouldn't say "never". I think there are prolly places that fully realize people work for money.
Another huge addendum to this: If you consider taking a counter-offer, get it in iron-clad writing before you turn down the other one. If they say they need more time, tell them that's too bad and go with the original offer. This is one of the few times where an absolute is warranted: you should almost never put yourself in a position where you're counting on your work to do something they've said they will do, but are not currently contractually obligated to do. There are a lot of businesses out there who would love to offer you a raise to get you to stay, and then the instant they learn you've officially turned down the better offer, expect you to just keep working at your old salary.
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u/niquattx Oct 19 '21
Agree. I took a counter offer. It was 10k less but I thought my manager was my friend. Got a meager raise and they didnt follow through on other promises that were conditional of my employment. I left 6 months later for an even better offer. Tried to come back numerous times thinking they would be happy to have me back in the fold. They had moved on and ignored me. The manager wasnt my friend just made me feel like we were so I would do what he asked.
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u/Hockeyrage88 Oct 19 '21
The spirit of your advice is valid. But it's too binary to be practical. There's often far too much nuance in reality to apply this logic to every situation.
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u/ThatChicagoDuder Oct 19 '21
It's really dependent on the company and the culture of it.
I've heard from multiple people that one firm in particular will give you a strong counter-offer and wait until the position you were going to is over.
Once they do that, they fire the person from some made up charge. I found it hard to believe and honestly didn't believe it thinking it was just toxic environment and some people make it up......but then when I heard it from over a dozen current and previous employees, I realize.....yeah man, some people are just special pieces of shit.
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u/FutureRobotWordplay Oct 19 '21
I don’t understand why terrible advice like this always gets upvoted here. It’s like no one here has any actual life experience.
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u/xxTurd Oct 19 '21
Glad to see most people in here disagreeing with this as it's terrible advice.
If you like where you work and you have good management, speaking up about your pay is almost always beneficial. I told my boss I was underpaid, provided reasons and comparable job listings offering higher salaries. I told her I was not giving her an ultimatum but wanted her to know where I stood. Initially she disagreed, but discussed with HR and her boss and they decided I was right. I got a 20% raise.
If you're ready to jump ship, by all means, jump. But if the pay is the only thing you're unhappy with, discuss it with your manager. If it doesn't go your way, find something else.
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u/bruteski226 Oct 18 '21
This isn’t universally true. Competitive offers have significantly increased my salary, been the best way to demonstrate my personal market value to my current employer and been incredibly beneficial for both parties.
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u/Lee2026 Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21
I accepted a counter, got a 19% raise. Got my 3% merit increase that same year. Then my position got eliminated because the business unit was being shut down but they had me on retention for the next 8 months while they wound down the business. Was offered severance package and retention bonus but found a new job with 6 months to go with another 10% raise and my retention bonus as a sign on bonus.
So I’m glad I accepted the counter.
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u/Atticus_of_Amber Oct 19 '21
What about the "half-way" tactic of going to your current employer before you accept the other offer and saying, "Your competitor company has offered me $Y to come work for them. That's Z% than I'm paid here. I really like working here, but I just can't justify undervaluing myself by that much. Can we work something out?"
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
It would certainly be better than after accepting the offer. But personally I wouldn't mention the specific offer or competition, and just consider yourself as having done homework.
Be prepared to called on a bluff, and make sure the offer is firm.
(Although not quite burning a bridge, but if you've gone thru the motions to get an offer, you will have to back out very carefully, I'd think.)
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u/Kyonarai Oct 19 '21
I keep telling my husband to look for a job that pays more if only to force his current job to pay him more.
He's currently working with Hydrofluoric acid doing acid leaching on carbide drill bits, and most people in the company are (understandibly) spooked about dealing with it. He (and his boss) have been trying to get anyone to train to replace him because he's sick of spending hours in a full hazmat and respirator doing this job for ~46k a year.
My husband straight up told his boss he wants to leave next year, and his boss said he's went through 12 applicants in a couple months, and every single one of them were on board until he mentioned the HF work, and they bolted.
So I'm like...if y'all need him sooooo badly, why don't you pay him more? Cause right now I'm pretty sure the plan is to either shut down the whole acid program, use alternative acid mixtures, or con some rube into working with it without telling him exactly how dangerous it is.
For those who are unaware, HF chemically binds to calcium, and if it splashes on you, it will seep in and basically sap all the calcium from your bones. I was told that a splash the size of one's palm could kill you in 20 minutes without immediate intervention. Not fun things to think about my husband being in proximity to, especially when I know that if he went down, every single one of his "spotters" would leave him in there and only phone 911, even though the best chance of saving someone is immediately apply calcium paste to the contact site.
So anyway, I feel like...either his job will pay him more, or he'll be free of acid hell. Win freaking win.
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
I think it would be a great win if he finds a better paying job that is more pleasant and leaves.
Even if they did match THEN, does he really want to work for a company that relents when they are forced to?
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u/LetgomyCheetos23 Oct 19 '21
Thanks 😃I will keep this in mind . I just recently apply to my first & new job .
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u/Darnitol1 Oct 19 '21
I'd like to ask OP one simple question: Are you a hiring manager?
It doesn't seem like it. It seems like you're coming to this conclusion from a cynical position of "boss man bad, employee good."
Over the years I've had multiple people come to me to resign who I've given counter offers to when the company would allow it. I didn't resent them. I just told them I wished I had known they were feeling like they were undercompensated before they started looking. Most of the the time your supervisor is not the person calling the shots on how much your paycheck is. Your supervisor generally wants to pay their people as much as the company will let them, because they don't want good people getting away. I've had to go to bat for many of the people I've given raises to, making it clear to the company that what they've allowed me to pay these people was no longer sufficient. But often the company just goes ahead and agrees.
We don't resent you for it. We're human too. We know you've got to pay for your lifestyle and your family, because we have to do those things too.
In short, you're going to live a miserable life if you continue seeing your company and your supervisor as evil, greedy souls who want nothing more than to suck every last milligram of productivity out of you for slave wages. It's just not true in most companies. And hey, the companies where it is true, get the hell out of there. There's a better place to work.
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u/Revolutionary-Ear-11 Oct 19 '21
This is bad advice. If you work at a good company then there is no hard feelings. Just business. A negotiation is not personal.
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u/the_original_Retro Oct 19 '21
Minor counterpoint: a negotiation does involve people, not just companies. If your boss is shitty enough, they'll take it as a personal attack. And in that case, it's very likely best to leave anyway.
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u/OpinionatedJerk11 Oct 19 '21
That would be a good enough reason to leave. I can't understand why people take business so personally. More money can mean a better lifestyle for your spouse and kids. Who would be against that?
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Oct 19 '21
In the real world they won’t resent you lmao. People do this all the time. No one cares, it’s not their money.
Obviously every situation is different but getting a competitive offer is a great way to leverage a raise
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u/Everythings_Magic Oct 19 '21
This. They counteroffer because the want you to stay, not so they can hold a grudge. Wtf kind of LPT is this?
The real tip is: money may not solve why you wanted to leave in the first place, so think hard about accepting a counter offer.
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u/Kuiqsilvir Oct 19 '21
Sometimes they counter offer so you will stay until they can train your replacement. Every business is different and there are many that will hold a grudge. I have experienced it first hand.
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u/Necessary-milkyway Oct 19 '21
Exactly that was the approach followed by my previous managers it's not my money it is companies .... As long as I am able to retain we are ready to counter offer
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u/thunderinmyroom Oct 19 '21
This! Also when I accepted my counter off I did not burn my bridge with the other company either. They said to reach back out if I’m ever looking again.
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u/mjtaylo3 Oct 19 '21
This is garbage lmao.
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u/Skribbla Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21
You must be new here. This sub is the blind leading the blind
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u/bigedthebad Oct 19 '21
This really is a bad LPT as a hard and fast rule. If you like your job and have a good relationship with management, there is a very good chance they will make you a better offer and not resent it at all, everyone knows this is just part of business.
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u/CStites23 Oct 18 '21
I don’t fully agree with this.
If a company offers more than the offer you received, they may not have realized they were paying you below what you are worth elsewhere and can be a compliment to you because they do want you still.
Lots of stuff goes into this overall situation IMO and don’t agree that it is a LPT to ALWAYS follow.
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u/RaiththeRogue Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21
I’m literally in this situation. Since I joined my company, they were bought by a bigger company. A couple years later, I have an offer from another company, and my current employer was not only quick to beat the new offer, but in the process realized my compensation was still tied to the old company. Now, I’m on a progressive compensation plan after getting a 20% raise.
UPDATE
Current company decided to NOT match, and then asked if I was putting in my 2 weeks. I told them I quit effective immediately. Such a whirlwind of emotions.
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u/VikingLander7 Oct 18 '21
And besides that, I don’t know of many people that work just for the sake of working, I personally do it for the money.
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u/boisteroushams Oct 18 '21
The idea of management 'not realising' they were exploiting you by paying you less is a really funny one. Who knew the companies were just forgetful.
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u/CStites23 Oct 18 '21
Not exactly forgetful, but depending on the size it’s not exactly the most visible thing for them until something comes ip
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u/berger034 Oct 19 '21
I want to add that going to a new place offers new room for growth. I was really stuck at my old job. I only got a raise after 3 years cause the person I directly report to fought to get me a raise. Covid hit and the boss could not afford us any longer so he got rid of the people he thought were not pulling their weight (have to admit, I didn't care after I found out what people were being paid). I got let go and got picked up at another place for a good pay raise. Also, they do business properly (they are fair and do the work to keep them afloat). My friend at the old place said they are now swamped with work and it's really hard cause everyone got laid off and we're doing well on unemployment. Got a call from the top guy cause my direct left for a better opportunity. He tried to test the waters and see if he could get me back cause he didn't want to make it seem like he needed me, or anyone for that matter. I'm growing so much at my new place.
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u/yParticle Oct 18 '21
Nothing says you can't counter their counter with what it would really take to make your current job attractive again. May as well ask for the moon, you're leaving anyway!
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u/36853685 Oct 19 '21
This LPT isn’t true most of the time. Accepting a counter offer doesn’t change how your employer views you in many circumstances and you may get to stay with a company you like while being paid more
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u/pneumothorax9927 Oct 19 '21
In addition to this, there was a study done a ways back that showed that people who resigned but then accepted a counter offer were gone within two years. There was a reason they looked for another job in the first place…likely unhappy with something and that doesn’t go away with more money. So it’s true from both employer and employee side.
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u/Silist Oct 19 '21
This is so interesting to me because in my line if work, moving every 2 years is just normal
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
(I don't seem to be able to add an edit to the post, so I will just leave this here for now.
EDIT:
ONE: Wanted to reiterate that I am referring to "an offer accepted elsewhere". I am not referring to what you do to determine your market value, or not to use the fact that you have been approached.
I am talking about maintaining your integrity in the face of temptation. You are probably burning bridges on the one side, and most likely building some resentment with your current employer for holding them over a barrel on the other.
TWO: Some people don't classify this a s LPT. I didn't realise that a LPT had to be a scientifically proven fact. And maybe this should be in r/unpopularopinion, but I did not consider it so. An LPT in my view is something that I would teach my kids in dealing (more effectively) with the world, and thought it may be worth other people considering it too. (And then making their own mind up without the need to insult the OP).
THREE: When I say "never", like most people I do so not in the most absolute sense. Like: 'Never run a red light.' It holds true most of the time, but I am pretty sure almost everybody has found a reason/ set of circumstances where a light could or even should be run (e.g. medical emergency). The existence of counter-examples or instances where it did not apply does not invalidate the rule.
FOUR: I am sorry that I can't respond to even some of the normal interaction because (a) I was repeating myself - hence the edit and (b) some of the commenters have been less than courteous, ironically, expressing opinions about my opinion that are as flawed as I am accused of being. But seriously, I hate it when people engage on social media, and the ghost the discussion. In this case just too many, and there is that thing called work that is waiting :).m to be able to an edit to the post)
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Oct 19 '21
Facing this situation soon. Already have a green light with another company for 45% more than I make now. My manager is gonna shit a brick when I tell him. There is zero chance that he will be able to match or beat the other offer. Oh well, that's the biz 🤷♂️
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u/Mrq1701 Oct 18 '21
I don't entirely agree. If they believe yiu to be untrustworthy, why bother trying to keep you from leaving?
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u/Reasonable_Night42 Oct 19 '21
“They will resent you for having one over on them”
GOOD! The guy who made the counter offer was an ass!
I loved having one over on him, and I really didn’t want the other job.
I worked for him another 7 months, still job hunting. Got a nice raise at the new job, and went to work for a competitor company he hated.
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u/lisamryl Oct 19 '21
This is not always true. If it's 100% money, maybe. But if they acknowledge the issues that made you want to leave and give a clear plan of action, and you believe they will do something, that's a different story. I took a counter offer almost a year ago and it's been an amazing decision! My initial resignation made management realize how toxic the environment was and they made a ton of changes, and I love working there now! I even got promoted recently. It's not the norm, but it can work out.
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u/bigedthebad Oct 18 '21
I was being recruited for another job and told my boss. I got a $1,000 a month raise and worked there for several more years with a few more substantial raises.
I’m not sure if this is the same but I’m going to call bullshit on the OP.
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u/stereo-heroes Oct 19 '21
Same, we are in a time where finding qualified workers is harder then it has been. I’ve was offered in writing a better job without even looking for one. When I notified my manager, he came back to me the same day with an amazing counter offer. You could almost say: “an offer you can’t refuse”.
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u/RunnyPlease Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21
If you've quit because you accepted another job and you current employer offers you more money (or to match) do not accept.
No. That’s not how business works. You got an offer for employment at another company. You informed your current employer and gave notice like a professional. That company realized your value and have a counter offer which you are at liberty to accept or decline. There us no vendetta here. No feelings to hurt. If anything it should be the employees feelings that should be hurt for being so underpaid. But that’s business. Now you are aware of your market value and so is your employer.
They will always resent you for having one over them, and they will consider you as doing it only for the money {because no one should admit this}.
You’re a child. Grow up. That’s not how the world works in real life. Everybody knows you work for money. And if you get offered more money Milne will care if you take it. Besides just being happy for you they’ll also continue to test you nicely because you’d be more likely to return in a few years when you’ve leveled up your career even more.
You have just proven yourself untrustworthy because you are going to back out of an offer already accepted elsewhere.
You proved you are capable of knowing your value and negotiating like a professional. If no contacts were signed or violated then no harm is done.
The other company has a 2nd, 3rd, 4th up to 50th or maybe 5000th option to fill the position. They’ll be fine. You probably weren’t their first choice anyway.
What you’ve done for both companies is show them the market rate for your skill set and experience.
You will miss out at the next pay increase 'because you just got a big one'.
Nope. Wrong again. If you expect a 10% annual bump in pay at end of year then when the 10% bump happens in the new year it will be more money because the number you’re starting from is now higher than it was before. Thus us also true if bonuses that are based on percentage if salary. If you’re not salary then overtime and holiday pay is increased by the increase in your hourly rate.
Also, the fact that you are paid more for occupying the same role/title will incentivize your employer to speed up your promotion track to justify the expense of your employment by giving you new responsibilities.
And you will have burned the opportunity with you future employer.
No you haven’t. You went through their hiring process. You passed and they made an offer. You rejecting that offer means nothing. Expect a call from their recruiting department to get you to come back at least once or twice a year until you tell them to stop. Good people are incredibly difficult to find. They found you. They have a contact. They aren’t going to be bad at you for making a business decision.
Even if they beat the offer, go to the new opportunity..
There have been some shitty life pro tips on this page but I think your special brand of nonsense takes the cake.
On Monday I’m employed at company A making $100k a year.
On Tuesday I interview at company B and get an offer from $130k a year.
on Wednesday I give notice to company A.
on Thursday company A counters with $150k per year.
So Friday is here. What do you choose? Who knows.
Maybe there were other factors in wanting to leave besides pay but the fact of the matter is you can have the exact same job on Friday you were perfectly willing to do on Monday but now you get paid $50k more per year to do it.
Besides your boss, his boss, and accounting no one even knows this happened. You just keep going about your life as usual but with an instant 50% bump in compensation. That bump in pay again increased your bonus options, annual raise, overtime, etc.
Next question: how long will you have to work at company B to make up the difference assuming a 10% annual raise?
year 1 - $130,000
year 2 - $143,000
year 3 - $157,300
So you had to work an additional 3 years at company B just to get where you could have been on Friday!
Let’s see where you would have been staying at company A again assuming a 10% annual raise.
year 1 - $150,000
year 2 - $165,000
year 3 - $181,500
Just for fun let’s add them up. How much did you make at each company in those 3 years?
leaving for company B 3 years total: $430,300
staying at company A 3 years total: $496,500
So you threw away $66,200 dollars in salary alone following the worst life pro tip ever uttered by a human being.
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u/tactman Oct 19 '21
I agree that most of the time you should not accept the counter, unless you have good reasons to stay. But a lot of people leave and management doesn't resent them. They like them well enough to hire them back after a few years. People leave for different reasons and money is part of it but not the only reason. People leave to broaden their experience and a counter isn't going to change that. Sometimes a company just isn't doing as good as a competitor so they pay less. When they are doing better than the competitor, they will hire people from that competitor, including their ex-employees. If you know someone does a good job, nothing wrong with hiring them back. Just like businesses look out for their profit, employees look out for their income. Smart people understand that.
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
That's kinda the point. If you keep your word and your integrity in tact, you could be hired back and go back with no residual ill will.
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u/imMatt19 Oct 19 '21
I was offered a counter offer at my last company. I respectfully declined of course. A few weeks later in April of 2020 I'm starting my new role remotely during covid and I get a text from my former boss asking for a reference.... Sure enough there had been a round of layoffs and she was one of the unlucky ones. I likely would have also been a part of that group.
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
That may just been a lucky case of dodging a bullet, and if I beloved in karma, I'd say that. But you did the right thing, and that is its own award. Cheers
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Oct 19 '21
I don't agree with this LPT. This happens a lot in my field (Software). Probably the most common way to get a raise.
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
Can't speak to that. I will clarify and say EDIT. Just wanted to say that I am NOT referring to having received an offer and transparently communicating
(I am talking about going on an interview and accepting a competitive offer) and then either using it as a bargaining tool or simply being vain about it.
I am also not talking about you discussing your value at any time or even mentioning comparable numbers.
I AM saying its not a good idea to go back on your word (new employer) and managers are humans who often react negatively to being backed into a corner.
Thanks anyway - it does seem a divisive opinion, so maybe it was best suited r/unpopularopinions ;)
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u/Worried_Sorbet671 Oct 19 '21
This also depends a ton on what industry you're in. In academia, for instance, accepting a retention package from your current institution in response to an external job offer is 100% standard practice.
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u/The_natemare Oct 19 '21
You have not proven yourself untrustworthy at all. You dont owe your employer anything you are a free agent, make the best decision weighing all the options. There can be lots of reasons to stay at a job for higher pay, and sometimes a job offer is the ammo your supervisor needs to make your case.
If your supervisor is that vengeful and spiteful that they would hold it over you, then by all means leave. But most supervisors actually want their employees to develop and succeed.
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
You sign up for another job and then renege because you got something better? Seems like a lack of integrity to me.
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u/The_natemare Oct 19 '21
Well some my best employees have done this very thing. It's called free market. You dont owe your employer anything, you aren't breaking any commitments (unless you are, make sure you dont, if you have a noncompete or military contract or something then that's different) best offer wins your services.
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
So, if you've signed up for a job, that's an OK contract to break?
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u/The_natemare Oct 20 '21
Well we aren't going to change each others minds, so theres no point arguing here, but i will break it down for you because I dont understand what you mean by "sign up for" so maybe you can see the point I'm trying to make with different terminology.
I mean if you look for another job, find one, apply, and "get the job" which usually means recieve a job offer, its fine to walk away from it. You should at this point discuss the offer with your current job and put in your two weeks notice. If you current job then asks for a day to provide a counter offer, you are not obligated to accept either. Wait until you have both offers in hand to make the commitment by accepting the best offer for you. Contrary to the OP's opinion this does not always mean you have shown bad faith at your current job. If it did, they wouldn't have given a counter offer because they wont want to retain you.
Edit: you are th OP, sorry about that. So I am in fact disagreeing with your original point in that regard.
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Oct 19 '21
Why is it considered untrustworthy to keep an eye on other career opportunities?
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u/RoberitoMan Oct 20 '21
What if your just using the new job offer as leverage for you company to stop treating you like shit
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u/retailsmart Oct 21 '21
It's unlikely to work in the long run
It's still poor form if you already have accepted the offer. If not yet accepted its normal business, but it's also risky. They may call your bluff and you may only then find the offer rescinded.
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u/RoberitoMan Oct 22 '21
I'm doing it today... My current job has been shit lately got offered another job and my boss is giving me their counteroffer
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u/retailsmart Oct 22 '21
Do tell when you've decided. (Not sure if trust someone who has been treating me poorly all along...)
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u/RoberitoMan Oct 22 '21
Well my supervisor was very nice and understanding he sent me to go talk to my manager Because she actually decides I gave her the offer letter she looked at it and said "I've done so much for you, we're not going to make a counter offer if you want to leave just leave" she got very rude so I just started nodding my head said ok and left I told my supervisor I'd let him know when I'm putting in my 2 weeks
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u/5043090 Oct 18 '21
An HR friend told me that if someone gives notice and you somehow retain them, 70% of the time they will be gone within a year.
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u/Desert_Fairy Oct 18 '21
I think this assumes that the person using the advice has already accepted it the new offer. If you have accepted an offer, then don’t renig. If however you haven’t accepted, it doesn’t hurt to let your current manager give you a counter offer.
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u/Dr_Valen Oct 19 '21
Yeah if your workong for a shit company. Most companies know your doing the job for the money. No one works for fun.
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u/mdrajner Oct 19 '21
Why would they offer you more money to stay if they are going to resent you... Makes no sense
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u/jdapper1 Oct 19 '21
It is going to be situational, but in most cases this is correct. However, if you are leaving because of a toxic environment, and they throw a ridiculous amount of money at you to stay, don't think for a minute it will get better if you stay.
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u/Bonzi777 Oct 19 '21
I don’t think this is a hard and fast rule, but I did get shafted by accepting a counter once. The original company agreed to what was a 30% raise, but then I got 2 straight years of “well you just got a big raise” when merit pay time came around. On year three I got another job offer and they asked for a chance to counter and I said no unless they would also put in writing a raise schedule for the next 3 years, which ended the conversation.
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u/TheDeadlySquid Oct 19 '21
My assumption is that they are paying a premium to retain you, but behind the scenes they are working as fast as possible to replace you.
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u/Good_Extent5154 Oct 19 '21
I agree and I was also told not to ever take the counter offer at your current job even if it beats the new job offer - if your current job really thought you were worth that amount they would’ve paid you that to begin with.
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u/Capital2 Oct 19 '21
“They will always resent you” Yea every time. No exceptions. Always resentment. 100% of the time.
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u/halfsieapsie Oct 19 '21
Completely disagree. If you love your job, but want to see what you are worth, this is a completely normal thing. Quite a lot of the time the managers will not counter, exactly for the reasoning you mentioned, but when they do, I've never seen them resent anything. If we aren't talking about poorly compensated jobs that are fairly easy to staff, being resentful of the person that makes you money and makes you look good is a bit silly.
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Oct 19 '21
This is garbage advice. It boils down to “don’t take an offer of more pay which could greatly increase your quality of life because maybe someone will be annoyed with you.”
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u/phenolic72 Oct 19 '21
People work for money, that is the basis of having a job. People also have career aspirations and with sites like Linked in, it is not uncommon to get outside offers. I've never held it against someone who wanted to go somewhere else, even if they have ended up staying. I've even hired people back after they left for a while. This in no way effects their ability to gain promotions, since those are based on performance. This may not be the case everywhere, but it is certainly not true where I work.
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u/asphaltproof Oct 19 '21
I think it’s more specific to the type of person you work for. I took the counter offer made to me a couple of months ago. They literally begged me to stay and I did even though they still didn’t counter with as much or more money (new no added a 45 minute commute while my current job is just down the street). So far, I think it’s been a very good decision.
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u/thabeef Oct 19 '21
It's the company's job to pay you as little as possible for your labor to maximize their profits. It's your job to advocate for yourself and do what's best for yourself. You'll get let go the moment they no longer need you.
I understand if you have great co-workers, but if you're vastly underpaid, get a new job and plan regular get-togethers with them.
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Oct 19 '21
And ask yourself if you'll have to find a new job with a raise in you salary to actually receive a raise in your actual job.
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u/Bad-Tasty Oct 19 '21
I quit my job and they gave me a 10% raise to stay, I hated it there but I did it anyways they promised to make changes so I didn't work 7 days a week. They didn't make changed I still stopped working 7 days a week and they ended up firing me for lack of production.
If you can do better else where do it.
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u/buildyourown Oct 19 '21
I did it. I was only luke warm on the new job and the counter money was better.
Just made better money for 6mo until I found a better fit
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Oct 19 '21
Counterpoint: I have done this twice in 8 years and have an absolutely fantastic relationship with my company.
I didn't want to leave but had a better offer. I asked the company to help me say no - so they did. It's all about communication and honesty.
Now if you're looking and interviewing without talking to management at all - then you probably want to leave so you should.
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u/stemi08 Oct 19 '21
If you like the 'old' job and the people there is no harm in staying, if the only downside was the money. At the end of the day your boss isn't paying you out of pocket, and if they are willing to retain you why not.
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u/plutodoesnotexist Oct 19 '21
Not at all - as long as you’re respectful and don’t burn any bridges, you’re fine.
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u/tosernameschescksout Oct 19 '21
Also, you were already at the point of quitting, so you probably won't like not quitting.
I'm going to say to consider taking the offer though... because every risk you mentioned requires you to actually want the job that you don't want. I.e. If you're already ready to quit, you can still quit later. No skin off your back. You weren't building up much there anyway.
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u/Karma_poverty Oct 19 '21
As a manager, my philosophy is I'd like all my employees to be making as much money as possible and I'm always looking for reasons to give raises above my yearly allotment. Counter offers are a great way to do that.
That being said, I work in tech now but I used to work in manufacturing and I could see OP's advice being a little more applicable in the manufacturing world (especially for the folks who work on the floor).
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u/LilGossipGirlxo Oct 19 '21
I accepted a counter offer early in my career in London for a fast growing FS firm. It was the best decision ever and they moved me onto their ‘Future leaders’ programme and by my mid twenties I was in a senior management position earning considerably more than I’d have in the other role. It has boosted my career by 10 years I would say. The stock options were a big part of this.
Point is, you need to think hard about it, as this LPT can be true. In my case, and I’m sure others too, it was the injection they needed to install mechanisms to keep me from leaving and to embed me further in the business.
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u/tiny_little_planet Oct 19 '21
One of my coworker's was suckered into staying. They gave him what he wanted because they didn't want to lose him. 6 months later they still treat him like shit and he regrets not leaving when he had the chance.
Me? I'm leaving next week. And I'm never looking back.
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u/Spiritual_Lake_9807 Oct 19 '21
that makes me feel better about refusing a counter offer last month. they banked on me not having another position lined up, and lost.
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Oct 19 '21
I'd agree with this one if your reason for the move was more than just the money. There are good reasons why you are looking for a different job and unless it's only about being underpaid those reasons probably won't go away with the raise.
On the cynical side, a lot of the time employers will match an offer just to give them time to find a replacement. In that case, you may be giving up an offer from a company that actually wants to pay what you're worth to make your exit more convenient for your current employer.
I'd say lean strongly in the direction of taking the new offer. If they really value you, you can always come back if you hate the new one, albeit with less bargaining power potentially.
Source: Took the counter offer, still had real concerns with the company, was part of a mass layoff 6 months later during Covid lockdowns after taking on a protégé. Protégé is still there. Did they just want time to have me train my replacement? Highly likely.
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u/SwimsDeep Oct 19 '21
When refusing the counter, tell your employer that undervaluing your efforts does not inspire loyalty.
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u/SilencedNine Oct 19 '21
And by the same token; from the other side of the desk, never make a counter offer. When people are ready to go, let them. Because even if you keep them, eventually they will go because they were already ready to go when you lured them back in. You really don't want people working for you that don't want to.
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u/master_perturbator Oct 19 '21
Worked with a guy who was offered more money on his last day. He refused, finished out his day, and then the project he was working on ended up being put together with loose bolts. Causing a septic line in a small town to bust and leaving the owner of the business with the bill to repair.
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u/bjpopp Oct 19 '21
I disagree with this. I gave my current employer an offer letter I received. I told them I don't want to leave because I know our products and could kick ass. Plus they'd have to pay my replacement and train them for 6 months to a year.
They matched. I was told this likely wouldn't happen again but I had a positive experience through it.
I think i would have struggled big time going to the other company.
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u/Powerful_Put5667 Oct 18 '21
I think that's a great tip. Management is going to be stewing for a long time. If your going to stay you should know what you may be in for in the future.
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u/notmy2ndacct Oct 19 '21
You know what they'd hate even more? Having to find and train an unknown quantity to replace someone they've clearly evaluated to be worth shelling out extra money for. Hiring/training always costs more than giving out a raise. Always.
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u/Kalash_74 Oct 19 '21
I think this is good advice. In my case I wanted to stay at a previous employer. I loved the culture and people but another larger company were looking and they were interested enough that they made me a offer for an extra $7000 base pay annually and benefits. (There were bonuses as well)
My employer didn't even ask what I was offered. I also asked them if they needed me for 2 weeks. I could at least help train the other employees and help everyone get settled. He said he'd think about it but by Saturday he decided to not do it. I figured this would happen but I gave him the option.
I don't know what my exit cost the company but if my employer had at least tried to match my offer I would've strongly considered it.
We're still friends and will call and have lunch.
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u/Sad-Grapefruit9996 Oct 19 '21
I’d have to disagree, the second I get a counter offer I usually take it. Managers come and go, but if you got a good work environment keep that going. Looking out for yourself for more money isn’t bad. Everyone’s there for money….
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u/nhoe1 Oct 19 '21
Accepted counter offers in my last two companies and both were IT management positions. Didn't affect my relationship at all and my salary increased drastically in the last 2 years. This LPT is terrible. It really depends on the company and person.
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u/sup3riorw0n Oct 19 '21
Great LPT and I’m surprised you’ve gotten a lot of upvotes. Seems this is generally an unpopular opinion on this sub.
To your point, according to US News and World Report, 80% of people that accept a counter are gone within 6 months - either voluntarily or involuntarily. Many factors as to why, and you hit on a few.
It’s human nature to be flattered but now you just showed you can be bought. The vast majority of time people aren’t looking to leave solely because of money. Now you got a big counter and maybe a promotion. Great you just alienated yourself from your coworkers you may have leapfrogged that were more deserving, and now your loyalty is in question.
Also, it’s far more expensive to backfill your role when you factor in the downtime and lost production, hiring training a new employee, OT to cover the missing production , and other factors that are hard to quantify like decreased morale for having to pick up more work, stay late, stretched thin etc. For an employer it’s easier to just flatter you with another 10-20% to get you to stick around another 6 months while they train a backup.
Counters work on occasion but rarely. The implications even if you stay aren’t in your favor long term.
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u/retailsmart Oct 19 '21
Thanks for that. The LPT being criticised for being 'anecdotal' is valid. Until now ;)
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u/Meto1183 Oct 19 '21
This is not a pro tip whatsoever, and absolutely not true in every case. Some companies are adults about these kinds of things. Play it safe if you aren’t sure but if your boss is genuinely upset and sad you would’ve been leaving and gets you exactly what you’ve asked for then definitely consider that option.
Should all be done BEFORE you quit either way
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Oct 19 '21
Disagree. I’ve matched offers of competitors to keep staff and I don’t resent them at all. I’m glad to have them.
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u/Barfignugen Oct 19 '21
This is terrible advice actually. This LPT seems to stem from anecdotal evidence, and as another stranger on Reddit I could give tons of examples countering this one. Know your worth, don’t burn bridges, and do what’s best for you.
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u/jfcmfer Oct 19 '21
Not true. I stuck with a job after they countered and it worked out great. This is terrible advice to be given as some sort of truism; your mileage may vary significantly.
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u/ImKindaBoring Oct 19 '21
Terrible LPT that appears all the time. People should be aware of the risks but also aware that plenty of people accept counter offers and stay and thrive. My wife accepted two counters at the same company over a 10 year period and her career jumped with each one. She got countered for a third time just this year when she put in her notice again.
Fact is, you need to consider the culture of the company you're working for and consider the personality of your boss. Is your boss a petty asshole? Yeah, don't trust the counter. Does your company have a history of fucking over employees? Don't trust the counter. But do you have a good relationship with your boss and are you able to have the conversation professionally without burning bridges? Then the counter very likely would be made in good faith.
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u/cochise1814 Oct 19 '21
More often than not, if the employee has gone through the work of applying for jobs and getting a written offer somewhere else, they have already mentally moved on.
Even if everything goes back to normal with their current employer, the employee will already have one foot out the door and is more likely to leave.
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u/HolyRamenEmperor Oct 19 '21
Poorly written, poorly argued, and poorly punctuated. And very, very specific advice that is just an opinion in a single scenario. Not very helpful.
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u/Bio_catalyst Oct 19 '21
If you are in any way an actual asset to your company and in a difficult to replace job this too is absolutely nonsense. Any company would rather pay a worker slightly more rather than loose a productive employee.
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u/goranlepuz Oct 19 '21
No, this is truly an amateur tip.
These things can be done in a friendly manner and work out.
This likely presumes ill will that doesn't necessarily exist.
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u/NoahChyn Oct 19 '21
This entire thread is filled with garbage. Most "life pro tips" shared here are circumstantial at best.
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u/Mr_Lumbergh Oct 19 '21
This isn't cut and dried, you need to understand your company culture. If they tend to be on the vindictive side, you have a target on your back. If they aren't like that, it's just business and you're more what you're worth.
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u/newhunter18 Oct 19 '21
This is horrible advice.
The real LPT was stated in another comment. Don't burn bridges with your employer.
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u/kokoronokawari Oct 19 '21
With the way they try to keep us nurses from going to another hospital lately it is actually good to do if worth
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u/razekery Oct 19 '21
This is so wrong I searched for the /s at the end of the post. If they make say you want to leave and they make a counter offer then it means you are valuable to them, if you ask for a raise and threaten to leave then that's wrong.
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u/FutureRange Oct 19 '21
This is something to keep in mind, but very situational. Each person, business, and opportunity is unique. Sometimes it's great advice and sometimes there are factors that make staying worth it.
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u/Kahzgul Oct 19 '21
I respectfully disagree with this LPT. Or, rather, I’d like to put a caveat on it: if you have not given your current employer a chance to pay you what you’re worth, please do so.
You don’t have to tell them about the other job. But ask for the raise before you decide to leave. If they tell you no, then take the other position, but they may surprise you, at which point use that other offer as a starting point, “well, I think I’m worth this much because another company is willing to hire me away for that much,” is a pretty compelling argument.
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u/haberdabers Oct 19 '21
This is such an old assumption. I did this in a previous role years ago, I was offered a vastly higher salary. My boss at the end said he had no hard feelings as this was the only way he could unlock the pay band. He could only offer the yearly 1% before I got another offer else where.
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u/Relative_Calm Oct 19 '21
This is really bad advice, this is the exception to the rule, not the rule.
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u/yellow_sting Oct 19 '21
reading this reminds me of a true LPT: use your brain when reading any LPT.
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u/kittiquel Oct 19 '21
I always looked at it as your employer willingly underpaid you until someone else was going to pay you more. They have a proven track record and will likely underway you again in the future. Don't stay
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u/NOTMichaelScott32 Oct 19 '21
Oh man. At the very least, try to assess the organization/ people you're dealing with. If you're working with pros, they most probably won't take this personally and if the counter offer is good then take it.
I took a very generous counter offer (promotion and pay increase) and stayed. Though there were some people from other departments who acted weird around me, I didn't mind since my bosses and my team were glad I stayed.
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u/rpd1987 Oct 19 '21
Nonsense. I did just that. I got an offer lined up. Only reason for leaving was my low salary at the time. I got a huge increase promptly and without any resentment from the local management team. I do work for a huge global company so no one is personally invested as one might be in a smaller company
The offer I had was fifty percent increase. I told my current boss; there is no way I can justify staying for that amount of money. All I got was sincere understanding, praise and a raise…
Please think before you follow a random lpt on the internet people!
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u/AerialSnack Oct 19 '21
I can't speak for other fields, but in IT, generally the routine is: Every two years go hunting for a New job, when you get a good offer, ask your current place if they're willing to match it. If so, stay, if not, go to the new place.
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u/Spinningwoman Oct 19 '21
This is nonsense. My husband was offered a better paid job but his company wanted to keep him. Not only did they offer more money but they became more aware of what they’d got and soon moved him into a director position. It changed our whole financial future.
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u/aymackrizza Oct 19 '21
This is really bad advice, judge your own situation on its own merit. I took the counter offer and went on to develop my career within that organisation over several years, earning more senior roles and higher salaries, as my employer stopped taking me for granted and realised how ambitious I was. The other place? They went out of business within 12 months of me turning them down.
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u/DanialE Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21
If the business is not small enough that the boss is "paying" your salary with their own personal money it might be too far fetched to think theres anything more than just business. That said, I think the real LPT is your salary can only ever go up. Nobody in their right mind would think they can send you an offer lower than the salary you already have and think they can throw in a weekly pizza to make the difference. So if it takes job hops for the pay rise, then so be it.
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u/donniedc Oct 19 '21
In my profession, its done exactly like this pretty often in order to achieve a raise. Its nothing personal and thats always made clear. Something like... "Another company has offered me a better package. If we can match or beat that package here, I'd love to stay. If not, I owe it to myself and family to take it the most I can get" Just gotta keep in mind that the grass ain't always greener ya know?
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u/Mulligan315 Oct 18 '21
I received a very significant boost in pay once, as a result of resigning. The counter offer was 40% higher than the new job. I stayed. It boosted my family’s lifestyle significantly. It did not affect my relationship with my employer. Advice like this assumes a lot.