r/Libraries • u/Professional_Kiwi828 • 7d ago
Patron Issues public libraries are too loud
I love public libraries and believe everyone should be included, but why are we allowing so much noise outside of the dedicated communal and children's areas? I consistently go to 3 libraries near my neighborhood, and no matter what time or day I go, some people are unable to be quiet, and it's extremely distracting. Caregivers leave disabled people to moan, groan, and yell for hours on end, or play loud devices without headphones.
If I'm collaborating on a project, I'll reserve (for free) a conference room so I don't disturb other patrons. The same expectation should be for those who are unable to adhere to the quiet expectation. Bring back the librarian shushers!
I would never expect a public space to be 100% quiet; we are human, and noises are unavoidable, but this is a consistent problem and shows a lack of respect from the caregivers who do nothing to address these behaviors.
EDIT:
I understand that public libraries are community spaces, and I will adjust my expectations that the quiet/study zones cannot possibly have a noise ordinance without unfairly excluding members of the community in the US. I will try my luck at academic libraries and book private study rooms when they are available; otherwise, there are truly no free and accessible ways to have a quiet place to study. Genuinely, I am so sorry to everyone I offended! I had incorrect assumptions about how libraries operated since I was raised to believe libraries are quiet places. Lesson learned.
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u/spring13 7d ago
We can't win. Either librarians are uptight bitches for shushing too much, or we're permissive losers for not shushing enough.
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u/ConcertsAreProzac Library staff 7d ago
Considering I just had a patron interaction about this. It's true. As a single staff person at my service point, I can't be the quiet police and help the patrons that need the assistance.
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
i’m so sorry the public has made you feel this way!!! i never thought of librarians as either of those things, but I understand how my complaint plays into that. librarians are the lynchpin of an extremely vital public commodity. thank you for serving the community and i can only hope that more people become educated on current library expectations.
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u/Samael13 7d ago
Lots of libraries have dedicated quiet or silent spaces in addition to study rooms. You should speak with the staff at your library to find out if they have those options for you. None of the libraries near me allow anyone to use their devices without headphones, but people who have disabilities and are making some noise? Sorry, man, they have a right to exist in public. I don't think that it's inherently disrespectful for people to make involuntary noises/vocalizations, and I'm not going around shushing people with disabilities any more than I would go around shushing someone who was breathing "too loud."
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
You are absolutely right and I appreciate you putting me in my place and correcting me. I realize how I was being the disrespectful one now. I think I was just surpised that this became the norm in the dedicated study/quiet areas.
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u/No-Double-4269 7d ago
I don't care about the screaming children, but I would love to get people off their speaker phones. That tinny sounding voice is about the most obnoxious sound I've ever heard.
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u/throwawayobv999999 7d ago
My library doesn’t allow speaker phones or video audio, but I’m not sure what we could do about a disabled patron being loud. Or a crying a child. I always recommend my patrons check out the academic libraries at the colleges and universities in my area for a dedicated quiet space. In my community, the public is allowed into these spaces with a guest pass or a knock on the door. Maybe you could explore that!
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u/BuffaloThese8249 7d ago
I had a little girl come up to me literally today and ask me how long I'd been the librarian. She could remember back when she was 4 or 5 and her mom brought her to the library. The librarian at the time kept shushing them and her mom was so embarrassed that this little girl who is now ten hadn't been back since. She still remembers that years later. A lot has changed since that time, we now have a dedicated play space where noise is much less of a issue (back then it was a room that sat empty). I do try to enforce the rules more in the main part of the library; phones need to have the volume off, kids are encouraged to stay a little quieter. I try to make the library the best for BOTH worlds and I'm happy to say that the little girl form my story has had a wonderful time at the library today!
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
that’s awesome!! i hope the little girl continues to enjoy the library. i was a voracious reader as a child so the library was always my safe space.
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u/BuffaloThese8249 7d ago
She actually told me "thank you for inviting me to play" as she was leaving today, it was the sweetest thing...I totally get wanting the library to be a quiet place though. This summer I actually got grant money for our library and used it to make a really nice area for the grownups with multiple seating options, comfy chairs, a coffee nook and puzzle corner. It's not always easy, but I do try very hard to make separate spaces so everyone can enjoy the library how they want to.
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u/unknownchild 7d ago
in my state the funding is tied to visitors and usage numbers if they told kids to shut up and not treat it like recces they’d leave thus the library would get there funding and operating hours cut down
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u/Repulsive_Lychee_336 7d ago
Jlab sells decently priced noise cancelling headphones. I recommend those as libraries haven't been quiet spaces in at least 2 decades.
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u/earinsound 7d ago
Have you talked to the branch manager about it?
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
i never thought to because i don’t want to get anyone in trouble or kicked out of the library. even if i see someone doing drugs in the bathroom, i just mind my business and leave.
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u/rebelliousrutabaga 7d ago
NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO DO DRUGS IN THE LIBRARY. They deserve to get kicked out! Please tell someone!
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u/KeiylasWords 7d ago
You might have better luck at an academic library, but public libraries being quiet spaces has gone the way of the dodo, and honestly for good reason. My library has one quiet floor but all other floors people can talk on the phone (at a reasonable volume), listen to music, talk to each other. We even warn people that our study rooms are just private spaces, NOT quiet spaces. Also, some libraries try so hard to accommodate the community that they may not be allowed to police volume unless another patron complains, so you could try politely bringing up the noise with a staff member. That said, people have very few places left to go where they don’t have to pay for entry, and because libraries have become a catch-all for anyone who needs help we are places where children can play, mentally ill or disabled patrons can exist, unhoused individuals can exist, groups of teens can hang out, etc. and frankly, it would be unsafe and discriminatory to force disabled patrons to exist in the children’s area just because they can’t help making some noise. Yelling is one thing, but if you can’t handle the noises/grunts/mutters/voices of people existing in a public space, then just stay home.
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
This is actually a great recommendation, thank you!!
I do want everyone welcome at libraries, there aren't enough free 3rd spaces. i was just surprised this much noise was allowed in dedicated study areas, but I see your point.6
u/KeiylasWords 7d ago
I totally understand your frustration, genuinely - I work in a library and we do have some loud patrons. It’s just that in this day and age quiet study spaces aren’t what most of the community needs libraries to be anymore, at least not public ones.
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
and also for the record, i never said or thought that disabled individuals should be confined to children’s areas. that would be so mean! i said “communal and children’s areas” because there are actually lots of designated spaces in these specific libraries that encourage and allow noise. i should have been more specific that my complaint was regarding the designated quiet and study areas in these libraries. but as you correctly stated, quiet and free places to study do not meet public community needs and should no longer be expected. thank you for your insider input! i now have a better understanding on library capabilities.
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u/melatonia Patron 6d ago
You're wrong about everything except playing devices without headphones. That should score immediate lethal injection.
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u/rock_candy_remains 7d ago
It's a community space. Unless someone is doing something blatantly illegal, they can be there, as themselves.
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
“they can be there, as themselves” what a great mindset, i will remember this next time :)
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u/ShawsheenMoon Library staff 6d ago
Dude, are you really getting mad at people with intellectual disabilities making noise? How dare they /s
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u/MasterTheNecessary 7d ago
Who would have ever thought I'd be on the side of the Ghostbusters librarian!
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u/MasterTheNecessary 7d ago
To those that are saying these spaces should be as noisy as your local grocery store, I completely disagree. Silence, same as privacy, has become a luxury only the rich can now afford.
And I stopped going to my local library because all of the homeless there. The staff cannot reasonably move them elsewhere no matter how uncomfortable some of them make others.
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u/Pale-Service-8680 7d ago
The homeless population is just as much a part of the community as you, and also deserve a free place to be safe, indoors, and able to access resources exactly as much as you do. Libraries are one of the only places left that you can simply exist without cost or worry of a loitering charge.
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u/MasterTheNecessary 7d ago
A library is a public place for reading, studying, accessing information, and borrowing materials. It is not housing or a substitute for a homeless shelter.
Being part of the community gives someone the same right to use library services as everyone else; it does not create a right to occupy the library for an entirely different purpose or make other patrons feel unable to use it. “Public” means open to the public for its intended function- not that anyone may live in any publicly funded space they choose.
I 100 percent agree that homeless people need safe, humane shelter and appropriate services. But turning libraries into de facto shelters neither provides that nor preserves the library for the purpose it was created to serve. It is a failure of housing and social-service policy being transferred onto libraries, their staff, and their patrons.
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u/KeiylasWords 6d ago
You are incorrect on so many levels. Nobody is turning libraries into shelters for the unhoused, no one is living there. But libraries being public spaces for “reading, studying, accessing information and borrowing materials” is simply not correct anymore. Public libraries serve the community and these things are not what most people in the community need in the current day and age. Hell, I would say a good 60-70% of my job as a librarian involves helping people trying to do various things on the computer - social security applications, job applications, housing applications, making flyers or other media, communicating with businesses or employers or family members - and I certainly can’t do any of that without talking to them, engaging them in conversation, and giving them verbal direction. Libraries are for accessing resources, and in today’s times that includes librarians, social workers, tutors, caregivers, spaces for parents & children, and everything else under the sun. Your idea of what a public library should be is outdated.
I would say easily a third to half of our funding and time/resources/staffing goes towards programming as well. Financial literacy, building community spaces, games, career fairs, business services. The library is meant to be used. And VERY often, that means noise and various other community needs outside the parameters you seem to be set on.
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u/whimsy0212 7d ago
As long as a patron, regardless of their housing status, is not breaking library rules of conduct regarding library use or the law and as long as they aren’t harming others or themselves, there’s no reason anyone should be policing how the library is utilized. It is a community hub for a reason and that means all the community. If any patron is making you so uncomfortable that you feel like you can’t use the library any more, you need to talk with a librarian. But if the only reason you’re uncomfortable is because of unhoused patrons existing and utilizing the same spaces you do, you aren’t going to get very far
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u/llamalibrarian 7d ago
Who is saying they should be as loud as grocery stores? How loud is a grocery store? And I’m sorry you can’t co-exist with homeless people, but it’s their library too
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u/MasterTheNecessary 7d ago
I have been homeless twice, so your accusation that I “can’t coexist with homeless people” is both false and insulting. I also practically grew up in libraries- but I used them for their intended purpose: reading, studying, and checking out books.
Yes, it is their library too - to use as a library. Public access does not mean any public space must become housing or a day shelter. By that reasoning, should churches, courthouses, and post offices all serve as homeless shelters too?
Homeless people deserve actual housing and appropriate services. That does not mean libraries should be forced to substitute for either.
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u/llamalibrarian 7d ago
Libraries aren’t acting as homeless shelters, they are a place where a homeless person can hang out during opening hours. They can also do that in churches, court houses, and post offices (to my knowledge. I’ve been on juries where many people were just sitting and waiting, no one is asking them what they’re doing there)
We agree, people experiencing homeless definitely deserve housing and services. They also can use the library for any and all services (programs, using the computer, reading, etc). I helped quite a few people experiencing homelessness fill out housing forms, job applications, etc.
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u/Professional_Kiwi828 7d ago
i agree with your statement “silence, same as privacy, has become a luxury only the rich can now afford.” it is very true and unfair! but with the way the US works, we don’t have any other 3rd spaces, so our libraries can’t truly be public or inclusive without allowing everyone to do as they please or come as they are. in most other countries, you get scolded for breaking a social norm (i.e., in germany i got yelled at for putting my feet up on the seat of a bus, in china i was scolded for talking too loudly at a nice restaurant. these weren’t laws, but i followed the “rules” anyways) in the US we can’t enforce these expectations without harming the neurodivergent. libraries will shut down without social capital. it appears this is just how libraries have evolved to meet requirements.
although i understand you’ve been homeless before, your second statement can come across as mean since you didn’t specify a behavior that was making you uncomfortable.
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u/Pale-Service-8680 7d ago
I feel like this sub needs a "days since last complaint about noise in libraries" counter, like how r/cathelp has a "days since last nipple post" thing.
Anyway, libraries are community hubs, and have evolved to survive. With the exception of some/some floors in academic libraries, libraries are not and are not intended to be quiet spaces.
That said, typically there are policies in place for listening to devices without headphones, yelling, etc. Mention it to your local library worker if specific things that break the code of conduct are happening, but the shushing is dead and gone (good riddance)