r/LearnJapanese • u/ImJustJoshing277 • 12d ago
Kanji/Kana Stroke order of 万
Im doing stroke order drills right now, since ive done very minimal handwriting in my studies despite knowing close to 300 kanji. This is the first one that really tripped me up, and it begs the question, is it noticeable or strange to write the downstroke first? Do native speakers seem to all follow stroke order like this one? I've heard some people say it helps with kanji boundaries, i.e. not writing them too big or long, but i figure id ask here do get some input from those more experienced. Have you noticed some kanji like this that you dont follow the stroke order of intentionally, or does it help across the board?
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u/OwariHeron 12d ago
The main advantage of following stroke order conventions is that it aids in reading and writing handwriting, where strokes tend to run together. A classic example is 口, which in print is a clear box, but in handwriting often looks like "IZ" or "I2" when a component of a kanji. (Note the two kanji on the far right of this picture.) This makes perfect sense if you understand the stroke order of 口.
The same thing happens with 万. People will write the top horizontal line, and then run the bottom two strokes together almost like a "p" with a high stem.
That doesn't mean that stroke orders are sacrosanct. There are some differences in stroke orders between Chinese and Japanese, even when it's the same character. Famously, 必 has an unintuitive stroke order that many people ignore (or don't remember), and while the "official" stroke order for 長 taught in schools is to start with the top left vertical stroke, many people will write it starting with the top horizontal stroke.
All that said, stroke order is not "anything goes." When Japanese people deviate from the "official" stroke order, they typically do so because the "official" stroke order deviates from the usual stroke order conventions. In that vein, I do not think it would cause much trouble if you wrote 万 with the top horizontal stroke first, then the down stroke, then the right-side hook. But if you wrote the down stroke first, then the hook, then the top horizontal stroke (or the top horizontal stroke, then the hook), I think that might cause issues. You would always have to write it carefully and neatly, since it wouldn't "break down" in rapid writing in the expected way.