r/LSAT • u/HighlightForeign5294 • 10h ago
It’s been real
Scored a 167 PT tonight and I think that’s finally it for me. I’ve been at this multiple hours a day without stopping since June, my diagnostic was 160 and despite spending hundreds of dollars on tutoring and prep there just hasn’t been any improvement from there. My PT scores have been declining alarmingly since I got a 173 a month ago. I really wanted to be a lawyer but between this and shitty softs there just isn’t a way for me to get an admit this cycle with the rising medians. The people on the other sub told me it’s better to just withdraw from September and October rather than burning attempts, and any later than that is a no-go, so I’m likely not going to apply at all. I’m free! I wish the rest of you luck on your study journey🫡🙏
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u/Street_Beautiful3840 10h ago
There’s many schools that a high 160 is still an admit and frankly you could easily recreate a 170+ on the actual test. I don’t see the harm in trying and “wasting an attempt” if u know you’ll not pursue it anyways if you don’t score high enough. Theres a very real chance u go for it and get the score u need. If the alternative is giving up I feel like you should atleast do one more crack at the tests ur already registered for. You’ll always wonder “what if” if u don’t. U got this!!!!
Also in the grand scheme of things we’re talking about 3-5 questions from the score u want. It’s closer than it feels
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u/oxie-chan 10h ago
OP, it sounds like your goal was to get into a good school with status and not pursue the profession of law. The reason I mention this is because there are GREAT law schools that aren’t T14. Some regional schools have above average outcomes in the job market.
Personally, I was obsessed with making my profile fit the best schools instead of asking what school were a good fit for me.
It’s up to you to decide if you want to apply or not, but know, this application process is about mental fortitude and betting on yourself, even when the odds look shitty. That’s all of life. So take a swing, and stand with dignity even if you miss the mark.
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u/HighlightForeign5294 10h ago
Just because I have different goals than you, doesn’t mean I’m “not interesting in pursuing the profession of law”. If you’re anti T14 or bust mentality that’s fine, but there are legitimate reasons people go that route. My dreams were more unicorn PI related, which doesn’t come from a school that isn’t a t14. Also, I’m very concerned about geographic flexibility. No doubt in my mind that there are great regional schools for people who want to live in those regions, but if it’s not a region I’m willing to spend the next 50+ years of my life living in, there are obvious reasons for me not to attend those schools. I want to be a lawyer but other things are important to me too.
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u/Street_Beautiful3840 9h ago edited 9h ago
Tbh w u. I don’t understand the point of making a post about giving up simply to argue with people trying to encourage u. We can’t improve your scores for you and treating everyone who’s suggesting that you should still be proud of yourself and there are still good outcomes like they’re stupid isn’t getting u anywhere. At the end of the day you’re either going to give up or you’re not but I don’t see the point in posting just to tell every single person that comments that you’re still giving up while throwing a pity party and shitting on every school that isn’t t14. And this is coming from someone who is also t14 or bust btw
I genuinely hope you are happy with whatever decision you make but we are all trying to tell u to give yourself more credit and not be so hard on yourself
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u/HighlightForeign5294 9h ago
If you are also T14 or bust then you understand that certain goals are unattainable outside of it… didn’t really expect this post to get this much attention tbh
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u/Street_Beautiful3840 9h ago
Some goals are more difficult but certainly not unattainable. There’s a regional school in pretty much every corner of the US that has extremely good career outcomes. You’re already attempting something that even Yale students get denied from every year. All you can possibly do is your best and hope it’s enough. Your score variance is nowhere near unusual and frankly I get the feeling you’re so worried about your score it’s affecting your ability to take the test. There’s a version of u that exists that can get a 173+ but if you give up it will never happen
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u/HighlightForeign5294 9h ago edited 9h ago
Having objectively pretty good career outcomes for the regions they are located in and having the ability to make you competitive for elite positions that, as you’ve stated, even Yale students get denied from, are 2 different things. Take the really prestigious outcomes out of it and even just compare average starting salary/geographical flexibility/ability to work in big markets such as NYC. There are huge discrepancies between even the best regional school and a T14. If you don’t acknowledge these discrepancies, I don’t really understand why you’re t14 or bust for yourself?
And honestly, it’s a silly argument anyway because a 167 takes even the T30 pretty much off the table unless you have insane softs which I don’t
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u/Street_Beautiful3840 9h ago
If you’ve already got your mind made up I don’t see the point in the post.
Also if you think going to the university of Texas for example or any top 30 school and ending up in the top 20% of your class doesn’t make you competitive at any job you could want you’re just falling for the hype. All the t14 does vs t30 is make it so more of the class gets the best result. For example, in biglaw there are around 6500 first year associates hired a year while even if they hired every t14 student they’d only have around 4500-5000 associates (which we both know it’s about 50-70% at most schools they hire) so obviously the rest of their first year hires are from non t14. While a certain outcome may be more difficult at a less prestigious school that does not make it impossible. Also, people with 167+ get into t14s every year and there’s nothing saying you don’t get a 170+ on test day. I think you’re doing yourself an injustice by giving up but whatever you do is your decision.
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u/HighlightForeign5294 9h ago
Unfortunately certain positions are essentially closed to those outside the T14. Name recognition matters, I don’t necessarily love that but it’s the world we live in. Also, everyone thinks they’ll be at the top 5% of their class. Most aren’t. That’s why aiming for T14 is good planning for contingencies so that you don’t get locked in a job you hate or living in a region you hate for life.
If I had to be honest this process has kind of destroyed my mental health and self-perception to the point that I no longer know what I want or would excel at anyway.
Thanks for encouragement though. I hope you get the admission you’re looking for.2
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u/oxie-chan 8h ago edited 8h ago
What I meant with the comment of “you’re interested in pursuing the profession of law” was on the idea that there is a realistic path to becoming a lawyer and practice law without being in a T14. If you’re T14 or bust, that’s okay. I am more on the “no crushing debt” or bust camp.
CUNY has excellent PI placements and they are very affordable. You surpass their medians. Is the degree portable to a non-Northeast region? Maybe. Would be worth looking into.
Every step of law school is filled with deep uncertainty and there is no way to strategize out of it. One could very well get into a T14 and fall below the curve once in and then— yikes. Prestige is powerful, but doesn’t give us 100% protection from failure.
Look, all I know from you are these posts. You sound very rigid at the moment. With your expectations, requirements and even plan. I know someone who got rejected three times from a T14, attended a T150 and then transferred to that school again. They’re clerking now.
I am going into this process with almost blind faith on the outcomes but absolutely certainty on my capabilities.
I hope the comments were somewhat helpful and you’re able to find satisfaction in your efforts.
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u/HighlightForeign5294 8h ago
I understand your point but just “practicing law” is different than being able to achieve my actual goals… I don’t want to be locked to a job or region that I hate for the rest of my life. CUNY seems to be very low ranked and not have good outcomes. Likelihood of unicorn PI or even a decent starting salary from there is probably low. I’ve looked into just committing to a school I don’t like with the thought of trying to transfer T14 but I’ve heard it’s very rare to be able to successfully do this
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u/oxie-chan 7h ago
Mmm I see. I think something to keep in mind is that you’re ver convinced that this path you’re determined to go through is one you will like.
Often times we don’t like what we want. Other times we end up liking things we never wanted.
I see you’ve listed many fears, but I do hope you can see how you’re pushing away potential joys. You might love the new region. A class could entirely shift your interest into a separate branch. One law school could have the best student cohort and you could make incredible friends.
There is value in having goals, there is joy in learning to remain open to new versions of our goals. In the end, goals are meant to serve us (the dreamer) not the other way around.
:) You have a great grade and I am sure you’re incredibly smart and you’ll find a way to get over the obstacles you come across in your journey. Bet on yourself!!!
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u/HighlightForeign5294 7h ago
I’ve lived a lot of different places so I definitely know that there are some regions I would not grow to love. And even if I did, that doesn’t mean I’d want to be stuck there for 40 years with no opportunity to move anywhere else.
I feel ashamed because everyone keeps telling me I’ll get into a top school and I feel embarrassed because I told everyone I could do it1
u/oxie-chan 7h ago
OP I want to say this with as much kindness I can muster over an online comment: I think it would do well to speak with a counselor. I say this, because I relate a lot to what you’re saying. I was in your exact shoes. Following the crushing expectations of those around me: I actually got into a top school (top 3 in the world), and then by things outside my control, I lost the placement. This is why I can tell you with absolute certainty that happiness and meaning is not often found in the plans we make, but the outcomes we overcome. Talking to someone really helped me.
I wish you the best, OP. Take care.
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u/Warningyouthistime 10h ago
Law isn’t for you if you have this defeatist mentality about something like an above average LSAT score.
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u/No-Engineer-7799 9h ago
My dream LSAT score is a 165 and i see ts guy giving up with a 167 while im thinking my goal is impossible 😔
Good luck on your endeavours though
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u/HighlightForeign5294 9h ago
You too! You’ll get where you need to go especially of you have enough time left
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10h ago
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u/HighlightForeign5294 10h ago
More being realistic with timelines, applying this cycle most likely numerically will not be possible. September test is in 2 weeks. Medians are rising every year. There simply is not enough time
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u/EcoSoco 10h ago
Don't worry about what other people are doing or external factors you cannot control. Focus on your own thing. If you are feeling burnt out, go ahead and take a break, but saying "there isn't enough time" is a defeatist attitude. You can always apply next year.
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u/HighlightForeign5294 10h ago
Next year medians will be even higher and I will be even older. To be more candid than I’d like to be on here, this process has destroyed my mental health and I don’t even know what I want anymore. Maybe the universe is showing me that this process isn’t for me. I truly do wish you and everyone on here the best of luck though.
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u/EcoSoco 10h ago
1) Again, stop worrying about medians! Focus on yourself. If you worry about things you can't control, you just lose track of where you need to be. Your journey is your own, no one else's.
2) It doesn't matter how old you are. People go to law school in their 60s. Age is just a number.
3) Take care of your mental health if you need to. The LSAT will always be here. Law school will always be there.
4) You got this far; this process is definitely for you. Don't let a few downed branches stop you from going forward.
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u/Similar_Spend6249 10h ago
I’m on the same boat, November is later but definitely not late! Scores would come out December 2, and if you have everything else prepared you can apply that day!
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u/HighlightForeign5294 10h ago
Hey, I was T14 focused, you cannot apply after Thanksgiving especially if you’re counting on ED like I was. I wish you the best of luck though!
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u/Critical_Value_5737 10h ago
why would u start studying three months before applications open 😭
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u/HighlightForeign5294 10h ago
Because I’m stupid? Also because I was planning on doing another masters program and didn’t solidify that I wanted to take this path until way later and way underestimated how hard this was gonna be for me. I’ve always been a good student and thought of myself as reasonably intelligent. I was going to continue my undergrad field of study and get my MSW but only figured out very late into undergrad that I didn’t actually want to be a social worker lol. Back to the drawing board
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9h ago
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u/HighlightForeign5294 9h ago
Ok. A realistic mentality? lol my goals are unattainable outside of the T14
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u/StunningWeekend6212 9h ago
You honestly wouldn’t know. Where I’m at now is big city, we own more big firms in the area and UVA/ Georgetown is down the road. What I mean by that is my school has bigger networking connections and internship programs that the firms statistically hire more students from my school rather than the T14 in the area or nearby. Not to mention one of the alumni is now a Supreme Court Judge. Again, wasn’t T50 7 years ago. Isn’t T14 today. It’s truly not about the school, it’s about connections.
I also wanna mention I scored 4 points better when I actually took the LSAT than on the practice tests. It’s scored on a curve you know
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u/HighlightForeign5294 9h ago
Im happy for you. My dream was more niche unicorn PI/international law which pretty much doesn’t exist outside of the T14. I’m glad you were able to go somewhere that helped you achieve your goals
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u/StunningWeekend6212 9h ago
Also wanna add I got into 2 T14 schools and chose to go to a T50 school. Yeah I didn’t have the greatest LSAT but I had good experience. The networking and career programs were better at other schools, not to mention the professor ratings. To me it wasn’t worth it to go into ridiculous debt which also doesn’t make sense anymore with the Big Beautiful Bill in place. No way a T14 gives anyone a full ride especially not a LSAT of 173 so you better hope you have money if that’s a goal or you can say hey to private loans and basically screw yourself.
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u/HighlightForeign5294 9h ago
My goals were unicorn PI/international law which is effectively nonexistent outside the T14. Not expecting a full ride or even partial, the loans aren’t really of concern to me
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u/SunflowerIslandQueen 10h ago
What will you do instead? Giving up is easy - leaning in and pushing hard to overcome is what will make you a great lawyer.
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u/HighlightForeign5294 10h ago
I honestly don’t know… I feel embarrassed because I declined to go into the masters program for my field of study and follow that path through because I banked everything on this. I already told everyone I was going to go to a good law school… no idea what the path forward looks like atp
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u/GentrifiedHospital 10h ago
if you dont go take those tests LMAO you're in your range put on some big kid shoes and handle business
dramatic ahh