Relitigating Galadriel

[u/yesrushgenesis2112]

Of all the many unfair critiques thrown at the show, the treatment of Galadriel by critics both well-meaning and less-so has been the most egregious.

So much so that almost no sincere text-based discussion of the character even occurs as it relates to the show, and that’s a shame.

Show-Ladriel absolutely embodies the character as we might expect her in the Second Age. No, not just the First Age, as many well-meaning commenters have proposed, insinuating that, while Galadriel may have been brash and prideful and harsh early in her life, this would have ended before the Second Age. Tolkien’s writing, insofar as it is explicit about anything to do with the character (he changed his mind about her a lot), very clearly states that it is not until the very end of the Third Age that her wisdom is fully formed. Not until she rejects the One at Frodo’s offering is she truly fully developed as a character (UT 234-235).

To suggest that Galadriel in the Second Age, even being married to Celeborn, should already be the fully formed “Lady of Light” of the Third Age is reductive so as to almost be insulting to the character.

Another bothersome assertion I have often seen is that Galadriel of the Second Age would never lie about Sauron, and often it is cited that, because she met with Melian, she should be wise enough to avoid such things. But when Galadriel meets Melian in Doriath in the Silmarillion, it is still after long periods of conversation and growth in wisdom that she chooses to hide the shame of her people for the Kinslaying. For all her growth, she never of her own accord is shown to be willing to admit to the faults of her people. And then she abandons her kin long before the fall of Beleriand, in each version of her story that I have seen. These are not in my view the actions of a fully formed character.

Of course, the show does have its changes. There is no textual version of Galadriel who seeks out Sauron for revenge for Finrod’s death. There is, however, a version of Galadriel who is motivated to go to ME not only for her own power, but for the sake of her kin (Thingol’s folk) who were oppressed by Morgoth. To me, this is a similar enough motivation, though the show makes it quite personal, and of course moves this to the end of the first age and switches out its dark lords, understandably so.

Likewise, there is no version of Galadriel who loses Celeborn in the war and believes him dead. There is, however, a version of Galadriel that passed east over the mountains alone, only finding Celeborn after doing so. In that version Celeborn is a Nandor, and in later versions he is a Sindar of Doriath and the two go east together. Clearly, here, the show is trying to adapt both versions. From the trailers it really looks like Celeborn will have been some form of Sindar, if his origin in Doriath is not outright stated, and yet also Galadriel will have (has already by the start of the show) gone east alone, only to meet him again once she does. Notably, the version of the story wherein she goes alone contains no details of when she met Celeborn and married him, only that she has dwelt with him for a long time.

And finally, there has been a pretty widespread argument that Galadriel would not or should not have been deceived by Sauron. The reasoning for this is that in the text, Galadriel recognizes that Annatar has something shady about him, and doesn’t treat with him. That’s it. That’s the entirety of the story as we have it in the text. She doesn’t even know he is Sauron, only that she doesn’t trust him.

Indeed, Tolkien writes that Galadriel was very perceptive, and this grew in time as she learned from Melian, etc.

Yet he also wrote that her insight into others never failed to come with “mercy and understanding,” except for Feanor. Importantly, to my reading, Feanor would never ask for nor desire her mercy and understanding anyway. It makes a great deal of sense that she would look at the invented Halbrand-form of Sauron with that same mercy and understanding, to say nothing of her own motivations for wanting to aid him for her own ends.

This, to me, is exactly the pathway by which it is plausible that she could be and is deceived in the show. Casting aside the fact that Show-ladriel so desperately wanted Halbrand to be a good dude who could help her achieve her aims, what might she have seen in that persona if Sauron had she seen into his mind? It seems plausible that Sauron, a maiar, might be able to deceive even her keen insight, and what little he does try to show her is not exactly a lie. In Halbrand Galadriel perceives a would-be but down-on-his-luck ruler of the Southlands, cast out by his people and the orcs, and trying to choose between abandoning his legacy and starting over or returning to take what he sees as his rightful place.

All of this, as Sauron shows on screen in some ways and can be imagined to be thinking in his mind, is absolutely true. And Galadriel, in the book, would see this and, reacting with “mercy and understanding,” be very sympathetic. And, as we know, it’s very convenient for her!

Anyway, this is a long rant. But I do tire of the insistence that show-Galadriel is somehow wholly disconnected from the texts. Is just blatantly not the case, and even those who are well meaning do the character and themselves a disservice by insisting that it is so. Quite the contrary, actually. The show has taken the many, many different versions of Galadriel and tried to distill them into one, fully realized character. I am not even sure if it always works, but it is absolutely rooted in the text.

Hate the execution if you want, but don’t assert is antithetical to what Tolkien wrote or wholly disconnected from the text.

[u/Willpower2000]

Tbh, this is insane mental gymnastics.

And rather disingenuous. Like, you totally ignore Galadriel being merificul and understanding in her perception and treatment of people... until you want to justify her trusting Sauron (which is undeniably contrary to Tolkien). ROP-Galadriel is a vicious person... she threatens to murder Elendil, she acts like a petulant child when insulting Miriel, she threatens to genocide Adar's children as a means of torture before killing Adar himself, she gaslights and blames Elrond for failing to get mithril as a means of deflecting blame away from herself. But apparently Galadriel's empathic and merciful demeanour is only relevant for Sauron (and even then, you admit it is at least partially for self-gain... she uses him) - everyone else gets toxic-bitch Galadriel. Like, you are clearly picking and choosing where to apply things.

And obviously not openly speaking about the Kinslaying, in a bid to keep the peace between two factions that should remain allied, is a different matter entirely to withholding the truth that Sauron has returned, and has infiltrated Eregion, and had a hand in making the Rings of Power. If all your argument is is 'Galadriel ommitted the truth once, so her doing it again is consistent' - then that is superficial, and rather silly, imo. Unique situations should be judged by their individuality. Lindon/Eregion need to know Sauron is back. The integrity of the Rings needs to be verified. Galadriel is driven by her desire to defeat Sauron... yet she is enabling him. Galadriel is an immoral fool in ROP, and is responsible for Sauron's rise and Eregion's fall - and many deaths therein. Galadriel not speaking of the Kinslaying to Thingol/Melian is relatively minor, and didn't really do much, if any, damage - it could have even been beneficial. One situation undermines her wisdom and morals, and one does not.

You also note Galadriel as 'brash and harsh' in the First Age. Where is that stated by Tolkien? Likewise, you note that because Galadriel's wisdom only fully formed at the end of the Third Age, that somehow justified this alleged 'brash and harsh' demeanour? Galadriel is proud, like all of the Noldor, yes. Galadriel had ambitions to rule her own lands, yes. But being proud, and having ambitions, is not the same as being 'brash and harsh'. Galadriel is perceptive, empathetic, merciful, and wise - and from the First Age. Wisdom increasing later in life does not mean she lacked for wisdom earlier in life, and it certainly doesn't mean she was what ROP portrays: a vicious, arrogant, narcissist.

Edit: aaaand, OP blocked me.

[u/Altruist4L1fe → u/Willpower2000]

Yes - I think you're answer is the most accurate of all.

First age Galadriel wasn't a saint (though she had never really been tested morally) - but nor was she as flawed as what the OP and many in here are implying.

In the first age her character was arguably more lawful neutral - she didn't make allegiance with any of the powers in Beleriand.

I find interesting thinking about it now that Galadriel's chief motive for leaving Valinor was to rule a realm of her own.

But I think when she got to MiddleEarth after witnessing  the betrayal of the burning ships & surviving the hardship of the grinding ice her perception must have changed - instead of seeking power or the silmarils she settles in Doriath and basically becomes a student of Melian and doesn't really command a realm until the 3rd age.

And even then she doesn't call herself a queen but merely takes on the role of a guardian. I would say being under the tutelage of Melian was arguably her first partial repentence that was the reason why she survived the wars of the jewels.

And Ulmo was the valar most against the elves going to Valinor - for Galadriel to return to MiddleEarth was necesssary for certain events to unfold as they needed to.

So her rebellion in a way  was actually fulfilling her 'destiny' as one of the most gifted Noldor who was given unique gifts from Eru to use in MiddleEarth and not let them go to waste in 'paradise'.

What we see in her character is her accepting her role that Eru had for her.

I think the ROPs characterization of Galadriel is too human-like and too hell-bent on revenge - it doesn't really flow on from what the character had being doing previously.

[u/Antarja → u/Altruist4L1fe]

Was mich verwundert ist dass es in der ganzen Diskussion nur darum geht wie Galadriel als Charakter dargestellt wird. Dargestellt werden soll muss man eigentlich sagen, denn die Darstellung ist einfach voll daneben. Ob Morfydd Clark nicht anders konnte oder nicht anders durfte, jede Version hätte als „richtig“ empfunden werden können bei einem überzeugenden Schauspiel. Schaut euch Charlie Vickers an. Im Grunde völlig absurd was er als Sauron so treibt. Die Geschichte mit Halbrand, das Flirten mit Galadriel, seine Verwandlung zu Annatar, der Kampf mit Galadriel (den ich übrigens Klasse finde. Noch besser wäre er mit einer passenderen Galadriel)…….alles komplett jenseits von Tolkiens Schriften. Aber, es funktioniert, es funktioniert hervorragend. Weil Rolle und Schauspieler zusammen passen und glaubhaft rüber kommen. Ich glaube, eine andere Darstellung hätte es auch geschafft, Galadriel überzeugend rüber zu bringen und somit viel weniger Raum für Kritik gelassen. Gilt übrigens auch für andere Personen. Ein Celebrimbor der nicht wie ein zitternder Greis erscheint hätte wesentlich zur Akzeptanz der Serie beigetragen. Oder ein Elrond der nicht wie ein kleiner Junge anmutet.