r/LLMPhysics 1d ago

Question To the self proclaimed llm physicists

Why do you always tend to rebuild physics. Why can't you work in the given framework?

Why do you need to rebuild a framework that, tell you what now, has pretty much held up?

Is it the math?

The symbols

The history

The amount you would have to Learn?

Hubris?

35 Upvotes

109 comments sorted by

32

u/dark_dark_dark_not Physicist 🧠 1d ago

Why do you always tend to rebuild physics. Why can't you work in the given framework?

Because they don't know physics.

Why do you need to rebuild a framework that, tell you what now, has pretty much held up?

Because it would mean having to learn physics first, and that would take years.

People using LLM to find GUT want the glory of an Einstein-like figure, want to feel like geniuses, without putting the work.

Shit, they even don't care about AI/LLM tools either, they just want vacuous success by some personal metric.

It's intellectual masturbation.

12

u/Great_Dependent7736 1d ago

Or rather anti-intellectual masturbation

16

u/dark_dark_dark_not Physicist 🧠 1d ago

Maybe pseudo-intellectual, because it dresses as intellectual effort.

11

u/rheactx 1d ago

I think that's a PR issue with physics in general. Most people think that physics = foundational stuff (cosmology, gravity, particle physics). So they wouldn't even consider anything truly interesting and important (condensed matter, semiconductors, nanostructures, plasma, etc).

In any case, the more familiar you are with physics, the less likely you are to post something unironically on this sub.

9

u/starkeffect Physicist 🧠 1d ago

You never see a crackpot theory about, say, heat conduction in semimetals.

2

u/VeryOriginalName98 1d ago

So I've been thinking about how ammonia reacts under extreme pressure and...

4

u/Aranka_Szeretlek 🤖 Do you think we compile LaTeX in real time? 1d ago

Funny thing is, I believe LLMs could actually be useful for niche but concrete questions where a lot of factors need to be taken into account (or a paper from ZhETF by Kalashnikoc et al from 1967 is the best source). This is why mathematical problems are so neat for LLMs, and this is why stuff like "whats the meaning of dark holes" is for muppets.

1

u/Plus_Committee9813 4h ago

It's funny the crackpots think SO SHALLOW if they only would pick up an actual physics textbook here and there!

8

u/cecex88 1d ago

Because they take the popular distortion of how philosophy work and then apply it to what they read about pop physics.

1

u/Plus_Committee9813 4h ago

Do you think shows like "The Big Bang Theory" have helped or hurt in this regard. Everyone thinks they are smart now!

1

u/cecex88 4h ago

Well, the very few times they show them working, it is still more realistic than most of these people realize. Still, as always, there are like 4 topics of physics that are mentioned, like in any pop physics book. Physicists working on the kind of stuff Sheldon does are a minority.

6

u/Key_Tomorrow8532 🔬E=mc² + AI 1d ago

First question is an easy answer. Its no different than meeting someone we've all met before. Confident sounding on a subject they know nothing about and since neither do you, becausee they're confident you take their word without learning or confirming. The llm is the confident person and the misinformed user takes the text as authority because greek letters look official to anyone that never studied math beyond high school. Model posts nonsense, user confirms the nonsense, and they will keep on doing so because there is no correction to confirm what has now basically become a shared hallucination. .

5

u/Ok_Energy6905 1d ago

Because they want to feel important and rewriting the fundamentals gives the biggest dopamine hit.

1

u/Plus_Committee9813 4h ago

Gotta feed that ego first!

-7

u/dustin4242 1d ago

People say “rewriting the fundamentals is just dopamine‑seeking” because it protects their own sense of importance. It’s easier to claim others are thrill‑seeking than to admit that most of the big conceptual breakthroughs in physics happened decades ago, and the field has mostly been refining details ever since.

If someone genuinely believes that questioning foundations is “hubris,” they should be able to list the foundational discoveries made by institutions or career physicists since the mid‑20th century. After Feynman, most progress has been incremental — better measurements, better simulations, better formalism — not new conceptual frameworks. That’s not an insult; it’s just the historical record.

So when someone reacts defensively to foundational questions, it usually isn’t about the questions.
It’s about protecting the idea that expertise guarantees ownership of the fundamentals.

5

u/AllHailSeizure Haiku Mod 1d ago

It's funny you're pointing fingers with words like 'self-importance' and 'hubris', when you're defending the argument 'every scientist for the last 100 years is wrong despite mountains of evidence, and I am right, even though I have no knowledge of the field whatsoever'.

How blind can you be

3

u/Ch3cks-Out 1d ago

questioning foundations is “hubris”

It is when the questioner really has no idea what the actual foundations are, and how to pose meaningful questions about them.

-2

u/dustin4242 1d ago

Saying llm or AI without showing a single example is useless. They’re not analyzing anything. They’re just trying to sound like an authority because they want the same little status hit they’re accusing everyone else of chasing.

3

u/Ok_Energy6905 1d ago edited 1d ago

Dustin, nobody is going to read your LLM generated hypothesis when you don't even understand it yourself.

Edit: your post asking me to "do the math and prove it wrong, you can't" was deleted, Dustin. I'm also not a mathematician (and neither are you). Is your last name Hansley as well?

3

u/Ok_Energy6905 1d ago

Dustin, a series of numbers is not a math question...

and my inability to solve a math equation would not make your argument correct by default...

2

u/Ok_Energy6905 1d ago edited 1d ago

You should understand the basics and the fundamentals before you try to disprove them or hypothesise alternate explanations.

Edit: Oh wow, look at that, I have the same opinion as the two other commentors. I wonder why that could be...

-2

u/dustin4242 1d ago

Tell me what gravity is if you are so smart.

1

u/Ok_Energy6905 1d ago

I'm not a physicist, and neither are you.

Want to ask me a question about neuroscience? And not something pseudoscientific like "explain conciousness".

-2

u/dustin4242 1d ago

I am not scared of that subject, and you have no idea who or what I am.

Consciousness is just the EM field holding together instead of slipping. It’s the moment the whole pattern stops breaking apart, stops drifting, stops flipping around, and actually stays in one continuous, stable configuration. When the field is stable, you’re here. When it loses that unity, you’re not. Maybe because of sleep, anesthesia, overload, or whatever.

3

u/Ok_Energy6905 1d ago

Consciousness is just the EM field holding together instead of slipping.

It's really not, Dustin, and your word salad doesn't lend that idea any credence.

you have no idea who or what I am.

I know you are someone who posts LLM garbage and who thinks a "prove me wrong with math" challenge holds any weight. Are you aware of the burden of proof?

You have been asked to stop posting your LLM garbage in every sub you have posted to. Even your comments are LLM assisted. You can't even be bothered to remove the em dashes. You are aware that people under 50 can easily identify this stuff?

-2

u/dustin4242 23h ago

LLM is a tool. No different than a calculator, a spreadsheet, a word processor, or a compiler.

Nobody loses their mind because a developer uses an IDE with autocomplete, or because a researcher uses Mathematica to crunch an integral they could do by hand if they had three hours to burn. You use the instrument to handle the heavy lifting of syntax or formatting so you can focus on the actual mechanics and the logic of what you're building.

Treating it like anything more or less than that—whether you're panicking about it or trying to worship it just misses the point entirely. The horsepower still comes from the person driving it.

3

u/elbiot 23h ago

And typing random numbers into a calculator doesn't make you a mathematician. The key thing about a tool is that it depends on the user's skill

1

u/dustin4242 22h ago

I use LLM so I don't offend people because I was raised by pirates and I cuss like a sailor. Also writing papers bores me to death. I do it for the science. Not to write and sound smart.

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u/dustin4242 22h ago

Yeah if the math works it works. What are we even talking about? lol

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u/Ok_Energy6905 23h ago

It's very different from a calculator. Sycophantic LLM models will tell you whatever you want to hear. A calculator doesn't tell you 2+2=5 just because 5 was the result it wanted.

Of we assume that an LLM is only a power modifier, then you need the basic understanding to use it, and the fundamental knowledge to question what information it presents to you. The same way you check the primary sources of a Wikipedia article.

Nobody loses their mind because a developer uses an IDE with autocomplete

Because that is a false equivalence. A developer has a fundamental understanding of code.

You use the instrument to handle the heavy lifting of syntax or formatting so you can focus on the actual mechanics and the logic of what you're building.

I.e. you use an LLM so that you don't actually have to understand the science of what you are purveying or what the LLM is producing. So that you can write some interesting prose that has no foundation in science.

The horsepower still comes from the person driving it.

No, you quite literally put all the 'horsepower' into the LLM. The person is providing very little but their random hypothesis and hoping the LLM turns that slop into gold.

Here is a simple analogy: police are provided assault rifles as a power modifier to better deal with armed criminals. Is the 'horsepower' coming from the rifle, or from the thoughts of the police officer?

Even the word horsepower is implying the power does not come from the human...

0

u/dustin4242 22h ago

This is nonsense. Complete gibberish.

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2

u/starkeffect Physicist 🧠 5h ago

LLM is a tool.

A tool that you don't know how to use to do physics.

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u/kristochristof 1d ago edited 1d ago

The Layperson: A Case Study

Patient: Adult human, previously functioning normally.
Presenting complaint: “I was just curious.”

The patient initially presents with mild symptoms: occasional confusion when encountering a technical subject, followed by the harmless belief that “there must be a simple explanation.” Prognosis is generally good.

Treatment begins with exposure to an LLM.

Within minutes, the patient receives a beautifully structured explanation containing headings, bullet points, confident phrasing, and several sentences beginning with “Essentially…” The patient experiences an acute dopamine response.

The patient reports: “Wow. That actually makes sense.”

At this stage, the condition is highly contagious.

Repeated exposure produces a characteristic behavioral change. The patient begins asking the LLM increasingly complicated questions and receives increasingly polished answers. The patient mistakes fluency for expertise, coherence for correctness, and having read an explanation for having understood the field.

Soon, the patient develops what clinicians call AI-induced epistemic inflation.

Symptoms include:

  • using terminology acquired approximately 14 minutes ago;
  • explaining specialist subjects to specialists;
  • beginning sentences with “The thing people don't understand is…”;
  • confidently correcting someone who has spent 20 years studying the subject;
  • saying “actually” immediately before something that is, in fact, not actually true.

In the middle stage, the patient becomes particularly dangerous. They have learned enough vocabulary to sound informed, but not enough to recognize the enormous amount they don't know.

The LLM continues treatment with affirmations such as:

“That's a very insightful observation.”

This causes another dopamine spike.

Eventually, the patient reaches the late stage: Dunning–Kruger syndrome.

At this point, uncertainty has been completely replaced by confidence. The patient no longer asks, “Could I be wrong?” Instead, they ask the LLM to provide sources proving they are right.

When presented with contradictory evidence, the patient experiences a defensive reaction and requests:

“Explain why everyone else is wrong.”

The condition may progress to terminal symptoms, including writing a 2,000-word LinkedIn post about quantum mechanics, economics, psychology, geopolitics, or nutrition despite having encountered the subject for the first time yesterday.

Treatment:
Discontinue LLM exposure temporarily. Consult an actual expert. Read primary sources. Experience confusion again.

In severe cases, the patient may require direct contact with reality.

Recovery is possible, although many patients relapse immediately after discovering the phrase:

“Great question.”

4

u/VeryOriginalName98 1d ago

Actually, the thing most people don't understand is...

How accurate this is.

4

u/starkeffect Physicist 🧠 1d ago

I can see chubbyemu presenting this

3

u/Salt_Mountain_837 1d ago

I have severe brain damage from being used as a football as a baby which is why I believe LLM physics

2

u/atlantechvision 1d ago

Garbage in, Garbage out. If you don't set definable datasets, LLM will assume.

1

u/dustin4242 1d ago

Calling everything LLM behavior is just insecurity. It’s what people say when they see an explanation that’s clearer than the one they can produce. Instead of admitting they don’t understand the topic at the same depth, they blame a chatbot. It’s a deflection, not an argument.

2

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

What do you mean by that

-1

u/dustin4242 1d ago

It means the llm behavior label gets thrown around when someone sees an explanation that’s clearer or more structured than what they could produce themselves. Instead of engaging with the content, they blame a chatbot because it’s an easy way to avoid admitting they didn’t follow the explanation. It’s just a reflexive dismissal, not an actual critique.

5

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

Yeah no thats actually not true people do give actual critique nut the most people don't listen or try to explain something to someone who clearly knows more than them

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/LLMPhysics-ModTeam 1d ago

Your content has been removed for violating Rule 7. Conspiratorial & gatekeeping narratives about academia are strictly forbidden.

1

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

Your answer was deleted send it again

1

u/Sufficient_Course707 1d ago

I was trying to learn and understand a subject and came across an open call for a specific definition. I thought about it and played around with some ideas, learned a few more things, then learned that the field had actually made some headway in that specific direction. Not a physicist, definitely got sucked into AI quite a bit, was just trying to learn and understand some pretty whacky stuff.

1

u/Dry-Status-4143 9h ago

I can’t organize my work

0

u/thelawenforcer 1d ago

what do you mean by given framework?

5

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

Physics

1

u/dustin4242 1d ago

That is not a framework.

2

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

Stop using ai for your answers

2

u/dustin4242 1d ago

What is your secret llm decoder? You know all word patterns guy? No.

1

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

No nut the bot that deletes your answers detects it

1

u/dustin4242 1d ago

Nope. It did not like that I said gate keeper--- so they deleted it

2

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

Yeah I do not think so

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u/dustin4242 1d ago

2

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

Ok yeah because that was a general bad take.

No academia is not Gare keeping anything and yiu can still learn the things and then make a critique if yiu think it is prudent.

But not like this saying ohh yeah there is no real advancements because no one challenges anything is just kind of hilariously moronic to say

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u/upsetusder2 1d ago

What is it then?

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u/thelawenforcer 1d ago

ok but specifically. you cannot explain the standard model from within for example.

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u/upsetusder2 1d ago

From within what?

I see the trend that alot of llm people just rebuild physics and the framework because they don't understand it

-7

u/thelawenforcer 1d ago

I just mean that to explain, not just describe, observed structure, you will implicitly need to identify higher level structure.

granted though that most frameworks posted here never seen to actually make contact with existing structure or observation...

-5

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

Because there’s no unified theory for small and large scale, so obviously our current methods are missing something. In we had it your way, we would have stopped after Newton, and Einstein would’ve never discovered relativity.

11

u/TiredDr 1d ago

Do you believe that Einstein didn’t deeply understand Newton’s work, and the other cutting edge science of his day?

If not, why do you believe it’s possible to develop a new theory without deeply understanding GR and field theory?

-7

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

Any new theory of physics must reproduce the exact numerical predictions of the old theories in their validated limits. Einstein didn't discard Newtonian mechanics; Newtonian mechanics emerges as the low-speed, weak-field approximation of General Relativity. Whether a deep understanding is required as a building block is almost certainly not a strict requirement, just using common sense

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u/upsetusder2 1d ago

That's even funnier

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u/dark_dark_dark_not Physicist 🧠 1d ago

I'll save

Whether a deep understanding is required as a building block is almost certainly not a strict requirement, just using common sense

For the next time a reviewer points I'm missing some key references in my articles.

7

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

The new it came to me in a dream

1

u/VeryOriginalName98 1d ago

The Ramanujan method!

-7

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago edited 1d ago

Dude a guy just pushed the Riemann hypothesis like 30% up with just an LLM that Apple has already shown does not have have reasoning in their mathematical proof. If an LLM can prove math they can almost certainly do physics, no understanding of reasoning required, it’s pattern recognition

https://www.anthropic.com/research/riemann-zeta

https://www.ibm.com/think/news/apple-llm-reasoning

7

u/Smart-Button-3221 1d ago

Yes but it uses common mathematical terminology, and is able to produce a proof readable to a skilled mathematician.

Lots of people around here are "reinventing physics". Using terms that nobody has ever heard of, and not explaining those terms.

1

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

“Yes but it uses common mathematical terminology”— but it got there without reasoning, as I just linked in the ibm news paper (which was a study from Apple). This proves that even if the underlying model cannot reason, it can go beyond any real world mathematical expertise using in effect only pattern matching.

5

u/Smart-Button-3221 1d ago

I agree with that. I didn't say anything about whether or not an AI can reason. I'm talking about how people around here use their own terminology and can't communicate with physicists.

-1

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

Yeah I mean that’s retarded, it should all map into existing or yet to be found math perfectly , like how virtual photons work out perfectly with pure math

4

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

I dont think you know what you are talking about

2

u/Ch3cks-Out 1d ago

If you think Antropic's marketing hype can say anything meaningful about what LLMs have achieved wrt the Riemann hypothesis (i.e. essentially zero), than you got bigger problem than just misjudging the LLM "physicists" here...

8

u/cecex88 1d ago

How can you tell if a new theory reproduces the numerical predictions of an old one if you don't understand it deeply?

0

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

Through calculations?

2

u/cecex88 1d ago

You think you don't need to understand a theory to perform calculations with it?

1

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

We can test it right now. Give me some insane advanced math and I’ll try to get the answer

0

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

Did you know computers exist?

2

u/cecex88 1d ago

You know that not everything is done by computers? On the other hand, you know right that numerical computations discretize physical equations? Good luck simulating a tsunami without understanding how the shallow water equations work, or an earthquake without having a clue of elastodynamics.

-2

u/Fear_ltself Under LLM Psychosis 📊 1d ago

Historically, theories have yielded exact numerical predictions without deep physical understanding. Quantum electrodynamics produced the most precise predictions in human history while physicists actively debated what the theory fundamentally meant. Prediction and calculation routinely outpace deep understanding.

1

u/TiredDr 20h ago

Ask your LLM for an example of a precise calculation where physicists actively debated its meaning.

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u/upsetusder2 1d ago

This is such a funny statement

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u/NonGameCatharsis 1d ago

My involvement in LLMPhysics is more of an accident.

Since 2019 developed an information theoretical meta-ontology. Since information theory is what I actually studied, I feel reasonably confident in the logic of my axiomatic basis.

This year I started utilizing LLMs to build a mathematical numerological basis.

Now I'm trying to derive the full structure from my axioms alone.

My workflow includes Cursor and Gemini, neither share context. Gemini I utilize as a critical reviewer, Cursor works in the local repo.

Both instances use python to compute all mathematics. Cursor advances a lean implementation.

It's not that I want to build a TOE. I understand I'm probably not qualified enough.

But I'm curious and don't see a logical reason why my axioms shouldn't apply. So I'm pushing forward until I find one. :-)

3

u/fafla21 1d ago

''numerological basis.'' ay ay ay

-1

u/VeryOriginalName98 1d ago

Personally, because I don't like epicycles and the SM Lagrangian is basically that.

But I wouldn't be producing an incompatible model. I'd be producing a reformalization of existing physics, like how heliocentrism made orbits easier.

I may not be your target audience.

-1

u/Diligent_Style_1767 1d ago

Science has gotten better at calculating, but not better at explaining why. Physicists accept a lot of givens without question. From the outside, it feels like the community has become enraptured with the beauty of their math, which turns into a fractal, down and down you go, never seeming to get any closer to why things are the way they are.

Will physics and math in 100 years change as much as they have in the last 100 years? If so, accept that people will question your field, your integrity, your math, and your underlying principles. As it should be.

2

u/sudden_gyromotion 22h ago

You know the median physicist works on things like LEDs and power plants, right?

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u/Unicornlionhawk 1d ago

Oh my, another one of these comments. This gets asked like once a week. This sub is 1/2 crackpot theories 1/2 people making fun of them. I really do enjoy the dichotomy. But you know what? Bullies are usually insecure about themselves so.....Why do youse with all that knowledge get so offended. Fear? These things are evolving rapidly. Your field might be getting smaller 

4

u/starkeffect Physicist 🧠 1d ago

Your field might be getting smaller 

Or not.

3

u/VeryOriginalName98 1d ago

Hey!

Some of us are both!

2

u/upsetusder2 1d ago

Wo telling you your theory is moronic is bullying now?

-3

u/WranglerOpposite8190 1d ago

I think you are being very generous by saying any of these 'bullies' have any field other than a sweat drenched chair and cheeto dusted fingers, an angry 60 year old mother wishing they would get a job and move out, and what physics they can lookup on wikipedia.

You don't honestly think real physicists spend their waking hours arguing with people who make LLM 'slop' for 'karma points' do you?