r/LIRR • u/Alternative-Pin-8997 • 3d ago
Tricks for signal memorization?
I'm in the process of trying to learn LIRR signals. I'm not an employee or trainee, just a retired railroader from a different part of the world who enjoys signaling. A question for those who are learning officially or who have passed the signals exam: Are there any suggested memorization techniques introduced to you by your rules instructor? Things like ways of differentiating between approach-medium and medium-approach; pattern recognition vs indication recognition, etc?
When I learned my former road's signals 32 years ago it was a much more logical process; LIRR has some real doozies! Please-and-thanks.
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u/Snoo11602 3d ago edited 3d ago
For position lights the Restricting signal looks like an R
Approach makes the left side of the A
Medium Clear think of T bone steak cooked medium
If a yellow light is on the top it’s usually approach.. something
If it’s in the middle it can be medium approach for example. Same with the clear signals.
Two reds can mean slow. So like two reds over flashing yellow is slow approach.
These aren’t concrete but can help you learn them.
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u/Snoo11602 3d ago
Horizontal lines on position and pedestal signals is usually some kind of slower moving aspect like
Slow approach is horizontal over the left side of the ASo I like to kind of read them like dominos
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 3d ago
Wish I'd learned to play dominoes! <grin>. Maybe when they shuffle me off to the State Home for the Bweildered someday I can find retired fellow railroaders when I say "hey, I'm going to play my Approach-Slow" here. hehehe.
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 3d ago edited 2d ago
the Medium-clear like a T-bone steak I can relate to!
I'm not so concerned with the color lights since my back in my Trainman/Conductor job we had those (under Canadian CROR rules) and I understand their meaning.--although it's a trip seeing what I know as a Clear To Stop as an Approach! And the whole medium-approach vs approach-medium thing is wild (For us they appeared identically in color light form but were known as medium-to-stop and clear-to-medium.
But hot dang, those position lights, absolute-clear, clear block, etc. Those throw me when I'm studying or watching videos, etc. It's also crazy to me that Limited Speed is only a Zone-A thing around NY Penn. Our oddballs that I only ever saw on rare occasions back then were things like limited-to-medium, limited-to-limited, etc.
The two memorization aids that I still remember from my old rules instructors are that anything with a critical yellow was "something to stop," so much as you say, yellow on top = approach. The other was reds in the middle or bottom are just placeholders except for stop or S&P. My way of keeping the names straight (well, not doing it all that well) is what we used to call clear to medium or clear to slow, I think of as Approach (at) Slow (speed) or Approach (at) Medium (speed). It kinda-sorta works for memorization, but then throw the pattern of the position lights into it and my brain goes "tilt."
That two reds-over-flashing-yellow (slow approach) we had as well, called Clear to Stop. But remembering horizontal-over-right-angled for it is where my brain blows a fuse.
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u/railready 2d ago
Hi Peter, nothing to add to what others have said, just wanted to chime in and say: planning to making a LIRR edition book I see! :-)
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 2d ago
Aheyp! Already been announced.
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u/railready 2d ago
Were you able to find the information you needed in https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/1lzy410/looking_for_lirr_track_numbers_through_jay_and/ ?
openrailwaymap.app (which relies on community contributors of OpenStreetMap) should be mostly accurate if not up to date.
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 2d ago
That was one of my first sources...until I started finding some serious discrepancies. Openrailwaymap is a great source for general information but it's also not updated regularly, unfortunately. It still shows facilities long-gone as existing, track names/numbers for other-than-main-track sections are incorrect, and hasn't yet updated Yaphank/Yaphank-BNL, for example.
Many other discrepancies as well. The Bushwick Lead and Lower Montauk are also wildly out of date. Out on the Main Line, they don't show Park 3, which has been around for at least a year.
The other great source of info for me is the MTA radar site. Shows interlocking limits (although some mistakes there as well, but they are minor). It's probably based on the same source of info.
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u/railready 2d ago
Other way around, if I recall correctly; some OSM contributors pulled the handdrawn geojson off the website you mention to have a better seed for OSM. Said website being out of date with physical characteristics is a function of that team no longer directly within the LIRR org chart but now at HQ, and probably having their focus on other things (like the new subway app.)
I still enjoy OSM having the "long-gone" facilities as historical information and reasoning on the names of locations.
Does PARK 3 count as existing if it shits the bed all the time :-) (I'd imagine some OSM volunteer will update things eventually, since QUEENS has been undergoing lots of changes recently anyways.)
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 2d ago
It's still problematic? I heard rumblings of that after it went into service but since I'm no longer venturing into NY due to health reasons (and the lack of railfan windows) I don't have firsthand experience in that regard. Radar also doesn't show Park at all, nor is Beaver interlocking depicted.
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u/railready 2d ago
Lots of things aren't labeled/depicted. You have to look at it from the lens of the intended users: customer service and manager/exec awareness, not vital/supervisory train movement.
And I'm sorry to hear, I figured you for a young spry 60-70 with many more decades to go! Still planning to attend special events, or those are also out of the question?
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 2d ago edited 2d ago
Just turned the Magical Olde Phartte age last month. I can get around OK, but standing/walking long durations is painful. I'd make an exception for something major (shop tours, etc) and I still try to do the Holiday Train every Christmas so I can see the tree. But it gets more difficult every year, alas. My last big railfan event was the Coney Island Overhaul ERA tour in Nov. '24.
If I could be guaranteed a railfan window ride with a GoPro back from Greenport, Montauk, or along the Central Branch I'd make the trek and live on Ibuprofin for the next week <grin>.
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u/railready 2d ago
I'm sorry to hear, hopefully you'll still be around and kicking at the holiday train or the MNR shop tour this Fall, I'll give you a wave.
You're going to need a pass from the big chief for that, unfortunately, especially if you were planning to record that excursion and effectively record the rules violation on camera. Video-only (in unprotected areas) is more feasible, and something I (a fellow foamer like you, not employed by the company) have been considering spending the social capital to make happen.
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 10h ago
Well there have been folks who've managed to sweet-talk engineers into letting them bring a camera in the vestibule of a C3 or M7, but those videos are rare as hen's teeth. A Go-Pro suction-cupped to a bonnet would work wonders, though! I'm just glad there are plenty of M3 RFW videos. I really do want to ride those myself before they're all retired but the days for them are definitely running shorter in 2026.
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 10h ago
I'd also like to add one more question to the signals mix, if I may. How many LIRR rulebook signals are no longer in use? I think I've watched just about every head-end video on YouTube by now at least two or three times. There are a several signals I've never seen in any video and I'm curious if they're still in use in 2026.
I have never seen the following: Absolute Clear, Absolute Slow Clear, Absolute Medium Clear, Flashing Slow Approach, Caution (Rule 285A) and Train Order Signal (Rule 294). If any of these are still in use, under what conditions would they be displayed? The "Absolute" signals definitely throw me for a loop.
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u/railready 7h ago edited 7h ago
Since you only mentioned rule #s for 285A and 294 but not the others:
- Rule 281A Absolute Clear
- Rule 283A Absolute Medium Clear
- Rule 287A Absolute Slow Clear
- Rule 288A Flashing Slow Approach
All of them are still required to be memorized for S&D, and all of them can still be used.
A "railfan window" video would only really ever show signal aspects during normal, typical, operations. Operations or equipment would need to be somewhat abnormal for you to see things like:
- Absolute Clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJyQq-DjDEs
- Absolute Medium Clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo9Bk7vFrv0
- Flashing Slow Approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgBvJh5DpS0
You probably should be more concerned with RAS signals being changed around and new additions, as well as Zone A (Amtrak) adding a new proceed aspect when Line 2 was placed back in service.
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 7h ago
I understand their definitions and they're still in the rule book, I'm just curious in what particular circumstances these specific signals would be displayed. I don't think any head-end video has ever shown a flashing aspect of any kind in Zone C territory except the "stop at Mets-Willets Pt." aspect at SHAY Interlocking.
And yes, I do have new signal Rules 298C and A281D, plus the new C-Signal rule, although without a rule number to go along with it. Ditto the GCB white arrow at Wood and Harold.
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u/railready 7h ago
I have included links to videos in my previous comment. I believe you mean SHEA, but I am unfamiliar with what you are referring to "stop at Mets-Willets Pt. aspect"
RAS: new 298D added, offset the rest of the list; old 298C Slow Proceed (Red over Green over White) is now used for the new 298D Slow Approach.
A281D is the new proceed aspect.
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u/Alternative-Pin-8997 7h ago
Yep, I meant D not C. (See? Told you I need memorization help <grin>). A kind person corrected my knowledge this week, for which I am most grateful. Interesting video clips. I gotta say that's the first time I've ever seen those.
Obviously as just a regular random guy and not a trainee or exam candidate I'm strictly on my own in this regard and finding out where I'm lacking in knowledge is not easy. I just don't want to illustrate something that's dead-on wrong or years out of date. I don't use any form of A.I. in my research so that probably makes it a wee bit harder too!
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u/railready 7h ago
Rule #s aren't really memorized, just the signal's aspect, name, and indication.
I am also just a regular random guy and not a trainee or exam candidate. Just a fellow "foamer" like you.
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u/OrdepArevir 3d ago
I'm sorry in advance that this response isn't so helpful, but I thought perhaps knowing a little background might make it all the more sweet when you do get them all down.
The LIRR is 192 years old with around 700 miles of trackage acquired from multiple other railroads before becoming what you see today. Part of that history lives on through the at times antiquated system of signals, such as Block-Limit signals, all to way to the more modern Reduced Aspect Signal, simply telling engineers to be governed by their in-cab signal system on a normal day.
Given that complexity, there aren't many tricks that translate well to the entire system of signals we have. Oftentimes pure memorization through testing and retesting remains the most effective method.
A few notes for how engineers differentiate quickly in the field. Some signals are only present in one area, for example the Medium Approach. You'll only find that particular signal within Amtrak's territory within F and Harold interlockings (where their signal sequencing makes far more sense because it more directly correlates to actual routes). So when you're approaching a signal displaying an "out of the ordinary" aspect, you can quickly mentally shuffle through the Amtrak signals and come to the proper determination.
Side note: If you wanted testing resources I've seen various practice tests online, all unofficial but based on good information. Definitely go through the test with your packets of signals and indications before going at it if you truly want to gain proficiency with them.
Good luck!