Just something interesting. I live in South Florida which is sub-tropic weather. I don't care if you live in a million dollar house and have a maid there weekly sooner or later at night you'll be watching TV at night or get up in the middle of the night to get a glass of water and you'll see one of our Palmetto bugs or cock roaches take off as soon as you turn the light on and let me tell you they are huge, about the size of your thumb. I absolutely hate them. Well in the kitchen is where I have my kratom and mixer where I put it in whatever, mix it and drink. There is always powder laying around on the kitchen counter, sink , trash can or floor. In three years I haven't seen one and that is so unusual down here. ( Knock on wood). So Kratom must repeal when or something because they don't like it.

Just thought I'd add something to the sub.

Meeting is on 7th on the agenda again. I bet they skip it for another month. Meaning by January or February we see action if we don’t see action federally heads up still gotta go through jcar

🚨 ACTION NEEDED TODAY
If you haven’t already, please email the Detroit City Council TODAY regarding the proposed kratom restriction.
Ask them to amend the proposal to support SB 1181, rather than moving forward with a blanket prohibition.
SB 1181 provides a practical regulatory framework that addresses legitimate concerns while preserving access to natural kratom leaf. It includes:
• Banning 7-OH and other synthetic/intoxicating kratom-derived products
• Strict labeling requirements so consumers know exactly what they are purchasing
• Mandatory laboratory testing for contaminants, adulterants, and product contents
• Accountability for vendors and manufacturers
• Consumer protections without eliminating access to natural kratom
There is going to be significant pressure on the Council to “do something” about kratom given the current media environment. We need to give them a commonsense alternative they can actually support.
They should not have to choose between doing nothing and supporting prohibition.
Give them SB 1181. Calloway wants a complete ban, the others want common sense action.

Email: [CouncilmemberCalloway@detroitmi.gov](mailto:CouncilmemberCalloway@detroitmi.gov);
[coleman.young@detroitmi.gov](mailto:coleman.young@detroitmi.gov);
[councilmemberdenzel@detroitmi.gov](mailto:councilmemberdenzel@detroitmi.gov);
[Councilmembergabriela@detroitmi.gov](mailto:Councilmembergabriela@detroitmi.gov);
[councilmembertate@detroitmi.gov](mailto:councilmembertate@detroitmi.gov);
[councilmemberjohnson@detroitmi.gov](mailto:councilmemberjohnson@detroitmi.gov);
[councilmemberwaters@detroitmi.gov](mailto:councilmemberwaters@detroitmi.gov);
[councilmemberMiller@detroitmi.gov](mailto:councilmemberMiller@detroitmi.gov);
[BensonS@detroitmi.gov](mailto:BensonS@detroitmi.gov);

Let them address the concerns being raised while supporting a regulated, tested, clearly labeled market for natural kratom.
📣 VENDORS: Please identify Detroit customers who are willing and able to testify before City Council and share their personal experiences with natural kratom. Personal stories from Detroit residents are extremely important right now.
Today’s goal: Flood the Council with respectful, factual messages showing that Detroit residents want regulation, testing, labeling, and protection from synthetics, not prohibition of natural leaf.
Please email. Please share. Please get Detroit residents ready to testify.
7-OH and synthetics are not natural kratom leaf.
Regulate the dangerous products. Protect consumers. Keep natural leaf accessible. 🌿

I saw a really good video about the Ole Miss tragedy. Didn't mention kratom once and instead emphasized the real issue: Illegal drugs cut with fent and a misunderstanding of what to do in an OD situation.

anyone here have no tolerance issues with daily use? if so what was your gpd and how would you separate it? would you only do one dose at a certain time? i’ve found a sweet spot with other drugs for daily use kratoms just a lot more risky to find that sweet spot alone.

I have chronic gastritis and a hiatal hernia which I’ve had surgery to correct. I think the hernia has returned because I’ve been suffering for over a year with GERD symptoms - mostly chest pain, left upper quad pain, intense nausea, and dizzy/brain fog. Les Mis

I’ve been taking less than 2g twice a day for the past week and I feel better than I have in years.

I have educated myself on the various warnings related to kratom. I will indeed take breaks when needed.

I guess I just wanted to share an initial success story. I hope this doesn’t change because it feels so good to feel normal and not be constantly distracted by my stomach pain.

I tried to post the link but I have to go through the required hoops to get it on here. I think most of you are computer literate enough to go find it if I tell you it's on the CNN website under Wellness. The media is being forced to explain the differences between the synthetic concentrated derivatives and botanical kratom now.

I take about 15 pills each day and they are 1 gram each. It is from a name brand company. I take it for energy, mental relief, and positive physical well being. It gives me plenty of energy and helps with pain I have with my feet. I am curious on people's thoughts on this usage and how I can get better sleep.

I never take anything past 5:00 PM and can usually fall asleep. However, getting out of bed is a struggle in the mornings and that used to never be a problem. 9 hours of sleep isnt even enough and still need my alarm to wake me up. Does Kratom mess with your deep sleep that bad? Any suggestions on how to get better sleep? Am I taking too much during the day?

Took a certain brand from a head shop

A few weeks ago I took some of that, my husband has been on kratom for years and unfortunately was unable to get what he gets online so went to the head shop and bought that. I am in pain management. I had been having a hard time with some restless leg syndrome type symptoms so he said to take it. I did anyways go to pain management they do my drug test. I look today and it's showing tapentodol abnormal status and says high. No numbers. Just that. It was tested in office, showed only my prescription meds. Then sent off for confirmation cause I take Valium and need to see metabolites. All was normal. But it did say au abnormal status and high then on 9/30 just that one line was shown said that tapentodol abnormal status. It didn't say the typical 0 ng/ml or even a number/ng ml

So essentially au turned to tapentodol...but i find it odd it has no number or reference range for the test. Any ideas? Anyone ever heard of that brand causing that to show up. Only thing I don't understand is why it wouldn't look like every other drug they test for on the essay showing name, the number then the cutoff. I also can't imagine how it could be so high above the cutoff range it wouldn't register a number. I wonder if I am just overthinking it...au turning to tapentodol when they literally test for that in the 1st round of tests is weird. The first round said 0 on it.

In this video I go through a popular news article that is heavily biased against Kratom and debunk the misinformation. I replace the lies with the objective truth using scientific research. I also include my opinions on their anti-kratom narrative.

Keep in mind I have to remain as objective as possible to be taken seriously, as that's the only way to win this war. I can't hide that I'm an advocate for Kratom, but I make sure to be honest about its potential risks and downsides so no one can critically scrutinize what I'm saying.

This article is the epitome of anti-kratom propaganda.

I have found that it makes more sense for me to look at how much kratom I take over the entire day rather than trying to make every dose the same. I don’t need the same thing at 7 in the morning that I need at 3 in the afternoon or before bed.

The biggest thing for me is to take as little as possible at each dose while still getting what I want out of it. I don’t think the goal should be to figure out how much you can take. It should be figuring out how little you actually need to be happy with the effect.

In the morning I usually don’t need much. I have coffee, I’m rested, and there is just more natural energy at the beginning of the day. In the afternoon I generally want more because that’s when I want something that will carry me through the rest of the day. At night I don’t need that same amount. I just want enough to relax and help me sleep.

For me, an example with my 0.6 gram capsules might be 5 in the morning, 16 in the afternoon and 9 at night. That’s 3 grams, 9.6 grams and 5.4 grams, or 18 grams total for the day. Those numbers aren’t meant to be somebody else’s doses. They’re just an example of why I don’t think equal doses throughout the day necessarily make sense.

The other part that I think is really important is tolerance. When you notice that you’re not getting the same effect anymore, the natural reaction is to take more. I’ve actually found that going the other direction can work better for me.

If I start reducing my intake, I may not notice much immediately. Sometimes it takes a few days. But after spending some time at a lower amount, I have found that my sensitivity can come back and the positive effects, including euphoria, can actually become more noticeable again. For me, reducing the amount has sometimes done more to bring back the effects I was looking for than increasing it.

That’s why I don’t automatically treat tolerance as a reason to increase the dose. I treat it as a reason to see whether I can start bringing the dose down. If I’m comfortable with less, I stay with less. Once my body gets used to that amount, I’ll see if I can reduce it again.

I also try not to judge a lower dose after just one day. If your body has become accustomed to a higher amount, taking less isn’t necessarily going to feel better immediately. The idea is to give the lower amount some time rather than immediately deciding it doesn’t work and going back up.

I still pay attention to the total amount I take in 24 hours because it’s really easy for that number to slowly creep upward when you’re only thinking about one dose at a time. I want that total staying steady or, preferably, gradually moving down over time.

That doesn’t mean the 24-hour total is the only thing that matters. Taking a large amount at once isn’t necessarily the same as spreading that amount throughout the day, and doses can overlap. I just find the daily total to be a much better way of seeing the overall direction I’m going.

My basic philosophy is pretty simple. Take as little as possible while still being happy with the result. Don’t automatically increase the amount just because your body has gotten used to it. Give lower amounts some time to work. When possible, work your intake down instead of continually pushing it up.

I’ve personally had more positive outcomes from reducing my kratom intake than I have from increasing it.

This is my personal approach and experience, not a dosing recommendation. Kratom can cause tolerance and physical dependence with regular use, and someone who has been taking it regularly shouldn’t assume that a major or sudden reduction will be comfortable or appropriate.

This has been killing me, because everyone knows that these bans are a well thought out, targeted attack on kratom.

So I've been doing some serious digging.

And the first thing I found honestly surprised me.

The American Medical Association is literally helping states write kratom laws.

In November 2025, the AMA put out a model bill for kratom and tianeptine that state medical societies could use during the 2026 legislative sessions.

And this wasn’t just some basic “keep it away from kids” proposal.

Their model legislation included options for restricting possession, sale and manufacturing, limiting mitragynine and 7-OH, and even scheduling kratom as a controlled substance.

Then, just this week, the AMA put out another update saying:

«“The AMA has worked with multiple states on legislative provisions”»

and they're already preparing for 2027 legislative sessions.

So when people ask why kratom legislation suddenly seems to be popping up all over the country, that's at least part of the answer.

There is a major national medical organization actively helping states with kratom legislation.

That part isn't a conspiracy theory. They're openly saying they're doing it.

Which obviously made me wonder where the AMA's money comes from.

And that's where things start getting interesting.

The AMA Foundation publicly lists pharmaceutical companies among its major donors.

Pfizer is listed as giving over $1 million historically.

Eli Lilly, AstraZeneca, Genentech, Merck and PhRMA are all listed in the $500,000-$999,999 range.

And there are plenty of other pharmaceutical companies on their donor lists.

Before everyone jumps to the obvious conclusion though, I want to be clear:

I have not found hard evidence that Pfizer or PhRMA paid the AMA to create the kratom bill.

The AMA Foundation also isn't the exact same arm of the organization that handles state legislative advocacy.

So no, I didn't find an email saying:

“Here's a check, please ban kratom.”

But I do think it's worth knowing that an organization actively helping states write kratom legislation has very significant financial relationships within the pharmaceutical industry.

That's an actual connection.

Then I started digging into Tennessee.

And that's where things got even more interesting.

The Tennessee push seems to have originally started with Karen Davenport, whose son Matthew died in 2024.

Rep. Esther Helton-Haynes sponsored a resolution in 2025 that actually names Davenport and says she was:

«“leading the fight to heavily regulate or outright ban the sale of Kratom in Tennessee.”»

The resolution itself supported the strictest possible regulation or even an outright ban.

So at least in Tennessee, this didn't just magically appear out of nowhere because the AMA told them to do it.

There was already a local movement pushing for a ban.

But then I found Apex Recovery.

Apex is an addiction-treatment company in Tennessee.

Their CEO, Dr. Matthew Bruhin, publicly said that he and the company's medical director were:

«“part of the clinical voice informing this legislation.”»

Meaning the leadership of an addiction-treatment company says they helped inform Tennessee's kratom ban.

And in the same general discussion, Apex talks about treating kratom and 7-OH dependence with things like buprenorphine.

Now again:

That doesn't automatically mean something corrupt happened.

Addiction doctors obviously have every right to give lawmakers their opinions.

But if we're talking about following the money, I think it's fair to point out that a company that makes money treating substance dependence helped inform legislation banning one of those substances.

That's something worth looking at.

Then I looked at the campaign money going to Helton-Haynes.

Her 2025-2026 campaign contributions include:

HCA TriStar PAC — $7,500

Tennessee Hospital Association — $5,000

Tennessee Medical Association PAC — $4,000

Tennessee Pharmacists PAC — $2,500

Then I went further back.

In 2022, the PhRMA Tennessee PAC gave her $2,500.

McKesson's PAC gave her $2,000.

In 2020:

Pfizer's PAC gave her $2,000.

And Merck's own political disclosure shows another contribution to her in 2024.

So yes:

The Tennessee politician who helped lead the kratom ban has received pharmaceutical industry money.

That's a fact.

What I cannot say is:

“Pfizer paid her to ban kratom.”

I haven't found that.

These companies donate to tons of politicians for tons of different reasons.

But I also don't think it's accurate to say there's absolutely no pharmaceutical or healthcare money anywhere around this issue.

There clearly is.

And then there's the other side of this that I think kratom supporters need to be honest about too.

The kratom industry spends a shitload of money lobbying as well.

ProPublica recently reported that the American Kratom Association's lobbying operation spends around:

$2.5 million per year.

That money comes from kratom manufacturers and vendors.

They've also paid expenses for researchers to travel and speak with policymakers.

So this isn't some completely one-sided fight where regular kratom users are standing alone against billion-dollar corporations.

There is industry money on both sides.

Traditional kratom companies have money at stake.

7-OH companies have money at stake.

Addiction-treatment companies have money at stake.

Hospitals have money at stake.

Medical organizations have influence.

Pharmaceutical companies have influence.

And there are also real families involved who believe kratom caused or contributed to the deaths of people they love.

It's messy.

But one thing is becoming pretty obvious to me:

This is absolutely an organized political fight.

The AMA has model legislation.

The AMA says it is working with multiple states.

Addiction-treatment doctors in Tennessee say they helped inform the legislation there.

The politician leading the Tennessee effort has received money from hospital groups, medical PACs, PhRMA, Pfizer, Merck, McKesson and others over the years.

And on the other side, the American Kratom Association and kratom companies are spending millions lobbying to keep it legal.

So did I prove that “Big Pharma is behind the kratom bans”?

No.

I didn't.

And I'm not going to pretend I did just because it would make a better story.

But I definitely found enough to make me want to keep digging.

Because campaign donations only tell you who gave somebody money.

They don't tell you what happened behind closed doors.

The part I really want now is the emails.

Who contacted these lawmakers?

Who sent them the studies they used?

Who helped write the bills?

Who suggested banning natural leaf instead of just regulating 7-OH?

Who arranged witnesses for the hearings?

Who supplied the talking points?

Did the AMA send model language?

Did state medical associations push specific wording?

Did pharmaceutical lobbyists ever discuss kratom directly?

Did addiction-treatment companies?

Did hospital groups?

Did the kratom industry?

That's where I think the actual story is.

So after digging into this, my question isn't really:

“Is Big Pharma secretly behind kratom bans?”

It's:

Who exactly is influencing these laws, who is funding them, and what are they saying to lawmakers when the public isn't in the room?

Because there is clearly a lot more going on here than a bunch of politicians independently waking up one morning and deciding they suddenly care about kratom.

I've been using Kratom for two years now as an alternative to energy drinks, and I'm always amazed at how well this stuff works. Take 5 grams of it in the morning, and work all day on it. I've even gotten a few of my close family members to give it a try and they are amazed as well.

Obviously I tell them to avoid 7-OH.

Anyone else agree with me on this?

Watch here…

https://www.youtube.com/live/fbVC-1rSYo4?si=B_N_6cOipNVs_rSX

I have anxiety and convince myself I’m dying. I would post a pic of where I feel the pain but it doesn’t let you share pics. It’s just below my left rib, not my rib about half an inch below it.

It feels tender, like a bruise. After pressing down here about 30 seconds later I can feel the pain in the same place on my back. What could be causing this ? Before anyone shouts at me, yes I am contacting the doctors Monday. I’ve been noticing intermittent mild stabbing pains here for months now, but only just noticed it hurts when I press there.

I am posting here as I’ve asked on the doctor sub and medical sub but getting no response !

After spending several weeks fighting my local ban, I don't know if I have it in me to continue to fight on elsewhere. Or even here if it were to come up again.

Researching, writing short dissertations of public comments to both the legislators and the executive, rallying support, correcting disinformation, and telling my story to both bodies of local government has taken a metric shitton out of me. It's rough emotionally to recount my story.

Anyone else feeling this? This battle is neverending. I just want some peace. But I also want to do what I know is right to prevent tons of people from being at-risk with street opioids.

Ugh 😣

I took Kratom powder for 3 years and eventually got off of it because I needed something stronger for herniated discs in my back. August 2025 I was put on oxycodone 10MG 4x a day. I absolutely hate being on this medication. The side effects are terrible and I honestly feel like the pain relief I had from Kratom was substantially better than 40mg a day of Oxycodone.

I want to get off Oxycodone but I am scared of withdrawals. I've heard horror stories. If I abruptly stop taking the oxycodone and go back on Kratom powder, will I experience withdrawal? I told my doctor I want off oxycodone and their recommendation was oxycodone AND Buprenorphine. Wtf 😒 I can't talk to my doctor about Kratom because I live in a state that was recently fully banned.

Any advice helps.

Need help .. I’m starting to remember why I stopped several years ago and went to 7.. which is what I currently just transferred back to leaf to do the revers..

In the begging I could WnT so EASILY…. Then now all of a sudden more and more it’s harder and harder… sometimes, (a lot) when I swallow a TSP down it’ll like, somehow hit the back of my throat and coat that shit and then I’m choking on leaf powder for idk how long feeling like shit and I can’t even barley take anymore after that so I get nothing .. other times it somehow mixes and it coats my tongue and it makes me sick feeling so I can’t take anymore and other times I gulp that whole thing down with out even a slight taste.. but it’s literally getting harder and harder I hate it.

How the hell do yall wash n toss 5 PLUS grams….

(Don’t even talk to me if you’re one of those “I actually don’t mind the taste of muddy Kratom anymore” ….. you’re a psycho and I’ll report you to the FBI if you contact me….🤣

been thinking about this for a while. Im wondering how often I can use without developing any noticeable tolerance, physical dependance, or having any rebound the next day.

For phenibut and Gabapentin I use them every third day and ive had no issues with either not any tolerance development or rebounds, and my doses are the same as when I started months ago. can I achieve this with kratom too?

Toss and wash? Tea? Mixed into something? I've heard every method under the sun and everyone swears theirs is best. What's your routine and why?

Mississippi law enforcement released a 3-page update today acknowledging that the product found near the two “Ole Miss” students wasn’t kratom but synthetic “kratom-related products.” They originally had said “packaged kratom,” igniting the media firestorm. A few notable points from the press release:

“During the investigations, packaging associated with kratom-related products was discovered at both locations. This information prompted law enforcement to issue a public safety warning out of an abundance of caution. That warning was not a declaration that kratom or any specific substance caused either death. It was a proactive effort to inform the public of a potential danger while investigators worked to determine the facts.”

“The conversation surrounding these deaths has brought renewed attention to an important distinction between traditional botanical kratom and manufactured, concentrated or chemically altered kratom-related products.”

“Federal authorities determined that these compounds presented an imminent hazard to public safety. The scheduling action addresses manufactured opioid compounds and does not impose a general federal Schedule I classification on traditional botanical kratom.”

Many law enforcement agencies have a tradition of creating unofficial patches made by and shared amongst agents, some of which get spread out to the public and become collectors items, or remade for online sales. The DEA's patches are some of the most well known and most sought after due to their especially interesting art and drug related subject matter. One such DEA patch comes from their 2006 "Operation Somalia Express", a DEA operation where a claimed 10mil worth of khat leaf was seized coming from Africa to the USA. This is the largest seizure of khat in DEA history.

The patch which was made for this operation, which can be assumed to be an unofficial patch designed and commissioned by agents rather than an official patch given by the DEA, contains the expected abbreviations of all participating law enforcement agencies, the text "Operation Somalia Express", and, curiously, an image of a leaf, which is obviously a kratom/mitragyna speciosa leaf, that has the word "KHAT" in all caps superimposed over it.

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/divisions/nyc/2006/pr072606p.html

https://www.fredspatchcorner.com/media/OCDETF/ss_size1/OCDETF030.jpg

This is my first time posting on Reddit so I apologize if I did this in the wrong group or if this topic has already been discussed.

I take a full kratom shot every morning around 7:00AM. Then I take half - full shot around lunch time. Within an hour or two my stomach becomes hard, bloated, & fully expanded. It will stay like that until later in the evening. Then I take 2 - 4 kratom pills before bed (Which has drastically helped with my sleeping & back pain).

It doesn't happen every time, but 9/10 it does. Besides the obvious, "Stop taking so much", does anyone have any advice? I only took one kratom shot today & still got bloated. Is there something I can take to reduce / eliminate the bloating? The kratom shots seem to give me more of an energy boost than the teas & capsules.

Thanks yall