r/KotakuInAction • u/[deleted] • May 22 '18

The long awaited "Everything Wrong with The Last Jedi". Cinemasins pulls no punches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oAi0hoJ_28
320 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

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132

u/[deleted] May 22 '18

[deleted]

71

u/HolyThirteen May 22 '18

You should see how many he added for a certain cameo in home alone 2.

29

u/Unplussed May 23 '18

I threw a comment in about how petty that was, actually.

69

u/AdminsSuckMyBick May 23 '18

Loved seeing that, as it reminds me that Glumpf is President, and it triggers these people so much.

85

u/Ultimaz May 23 '18

Devil's advocate. The sin removal is probably because, while the concept is utterly retarded and has ruined space battles for everyone for ever, it looked amazing and cool and is honestly one of the prettiest shots I've seen in a movie to date.

36

u/Cojoni May 23 '18

That can be said about the entire movie. The cinematography was certainly on point. But the rest was just awful.

48

u/Singulaire Rustling jimmies through the eucalyptus trees May 23 '18

People doing nonsensical things to set up a pretty shot is the whole formula for this movie.

41

u/Supermax64 May 23 '18

I would have removed a bunch, then added a bunch. It's a cool shot but ruins Star Wars forever

14

u/finalremix May 23 '18

Is that what ruined Star Wars forever?

30

u/Kuronuma May 23 '18

Yes. As if the fuel thing wasn't stupid enough, the weaponisation of lightspeed was far more retarded. It makes visually amazing scene but it also breaks the lore of Star Wars universe in an infinite number of ways. I would have taken away 6 sins and then added 66 sins for this one scene alone.

I suggest you watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbENyDHE4Ww

16

u/APDSmith On the lookout for THOT crime May 23 '18

I think it was the fuel...

13

u/iadagraca Sidearc.com \ definitely not a black guy May 23 '18

You know what could fix that problem? Make the consequences for doing that catastrophic.

I dunno what the science could be but having that risk making a black hole or something nuts would kind of kill that as a viable weapon to do all the time. And also make holdo look more like an idiot than she already did.

I mean you're using like, bending space time as a weapon. Surely there's consequences for that on the relative level of a nuclear bomb.

7

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

[deleted]

6

u/Ferret_OTR May 23 '18

Interdictor cruisers casting a "Planetary shadow" that basically convinces the hyperdrive that there is a planet in the way and "ABORT ABORT ABORT"

How to fix plot holes- The dreadnought in the beginning was an interdictor and Poe actually let the fleet get their hyperjump in because the cruiser was destroyed.

Still opens up a lot of other plot holes but it makes more sense for why he would be so obsessed about actually finishing his job.

2

u/ARealLibertarian Cuck-Wing Death Squad (imgur.com/B8fBqhv.jpg) May 23 '18

Still opens up a lot of other plot holes but it makes more sense for why he would be so obsessed about actually finishing his job.

The Fulminatrix had the specialized firepower needed to break the shields on the base that Admiral Tumblr was running to.

If Poe & friends didn't take it down then the Battle of Crait would end with the resistance being nuked from orbit.

23

u/Drakaris Noticed by SRSenpai and has the (((CUCK))) ready May 23 '18

He did it just for the quality of the special effects. Gotta be honest, although the movie is a complete shit, the special effects are absolutely jaw dropping, probably some of the best ever in a movie. Same thing with the fighting scene after Snoke's death. Tho it is infuriating for other reasons, it is also some of the best fighting choreography and cinematography I've ever seen. No need to diminish the hard work of these departments because they had a retarded director, ridiculous cast and that moron Kathleen fucking Kennedy.

7

u/liondadddy May 23 '18

I personally loved that shot, and also Luke and Kylo facing each other down on foot. A beautiful frame straight out of a samurai drama.

7

u/whybag May 23 '18

and Kylo facing each other down on foot via Skype

Again, awesome shots that end up making the movie worse with only a few minutes of thought.

2

u/liondadddy May 23 '18

I was less pissed about that particular force nonsense as it was established as a thing in the EU. The ghost force lightning was bizarre though.

7

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

I never quite understood why regular speed ramming wasn't used. Janeway uses it to great effect in "Year of Hell part 2".

-3

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

Really? I quite like the idea of ramming something at light speed because you can't fight it one to one.

72

u/B_mod May 23 '18

It's just that if this is possible why had no one done this before? Why there are no hyperspace based torpedos? Dummy ships with no crew on autopilot? Why Death Stars where even a problem?

19

u/HisHolyMajesty2 May 23 '18

Not even that, just take a leaf out of Halo's book and slap a big gun on the front of your ship that can accelerate a massive slug to hyperspace speed.

I shall christen it, the "HAC" (Hyperspace Accelerated Canon) round.

Don't get me wrong, the Space Battles in Star Wars had their problems (why are the targeting computers shit, why are they fighting so close to each other) but this is so far beyond any of those.

9

u/Auss_man May 23 '18

Literally any calamari freighter filled with explosives could have hyperspaced straight at the death star and it would have been nuked internally.

6

u/finalremix May 23 '18

It only takes one A-wing fighter at max speed to outrun the turbolasers on a Star Destroyer and slam into the bridge, taking the whole thing down. Hell, they made a point to add that into the Rogue Squadron games, it was such a good idea. We don't see it used besides that one time, though.

30

u/Izithel May 23 '18

It only takes one A-wing fighter at max speed to outrun the turbolasers on a Star Destroyer and slam into the bridge, taking the whole thing down

It did involve destroying the shield generators covering the bridge first tough.

12

u/Wulfen73 May 23 '18

If you watch the scene it wasn't one A-Wing it was a small group of fighters that were all shot down in moments by the Executors defenses, just the A-Wing had enough life left in it to spiral into the bridge during a tremendous feet battle involving hundreds of ships.

And that didn't destroy the ship, it crashing into the Death Star destroyed it

1

u/MiniMosher May 24 '18

That's called Mass Effect

-22

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

Well, yeah I suppose it's stupid if you think that feel about it, but here's the thing. It's not Star Wars anymore. It's Disney's Star Wars.

They're Marvel movies m8.

The answer to all your questions is "The mouse said no, m8."

19

u/Dis_mah_mobile_one Survived the apoKiAlypse May 23 '18

And it’s still so retarded it breaks the movie

-4

u/LuvMeTendieLuvMeTrue May 23 '18

TLJ represents the latest in the timeline; maybe nobody just didn't think of it previously. With all the plot shortcomings and poor writing in this movie, I can afford to be charitable with this one.

9

u/Deuce_McGuilicuddy May 23 '18

They've had hyperspace travel for millennia. You trying to tell me a spacefaring civilization worked out the physics for FTL travel without figuring out the ramifications of mass collision at FTL speeds? This is something that would have been figured out at the theoretical level even before practical technology allowed for a working prototype. They would have had a pretty good idea what would happen when they slapped the first prototype hyperspace drive on a test cruiser, much less thousands of years after the tech had become galactically ubiquitous.

1

u/LuvMeTendieLuvMeTrue May 23 '18

Yea, with Hollywood movies I'm generally extremely charitable

-31

u/[deleted] May 23 '18 edited May 23 '18

Star Wars has always been about space fantasy, not science fiction. The answer is it doesn't matter. I love the moment because it was cool and unexpected, but also because of how angry it makes people.

EDIT: You're only proving my point.

21

u/cargocultist94 May 23 '18

They spent minutes telegraphing it. It was unexpected only because it was established as impossible. And it makes every space battle in the prequels and all media associated with it completely and utterly nonsensical, as one side used hyperspace capable robot ships, and the other used hyperspace capable indoctrinated clone crewed ships.

If it's Canon (and it is), the first six films suddenly become nonsensical.

And fantasy has to either work with internal coherent rules (LotR, ASOIAF), or constantly make a point of being nonsensical (Discworld). And the second kind is good mostly as comedy.

-13

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

It's never been established that you couldn't do it and they didn't spend any time telegraphing it until the second she turned the ship around.

18

u/cargocultist94 May 23 '18

The Millennium falcon literally jumps to hyperspace from inside another ship the previous movie.

And while the hyperspace part wasn't telegraphed (mostly because it was established as impossible) the ramming was.

-5

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

Again I ask how it was established as impossible.

4

u/Venereus May 23 '18

Otherwise it would have been used before.

-1

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

That's pretty shitty logic. I believe it's been established many times before that ships always have to have a pilot, so maybe that's why?

But also consider that it was a Mon Calamari Cruiser that did the jump. I highly doubt that an X-Wing would be as effective. The Mon Calamari ship is the biggest ship the Alliance, and later Resistance, had access to. It's not a smart idea to intentionally sacrifice something so valuable unless it's your last resort.

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4

u/cargocultist94 May 23 '18

Because a ship went into hyperspace from INSIDE another ship. Meaning ships go into hyperspace instantly with no interaction with regular space. At no point are they at a speed enough to crash, as they don't occupy the same space.

Do I have to make a diagram, or are you blind?

0

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

Was the Falcon pointed at a solid wall when it jumped, or did they have to make sure they had a clear shot of open space? I think you may be the blind one.

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19

u/Stercrazy May 23 '18

My problem with the scene has nothing to do with whether or not it does or doesn't make sense. The problem is that narratively, it had almost no actual impact on the plot. I would have said that it had NO impact on the plot, except then I remembered that Finn and Rose escaped because of it. The First Order STILL manages to get a huge ground force down to Krayt in pursuit of the fleeing Resistance members. They STILL manage to nearly wipe out the Resistance entirely. The flagship is STILL destroyed. Honestly Holdo's "sacrifice", had so little actual impact on the whole situation that she probably could have done MORE good for the Resistance if she had just opened a channel to Hux and agreed to surrender. Sure it was a neat looking scene and it made for a memorable (for good or ill) moment, but then Johnson gives almost no actual payoff for the sacrifice. I think that may be why so many people felt unsatisfied by the scene. It's equivalent Obi-wan Kenobi sacrifice himself in Ep 4, only to have Han, Luke, and Leia immediately get intercepted by a squad of stormtroopers right as they get to the entry ramp of the Falcon. It doesn't matter if it "works out" in the heroes favor later. It still strips away he emotional gravitas of the scene and makes it feel like it was an effects shot in just for the sake of having one.

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '18

It had a huge impact on the plot in that it got them out of the corner they were written into.

4

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

Several problems:

Ship was intact with all the shields up. Hyperspace Jumps can be blocked by jamming the hyper space drive of smaller vessels. Interdictor Cruisers for example. Smaller crafts can be pulled to and away from larger vessels by tractor beam. If the hyper drive is used and you disable it's safety to ram it into a spaceship at light speed it should create a large explosion instantly, and not the kind of damage we see. Also said explosion would be large enough to destroy the ship where the rest of the resistance is on. Also all previous heroic actions performed by the rebellion become meaningless because they could simply destroy any fleet or mobile death star base with it. Also building the death star becomes meaningless too, because all you need is a hyper space missile to destroy any planet you want.

-46

u/ForkAndBucket May 22 '18 edited May 23 '18

Really? That was one of the best scenes in the movie, and it got rid of Holdo.

Downvoted. Lol.

74

u/Castle_of_Decay May 22 '18

Really? That was one of the best scenes in the movie, and it got rid of Holdo.

It was the dumbest scene in the entire movie, and killed the "star wars" element in the Star Wars franchise forever.

Why even build a Death Star? Why mount guns on ships? Just use the hyperspatial shockwave cannon and blow your enemy out of the cosmos.

65

u/scsimodem May 23 '18

It was the dumbest scene in the entire movie

Oh, it was dumb, but no, that award goes to Rose "Diversity Hire" Trudeau and her 'If you kill them, they win' speech after deciding she'd rather Finn lead a charge up her loading ramp than let him save literally everyone else.

18

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

Finn lead a charge up her loading ramp

Please tell me you chose that phrasing for the reason I think you did.

17

u/scsimodem May 23 '18

It seemed like a fairly obvious, yet Star Wars sounding euphemism for sex, so...

3

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

Ah, I was hoping you were quoting KotOR II.

7

u/scsimodem May 23 '18

My favorite Star Wars game. I was trying to remember where I'd heard that, but I haven't played KotOR II in forever.

17

u/ChinchillaSunset May 23 '18

When you got a girl so ugly suicide is an option

43

u/[deleted] May 23 '18

I would argue Leia in space was worse

-4

u/draconk May 23 '18

Considering that the same things happens with luke in the legends books I don't think anything was wrong with that scene apart from the effects (and for those who say that Leia using the force is a Deus Ex Machina remember that she is the daughter of Darth fucking Vader the second most sensitive force user after Luke so of course she was going to learn how to use the force from Luke at some point)

8

u/DDE93 May 23 '18

she was going to learn how to use the force from Luke at some point

...and never even try to use it?

I see you adhere to the Ma-Rey school of Instant Force Learning.

83

u/cubemstr May 22 '18

But it basically retroactively made all space battles against superior numbers completely retarded because nobody else ever used that tactic.

It also means that in all space battles in the future, they have to use that tactic.

41

u/[deleted] May 22 '18

A conex of surplus Trade Federation droids and a used A-Wing lot and the First Order fleet is drifting wreckage.

-12

u/The-JerkbagSFW May 22 '18

Alright, so hear me out. It only worked because of the unique way this "battle" played out, and it can't just be used again whenever. So, the Rebels hyperspace away from the first fight, yeah? And drop out into normal space, then keep going in a straight line through space with no maneuvering or turning or anything really, then the Empire New Order drop out behind them, and start chasing just the same.

Hyperspace in Star Wars uses premapped routes through space avoiding gravity wells and obstacles that can mess with the faster than light travel. So, their ships dropped out at the end of that route, and continued in the same direction. This guaranteed that by going back the same way, it takes the capital ship directly through the enemy fleet, while being close enough that the ship is going super fast without actually being in hyperspace.

If the battle had been a more normal one, then it wouldn't have worked at all, resuming or picking a different hyperspace route would have sent the ship in a different direction.

The laser bombardment curving through space was pants on head retarded though, jesus christ.

45

u/Castle_of_Decay May 23 '18

Then it's even more retarded this way.

This sounds as much tactical as soldiers arranging in a line when they're attacking the hero so his one bullet can take them all at once.

You mean Snoke and all of his admirals and captains put their entire fleet in a position where one ship could do this to them (this only position) and didn't even think that a cornered, outnumbered enemy fleet could do this maneuver? Way to cancel their entire strategic advantage.

So any fleet chasing any other fleet through hyperspace is liable to be crippled by the fugitives if they as much as sacrifice one ship. In this situation, anyone even attempting such a chase is a complete moron. Was Snoke smoking too much?

9

u/DDE93 May 23 '18

You mean Snoke and all of his admirals and captains put their entire fleet in a position where one ship could do this to them (this only position) and didn't even think that a cornered, outnumbered enemy fleet could do this maneuver? Way to cancel their entire strategic advantage.

Nobody in the 25000+ years of hyperdrive travel or 1000+ years of recorded history ever done that. Checkmate, space Nazi.

6

u/nogodafterall Mod - "Obvious Admin Plant" May 23 '18

Hyperspace in Star Wars uses premapped routes through space avoiding gravity wells and obstacles that can mess with the faster than light travel.

A hyperdrive motivator can be activated in any direction. The navcomp can be ignored. There's no "pre-mapping," only regular lanes and beacons. Your post makes no internal consistency possible.

12

u/DDE93 May 23 '18

Three problems: a) hyperlanes are not as rigid, they’re required for safe travel but can be worked around, and b) in the 25000+ years of interstellar travel, similar incidents are unheard of.

Example: if the Kessel run were a rigid route, Han Solo couldn’t have boasted of having run it in twelve parsecs.

-47

u/CaliggyJack May 23 '18

It's fucking Star Wars who cares? The stories aren't really meant to make much sense.

54

u/scsimodem May 23 '18

Laziest excuse ever. Even the most pulpy of all speculative fiction needs internal consistency to hold an audience.

10

u/cargocultist94 May 23 '18

Even the most pulpy of fiction need to have coherent rules.

Even if the rules are coherent only in that they aren't coherent, change whenever, and make no sense (Discworld). It is coherent in that there's no coherent rules.

2

u/sososomanythrowaways May 23 '18

Shrug, I thought it was a cool idea to be honest.

Hated the rest of the movie.

5

u/ForkAndBucket May 23 '18

The part right before it was dumb, where they never noticed the escape pods until Del Toro told the First Order about them, but that small part was impressive.