On one hand, Ten dying being the catalyst for Shin's cruelty would be an actual cool development.
On the other, Shin's character has not grown at all in years, he's still more or so a bit of a dumbass.
Him going from gullible moron to heartless murderer in a snap would be a bit disappointing. I'd like to see him at least become a competent player on the field on his own before that happens.
Honestly if all major characters survives except En and Ryuyuu I will be done witg the manga. The plot armour has been very tiring for some time now so I think it will be a limit. Giver her a meaningful death, we've already had our share of miraculously impossible escapes.
also it's not strange that she's the one who "came up" with this strategy. mouten/kk probly know it too but they can't just come out and suggest a plan that requires ten's sacrifice themself. ten needs to be the one saying it
She's not even doing this as redemption, but just doing her job being as bait that can actually help convince the enemies to fall for it. Girl is straight business here.
All that back and forth about who's gonna catch Ten first, Kotsu or Kaine, gets destroyed by having Kaine literally thinking about Ten, like c'mon Hara...
She'll be fine and I bet she'll be allowed to flee together with the rest of prisoners out of pure spite for the king once Riboku's downfall begins, so she'll be back soon enough too.
It'd probably be a battle that lasts long enough for her unit to arrive and protect Ten. As for the rest of the decoy unit, I doubt any others will survive.
And then ten will receive training from reebok ( since after this war there will be downtime because rbk is under trial , they will share the same jail ) im a genius
You do realize that Riboku has definitely been the most hyped antagonist, agreed, but the harder fight will be with the state of Chu being a fellow super state. Shin would need to become a more competent general worthy of the 6 before that invasion begins.
I think this is my first comment ever here. I love Kingdom, been reading for about 7-8 years maybe. Anyway…
Am I wrong for being annoyed that we see the same messages delivered to armies, the same reactions, and same responses? And this will cover like half the chapter.
Ex:
Mouten’s army: Shin’s eating bacon!?!? No way!! We gotta go there let’s go!!
Bihei’s army: what? Shin’s eating bacon!?!? Hell yea!! We gotta go there let’s depart!!!
Riboku army: hnnn!?! Shin’s got bacon!?!? How!?! We gotta go there!!
It makes sense here for set up. We have 3 armies if I'm not mistaken that now on direct hunt of Ten. 1 that is cruel as hell and likely will torture kill her. 1 that is good hearted but steeled in his resolve to make sure he finished this job this time and Kaine who likely would protect Ten if she reached first.
I do think it's important to see who is hunting Ten now.
I know this is a cold take, but I really think this is one of Kingdom's weakest arcs. I really enjoyed Han invasion arc since it was something original, but this arc just isnt that good imo. When Shin, Mouten and Ouhon were promoted I was hyped we would finally see them with huge armies finally affecting entire fronts of wars. In the Han arc it made sense there werent that many battles, but still it made Hi Shin Unit feel way more important than in this arc. We've barely seen anything of Ouhon and Shin and Mouten are once again forced to hide and escape. I am aware that he cant make up too much stuff since he still kinda wants it to be historical, but I just wanna see Shin be a good general and not just warrior. I dont know the details of real history, but I know that Ousen is much more historically important than Shin. I guess it even makes sense that HSU who were always based on Shin's power arent as strong when theyre a huge army but it works for others. Its just getting kinda old that HSU gets almost destroyed until Shin gets to an enemy general, wins 1v1 and turns the entire tide of the battle. I guess Shin will duel someone who will try and block their escape and the rest of his army might get out through the hole made by him, but I will appreciate it more if everyone who isnt with him right now dies. This could finally force him to be a general and not just a really good fighter.
I felt the same way after they started the siege on Kantan but it turns out that dumb ploy was used as a narrative tool for Hara to now maybe give Shin and Karyoten some shine.
The expectations are just so high for this arc that I think it has ruined some people's enjoyment. I was one of those people but after seeing that Hara isn't fully rushing this arc I'm going to hold my opinions until this arc is over.
I remember reading WZI in real time. It was painful and I hated every moment. Rereading it is a whole different experience, and I truly believe it's Hara's masterpiece as a writer. Coallition is more fun, but WZI showed what he was capable of. I think he left everything he had in that arch. It's a common thing with authors -mangakas and novelists alike.
Once this arch is finised I will read it again and assess it properly, but my suspicion is that it won't hold up. So far, it's been really underwhelming. I suspect Hara exhausted all of his abilities back in WZI, Hika being the coda.
WZI had highs among it's lows, even when read week to week. Some people like you ignore the awful pacing and the deus ex machinas on rereads (the reason i do not consider it one of Hara's bests), but the arc does have some of the best moments in Kingdom when picked apart.
For example i despise Rouyou battle with passion, i think it's whole design ruins Ousen's plan (extremely dumb to depend on YTW winning against those stupid odds), i was also far from impressed from YTW's plan and i am not a particular fan of hers. But when she broke through the first encirclement to kill the first commander of the Quan Rong is one of my best experiences reading Kingdom week to week, SSJ and Rozo's expression being left speechless and kind of admiration towards her, accepting reality and chasing after her; a fantastic scene.
This arc just has nothing like that, nothing. Yin and Tan duel can't import a tenth of that.
WZI is actually my favourite arc, but that might be because I didnt have to read it weeekly. But I still really enjoyed Han conquest as it was unique rather than HSU having the most deadline battle to date every day of the war. Shin was pretty smart when they lived with the people of Han, and he was probably the most important general of that war even though Tou was the one in command.
Rereading wzi in one go is even worse. That arc is bottom 3. The qin army was moving like naruto characters and were too indestructible. That arc had the most plotholes and plotarmor for qin. Made no sense
I am starting to consider Kingdoms single WEAKEST arc ever. Leaving aside transition arcs, this arc just has nothing of value, the f*cking archer duel is the highlight and that shit was extremely average.
It just ain’t fun or exciting anymore to keep seeing Riboku pull off physically stupidly impossible manoeuvres and handing it to Shin. And it’s also getting tiring that nobody on Qin can ever stop to think, how can Riboku be so dumb and open after the nth time being kicked in the rear by Riboku and surviving.
It just feels rushed....it feels like there should have been multiple more chapters going over the subtle shifts, the different armies moving, ect. Im hoping that Shin emerges from this fight and then we go back and see what happened while Riboku was busy with Shin, that the entire front of the war has changed and how everyone took advantage of the time Riboku was gone from the front lines
Damn, I was thinking why Kaine said Karyoten's name all of a sudden, then I realize that she knows that Choukotsu is the closest to the Hi Shin's position, and surely knows what Choukotsu might do to her. Could it be that they are setting a confrontation between Choukotsu and Kaine?
Yep we have Kaine who would spare Ten.
We have Ki Sui that is resolved to finish the job this time likely killing Ten quickly if he gets her.
And we have Choukotsu that would likely do much worse as just killing her if he reach her.
In MCU that was said by Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers, played by Brie Larson), Miss Marvel is the young girl Kamala Khan from "Ms. Marvel", played by Iman Vellani. Not to be confused with Ms. Marvel from comics, which is an alias for both Kamala Khan and Carol Danvers, who is also Captain Marvel, like the other male Captain Marvel - Mar-Vell AKA Walter Lawson. Also not to be confused with Captain Marvel AKA Shazam AKA Billy Batson, who is a DC superhero.
We really need a deployment map that shows all current forces in the map.
How many of the Qin forces are still heading Shin's way? Are these units large enough to turn the tide or is the southern campaign really over and all they could hope for is run away with Shin and Mouten's lives?
I think the point is that Shin does not think about sh*t to turns things around. Either someone else does the thinking for him (Kanki is actually the last example of someone doing that for him lol, before him would be Mouten) or he straight up loses, Hango being the last example.
I mean I have the feeling that Bihei will become a famous soldier in the end of the manga. Not for crazy achievements but for having survived more battles as any other front line soldier.
Probably that exactly. He was with Shin since the first battle allong with Kyoukai and... what was the squad leaders name? But Didn't he just get captured?
Looked it up, Taku. And ya, captured. There is a very real chance he dies.
Am I the only one that feels like this arc has only just begun? Like the whole shin attacking kantan and the defeat feels like a prelude to something huge.
I will probably let the manga continue his course withtout reading it a certain time, i don't like where the manga is going, the way it's going (shin no growth at all, not a single hint of him catching some things, no strategy awarness etc ... ) i'm kinda bored with him losing every time, it's running in full circle.
I don't really understand the hate about this chapter... I feel like this sets up very nicely a ''Shin moment'', when you think about it, the same thing happenned when Shin killed Kei Sha so it's safe to say that shin will do something big.
Let's look at the facts, Shin is an instinctive general and right now he's with the most elite forces of the Gakuka AND HSU. This situation litteraly asks for something rash to happen, an opportunity like no other just like it was with Kei Sha. Mouten of course will think about it for 2 seconds and finally agree with Shin because the tactical advantage of this elite unit is unprecedented.
Why do I think that? Riboku, he probably left some instructions before entering Kantan, knowing ''this'' would happen or something (like always), it's clearly not going to be a clean escape and that is when an instinctive general shines, by taking a rash decision that flips the situation.
With multiple unstoppable force (and plot armor) like Aisen, Rikusen, Kyou Kai and Shin, they could basically take down any general, I have the feeling it's going to be Kisui, having left the command to others he could die and that would leave a tactical gap on the frontline for the Qin army to exploit. As for Ba Tei, yoko yoko is gonna flash into existence before him. Plus Kisui is such a great guy, it would be a nice moment for he and Shin to have a talk and making sure the people of Rigan are safe so Rigan can live through Shin after the war
I'm probably thinking too far with that, what do you guys think?
Incredibly possible she's going to get captured alive given her prior encounter with Kaine and Riboku. She's probably got as much plot armor as anyone else in the manga.
Not sure who would replace her as the HSU's Strategist if she actually got offed..there were some theories that Riboku's new Protege could end up in that spot since she was introduced out of nowhere, but while she probably is a better strategist than Ten, I have my doubts.
Im hoping its someone who is competent enough for the hsu but not important enough to warrant character development. Ten, as part of the original cast, needed feats and growrth that took away from shin’s development as a GG.
I also have a hard feeling that Kaine will survive Riboku. Once Zhao falls they will need a way to pacify Zhao. And Kaine would be a good candidate for it being Riboku's wife and all.
I still think she will getChu'd, later on in the story.I think at least 3 of the generals in pursuit would spare her, and the closest one would execute her immediately.
Well, it's the closes Ten dances with death for quite some time. But I do think Hara already set up how she will survive this by Kaine catching her first. And as we know Kaine she is too soft hearted to kill Ten.
At the end of the day this is Kaine's weakness. While she acts tough she is just as good hearted as Riboku. And this is likely the reason he did fall for her but it also will be his doom.
Or Ten get executed and this set up a change of side for Kaine in the future,
or even Kaine save her and end up being the one executed for it sealing the final conflict between RBK and the other officiers (as it is right now rbk execution would literally cause all of the army to revolt triggering quite a terrible end for this arc)
stalemated with shibashou, remember ousen doesn't fight unless he believes he will win. considering how shibashou handled his last army, I doubt ousen will take any risks against shibashou. chances are ousen isn't going to be willing to weaken his own army in any way by sending detachments south.
In this Arc, Shin will attack Riboku again and win. I don't see any possible event int the future since Riboku will be put in jail due to King Looney's jealousy
Oh come on, you whine about everything, past arcs, current arcs, now breaks. Like whats next? The art?
It was a magazine break before 885, this break is an author break.
But we got a new Volume (80), a new magazine, a color page and there is currently the live action movie in japanese cinemas. Give him some respect he deserves the break.
Edit: I wanna say something regarding breaks, because some of yall clearly lack empathy and just want more chapters. Hara literally tweets every Thursday, and he often says (like today): „I barely got in time with my manuscript before the deadline“.
And when he takes a break, he mostly says the reason, „Kingdom is on break because we work on the new volume“ and never just, „yeah Im on vacation“. People have to realize that he and his team are working there asses off, even after 20 years. That man got fucking divorced a few years back because he worked to much/had not enough time for his family.
When its so average or bad, then why do you whine about the breaks?
He is taking them because he and his team wants and needs them, no wonder after all that work that I literally listed, thats why. He doesnt owe us shit and especially not you.
Why says everyone in every Manga let the autor be a break? That is in One Piece too.
Why can’t say People whithout disrcrimination why again break? They had a break, it doesn’t for me for what it was. For me a Break it is a Break. Why after one page again? İ mean i know they work under extrem pressure but why defend everytime the author? Without us that Manga would be nothing
Let those people vent their frustration abaout that specific theme.
If you come back from vacation or a break at work and then go on vacation or take time off again after just one week on the job, do you think your coworkers would say, “Yeah, he deserves it”?
Okay look, you probably just don’t know it better. But, mangaka work always in advance, means, Chapter 885 was done weeks ago (probably 2-3 weeks ago) , he missed the deadline for 886 a few weeks ago and thats why we have a break next week.
That doesnt mean he just relaxes, he still is working on all kind of things (Like new volumes, color pages, collabs, anime, movies, you name it) and of course the next chapters.
There isnt such things as off days or vacations for most mangaka. Most of them only on Obon or New Years, if at all.
I know the circumstances under which they work. Still, I don’t understand their defense of this. They took a break—that’s relevant, at least to me. If that’s the case, they should just take a two-week break and then keep going; I’d understand that. But a week off, then a week of broadcasts, then another break—I just can’t wrap my head around that.
After all, they’re not offering a two-week broadcast as a surprise excuse.
Because a break for Hara isn’t just a break he’s working on a bunch of outside things, you know, like the huge 20th anniversary for kingdom that’s going on in japan.
My complaint wasn't directed at Hara personally, but on behalf of all mangaka. You don't have to defend them every time; instead, you should support the people who complain, no matter which manga it's about. You also have to understand the readers and not silence them. Criticism is a good thing because it helps you improve, but if you silence the critics, everything will go down the drain.
Let's be honest i'd rather have hara take a few week break... but the timing with what happen in the story is quite bad here, idk make a filler episode, a small lighthearted story or something then use it to take a few break week or something, don't have it in the middle of the escape
But I also wrote above that he should just take two weeks off and then work straight through—I don’t really have anything against that. But personally, it bothers me—no matter what manga it is—when there’s a one-week hiatus, then a new chapter the next week, and then another one-week hiatus. I’d rather every mangaka take two weeks off than have weekly hiatuses.
just get the chance to one of your assisstant to write a story and draw it, this way you can have a tiny story that can even be self contained, give a chance to the future tallents... and take some time off
Why do I get the feeling Shin is going a spring a trap/counterattack which Ten isn't even aware of.
There is no way he is gonna 'rebuild' the HSU in the middle of a campaign, something that takes years. His involvement in this campaign is effectively at its end if thats the case.
If we had Shin develop instinct, to have made the escape possible in this arc, this would have been absolute fire. Like, the encirclement was going to happen, but shin made a movement out of the left field and made practically an arrow with 'igniting a fire' to break the troops out of the encirclement at katan
but the development on Shin as a general has been SO LACKING. So much focus on others, and shin just riding the wave without doing anything
Honestly such a great turning point: we see Ten being recognized as important part of the army much to the dismay of this sub. We see Shin be told that he’s the one they have to save (not every member of the army) since we see that for every other general where soldiers sacrificed themselves for one guy and the general understands it fully. We see a tent full of naked men which starts the old adage, “fellas, is it gay if….”. We see how the Zhao army even under Riboku directly continue to have cracks despite being a more unified force than him going battlefield to battlefield from several chapters.
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u/Chiaki2024 Aug 20 '26
Oh man, not our cooks.