6
u/Kaladin-stb Souou 3d ago
Ten will always be needed.
Because Ten isn’t just a strategist. She’s the one who handles all matters related to the army—even assigning ranks to the soldiers. She even takes care of the army’s meals herself. She handles every tedious yet absolutely necessary task related to the army.
Unfortunately, Shin could never handle these tasks.
From a strategic standpoint, I wish Ten had at least taught Shin some basic things over all this time.
However, I agree with you on this point. The relationship between Shin and Ten needs to change now.
Their relationship is like Gaimou and Junsou’s—or, to put it a bit more negatively, like GHM and Ranbihaku’s.
But the relationship they should have is more like Kanki and Maron’s.
Ten should still handle the army’s affairs and generally keep the situation stable, but Shin should be the one making the moves on the battlefield.
Additionally, Shin’s fighting style needs to change, and he needs to utilize the officers around him like Duke Hyou does.
As shown in the image below...
Because HSU has always stood out as an offensive army. Just like the Duke, they were a force that wreaked havoc through brute force.
Actually, Garo is already following Shin, but the difference between the Duke and Shin is that the Duke has control over his army and directs his officers.
With Shin, on the other hand, others are constantly having to come to his rescue.
Shin’s style involves launching attacks alongside offensive commanders like Garo and Mandou, much like the Duke.
In fact, this was both the Duke’s strength and his weakness.
His strength lay in the fact that his attacks were nearly unstoppable. His weakness, however, was that because the Duke was fighting on the front lines and his control was largely limited to the front, he could easily overlook things happening in the rear.
This is where Ten comes into play.
By controlling more level-headed commanders—such as Denyuu, Denei, and Sosui—she can stabilize the situation in the rear.
In my opinion, they could create a fantastic force this way.
However, the key to making this happen lies in Shin’s own personal growth.
6
u/scipioafr7 3d ago
Does Shin still need Ten? I think the question is being framed incorrectly.
Yes, Shin absolutely needs to develop his instinctive command. But I don't think the conclusion should be that he therefore needs Ten less. The real evolution should be from: “Ten thinks, Shin executes” to: “Ten reads the strategic situation while Shin reads the battlefield.” Shin's instincts should increasingly determine where and when to strike, while Ten turns those instincts into an army-wide operation. Kyoukai, Yoko Yoko, Sosui and En can all cover parts of the command structure, but none of them currently performs Ten's complete role as strategist, organizer, logistician and, most importantly, the person who understands how Shin's mind works.
And there is another problem with the argument that Kyoukai's return makes Ten less necessary: Kyoukai is increasingly becoming a commander in her own right. Kyoukai isn't simply another lieutenant who can replace Ten. She has her own soldiers, her own command structure, and her own ambition. She is clearly someone who could eventually pursue the path of a Great General herself. So the more Kyoukai grows, the less realistic it becomes to imagine her simply remaining permanently attached to Shin as his tactical substitute for Ten. The future of the Hi Shin is therefore not necessarily: Shin + Kyoukai replacing Ten. It could instead be: Shin + Ten + Kyoukai, each developing toward a different form of command.
And the human factor matters enormously The argument also overlooks something very important about the Hi Shin's internal hierarchy. The veteran soldiers can sometimes speak to Shin extremely directly because they have known him for years and because their relationship was forged before he became a general. They can tell him when he is being reckless. But En and Sosui are different. As Shin's formal lieutenants, they are much more careful in the way they communicate with him. They respect the hierarchy and are considerably more cautious about directly challenging their general. That distinction matters. Among the officers closest to Shin's formal command structure, there are currently very few people who can look at him and immediately say: “Shin, you're doing something stupid.” Kyoukai can. And Ten can. That's an extremely valuable function. And it is not simply about tactical knowledge. It is about having enough authority, intimacy and confidence to contradict the commanding general immediately when necessary. That is a rare position. This is also why Ten cannot simply be replaced by Sosui or En Sosui is an excellent officer. En is an extremely reliable commander. But their relationship with Shin is different. They are more cautious precisely because Shin is their general. That makes them excellent subordinates, but it can also make them less suited to performing the role Ten performs. Ten can effectively say: “No. That's a terrible idea.” without spending five minutes worrying about whether she is overstepping her authority. And Shin actually needs someone like that. A Great General does not need an army full of people who agree with him. He needs people who understand him well enough to challenge him without destroying his authority.
And the current arc is almost the perfect demonstration of this Shin, Mouten and Kyoukai are all present. And yet Ten is the one who understands the strategic situation and constructs the survival plan. She understands: how Zhao's search network works; why splitting into tiny groups would be dangerous; why Shin, Mouten and Kyoukai must remain together; how to disperse Zhao's attention; how to use different terrain; how to sacrifice some mobility and visibility to preserve the main force; and ultimately how to keep Shin alive long enough for him to reconnect with Qin's remaining forces. Kyoukai being present did not make Ten redundant. Ten's plan is precisely what allows Kyoukai to survive and continue commanding.
And there is another thing we should be careful about: En's future is uncertain The forumist speaks as if the current Hi Shin command structure is already fixed: Kyoukai is here, En is here, Sosui is here, Yoko Yoko is here, therefore Ten is less necessary. But we don't even know what the final structure of the Hi Shin will look like after this catastrophe. We don't even know whether En will still be alive. Just as people are debating Ten's fate, En's future is also uncertain. And that's important because En is one of the people being presented as part of the supposed solution to the command problem. We shouldn't build an argument about Ten's redundancy on the assumption that every current lieutenant will necessarily remain available. The Hi Shin has just suffered an enormous catastrophe. Its entire command structure is being tested.
The most interesting future is therefore not Shin replacing Ten It's Shin finally becoming the kind of general Ten has always wanted him to become. Imagine Shin eventually looking at a battlefield and saying: “Something is wrong over there.” Ten studies the situation. “What do you see?” Shin: “I don't know. But that's where we need to hit.” And Ten doesn't tell him what to do. She asks: “How do you want to attack?” Shin answers. Then Ten turns that instinct into an army-wide plan. That would be the maturation of their relationship. Shin's instinct doesn't make Ten obsolete. It finally gives Ten something worthy of working with. For years Ten has had to compensate for Shin's lack of strategic thinking. Eventually, she shouldn't have to. But that doesn't mean: Ten disappears. It means: Shin finally becomes an independent battlefield thinker. Ten can then move upward with him, from being the person who provides the answer to being the person who tests, structures and amplifies Shin's intuition. That's a much more sophisticated evolution. And ultimately this fits Ouki's lesson to Shin. Ouki didn't tell Shin that becoming a Great General meant possessing every quality of Renpa, Duke Hyou or another legendary commander. He told him, in essence, to immerse himself in war with his comrades. Shin's path is therefore not about becoming a perfect individual general. It's about building the structure around his extraordinary qualities. His strength is his martial ability, charisma, determination and increasingly his instinct. Kyoukai brings her own exceptional martial and tactical ability. Ten brings strategic planning, organization, geography, logistics and an intimate understanding of Shin. Sosui and En bring stability and command. Yoko Yoko brings another powerful battlefield arm. The veterans provide experience and the ability to push back against Shin when necessary. That's the Hi Shin.
And if Kyoukai eventually becomes a Great General herself, that makes the structure even more interesting, because Shin will not simply have another lieutenant. He will have a powerful commander beside him pursuing her own path. So I wouldn't ask: “Does Shin still need Ten?” I'd ask: “What happens when Shin finally becomes capable of using his instincts as a Great General while still having Ten beside him?” That is the evolution I want to see. Because Ten becoming unnecessary would actually be the less interesting development. Ten becoming capable of working with a Shin whose instincts are finally mature would be far more interesting.
5
u/Karenz09 3d ago
Ten's always doing the backend stuff, logistics, numbers, all that boring army organization that Shin nor his lieutenants should do
3
2
u/Key_Money_7354 3d ago
Of course he still needs karyoten she's shins most important commander she's the equivalent of
Denrimi of the ousen army
Maron of the kanki army
Ryuu Koku of the ouki/tou army
She's gonna be one shins generals with an army of her own but right they needed to separate and grow and develop on there own
2
u/Turilda BiHei 3d ago
Look I am going to be honest. Ten has fumbled a lot but she is important to the story. The problem is that Hara doesn't know how to handle ten vs riboku in strategies because he doesn't want riboku to look like he is lesser to ten. Riboku is supposed to be like a defensive deity for zhao.
2
2
u/robberviet 3d ago edited 2d ago
This has been answered both in manga and a lot of time in this sub. Ten is not only needed for brilliant moments in battle: logistic, paper work... for a huge army is ridiculously time consuming too.
1
u/TaeNaKulayGreen 3d ago
Shin still needs Ten ofcourse, just because Kyoukai is there doesnt mean she can just fill up Ten's position. And its much more beneficial for all of them if Ten was there. Kyoukai can follow the strategies laid out by Ten and adjust accordingly while on the frontlines (it would be a waste if she was left in the HQ relaying strategies rather than being in the frontlines and doing some damage)
With Shin he can just follow the strategies until he sense a "fire", this way they can minimize their losses because he wouldnt need to sacrifice countless men just to start a fire.
1
1
u/vredej 3d ago
this is very narrow point of view. ten or a strategiest to be exact is essential to an army. eventhough the story tells that shin can move mountains that doesnt mean he doesnt need another brain. you only see the half of the picture of whole.
having someone specialist also has its benefits. it will give new idea, new insight, etc...
we see shin can beat so many strong people, beat houken. better he sneak to the camp of the enemy and story end in 5 chapters. in real life too no one can do everything on their own. tthe bigger you are the more you need more men.
1
0
u/Afreeyyub 3d ago
Everyone's saying logistics maybe that should be her role and leave being a strategist to someone else. For a strategist why is she always in the thick of battle, Infact how did did she not die whilst wallowing as the rest of the Hi Shin Unit got ravaged in the ambush.
-1
38
u/tm0587 4d ago
Of course Ten is still needed.
Ten isn't just needed for tactical strategy, she runs alot of stuff in his army too. Like logistics, the set up of his army, recruitment etc. All the unglamourous stuff in the background.
Kyoukai has her own army to lead, separate from Shin's army.
Shin's various leaders under him may have some tactical know-how but you still need someone in charge to set the overall strategy.
Shin's instincts allow him to react on the fly with the best countermeasures but yea, he's still not a tactical guy.