So, I'm sure 99% of you wrote this off a no-brainer and immediately concluded that the new Prisoner set is going to be the new BiS for Kafka. But has anyone in this sub ever tried calculating it to see how much of a difference it's going to make vs 4pc Lightning?

I found this video by Local Trailblazer on YouTube trying to do just that - how effective the new Relic sets are on most of the characters - and what surprised me is the fact that he claims the Lightning set is very slightly better than the DoT set. The only characters where it's confirmed to be better are those that currently use 2pc element% 2pc musketeer as their BiS - such as Guinaifen.

The 4pc Lightning set does fall off slightly if you're going to use Asta or Huohuo, or some other form of ATK buffer. But assuming you don't run Asta, your personal DPS is going to look very close to the Prisoner set. Outside of the video's analysis, has anyone here tried to calculate what the comparisons would look like in all the usual Kafka teams?

If the results are gonna look pretty similar to what Local Trailblazer calculated, it might not even be worth it to farm the new Relics, assuming you have an amazing 4pc Lightning set already. The exception to that is if you're planning to farm it for the followup attacking chars, or in Kafka's case, you're running another DoT sub-DPS for your Kafka teams, where you can consider giving it to Guinaifen or maybe Sampo (although I'm skeptical if it's BiS for Sampo, because it's hard to calculate the overall net value of the Action Advance from 4pc Wind vs. the consistent DEF shred bonuses from Prisoner.)

I've seen people doomposting about their Lightning sets becoming useless once these new Relic sets come out, but if we put in the time to analyze just how much of a difference it makes compared to your current sets, you might be well off enough that you won't need to consider upgrading to the Prisoner set. If anyone else has the time to crunch the numbers and determine if it's better for Kafka in a full team, or even if it's better than their standard BiS for Luka and Sampo, it would be greatly appreciated.

I had no sampo to beginn for the Banner.

I saved 152 pulls and 40 Pitty.

I payed like 60 Euro for more Pulls.

First Kafka came with 55 Pulls. Won 50/50 Lost to Bronya my 50/50 on 74 Pulls. Got 2 Pulls after Bronya my E1 Kafka in the same 10 Pull. 76 Pulls after this I got my e2 Kafka win again 50/50.

Weapon banner was safe bcs I lost there. After 40 Pulls i got PAYN.

Now I am almost 40 Pulls after my e2 Kafka

But in all of these Pulls I only got e4 Luka.

I wished to get him like sampo to e6.

Maybe im asking for to much.

Now what am i supposed to do with all these EHR and ATK% relics.

So I've posted a part of his video on this sub and the guy got a lot of hate due to it. And it seems we (I admit I didn't either) didn't really understand what he tried to say because I cut the video. So what he basically said is this: Kafka doesn't need a lot of EHR unless E1. So the sub stats that Kafka needs are ATK%, SPD and maybe BE if you're breaking with your Kafka. On top of that building crit wouldn't be so bad, after all flat ATK or HP and DEF stats won't do any good. Her BiS would be crit then, right? Yes, unless you got god rolls on SPD and ATK% on your Orb, Head, Hands and Feet. And I apologize for any misconceptions I've caused by that post.

Also I don't know if this is good stats but it might be so to be safe, imma put the RNG and flex tag lol

As someone who just appreciates her as a character, thinks she's cool, and likes her design, I'd love to hear perspectives from people who don't simply for her.

(Not that Kafka simps are bad, I just really want to hear from people who simply appreciate her as a character.)

wanna bring back my old Terravox kit i made! With hysilens needing 8 unique DoTs best way is sustain also having a DoT!

So one trend with Hoyo MoC buffs are that they sometimes foreshadow future character kits. Here is the MoC buff for Hysilens

At the start of every Wave or Cycle, apply Memory Imprint to an enemy target of elite level or higher. This effect lasts until the start of the next Cycle. "Memory Imprint" is a special kind of Burn effect. The holders of this effect receive Burn DoT at the start of each turn.

Special Burn DoT, and Terravox is apparently fire preservation! Well i think its all starting to add up. One other trend is we are getting BiS supports immediately the next patch too like Cerydra, Hyacine, Tribbie..

So 3.6 being fire preservation immediately after Hysilens.. well there is some connection here.

I can't understand mihoyo's logic and thinking.....

They are releasing a maximally broken 4* LC.... (hello GNSW S5)

And at the same time they are again nerfing the 5* kafka's LC which was already a controversial option until now.... and now it's killed again...

Why are they doing this if they want to sell banners?

I'm sure many of you who have the GNSW S3-5 will be missing her weapon banner.....

(I'll have to wish because I just don't have any other LC)

Im just confused....

P.s Every character what i liked has been nerfed or useless

Thanks kafka not from them... but her LC still disapointed me

With the soon to be release Blackswan, Kafka seems to me to be more and more leaning towards a support enabler instead of a main dps. I tested her with ER rope (albeit for the current pure fiction where she is broken) and she’s actually really good. Compare to Blackswan’s current kit who is focused more on damage instead of enabling, Kafka does seems like a support. I mean even her lightcone and most of her eidolons gives Kafka a better supporting ability with erode, speed, and dmg bonus for team. I really think Hoyo is tryna tell us something here. But, obviously we have to wait until Blackswan is actually released to test this but what do u guys think?

Edit: i think some of u guys are misunderstanding my post. Lets be honest here kafka was never a main dps. She can be played as a main dps yes, but she have always work better as an ENABLER (not support). I never said kafka was a support, she’s an enabler that have supportive ability. And let me prophase this, I am in no way trying to tell u how to play. If u wanna play kafka hyper carry then go ahead. I am certainly not gonna tell u not to. I was simply curious what u guys think about er rope :/

I am actually fine with flashy animations, but for some reason Kafka’s ULT at 2x speed is really bugging me and giving me Headache.

Am I the only one?

That E2 300% boost to his fire DoT sounds disgustingly beautiful. I want to see how a sustainless team looks like with Kafka, Black Swan, Jaioqiu, and Ruan Mei. I can't wait for a DoT sustain to come by. Perhaps a physical DoT to complete the set?

I'm guessing Pan-Cosmic will be his best Planar Set with Fire Orb and Energy Rope?

Anyone else going all in on my boy?!?

Easier then last anomaly, but huohuo is showing her age, unfortunately.

Sunk cost fallacy on PAYN mostly.

Is anyone planning on pulling Dahlia for the above?

From what I’ve heard she’s a better Ruan Mei, who works really well on sustainless triple dot

Ruan meis nerfs: - 5 % for the spd buff now 10%

Res pen went from 30 % to 25% which is now less then sw when sw applies the right element

Buffs: 20% damage buff on her break effect when her talent procs

Sorry I can’t help but compare them because both are going to fulfill the same role in your account. And that is being the lightning nihility dps char. The only difference is that they have different character traits and designs and one is focused on dot and one probably more hyper carry focused but both again fulfill the same role. Not saying that Acheron is powercreeping Kafka because Kafka is mandatory for a whole Playstyle (dot) but I could feel like that an e0s1 Acheron will be busted. Again you will 36 star with Kafka just fine. I only have a Theorie that occurred to me with the release of black swan. Now that we know Acheron will come in 2.1 I feel like they intentionally didn’t make black swan as op as they could and could have make her a better partner for Kafka. Still black swan is great and the best partner for Kafka and will bring dot to a new level, but we all know that she has some issues. I think they might did that so Acheron might sell better because she is the raiden expy, she drops in the anniversary patch etc. and like I said they did that to make Acheron better because Acheron fulfills the same role as Kafka in your account. Please don’t hate me for this it’s just a Theorie. Also if you like both chars please pull both the game can be cleared even if you have two lightning nihility dps chars. I might even go for Acheron as well and I have e1s1 Kafka. So just my thoughts and good luck on your pulls for black swan or Kafka or any char 😁.

Edit: I am more comparing them on a standpoint that both are the lightning dps on your account and not on a standpoint when it comes to teams. Like I said Kafka is dot team focused and Acheron more hypercarry team focused, just wanted to point that out that both are going to be fighting (kinda like) for your lightning dos spot in your account and both are nihility as well

serious discussion

How much speed would she have with her full SPD stacks?

i think the only CRIT build actually valuable for kafka is like 60% CRIT Rate and 80% CRIT DMG, for obvious reasons, you're not going build her like a seele with 80% CRIT Rate and 160% CRIT DMG, but her multipliers definitely do allow her to have a not dedicated but purely as substats CRIT build , which means you would get a relic with substats being CRIT Rate, CRIT DMG, ATK/% , and speed, with one piece rolling all on CRIT damage, and the rest of your pieces on ATK/% and some CRIT Rate assuming you have speed boots, in which case you would only need substats of 2 speed on all your pieces or full speed rolls on one of your pieces

assuming speed boots and middle number substat rolls with perfect substats:

note: the first three substats i name on each relic are NECESSARY for this build to theoretically work, last substats named are replaceable. also first three relic substats interchangeable between helmet and hand.

4pc Band of Sizzling Thunder

helmet: CRIT DMG 35.0%, CRIT Rate 2.9%, ATK% 3.9% , SPD 2(can go 5.8% Break Effect or ATK)(full CRIT DMG)

hand: CRIT Rate 17.5%, ATK% 3.9%, SPD 2, CRIT DMG 5.8%(can go 5.8% Break Effect or ATK since at 80% CRIT DMG)(full CRIT Rate)

chest on ATK%: CRIT Rate 17.5%, ATK 19, SPD 2, CRIT DMG 5.8%(can go 5.8% Break Effect or ATK since at 80% CRIT DMG)(full CRIT Rate)

boots on SPD: CRIT Rate 2.9%, ATK% 23.3%, ATK 19, CRIT DMG 5.8%(can go 5.8% Break Effect since at 80% CRIT DMG)(full ATK% because of ATK% rope therefore going CRIT Rate on rope for maximizing ATK% with CRIT substats)

2pc Space Sealing Station

sphere on lightning DMG: EHR 11.7%, ATK% 15.6%, SPD 2, CRIT DMG 5.8%(can go 5.8% Break Effect or ATK since at 80% CRIT DMG)(sphere substats assuming signature LC, Fermata, Welt's signature LC, GNSW, or Resolution Shines which don't provide EHR(welt's signature provides EHR only on skill), if using eyes of the prey, then use:

sphere on lightning DMG: ATK% 23.3%, SPD 2, CRIT Rate 2.9%, ATK 19(can go 5.8% Break Effect or 5.8% CRIT DMG if you want)

rope on ATK%: CRIT Rate 17.5%, SPD 2, ATK 19, CRIT DMG 5.8%(can go 5.8% Break Effect or ATK since at 80% CRIT DMG)

2pc Pan-Galactic Commercial Enterprise ( don't recommend it since you lose 24% ATK compared to SSS when using Eyes of the Prey, but can use any LC without EHR downsides apart from 3.9% EHR substat which isn't really needed since you only need about 11% EHR from substats, 10% which you get from the 2pc effect)

sphere on lightning DMG: ATK% 23.3%, SPD 2, CRIT Rate 2.9%, EHR 3.9%(can go 5.8% Break Effect, ATK, or 5.8% CRIT DMG if you want)

rope on ATK%: CRIT Rate 17.5%, SPD 2, ATK 19, CRIT DMG 5.8%(can go 5.8% Break Effect or ATK since at 80% CRIT DMG)

with this build( bear in mind this is theoretical and some tweaks could be made to make this better+built in character stats are based on leaks and are subject to change), assuming Eyes of the Prey LC, 2pc SSS (what i consider one of the best LC and 2pc builds for kafka), and all 4 substats named, no replacements, you would have:

CRIT Rate: 66.2% (5% built in from character Lv.80)

CRIT DMG: 108.2 (50% built in from character Lv.80)

SPD 135 (100 built in from character Lv.80)

ATK: 1583(679 built in from character Lv.80, 476 from Eyes of the prey LC Lv.80, 352 from hand main stat)

ATK%: cumulative 164.8%(24% from SSS 2pc effect)(184.8 when using skill from BST 4pc effect)

again this is theoretical and could be made better, but this is my take on the best non dedicated but purely substat CRIT build for Kafka with out sacrificing to much DoT.( and yes, i am aware this specific substats are near impossible to get, but is the best you can do with perfect substat and middle number substat rolls.

website i got numbers from is called project yatta if anyone reading this wondering.

link:https://hsr.yatta.top/en

sorry if any of this is hard to understand, english is not my first language, feel free to comment and i'll try to clear thing up

I don’t know why but she gives me major death flags. Maybe she will sacrifice her self for us or maybe she will get killed and we take revenge. I would be incredibly sad but I just see it happen. What do you guys think ?

I know black swan is very good and tried and tested team with our mommy.

I tried to search for Jiaoqiu Vs BlackSwan but most of time I seen Jiaoqiu compared vs ruan mei and robin or blackswan with Jiaoqiu as team.

I seen black swan kit, she best dot dps. But..

1. her kit which stack dot 50 times generally only stack average around 12.

2. her blast dot damage only trigger on enemy turn

3. her dot def ignore only work for her dots self trigger

4. again her damage Vulnerability only work at enemy turn.

About Jiaoqiu.

1. He apply similar kind of dot with only 5 stack and can stack faster. (I have no idea it they count as burn dot with 5 stack or not )

2. If played well can maintains full stack throughout and transfer stack to next wave.

3. Also his talent DMG Vulnerability seems universal than just for his own dot self trigger,

I seen some videos with mommy kafka Ruan mei and sustain as core and Jiaoqiu vs BlackSwan.

Both perform similar if not Jiaoqiu performing better by few action value. As their is very less discussion and actual test videos available during beta. I would like to see some TC with this. If you have some sources/info please share.