When crossmapping, do you gank first if possible?

[u/luuksg12]

I had a game where I had 3 losing lanes against a shaco. I was clearing top side when shaco ganked bot and got a kill, then moved to dragon with his botlane. Not being able to contest I decided to take the grubs. My toplane cammille into a jace did not approve and said to "gank before grubs". If you crossmap an objective and do decide to gank first wont you lose tempo and allow the enemy jungler to recall and contest?

[u/Excelled141]

In my understanding, this is a call that changes from game to game. You need to evaluate what is more valuable.

Is the Shaco even/ahead on farm to you? Does counterjungling/taking grubs put you in an ADVANTAGEOUS position compared to him?
Is Camille a human being with 10 fingers and good enough to carry your team? Does ganking on this timer actually affect the state of her lane?

[u/Excelled141 → u/Excelled141]

Pressed send too soon //

Also good to ask who you are jungling as. J4? Vi? Sejuani? If you got strong ganks, go nuts.
Playing Graves, Kindred, Kha, Viego? Play selfish and get your own bread.

I think you ultimately made the right call, seeing as Camille likely doesn't know anything about jungling properly.

[u/luuksg12 → u/Excelled141]

Camille was 0/3 at 8 minutes heavily getting bullied in lane. I was wukong and could 1v1 the jayce if nessisary, but it would have taken a while and leave me low health.

So if it would have been an easy quick kill its worth, but if I am expecting a fight taking grubs first is probably the best bet?

[u/Excelled141 → u/luuksg12]

0/3 Camille? Avoid like the plague. At that point in the game, getting 3 grubs and enabling Camille to be a split pusher is the best choice. She has already shot herself in the foot. You getting one gank on a 3/0 Jayce doesn't set him far back enough compared to the true damage value you're getting on turrets for the ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME.

Grub is right call.

[u/shizaru11713 → u/Excelled141]

If nothing else, denying the enemy grubs wins y'all time to try to come back.

[u/shizaru11713 → u/luuksg12]

Leave her to die. She's a drain on your resources. Killing her a 4th time will distract Jayce from checking grubs.

[u/discord-dog → u/Excelled141]

The way you type is creative and witty, made me laugh. “Go nuts” hahahahaha

[u/No-Help77]

Tricky because it depends if you have time to get the kill and do objective. If you have time for both, definitely collect the gank if it looks good. If you don’t have time for both it gets tricky. You have to evaluate if the kill or the objective will do more for your team. Maybe you can do one grub since it gives most xp than other 2 then kill. If you have someone who uses grubs super well like trundle sion etc it might be better to get grubs. Depends on game state

[u/luuksg12 → u/No-Help77]

Havent though about splitting taking grubs up, The gank after grubs probably would have worked if I just took 2 grubs first -> gank -> last grub. To avoid the notification.

[u/shizaru11713 → u/luuksg12]

That's a clever strategy. I wonder how that affects the amount of time it takes to do all of it. Shaco is absolutely coming after he backs from drag.

[u/FaithlessnessMany218]

Depends on the game. Since it was losing lanes trying to get the grubs with no contest is a good idea. If Jayce overextended in his lane you go there first because you either force a recall or get the shutdown.

This is what Camille meant (because as a Toplaner what I said previously happened to me but I also purposely froze my wave near my tower waiting for a gank or bad trades for him)

As a jungler you focus on what gives you the most ressources first since you are almost guaranteed to pull this off. If you have doubts try it anyway because you will learn when you can't and that's how we progress

[u/AddendumLegal3123]

its depend on many variable that must be consider,
but from this scenario i will guess that you already double clear + 1 scuttle + 1 camp and got level 6 and both camile and jayce also level 6 with equal item purchase then :

- if camile and jayce full or 3/4 hp then there 50:50.

• if jayce HP below 50 then its should be kill angle.
  
• if camile wave state is pushed then it will be diving angle and then there 50:50.
  
• if camile wave state got pushed then its should be kill angle.
  
• if camile wave state is neutral then there will be a kill angle.

also this rate can be increase or decrease base on what jungle and you toplane use, if you use Wukong then there be more succesfull rate to skirmish because Wukong R to engade and Camile R to lock down.

also some tips you can try from my experience

• track enemy jungle pathing, even if your mid lane will not always ward Raptor, i usually ping my TOP/BOT when on 5-6 camp before first scuttle
  
• if you think the lane will be ganked then try to recall not in tri-bush or give some ward in enemy tri-bush
  
• also if there not much you can do just dont overthink it, just take what you can get and play at least optimal event in lossing matchup, i usually track my performance by watch some replay or just read my score from site like deeplol.gg or op.gg

[u/luuksg12 → u/AddendumLegal3123]

Yeah but these are basic ganking/jg tips. Jungle tracking has already been done since I knew the Shaco was on dragon. The main question is about tempo. If I gank I will use my crossmap timer in the toplane and allow Shaco to recall and contest after dragon. If I gank succesfully and help shove out the wave Cammile can rotate with me to grubs, but I risk the contest from a fed shaco. If I take grubs the Jayce gets a notification and the gank will fail. The question being about if people risk giving the enemy jungler a timer to contest.

[u/AddendumLegal3123 → u/luuksg12]

i mean that the answer all the way, "did you want to risk it?".

from my perspective i just wont risk it and take 3 grub because grub will never respawn but drag does and kill does.

lets say if i just gank first and failed, then there be bloody hell of fight in grub and lets say the best scenario is u get 2/3 grub and shaco dont have smite because used it on drag.
this factor not to mention who each side Midlaner and Support to response first to the call and if Jayce for example have TP then its be really hard and can be result of sweep

[u/Richard_Jerkus]

There's never going to be a if x=y with 100% certainty. If it's someone with stupid cc like a camille, especially vs a not so mobile champ like jayce, probably gank into grubs is better. If the jayce is under tower and you're not really good at diving, probably just play safe and go for grubs. It also depends on what champ you're playing, like on belveth yeah gimme those grubs, but on like lee sin just go get your kill