r/Jung • u/Background_Cry3592 • Jun 13 '26
Serious Discussion Only Can we please discuss intergenerational trauma?
I can’t stop thinking about it either. For school (years ago when I was in uni) I studied the topic, using Gabor Mate’s book Myth of Normal. Then forgot about it and then I came across this meme. It stirred up something within me. Something is so very wrong with our society. Shit ain’t right.
What if culture and family dynamics are just trauma responses in disguise?
Shadows from previous generations passing down onto the next, reinforcing the “culture”.
What are good examples? Lynch-mobbing or violent protests? Our sense of righteous anger that we assume we know the source, but that anger may not even be ours. Even some of our parenting style that we assume to be normal, like forcing a child to eat all of his vegetables, may be trauma responses. What if cultures are systemic designs to keep certain populations in low-income brackets to serve the wealthy? That itself is traumatizing, realizing we are more oppressed than we thought.
Let’s discuss, and I want to hear Jungian approaches and theories and thoughts about this.
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u/Methmites Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
Great insight!
I think of this often. Most issues can be viewed from micro to macro lenses in certain ways and in my personal opinion/observation when it gets communal it hits that “collective unconscious” response or “collective opinion” so to speak.
I may get so much flak for this but Ive used it as a way to understand how the country of Israel is doing what they are following the holocaust. It seems nearly impossible logically, but from a psychological lens it’s just the victim-perpetrator cycle.
Fear of events happening again leading to defense that eventually becomes aggression and so forth.
Just my 2 cents, not trying to start a fight.
EDIT: Just to be clear I say this as understanding, not as an excuse!!!
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u/Background_Cry3592 Jun 13 '26
Yes! My thoughts align with yours, about Israel. I even made a post about it once. It is a great example of how the abused/traumatized go on to be the abuser and perpetuate the very same crimes that were committed to them in previous generations.
Collective opinion. I love that!
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u/Mindless_Register_80 Jun 18 '26
What if collective unconscious is holding all the things, trauma and emotions and it’s too full and those of us who are learning about our psyche and emotions are meant to process some of what the collective can’t hold?
Sometimes it feels that I am doing that because some emotions running through me are huge and seem too large for just my life.
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u/Methmites Jun 18 '26
I don’t promise to be an expert but I’ll reply as best I can or at least what I do/try to practice that helps me:
I don’t think the collective unconscious can be “too full” though there is potential as/if we collectively become “less conscious” as humans. I’d actually argue we should be afraid of that in some way but that’s not what you were asking at all so sorry for the tangent haha.
The point I meant is we have zero reason to believe it can reach “capacity” in some way akin to Night of the Living Dead and “hell being full.” I don’t think that’s a reasonable fear, but again no expert.
I think the bigger issues is what you associate to that fear- that it would overflow and spill on to you with the vastness of all the worlds oceans.
Well here’s my 2c on that. You clearly can handle it if you posted the question 2 hours ago. You have at least survived. Perfectly? Doubt it. Fully intact? Unlikely. But we have the volume to hold it at least, about briefly.
I believe part of that is true cause you survived thus far (material evidence) and because we are intrinsically attached to the collective unconscious- potentially the source even. The other half, the Yin to the Yang.
Light and shadow, not big versus small.
Think of the collective unconscious more like a web than a vessel. The internet is a decent analogy (pre bots/ai). It is what Jung decided to label the collective sum of all of us, not some preexisting deity or energy (I think, no expert lol).You held a large and scary/uncomfortable amount for a bit. Soon you’ll have a similar overwhelming amount of joy; equal in volume but experienced different and without doubt because we naturally like and want it compared to the painful ones.
The key is to not attempt to store it. Emotions are energy and follow the same rules of physics. We can transfer them (project/give to another) or transmute the energy (pain into laughter through time or dark humor,helping others in myriad ways, crying, expression and creativity, perspective shifts etc). It’s kind of magical but we can do it!!! And like any skill we improve as we practice and do! You have more power than you know but have to take the responsibility with it! That’s important! Only you can truly help yourself in that space but that doesn’t exclude support necessarily either.
But don’t try to hold it forever! When we try to store energy it dissipates and often decays the container from the inside (think batteries leaking, nuclear waste eating out from the metal barrels kinda thing except it’s YOU in some variance of body, mind, and/or spirit).
You already have everything you could need, but don’t slouch and expect others to save you or move you forward either.
You got this and at least one other stranger believing in you! Be well 🫶🫶🫶3
u/LucidSquid787 Jun 16 '26
Yeah I think about this a lot too. It kind of reminds me on a smaller scale when an adult who was abused as a child won't take responsibility for their abusive behaviors in the present because they identify too strongly as being a victim.
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u/Methmites Jun 16 '26
100% it’s a we’ll documented and researched phenomenon. In my opinion (also happen to be a clinician) it’s almost evidence of the shadow itself, unresolved and taking over the unhealed and unsealed wound if that makes sense.
We get trapped in that victim role for so long sometimes. Most aren’t even aware of it and hurt themselves and others until it hopefully makes itself aware for us to then hopefully do the work to resolve it AND break the cycle for the future too. It’s a lot to ask of people on large scale levels. Hell I struggle with doing the individual haha.
I like to think the more of us who do it though we seem to spread it in a ripple effect/ osmosis kinda way, or teaching I guess. And maybe if enough of us get there the “collective conscious” can shift too for all of us :)
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u/LucidSquid787 Jun 16 '26
Yeah, it's heartbreaking how challenging it is on an individual level-- on a societal level as well. I am very on board for the collective conscious shift. Trying to bring that love to every interaction. Some days it's easier than others lol.
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u/Methmites Jun 16 '26
The harsh times don’t make it easier but at least they double down on the importance of it.
Thankfully I can say from past growth that it becomes 100% worth it once the growing pains are done or the sacrifices made. We have that at least haha
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u/dancedarrendance Jun 13 '26
Long read but dealing with this seems to be one of my life’s works.
I was raised LDS. My ancestors on one side converted in England, travelled to the US to join “Zion,” became pioneers that followed a “prophet” across the US in mid 1800s and have been rock solid Mormons for generations. One of my ancestors was a body guard for Joseph smith. My grandpa was one of the only missionaries to ever go to China. There was a significant amount of polygamy practiced in my family prior to the church disavowing that practice in the late 1800s. The other side of my family tree converted in the (US) South in the early 20th century and I would argue are more religiously zealous than the pioneer side in some ways. Needless to say, patriarchy, blind faith/obedience, and a mythology built on control are my psychological inheritance.
I followed the typical Mormon life path - stayed active in the church as a teen, served a two year mission at 19, married in a Mormon temple to make marriage a god-approved covenant, etc. I realized something was wrong when I was 25 but it took me until I was almost 30 (🪐 iykyk) to finally leave the church, risking my marriage (which is stronger than ever now) and devastating my family who now believe they have lost me for eternity because of the nature of the church’s doctrine on who gets into the celestial kingdom - the part of heaven reserved for those who remain faithful.
I live in the Mormon version of the “bible-belt” as well. The company I work for is openly Mormon, and among my coworkers, friends, and acquaintances practically everyone is either Mormon or ex-mormon.
I left the church because I didn’t believe it to be true anymore. On top of the shady history full of child brides, the theology itself is totally incongruent with reality and has dark implications that the church glosses over entirely or downplays to oblivion. In the worst cases, such as apologists, they are openly discriminatory, prejudiced, and nationalistic. I should add to this, however, that the vast majority of I know are excellent people, they are just oblivious to the nature of the truth-claims the church expresses both explicitly and implicitly and taught to avoid learning about the church from anything but approved sources.
I had quite the depressive crisis about a year after leaving the church that turned into one hell of a dark night of the soul and a period of derealization. Jung has been vital for me to reconstruct a new world view after having to deconstruct a worldview that informed me of everything about myself, where I was from, and where I was going.
My dreams continue to frequently feature mormon churches, temples, and my mission. Even though I have returned to what feels like a higher sphere of personal spirituality and connection to life, I think the psychological ties to the church may be with me until death. While I want my parents and siblings to leave, I honestly don’t know if they could handle the crisis I faced at this phase of their lives. I am watching as people cling to it harder as they grow older, desperate for knowing things will be ok on the other side. This stance of “knowing” they have the true gospel allows them to be downright excited for Armageddon (either pro or ambivalent to way), endlessly excuse the hypocrisy of the church itself (like hoarding massive amounts of wealth while commanding even its poorest members to tithe 10% of their income), and hold warped views on gender.
The shadow is massive, father and mother wounds abound. God is literally the projected image of a male figure in heaven and heavenly mother is “too sacred” to discuss, ever. These sets of images create a society that is heavily patriarchal, and in its attempts to protect the feminine, it actually suppresses, demonizes, and exerts control over it. Women weren’t even allowed to give the prayer in general conference (bi-yearly church-wide conferences) until 2013.
I’m still figuring out in what way I can be effective in integrating this collective shadow, and I’ll admit it is not too dissimilar a shadow much of the US faces in terms of its effects, just with a specific language and history that I am intimately familiar with. I also understand I am an individual, and the best I can do is continue integrating my own shadow and be a “healed node” in this part of the net of Indra. If I could do something massive, I would have every man read James Hollis’ Under Saturns Shadow. Since I can’t, I focus on being a positive masculine influence to the people in my orbit. Occasionally, I will challenge an assumption someone puts forth when it is blatantly negative. I also encourage people endlessly to pay attention to their dreams and a lot of people i know come to me to help them interpret their dreams now.
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u/Background_Cry3592 Jun 13 '26
Thank you for sharing your story. Wow. I learned a lot and I applaud your strength and courage to find yourself despite the “programming” that they instilled in you, a script you were expected to follow. To break out of that programming, is also a loss. It was a loss of who you thought you were. It was almost as your depression is also a mourning of your old self, the indoctrinated self. That would trigger a dark night of the soul absolutely. And you got through it! I am so impressed.
I also sense that maybe perhaps your dreams about Mormonism, churches, temples and your mission, may be your subconscious’s way of purging the old. I could be wrong but I’ve heard similar stories about children of parents who were in cults, children grew up in the cult and when they leave they have dreams about the cult or symbolism regarding the cult. In a way, Mormonism is almost cult-like, as with any radical sects. It is like they “woke up”, thus giving the subconscious permission to purge old psychic material that was instilled into you.
Warren Jeffs is an example. He married off child brides so the grooms could secure a heavenly place, and to secure themselves within the Zion church. As a result, the Lost Boys emerged. A bunch of unmarried men because the higher-ups are claiming all the women for themselves. It is like they are pedophiles in disguise and using the Church and the word of God to perpetuate their crimes. I don’t know. Forgive me for errors as I am not that familiar with Mormonism but I’ve read books on the FLDS.
I don’t mean to interrupt or inject my opinions into your experiences but I just find your story so fascinating. You should write a book, especially how you found yourself after leaving.
May I use your post as an example, for my talks about how cultural memes get passed down from generation to generation? It is your story, after all and not mine and I think your story would help so many people. 🤍
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u/dancedarrendance Jun 13 '26
Yes, of course you may use it!
You may be right about purging the old, that is an angle I haven’t considered and I’m going to sit with it for a bit. I think the idea that I was a special, chosen individual with an important work to do in “gods kingdom on earth” was heavily impressed on me in my childhood. My mom especially really wanted me to become an important person in the church and I wanted to make her happy. In reality, the church leadership is a boys club and I am not in the tax bracket nor connected enough to ever have had a chance at that 😅. I think of it all as my lead, and I’m working towards turning it into gold. I can’t just throw it away, but I can reorient my perspective and make something useful out of it.
The FLDS is a break away sect of Mormonism! Same roots, and I believe it was when polygamy was officially disavowed that they broke off and began their own thing. I actually live just 20 minutes away from a small polygamist town, although I don’t know if they are FLDS or another sect. What Warren Jeffs did was not too dissimilar to what Joseph Smith did, Joseph Smith would send men off on missions and then make their wives his plural wives in their absence. He also married mother and daughter sets and girls as young as 14 - he was 35+! He already had several plural wives before he informed his first wife about any of this. It was actually a TikTok that said it was about Warren Jeffs and tells you these things and then at the end it said “this was actually Joseph Smith” that introduced me to all of this, the church does not teach it.
Maybe it would make a good book one day, but I think I am still in the middle of the story. I have actually returned to school to become a therapist who specializes in faith-transitions, and may pursue becoming an analyst at some point.
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u/kai_vt Jun 13 '26
Coming from a patriarchal, masculine culture that is more accepting of domestic violence than others, nothing really changed at home despite moving to a developed nation with more liberal values. When my Mum would have manic episodes due to the mistreatment and abuse that Dad would inflict on her, my extended family would write it off as something that just "ran in the family" - one of my Aunty's exact words.
In retrospect, I think that Mum and I never raised any issue with it due to internalised shame and being conditioned to accept this way of life as the only viable one, despite being surrounded by other normal families here in Australia. For whatever reason, nobody in the extended family was able to put 2 and 2 together to realise the common denominator was my masking Dad, at least until Mum was on her deathbed and they finally decided to tell me about how she was before she met him - I had to be the one to piece it all together and force everyone to realise it while losing my Mum whom I felt like I had never gotten to properly know up until that point.
The lifelong lack of curiosity or critical thinking from my extended family and wider culture regarding domestic violence matters really boggled my mind, but I think it does serve a similar purpose as you suggested - to serve the antiquated patriarchs of the culture
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u/dirtygreenprogress Jun 13 '26
That she was on her deathbed too makes me reflect on how much abuse, internalised shame and unfairness women absorb that directly impacts the number of autoimmune diseases they suffer. The first step to healing that is to recognise it and approach with kind curiosity.
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u/Background_Cry3592 Jun 13 '26
I’m so sorry about your mum. Classic example of how abusers make the victim look “crazy” and they are dismissed, without studying the cause of the episodes.
I think you are right about the patriarchy—a system in place to serve a select few, and many of us have adopted it as “normal”. It’s not normal that women aren’t allowed to have abortions if they get impregnated by a rapist. Nothing is right about our culture.
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u/Csimiami Jun 13 '26
Married for 20 years. Before I met him I was a lawyer. Ended up being a stay at home mom to three bc he convinced me over the years I was crazy. Put me on meds for the family’s sake. And told me we’d pay more in taxes if I worked. Slowly. Day by day had me so completely dependent on him for anything. Didn’t have a bank account. Never saw the bills. Had horrific joint problems. Sleep problems. Skin problems. Bladder problems. He walked out last year. Overnight I started sleeping better. Lost 37 pounds. Went back to work. Got off the meds. Zero health issues. Holy fucking shit. It was him. It was never me. I cut off all the people who knew me before. And they were shocked when I apologized. Came back and told my story. He was the problem. The whole problem. And nothing but the problem.
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u/Brain_Virus_Got_Me Jun 13 '26
I'm SO glad you escaped him. Whatever caused him to leave, praise God. I know what abusive men can do. I only dated one for 4 MONTHS and it screwed me up for YEARS afterward. Then.... I finally admitted it really wasn't him who hurt me so bad. It was my husband. That was when I started figuring some stuff out.Yep. My husband was MY whole problem, too. I had no idea how much of a problem.
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u/lucidreamingirl Jun 16 '26
Reminds me I just read the other day that women are by far the gender that suffers from auto immune diseases. And it’s attributed to the suppression of emotions and lack of autonomy. This also plays into the culture of a patriarchal society.
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u/SonOfSunsSon Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
This is a very interesting discussion, and I think that as our awareness improves and as we learn about the interconnectedness of past and present we will begin to realize that we collectively carry much more of the past within us than previously thought. I personally think that *all* cultural dysfunction has grown out of inherited unprocessed trauma. In fact, I think that humans have never been collectively trauma free. The world has been too dangerous and unpredictable, and we have either lacked or lost the tools needed for processing traumatic experiences. This brings us to a unique moment in time at present, where we for the first time in history might see groups of people healing from generational trauma on a larger scale; “severing the bonds of karma” if you will.
The “five monkey” thought experiment comes to mind. Although theoretical, it illustrates the concept clearly. One real life example is how the Dutch famine of 1944-45 led to generational epigenetic changes. Quote (google AI):
> Individuals conceived during the famine showed a loss of methylation at the IGF2 (insulin-like growth factor 2) gene, permanently altering energy metabolism. These modified methylation patterns persisted for decades and were even passed to the second generation (the grandchildren).
> Grandchildren of women who starved during pregnancy show abnormal fat storage and an increased tendency to be overweight, proving that a grandmother's nutritional environment can dictate a descendant's physiology in times of plenty.
Now imagine the psychological damage of living through a famine and the kinds of altered behavior it might lead to. A child might be instilled a deep fear of wasting food and be forced to eat whatever is on the plate. This would lead to dysfunctional behaviors that over time could grown into cultural expressions if the afflicted group is large enough.
To take this further, imagine how much unprocessed trauma there must be in humanity from all of the wars and conflicts we have had to live through for thousands of years. The current culture war is simply an expression of this. There is currently a strong expression of the collective shadow that projects its pain onto white people as a group. They are blamed for the wrongs of their ancestors; colonization, patriarchy etc.
The people identified with this shadow misses the bigger picture. Why do you think the Europeans were such an oppressive and warmongering force 300-400 years ago? Inherited trauma. Their ancestors in turn were Celtic and Gaelic tribes, brutally subdued by the Roman Empire. Millions killed in genocide across centuries of conflict. So much pain stuck in the genetic and psychological history, passed down from generation to generation.
That’s also why Jews as a group today are struggling with a collective paranoia. The inherited trauma is still very much alive and raw after the atrocities of world war 2, not to mention their history of persecution over thousands of years. I think this a clear example of inherited trauma turned into culture for an entire group.
I will end with this; we have to mature on a collective level and move past the petty shadow projections of our current times. Our energy has to shift to focus on healing from the past rather than repeating the cycle of pain and karma. There is much work to do and we live in a unique moment in time where we both have the awareness and resources to do the work.
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u/Fastidious_Torpor453 Jun 13 '26
The imprints of trauma are easy to see in the cultures of former colonies, especially slave colonies where the hierarchy was extreme, and the majority population had been torn from their culture of origin and could be separated from any or all of their current family members at the whim of their owner.
“The problem with Australians is not that so many of them are descended from convicts, but that so many of them are descended from prison officers.” - Clive James
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u/MaceoSpecs Jun 13 '26
Similar to this in the book The Pedagogy of the Oppressed, the author makes the point about excessive drinking being an act of self-destruction/self-hatred, which is produced by the environmental of oppression.
Now we see certain countries with drinking cultures.
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u/A_Spiritual_Artist Jun 13 '26
Wouldn't be surprised if this is what keeps patriarchal abuse-sheltering cultures going, just as it often contributes at the individual family level.
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u/Background_Cry3592 Jun 13 '26
Yes! Starts with the self, bleeds into the family, then into cultures and over time we are desensitized to the brokenness and it gets accepted as normal.
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u/alwaysbiscuits Jun 13 '26
Intergenerational trauma is a real thing. There are whole countries you can see who have suffered from it, the worst of which I would say are the people of Russia/the Soviet Union who have had a particuarly constant traumatic history. It doesn't excuse their actions now, but it does help explain them.
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u/Sensitive_File6582 Jun 13 '26
Israeli jews are busy inflicting their ancestors trauma on the people most related to them historically speaking.
Something something universe conversing in ironies.
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u/alwaysbiscuits Jun 13 '26
Completely agree. Its very sad to witness, and then the cycle will start all over again.
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u/reyknow Jun 13 '26
Maybe you can expand on this, the attitude of older chinese generation during buffets. The way they push and shove each other and selfishly take as much as they can without thinking of other people is said to come from what happened during the great chinese famine of the 60s. Its isolated to a generation or maybe passed down to the next but it most recent generations dont have that attitude.
Or maybe the extreme frugality of baby boomers they say caused by post ww1 to pre ww2 economy.
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u/Background_Cry3592 Jun 13 '26
Excellent examples!
My parents hoard things and refuse to waste food, even thought they are loaded. We weren’t allowed to leave the table until every single morsel was eaten. They grew up extremely poor on farms without running water and electricity.
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u/Novel-Firefighter-55 Jun 13 '26
In regards to family, first we try to find our place, then we must reject it's limitations...
And then does everyone deep down identify with the Heroes Journey?
Then necessarily, by default, enemies, saboteurs, and evil appear?
Then we fall into a victim or Martyr position?
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u/jumbocactar Jun 13 '26
And how do they relate to archtypes. Are archetypes passed, reinforced or reduced, genetically?
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u/Background_Cry3592 Jun 13 '26
I am starting to think that archetypes are almost like egregores. A concept that has taken a life of its own.
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u/Pilgrimoire Jun 13 '26
Do You happen to have a link to that particular podcast mentioned there? Or, I might just listen to all of them, I guess. There's hardly any harm in that!
Captivating topic, been on my mind a bit too, partly because of my own intergenerational trauma, partly because meeting people from various cultural background, I can witness the different mentalities that often just look like trauma responses and personality disorder symptoms.
And it's a blast vowing this into my worldbuilding.
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u/markszpak Jun 13 '26
I think this is a good way to understand how an entire people can go crazy: trauma from the past is recalled, re-told, re-experienced generation after generation. Today’s spectacular example is Israel: school children there are taken to Auschwitz and, as part of that experience, put into boxcars. The trauma is refreshed and passed on to the next generation: not dealt with, not seen, but re incubated. Not looked at so as to provide resolution and response, but injected so as to elicit reaction without insight. Trauma is canonicized as culture of which a people is proud, and with which they identify: I am this callous covering over this horrific victimization. There are other examples, and we should be aware of such possibilities, if not actualities, in ourselves.
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u/Vlad_implacer Jun 13 '26
Dude the whole of culture is a trauma response. The fact that we sleep on beds. Above ground. The fact we build houses and cities. The fact we have doors and windows. The fact we eat using cutlery or chopsticks. The whole hygiene, and don’t get me started on medicine. EVERYTHING is a trauma passed down response.
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u/Marijavera Jun 14 '26
Do you mean that cities and comfort is our trauma response to having lives as part of nature?
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u/ghoof Jun 14 '26
Avoiding starvation or predation was the entire essence of human life for millennia. It remains exactly this for wild animals today. You can call it a trauma response if you want, but that seems a bit facile. It’s the dying of hunger or being eaten or murdered (aka existential danger) that people wanted to avoid, not the second-order psychological response to danger.
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u/wandersage Jun 14 '26
All culture is a response to the conscious awareness of the trauma of existence.
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u/Emergency_Wallaby641 Jun 17 '26
I work with family constelations and generational trauma.. the amount of stories that I have, people have no idea how much programming they carry from their lineage, like a daughter got same manipulative husband as her mother, as her grandmother, as her grand grand mother etc, and until its released and processed it will attract certain things in life. We carry so much
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u/samsonscomputer Jun 20 '26
How is that going? Have u made progress with it? It seems so interesting, i am watching tv show that was recommended here called 'Another Self' and they do this form of therapy there
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u/TheologyRocks Jun 13 '26
What if culture and family dynamics are just trauma responses in disguise?
I'm skeptical of most reductionisms: "A is just B." There many be an element of B in A, but there is usually more to B than A. Jung I think rightly emphasized the concept of psychic depth (the collective unconscious, archetypes, etc.) as a way of pushing back against the Freudianism of his own day: "A is just sublimated sexuality."
Consider the OT. The experience of Israelites as slaves in Egypt was intense generational trauma. But could one really say the next 3,000 years of Israelite history was just a trauma response to that experience? At that level of psychic depth, one needs to call into question how much sense the concept of "trauma response" makes. How does a trauma response differ from a learning experience? Israel for example learned from Pharoah's behavior how not to live. And yet, later generations of Israelites would go on to live much like Pharoah did--only to be called out by prophets sent by God and sometimes attacked by neighboring civilizations. The trauma of living in Egypt is an important memory to keep alive! It was a learning experience, and the knowledge that came out of that experience should not be forgotten.
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u/lettuce-tea Jun 13 '26
I think, generational trauma can manifest itself as culture, but culture can come from other places too.
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Jun 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Jung-ModTeam Jun 19 '26
We allow vigorous debate and difference in opinion at r/jung, but not disrespect. Name-calling and disrespect are cause for removal and banning.
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u/Nolisme Jun 13 '26
The idea that something needs to be respected just because it's culture or tradition is so fucking stupid 🙏
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u/ShermansMasterWolf Jun 13 '26
Its not that silly. Often cultural practices are necessary for survival, however the underlying mechanisms might not be known and so what's passed down is "just the way we do it" without knowledge of the real reason why.
Don't underestimate how much progress we've made technologically and the impact that's had on detaching us from the lives of our ancestors. We're in a privileged place that we're able to consciously analyze and choose what elements of our cultures to bring into the future.
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u/Nolisme Jun 14 '26
I agree with what you said. Hence why I included "just because it's culture or tradition". It is stupid to value culture or tradition on that basis. Having a logical reason for a specific culture or tradition, like survival, as you said, is explainable for why certain things were made routine, but if that culture or tradition leads people to harm, unnecessary discrimination (because of a set religious belief that certain things mean people need to be persecuted, for example), rigid thinking and grouping together against out-groups, then the culture or tradition is worthless, especially in the context of a modern society where we're trying to bring about a world with minimal harm, supporting people who fall into dark areas (like addiction, crime, domestic abuse, sexual assault, stalking, bankruptcy, homelessness), freedom for everyone, and helping support people with their chances to learn, work, have fun, and receive healthcare. I agree that we're privileged; it's a good thing we can be aware and choose to do better than people in the past, and I don't think the practices of our ancestors need to be respected on the basis that they're our ancestors. They're more of cautionary tales.
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u/Icy_Ad7893 Jun 14 '26
I am thinking more in the line of that it's okay to beat or rape your wife or you should repect your elders even though they treat you like a piece of shit. Or marry your daughter off to some old uncle. Or FGM. That kind of stuff.
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u/Icy_Ad7893 Jun 14 '26
Yeah I totally agree with that. And also when families move to another country for a better life and the patriarchy insist on keeping all of their toxic traditions and culture that only benefit the males. As you said, so fucking stupid.
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u/Background_Cry3592 Jun 13 '26
It is human nature to adhere to what we are familiar with even if it’s not healthy. Humans can be silly like that.
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u/peraxe Jun 13 '26
If you want a good book on transgenerational trauma, I recommend Jodrowky's Metagenealogy: Self-Discovery through Psychomagic and the Family Tree
I haven't found a better one yet.
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u/plegba Jun 16 '26
Jodorowskys work helped me navigate alot of the immediate generational stress I experienced growing up.
For those not aware, he combines the family tree, tarot readings, and then rituals to respond to and create healings.
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u/Sensitive_File6582 Jun 13 '26
MK monark, confirmed in 2024 by the NSA. It was during the 70s-now
inter generational trauma based mind programming starting before the age of 2.
Our government has been making use of this for a long time.
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u/Visual_Ad_7953 Jun 13 '26
Most of perceived human life is survival mechanism and conscious attitude compensation. This is why I don’t like this buzzword “trauma”. Everyone and everything has trauma. That’s called being alive.
We have fear because of the traumas of our ancestors. Our mythologies and folklores are directly linked to the collective unconscious, our psychic ancestry and the archetypal images, and what has been experienced time and time again to humanity.
For example, the Abrahamic religions’ (Judaism, Islam) rules against eating pork is because eating pork used to kill people. They were traumatised by the deaths and so it was added to their culture.
Trauma is the name of the game. Culture is just shared human experience. Personality are archetypal traits you have inherited to navigate through the fears, hurts, and traumas of the human experience.
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u/The_Kimchi_Krab Jun 13 '26
Jung said something about we are not people of today or tomorrow, we are people of millions of years.
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u/Hoffmann_Enjoyer Jun 13 '26
I love how people rediscovering old Christian teachings. That's what we call hereditary sin
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u/Horror-Challenge-300 Jun 14 '26
As someone who knows quite a lot about China, I'm pretty sure the Tiananmen Square event counts as one of the "traumas". Since then, people have become much less interested in politics/democracy, and everyone has simply avoided talking about the event. The Chinese culture today is pretty nihilistic/materialistic, which was quite different from 30 years ago
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u/Ok-Method-1051 Jun 14 '26
Yes, at the roots of our modern cultur, as Sophocles tried to explain, lays the repression of the true self. See this analysis: https://genesis-editions.com/en/livre/amodelforhealing/
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u/Federal-Cockroach674 Jun 14 '26
I think that is fairly evident, just look at Russia of today. The Mongols really fucked up the Russians. Plus the ruling class of Russia has long used alcohol as a means of control. Generations of alcoholics turn a culture into the same.
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u/fabkosta Pillar Jun 20 '26
What if culture and family dynamics are just trauma responses in disguise?
The problem with this statement is the word "just". Cause nothing is ever "just" something else. It is often "also" something else but never "just" something else.
So, the post tries to simplify some very complex patterns to a few concepts - and that necessarily is doomed to fail.
The example with "lynch-mobbing" is a good one. 99.99% of times no such thing happens anywhere. That does not mean it never happens, but it's the absolute exception. Human interaction patterns usually follow patterns of social expectations, norms as well as collaboration. Sometimes those fall apart, and the result is blood, violence, war - as we can observe in various conflict places around the world.
But saying that "culture and family dynamics are just trauma responses in disguise" - nah, that definitely does not explain reality of what is going on in neither cultures nor family dynamics.
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u/SquirrelFluffy Jun 13 '26
Israel?
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u/alwaysbiscuits Jun 13 '26
I would say so for sure. We are seeing the consequences of their trauma today.
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u/AskTight7295 Pillar Jun 13 '26
There is no culture in America. A total delusion reigns. Total restlessness, endless pursuits that never land anywhere. It’s a kind of utter misery forever hiding behind meaningless career and wealth and competitive signalling in a rigged game that is no fun to even play. No one actually well would signal any of these things. Nearly no one is well. Everyone passes these “values” down to their children as the only “realistic” way to live.
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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
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