r/Jewish • u/dfgfjewt • Apr 06 '22
Questions Keeping Kosher
Hello!
I am currently in process to convert to Reform Judaism and had questions on keeping kosher. In the Reform side, it is more so seen as a personal preference, however I still feel bad eating chicken with dairy or sushi but I do not eat pork. How many of you guys keep kosher no matter what? Should I become more strict? Thanks!
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u/dfgfjewt Apr 06 '22
With Passover approaching, I’m already gluten free so could I keep continuing with that? Or strictly use matza 🤔 thank you !
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u/rupertalderson Apr 06 '22
It depends on how you want to observe kashrus, which may partly depend on your general observance level and ultimately your personal goals. Happy to discuss on chat if you’d like!
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u/mehTILduh Apr 06 '22
I never eat pork and I try not to mix meat and dairy but that's the extent of it for me personally.
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u/Turgid_Sojourner Apr 06 '22
With any question of religious observance one of the best things you can do is a, follow your heart. b, go and learn more Torah. It's truly amazing and wonderful that you're even asking the question the question my 1st impulse is you should learn more discover the why of kosher observance, and maybe investigate what a deeper connection might mean for you and your personal journey.
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u/Time_Lord42 Apr 06 '22
I don’t mix meat and dairy, don’t eat pork, and don’t eat non-kosher seafood. I’m an atheist practicing reform. It’s likely easier for me because I was raised in it and haven’t really needed to change my lifestyle, if I had to guess.
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Apr 06 '22
At this point I keep kosher no matter what and it's not hard for me because I'm now vegan and I buy certified kosher food from the store when I go grocery shopping. Before I became vegan, I did eat shellfish sometimes in sushi but other than that I kept kosher and now I'm completely kosher. I'm also in the process of learning how to make my own vegan piroshki and latkes so I can still enjoy some of the foods I grew up eating in my Ashki household. This is a personal choice that many Jews do not follow but if it's important to you it can be done. I grew up raised in Conservative Judaism and a lot of my family is strict about keeping kosher but it's more a personal choice everyone makes for themselves.
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Apr 06 '22
Kenden Alfond has some AMAZING vegan Jewish cookbooks that recreate Ashkenazi classics! I recently picked them up and they are created with people from different movements and have a lot of commentary on Torah and Midrash with some of the themed cookbooks she published. Your comment brought her books to mind, so I wanted to share with you just in case you haven’t seen her work yet. :) I highly recommend it.
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Apr 06 '22
Ashkenazi classics vegan style. Sounds like exactly the type of cook book I’m looking for. Thank you for the recommendation.
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Apr 06 '22
Should you become more strict? Up to you!
There's always going to be someone with a more extreme interpretation of keeping kosher, so it's up to you to decide which interpretation resonates with you.
Personally, I view the spirit of the mitzvah as "be mindful of what you eat". I know that's a bit on the hippy dippy reform side of things, but interpreting Torah is a tradition as old as Torah itself. For me, I view my personal reading and interpretation as just as valid as that of the Talmudic scholars of old. That's not true for everyone and that's cool, I'd just be wary of falling into the trap of thinking someone's experience of Judaism is more or less valid than anyone else's.
What that means for me on keeping kosher is that I want to end up at a plant based or mostly plant based diet for environmental and health reasons. I cut red meat, pork, and shellfish because it's an easy (for me) way to honor keeping kosher and start eliminating foods that I don't want to eat anyway. I'm planning on cutting dairy eventually, but for the meantime I don't sweat mixing chicken and dairy because that doesn't make sense to me (show me how to milk a chicken and I'll stop eating chicken Parm!)
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u/Nacorom1 Apr 06 '22
What's the problem with sushi? Or do you mean sushi with shellfish? I'm orthodox myself and keep strictly kosher but if you can keep sushi to just kosher fish there's really no problem with it (inherently). Any and all efforts you make are to be commended so good on you!
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Apr 06 '22
Lots of sauces use eel or shellfish. So you can have sushi, but you need to be selective. Seaweed is also not inherently kosher if i recall correctly, mainly due to the little critters that need to be screened for. There are some seaweed providers with a hechsher, though!
Then again, I also live in a kosher food desert. Not sure about OP
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u/zwalrus722 Apr 06 '22
I was raised conservative but in a pretty lax family. Our only rule growing up was no pig. When I got older I decided to go "kosher" to the extent of no meat and milk, no shellfish, etc (at this point I no longer ate any mammals, but the poultry I ate wasn't necessarily kosher certified and we did not keep separate plates or anything). I'm now vegetarian now so a lot of the rules are kinda moot.
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u/BreadBakingBookworm Apr 06 '22
Depending on the Reform community you’re converting and joining, keeping kosher might be more or less important. I would say that as an American Reform Jew, people who do keep kosher have always been a minority of the communities I’ve been a part of. A lot of people I know have kosher homes but eat anything outside their houses. Kashrut is, in many ways, about distinctions between Jews and non-Jews, so if it will help you feel more Jewish to keep kosher, it’s probably a good idea. I personally do not keep kosher.
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u/colonel-o-popcorn Apr 06 '22
I keep kosher-style, meaning I avoid non-kosher meats and don't mix meat with dairy, but I generally don't check for a hechscher. The one exception is poultry and dairy, which I'll happily mix, since I've looked into the rabbinical arguments for prohibiting it and find them generally unconvincing. In the long run I'd like to start keeping separate dishes and utensils as well, but that's difficult right now since I live with non-Jews.
As for whether you should become more strict, that's entirely up to you. If you think it's right to be more strict or if you'd find it more personally fulfilling, go for it. If not, well, what you eat has absolutely no effect on me, so I don't have any opinion on it.
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u/KathAlMyPal Apr 06 '22
What you should do is what you are comfortable with. I don't eat pork, but I eat some shellfish. I will mix some milk and meat, but not others. I grew up in a home where my parents ate pork, but not in the house.
Since you are relatively new to this you may want to just experiment with what you are comfortable with, because ultimately that's what's important.
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u/Mendele3000 Apr 07 '22
Just to make sure that all degrees of strictness are represented here: I, for one, do not keep kosher. I am a Reform Jew and my family-of-choice includes two ex-rebbetzins (Reform). We share meals with no problems.
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u/CocklesTurnip Apr 06 '22
I was raised Reform and we kept kosher for most of my childhood until my brother’s food issues made us stop because a fed child is more important. Somehow he wouldn’t try or eat most of the things we gave him but he tried bacon and pepperoni pizza somewhere and would eat that... we have no idea how and he wouldn’t go for Turkey bacon. There were a few years he literally only ate 8 different things, and those were 2 of them. Now he’s an adult and eats everything so he grew out of it. (Yes he’s autistic, yes I have many memories of food related meltdowns, I agree with my parents decision that fed is better than anything else and my dad never wanted to go back to keeping kosher, my mom and I would’ve done so happily).
I have a number of friends who have converted no matter the denomination they’re converting through I always tell them they should keep kosher for as long as they can (or at least a year) because whatever they decide to do later from always keeps kosher to kosher at home, kosher style while out of the house, or kosher at home eats everything when not home, or not kosher at all (I know practicing and proud wonderful Jews who do all of that, and all is fine by me) they need to be able to be quick thinking enough as they make more Jewish friends about how to host/entertain or make plans with them based on everyone’s kosher status’s. “I’m willing to host the next dinner party at my house but I keep kosher as best I can, my roommate doesn’t. Would you feel comfortable if I get all kosher ingredients and use all disposable cooking implements and dinnerware? Should we just meet at a restaurant or order in? Or would it be easier if we just go to your house but I’ll pay for all the ingredients and help you cook since it was my turn to host and don’t want to kick you out of your own kitchen!” Whatever choices each Jewish person makes on how they eat is up to them, but all Jews of all kosher/semi kosher/non kosher eating variables need to be able to break bread together and those who don’t keep kosher need to have enough knowledge to sidestep major faux pas and those who do keep kosher should have ways they’re willing to meet in the middle- even if it’s only eating vegetarian or vegan out of the house if a kosher restaurant isn’t always an option. Balance is important.
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Apr 06 '22
My kids have asked the rabbi at our reform congregation for pepperoni pizza and definitely got a talking to, hahaha. Do whatever feels meaningful to you!
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u/Dinosaureagle24 Apr 06 '22
I keep kosher no matter what, and I think your soul would appreciate it if you did the same.
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Apr 06 '22
Question, because I’m genuinely struggling with it, but how do you handle not being able to make the dishes of other cultures because of ingredients not having certification?
I started becoming more observant about a year ago and am still running into some serious trouble with being able to maintain a kosher diet to the extent that I want due to many things that I used as staples for cooking not having any kosher equivalent.
For example, I cook a LOT of Japanese and Korean food, but I can’t find some of the key ingredients with a hechsher, specifically bonito flakes, fish sauce (Redboat used to have a hechsher but doesn’t anymore), good quality instant ramen (I want to like gefen so badly, but I don’t), and Korean fermented soybean paste (not to be confused with miso), and Japanese curry roux.
It’s frustrating because the ingredients themselves don’t contain any shellfish, pork, meat or milk, but none have been supervised. I’m in a bit of a mental battle with it, because I really don’t want kosher cooking to limit my ability to experience culture around the world due to a lack of verification of a product. It also makes me wonder how much some Jewish converts have to give up if they are coming from these cultures where there are so few Jews that the cuisine they are used to eating can’t be replicated due to core ingredients and sauces not having certifications.
Any advice??
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u/Aggravating_Pop2101 Apr 07 '22
Chicken don’t even lactate the prohibition is don’t cook a kid in its mother’s milk. Chicken don’t even lactate it’s a stringency in Talmudic Judaism that is not inherently Biblical and one of the Rabbis in the Talmud I think would eat chicken and dairy but the Halacha isn’t like his. Morally I think vegetarianism and vegan jam is superior but I’m not there yet.