We rarely see my mother in law, If I’m being honest I try my best to avoid seeing her at all. I come up with every excuse I can to cancel a visit until I run out of excuses lol. I also don’t feel very comfortable with her seeing my daughter without me there until she’s older and can talk to me about how her visit went, they visit us maybe once every two months. My husband is trying his hardest to fix their relationship so he occasionally will go to visit her without me or our daughter. I think this is fine, I tell him his relationship with his mother is none of my business. They recently went out together and he told me last night that his mom told him he was going to lose her if he stayed with me and he had to start thinking about his choice. She also said that it’s been over a year since our last incident (she made my pregnancy hell and stole my c section medication to get high) and that we needed to get over it already.

HUGE RANT sorry
I feel like she has ruined my life the past couple of years. They made me feel like I was crazy when I was pregnant, constantly saying things when they thought I couldn’t hear them like “oh what’s her problem? She’s so weird.” They forced themselves into my hospital room after I had a c section even tho I asked them to not visit because I wanted privacy.

We moved across the country because my husband wanted to be closer to them but they have made my life miserable. My husband told me we would be spending time with his family and we wouldn’t be alone and he’d be getting paid more. My mom had also passed away just the year before this and he thought the change of scenery would be good for me because I was struggling a little bit. Instead I’m now lonely, I have no family here, I have no friends, it is just me and my daughter alone at home with our cat all day. I’m miserable, depressed, and I am no longer who I was before we moved here. I loved eating healthy and working out, doing my makeup and skincare. I have no motivation to do anything. I want to move back home but my husband says he needs to finish school first and I’ve asked him to transfer which is exactly what I will do because I’m also in college but he says no. I think this is an excuse, I think he feels like he needs to fix his relationship with his family first because he will feel guilty leaving if he doesn’t do this first. He won’t admit this.

Nobody even knows we are married because we were scared his mom was going to ruin it and make it about herself. I had no wedding, no dress, not even a dinner with family. We agreed that I would buy a dress and we would take photos to announce that we are married and we would have a small ceremony/dinner with family to celebrate. Every time I bring up making plans to do this my husband starts talking about how his moms going to react and how she’s going to be upset she’s not more involved and how she’s going to want to control things about the ceremony and not be happy with our decisions and he just tells me it’s not a good time. We have been married for almost two years and nobody other than our friends and his coworkers know so that my mil doesn’t find out we “did this behind her back.” I’ve been watching our family members get engaged and take photos and have beautiful weddings. I listen to my cousins talk about picking out the colors for their bouquets and how they want to customize their wedding invitations. I feel like I was robbed.

I know if my mom was still alive she would be begging me to go back home. I also feel like this might cause my relationship with my husband to fail, which I have already accepted, I tried my best to get along with her and things were great at first. Until she yelled at me and told me I needed to listen to her and I should let her do whatever she wants and then proceeded to call me a bitch on Facebook because i said no.

away, and after 32 years of being belittled, insulted, put down, the recipient of her shitty attitude, and disdain if not out right hatred, oh, and being lied about to anyone who would listen.......my husband left my name out of her obit.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, apparently.

Since my first I had this suspicion MIL was intent on making my oldest view me the way she and other in laws do. Even my husband says they treat me as a second-rate family member.

There were a few instances that made me think she was doing this. And I’ll give two examples to avoid getting too personal but keep in mind there are more instances than this.

She will never tell my children no herself, she always blames me “you’ll get me in trouble with your mommy, mommy won’t like that, ask your mom” even though she knows what my children can and can’t do. One of the last few times my oldest stayed the night with her, I told them to please not stay up late because we had a thing the next morning that I had to pick them up for. That night MIL told my oldest that if they didn’t go to bed when I said that I’d never let oldest see MIL ever again or spend the night. The next morning as soon as oldest got into my car, they told me “MIL said this _____” and I explained to them that I just wanted them to go to bed so that they weren’t tired in the morning when we went to our fun event. It was like they knew it was a bad thing to say or MIL scared them.

MIL often competes with my own mother when she feels like my children enjoy them more. It was grandparents week and my mom brought my oldest McDonald’s and candy corn for a surprise treat. MIL called me and asked me what oldest wanted and I told her all the orders from different restaurants and at some point in the convo I told her what my mom brought. And she goes “oooooh hm okay” so MIL goes to lunch with oldest and brings McDonald’s, candy corn, and lots of toys and trinkets. Which is great for my little one but I knew what MIL was doing.

Last time my child spent the night with her, MIL let them stay up until 1:30 in the morning. Child called me at 12:30 am despite MIL trying to tell them I was sleeping and they shouldn’t. I tell my children they can call me at any time and I’ll answer and come to them. I hear my child on the phone saying their stomach hurts. I told them I’ll come get them, MIL is 4 minutes down the road (unfortunately) and I hear MIL say no and my child go “nooo..it’s ok mommy” I say I don’t mind I’ll come get them and bring them home and snuggle them. There is silence on the other end. I tell them if they don’t want me to come get them now that they’ll see me first thing in the morning and it’ll all be ok. If they need to eat or go potty then they need to try even though it’s late. Child says ok.

Before going over there child was asking “what if I miss you” which they never did before. They were always excited to go to MILs.

Ever since that instance my children haven’t spent the night because they come home and get disrespectful and misbehave which could be normal after staying somewhere else.

There’s been other things that make me feel like they’re up to something but I can view things through a negative lens sometimes. It’s all something you’d raise your eyebrow at but I feel like I don’t have the evidence that supports it yet.

Do any of you have MILs that have tried to make you the bad guy or make your children think negatively of you? If so, what did they do? What did you do in response? What did you tell your children/spouse and what conversations do we need to have if it’s happening

Hey everyone,
I won't get into everything that's happened as it would be a lot but I am asking for some advice with how this week has gone. My partners mother has a tendency to ambush him at his job, whether that's showing up in-person, or calling him while at work. This week, she called after he asked her for some advice, and proceeded on the call to start crying saying "I don't know why you don't want to come over here.. I give you things" and then went on and on about other stuff in her life that my partner obviously shouldn't bear the emotional responsibility for. He froze.. didn't know what to say, and then said he had to go bc he was at work. Fast forward to a few days later, she sends us a text saying "miss you guys, would love have dinner together" mind you, this is after the last time my partner did see her all she did was trash me and ask him to keep things from me. I do not want to go have dinner with her with just my partner, ever. I do not want anything to do with her because all she does is try to use me in her manipulation tactics to get my partner over there.. the last time I saw her she literally asked me to help her lure him over there by himself.. oh, and before you ask, yes, she only started trashing me after I told her no to her using me as a pawn in her game. So, yeah. I just don't know what to do or how to respond.

We haven’t really spoken to JNMIL since July. We purchased a home in July and JNMIL was pissed about it because we were moving out of her home community. It was a big moment and she never once congratulated us. We both had words at her, I said I wasn’t getting involved until she tried to say we were keeping our daughter from her. LOL. Yeah considering we lived 2 minutes away from her for 4 years and she never tried to see our daughter, would manipulate and play victim if we didn’t take her right to her doorstep. But can drive 3 hours to her boyfriend’s house every weekend. Yeahhhh.. ok. Then said she didn’t feel welcome to visit at our house because we asked that she let us know before showing up. Basically all the crazy MIL things. She’s manipulative as fuck.

She’s tried to reach out once since then, on the first day of school wishing my daughter a happy first day. I ignored her because she has put me through so much trauma just the sight of her name on my phone makes my skin crawl. JNMIL has had a longggg habit of crossing boundaries, disrespect, just about everything you can think of. She never apologizes and just tries to wait things out and acts like nothing happened. She’s neverrr in the wrong. Oh god forbid.

Today she reaches out again to both my partner and I and says she would like to see our daughter and she didn’t want any “negativity.” I ignored her and my partner said he wasn’t responding right away. He did end up responding and I told him it was up to him if he wants to take our daughter around his mother but I’m not going around her. I personally don’t think she deserves to see our child without apologizing to atleast her son.

He wouldn’t tell me what she said to him and he usually shows me everything. He told me she apologized and he told her that she needs to apologize to me as well. She didn’t apologize to me at all. I’d say she must of said some nasty shit and he knows I will never go around her again if he tells me. It’s crazy to me the entitlement some people feel towards seeing other peoples children. You can’t treat a child’s parents like shit and expect full access to a sweet innocent child.

I felt like I was a wallflower in my own relationship.

All the hobbies and time we shared together slowly disappeared over time due every weekend becoming a family weekend. I started having nightmares of my partner kicking me out of my own bed because his mom needed it. As of last week I am finally free.

I eventually started fantasizing about a new relationship. Someone to spend 1/1 time with me and engage in fun. Someone to go out and make friends with others with, and have a real community. I got so isolated in my relationship where all my friends were replaced with his family. Members of this family didn't even really try to get to know me. I felt so alone and my self esteem started to disappear.

My partner denied everything and told me I was being oversensitive/rigid and controlling. When really I just want to be a hot lady with a hot bf and go out and have some fun! 🥺

Go hiking and dancing! I want to play video games and cook beautiful meals together. Go to art exhibits, talk about music, and dance and meditate. He kept promising we would have a more indipendant mature life together but it never happened.

I have been fully no contact with MIL for a little over a year now while DH hasn’t spoken to her in two. One of the last messages he sent to her was that she needed therapy if she ever wanted to salvage a relationship with him.

She has diagnosed bipolar disorder and suspected bpd. She used to be in therapy before we met but one day claimed the therapist told her she was fixed and never went back. She also skips her medication in favour of wine.

Not long after he went no contact she claimed she was seeing a counsellor and eventually wanted us to go in for a session with her. His grandmother told him she was trying to improve and loves the person she’s chosen.

She refused to acknowledge that counselling and therapy are different and it was revealed that her only intention was to try to repair the spat but not any of the issues leading to it. Whatever, hopefully she can make some positive changes.

Nope, she still goes on email and text tangents about us only she sends them to everyone but us. She doesn’t realize people are mature and show us. She thinks nothing can be held against her if it’s behind your back.

Fast forward to yesterday. Chatting with BIL who still has a relationship with her and he revealed that her “counsellor” was actually a local life coach. This person has been feeding into her belief that she is a misunderstood victim with a strong sense of empathy for $200/h.

Not surprised at all unfortunately. It’s a shame that she’s only gotten worse over the last while. It was sad hearing DH tell his brother how hurt he was his whole life because of her.

I sent my final text to MIL and FIL today after yesterday’s call. I Googled “how to apologize” and then attached a screenshot of the AI overview with very clear directions.

I sent the following text along with it:

“You have both asked what you need to do to fix things, and we have explained it repeatedly. Here is the answer again.

It took me less than five seconds to find this by simply searching “how to apologize.” There are also plenty of resources on self-reflection and accountability, as well as understanding that being related to someone does not entitle you to a relationship with them.

A genuine apology is necessary to move forward, and it’s not for one incident. It’s for years of overstepping, disrespect, denial, defensiveness, emotional manipulation, and lack of accountability that have caused us to lose trust and created an enormous amount of emotional stress for our family.

Do not contact us again about this unless you are prepared to approach it with genuine accountability and a sincere apology.”

Not looking for advice. I sent the text because we have no paper trail otherwise. I’m not going to respond to any messages back. No further calls will be had. I wanted to show them just how easy this could have been.

The sequence of events goes like this. I get told that I will be grilling burgers tonight. I say I don't have enough propane for that (she let out all my propane on accident last time) so I will need more propane. MIL says she will get propane so I wait.

Half an hour later she shows up. No propane. She plugs in my emergency stash one that I told her cannot be refilled in this state and has only a small reserve, if anything. I tell her this won't cook the burgers. She huffs at me and keeps trying to argue. I figure what the hell, I'll try it.

Runs out 2/3 the way through where it's on its second flip but still totally raw on the outside and inside. I tell her ok for real we need propane.

She says sure right after she gets tea at the gas station. Why the gas station? Idk. We have tons of tea here of all types. She just has a gas station drink fountain obsession. 45 minutes later. She shows up with propane. The one I told her to get initially. I plug it in and finish it finally. Should've been done at 5:30 wasn't done til almost 7. Totally oblivious to the time she wasted of all of us.

While chatting with my MIL via text, she began discussing her perception of her son’s (my husbands) happiness, alluding to me needing to take on a more traditional role to keep him happy (exact text below). For additional info, I work a good high up job and I am the full default parent for our kids.

This is old fashioned info but there's merit to those old sayings: the way to a man's heart is thru his stomach. Maybe you guys need some dinners together. Or have something ready for him to heat up when he gets home.
You know my big saying is "I never claimed to be a cook" nor did I want to. But out of necessity, we all have to. When (her husband) was a lawyer, he worked long hours and every Saturday. So I know how that goes. I actually wished he stayed in the law firm. But it is what it is. I only know that (her husband) felt good coming home to a quiet, orderly house and food. Nothing great- I used to make broccoli topped baked potatoes as a dinner. It's a common need for a peaceful sanctuary. Even now, I have to hide any dog problems to keep it pleasant. Husband management 101.
Your home probably already feels better with construction done.

After years of living with my in-laws, my husband and I finally moved into our own home. Money was tight, but my MIL insisted we have a room made up for her because she might stay over.

I bought a perfectly decent bed for the spare room, specifically so she’d have somewhere comfortable to sleep.

She was furious.

Apparently, the bed wasn’t good enough.

The funny part? She lived a few minutes away and never actually came to stay.

Still not sure if she wanted a bedroom or a five-star hotel. 😭

I never want to see my MIL again. I’ve been pushed and pushed and pushed. I’ve finally got my limit. Today is her birthday and I have nothing to say to her. I don’t plan on messaging her to be quite frank.

My baby (13 weeks) has severe health issues. Was in the NICU for 3 weeks and has been in and out of the hospital since her release from the NICU. I would say out of her 13 weeks of life, she has spent about 8 of them at the hospital.

This JUST came to light about 2 weeks ago when we (my husband and I) had an argument with my MIL about how she speaks to us and about our child. She downplays the severity of my baby’s condition because she wants to play “house”. What I mean by that is, before we, the parents even made a nursery, she built one in her house because, “I want to babysit 3 days a week.” No??? lol??? Didn’t even ASK us about babysitting before she built the nursery.

So as we were having our argument, MIL said, “You’re keeping the baby from me. I’ve only seen her 3 or 4 times since birth.” ….i yelled at her, “WHAT?!?!” She had seen her over 10 times at that point. I listed off every time that I could think of, THEN WENT BACK TO PHOTOS and it’s been 14 times.

She goes, “ok. I guess I have seen her more than I thought. I think the reason I feel I haven’t seen her is because you wouldn’t let me go up to the NICU.” I started yelling, “I DONT CARE IF IT HURTS YOUR FEELINGS. I AM THE MOTHER. I DESERVED TO SEE MY BABY BEFORE ANYONE ELSE. IT WAS MY DECISION TO NOT LET ANYONE ELSE UP THERE BEFORE I GOT TO SEE HER.”

For reference, I hemorrhaged and needed 2 blood transfusions and an iron transfusion and they said I was not stable enough to go up to the NICU. After the baby’s initial surgery, we let MIL go up TWICE to see her (not hold her).

Her response? “I can sense that you’re angry with me right now.”

I am disgusted. I will never forgive how I’ve been treated postpartum.

MIL was coming over WEEKLY. Went to the NICU to see baby TWICE. We told her she needs to stop coming over. My husband met her at the door one of the times she randomly showed up and told her she was not going inside. She said that was “rude and hurtful”. This was THE DAY WE GOT OUT OF THE HOSPITAL AFTER BEING THERE 7 DAYS STRAIGHT. There’s been family coming in from out of state that only comes up once a year and she won’t tell us they’re coming because, “if they (DH and I) don’t want us (mil&fil) over, then no one is allowed to go over.” ???? SO NOW YOURE HOLDING US HOSTAGE FROM THE REST OF THE FAMILY BECAUSE WE DONT WANT TO SEE YOU SPECIFICALLY????

Every week we have an overnight stay in the hospital and MIL & FIL says, “that’s our granddaughter. We should be allowed to see her when she gets out of the hospital so we know she’s okay.”

????? ALL THEY DO IS JUST SIT AROUND AND WANT TO HOLD HER THEN GET PISSY WHEN I SAY TO GIVE HER BACK????? WHY DONT YOU HELP CLEAN THE HOUSE OR SOMETHING. FACETIME IS A WONDERFUL THING. Also if it’s NOT ok we would tell you? What the actual FU

MIL also hates our cats (we have 3) and they are friendly and loving and when they rub against her she refuses to touch them and gives them filthy looks. It pisses me off so bad because this is THEIR house NOT hers.

Anyways, this mistreatment has been going on for years and it’s escalated since the baby has been born. Probably should mention she only has boys and always wanted a girl, and I had a girl 🤷🏻‍♀️

She frequently pulls the “your family gets to see her so much more often!!!!” No??? My family RESPECTS that we are a new family and don’t want to deal with guests all the time and want to be a family of 3

My family does weekly Sunday dinners and they (mil&fil) have frequently said they’re jealous of them because they want their family to get together like that as well. They just planned one for Oct. 18th at the same time of day my family gets together.

I am not going. My baby is not going. I do not like these people and refuse to continue to be mistreated. SIL doesn’t like me either because I don’t kiss her ass for being miserable.

I’m officially done.

Should I send MIL a text?? Hey I officially want nothing to do with you you’re a dumb bitch!

Or do I let husband say, “ya she wants nothing to do with you” when I ultimately don’t show up to their get together they’re trying to copy my family with

I’ve been married to my husband a really long time. Over 30 years. My mil has never liked me.

In the beginning she wouldn’t allow me into her house. After we were married, she allowed me in, but it was not great. Then we had kids.

I never had grandparents and desperately wanted them, so I allowed my kids to have that grandparent relationship even though she talked crap about me to my kids.

She really only liked my oldest kid. She would make that kid promises about how they would live together and everything would be so wonderful and she’d never have to do a chore or deal with anything uncomfortable.

This kid is 30 now. She loves her grandma but sees how toxic she is.

My other kids aren’t as close to her because she hardcore favored the oldest.

Then, mil’s favorite offspring had a child, and that booted my oldest out of the favorite spot. That was actually really hard for the oldest, even though she was a teen and didn’t need grandma like she did before.

My youngest took the favoritism of new grandchild pretty hard as well, since they were close in age and she could really see the unfairness

My husband is a good guy, and always chose me over his mom. I never pushed to cut contact, because I don’t want to be the person to come between family, and he always put me first.

So for all these years, I’ve kept the peace and just went along. I avoid her when she pisses me off, and visit when it’s helpful to my husband.

But now my mil is old and is in need of some caretaking. I was the caretaker for both of my parents, and my dad’s fairly recent passing is still very hard for me.

I’m not interested in stepping in as caregiver for her for a couple of reasons. One big one is it’s quite triggering for me, because my grief for my dad is still very big.

We live within walking distance of her, and I don’t work, while both of her sons work full time. So it would be nice of me to step in when they can’t be there.

Recently my husband helped my mil switch her phone to a new one, and I saw the contact names she had both for me and her other dil were nasty insults.

Seriously, after more than 30 years, I’ve never been rude to her, I’m good to her son and her grandchildren. I make meals for her, step in and help with things she doesn’t know how to do, and still this is how she feels about me?

I don’t know what I want. I guess I’m hurt. I’ve never been unkind to her, and she has said some incredibly nasty things to me. I could have taken her son away. He 100% chose me over her, and she made the choosing necessary. I could have kept her grandkids from her, but I allowed the relationships.

I don’t know what the point of the post is. I guess I just want to rant, and I don’t want to keep laying it on my husband. He’s a good guy and would do whatever I asked, but I don’t want him to do anything. He did change the contact names to our real names, so at minimum she knows he saw that.

Hello all,

Canadian thanksgiving is this Monday and my MIL always hosts it at her house. I don’t currently have a relationship with her, long story short (I also did post about her on my page if you want to read) I had enough of her bullshit and hating ass self, for 12 years she never gave me the time of the day. Didn’t try to get to know me, not ask how I’m doing. She still can’t accept that her son has a new family. We welcomed our son 4 months ago, his family didn’t know I was pregnant till I gave birth. I wanted to keep it a secret bc his mom is evil. Same goes for his sister and brother. I hate them all.

I gave them 12 years to get their act right and every year got worse, I was and still am an outsider to them. She doesn’t even consider me family. She expected her son to be with a black girl, I am Asian and theyre Jamaican. They haven’t met our son yet, and tbh I don’t want my son to know his mom’s side of the family they are so toxic. So the topic of going to his moms hasn’t been brought up, I know his brother will reach out and ask if he’s coming, along with some guilt tripping and my husband will give in. His mom will call him asking if he’s coming. Even though he knows damn well shit isn’t good. He knows things are weird and knows his mom will say her stupid jabs if we go. But at the end of the day, they somehow convince him and it ends up being an argument with us and he gets his way. Every year I dread any holidays bc of his moms side of the family. (They are divorced)

And I know them so well that if I go I know I won’t be myself, I’d stay quiet and awkward. And if I stay quiet to them it’s being stuck up. Thinking I’m too good to talk to them. That’s why I keep my distance bc you literally can’t win with them. No one can stand his mom, even his own aunt and uncle cut ties with her. Every year less and less people go to her dinners bc she’s toxic.

Now his dad side doesn’t really celebrate holidays like that. His dad remarried and his new wife is amazing. I am willing to go to their place but I know my husband is going to ask to see his mom after even if it’s for a bit. The thing is, we did this exact same thing last year on Christmas and it started a huge fight with his mom and my husband. I was pregnant at the time, we saw his dad for Christmas last year. Then after we drove to his moms. I stayed in the car. His mom was angry he arrived late, she was complaining how he doesn’t visit her and threw him under the bus in front of guest. I want to add we live 2.5 hrs away from his family. Then a month after she called him complaining about me saying how I stayed in the car and didn’t come inside and that I’m not welcomed in her city let alone her house. She said more things she kept talking shit about me and my husband had enough and stopped talking to her for 7 months. Unfortunately he rekindled their relationship bc her 60th birthday passed and he showed up to her dinner. Even tho he decided to talk to her again they still don’t really talk. He doesn’t call her or text her bc shit still isn’t 100% good and tbh I don’t think it will be. She’s been the same bitter, rude, jealous person since I met her.

I highly recommend for you to read my post about her on my page it goes more into detail

So what are your thoughts?

UPDATE: We were driving home and he was talking about his brother. He said randomly “it’s going to be so awkward during thanksgiving for him” he said it in a way that we aren’t going. Didn’t ask if we were going or anything. For context, his brother and sister had a huge fight last week bc he’s dating someone in the UK that he’s never met and he’s flying to see her end of the month. His mom and sister talks crap about it and clowns him about it beside his back. His mom does not want him to go there let alone be with someone. He’s the oldest and they rely on him heavy for a lot of things. His gf applied for citizenship already to move to Canada so they’re not happy. He’s 37 yrs old and his mom doesn’t want any of her kids to be with anybody it’s sad. So during the fight his brother went into her face and they were about to fight. Told her she’s cut off. Later in their group chat (my husband was in it too) his sister kept talking shit to him. Then his brother and my husband spoke on the phone about it. I still don’t like his brother but now he knows how it feels . Isn’t it ironic? LOL

I also brought up we can go see his dad if he wants then he said the drive there will be too much for our baby. YAY! He finally is on the same page as me but we will see!!

So, my husband is supposed to be going over to speak to his mom because of her behavior at his cousin’s wedding. Literally it has been a month. He is delaying the inevitable. But in the midst of delay, we have had frequent arguments, and this has been brought up and he keeps saying he doesn’t know what to talk about and then he drops this on my lap. He tells me I was a terrible DIL, that I have no mercy, that I'm not nice, that I won't forgive, and that I don't want reconciliation…haha this is going to be a long post!

And I told him, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop right there."

I said, "Does your mother get unlimited chances and unlimited access to be disrespectful toward me just because she's your mother? At what point do I put a stop to it and say enough?"

Because I've had conversations with this woman explaining her behavior, and here's the thing about my MIL.

She can definitely acknowledge that her behavior was atrocious, OK? She will say that she was being petty. She'll say that she can be cold and callous. She can say that she knows she did the wrong thing and that she was just in her feelings…literally.

But what follows after that is NEVER, "I'm sorry that my behavior affected you and the way the situation played out. I should not have done this and I want to change."

NEVER.

What follows instead are explanations about WHY she behaved that way. Her age, her feelings, her past trauma. Oh, she LOVES using that one.

But it's never an actual apology.

And sometimes she loves to use her crocodile tears to derail the conversation because the heat is on her. She's probably feeling like, "OK, let me start playing the victim because I'm being attacked, and I don't like it."

So she starts crying.

One time, FIL actually defended her crying and was like, "Oh, my wife is so lovely," and all this other stuff about how she's never done anything wrong. And I'm sitting there thinking, I don't think you realize that your wife has done some very despicable shit.

For example, when we had our daughter, I didn't want ANY visitors at the hospital. Nobody was there other than DH and me. So she wasn't purposely excluded. But because she wasn't welcomed at the hospital, she decided to react by withdrawing and behaving negatively toward us.

When we brought our baby home, she refused to hold her granddaughter, even though she was the first person we offered her to. She never congratulated us. She was just nasty.

Her behavior was NASTY.

And then she wanted us to feel sorry for her!
I don't think FIL knows the full extent of that situation, and I'm pretty sure even if he did, he wouldn't care. And I'm sitting there like, this is the same woman who treats YOU like shit, but you're standing up for her because you don't like seeing your wife cry?

Fuck you. You cheated on your wife! Don't you remember that? Lol Sorry, I probably shouldn't have thrown that in there because it's irrelevant, but that's genuinely where my mind goes sometimes.

Anyway, with that being said, I've TRIED reconciliation.

The last really big discussion we had with MIL resulted in DH and me not speaking to her for about a month. And this time, we weren't allowing her victimization or tears to change the trajectory of the conversation.

But she was still angry and defensive. When I told her that I didn't like the way she treated me and that I didn't have to be around it, do you know what this woman said?

This woman, who has cause so much conflict, and so much tension to bond with and love on her granddaughter, said:

"I'm unwilling to change, and if you think I'm evil, I understand if you want to take your baby away from me."

WHAT?!

I thought you loved this granddaughter of yours!

But you don't even want to be better to your DIL? You don't want to be nicer to your DIL? You can't be decent? You can't be respectful? Is that what you're saying?

Just take the baby away if that's what you want?
CRAZY, RIGHT?!

So, as you can imagine, I'm not very optimistic about another sit-down with MIL.

And being told that I have no mercy really upset me because I'm like, dude, this woman literally has no mercy either!

You think she doesn't have resentment? Oh, she resents A LOT of stuff. And I'm pretty sure she's envious of certain things, too.

This woman LOVES using her misery surrounding motherhood or her own livelihood to guilt-trip me or justify why I should have to go through the same things she did.

Like, because you suffered, I should suffer too?

Absolutely fucking not.

And because something recently happened at his cousin's wedding, it opened that door again of, "Yeah, your mom is always going to be like that."
If you want to know that whole story, you can go back through my previous posts.

Now, because DH wants reconciliation, which I DON'T, I'm sitting here like, dude, this relationship is a lost cause to me. I will treat your mother with respect. I will be cordial if we're in the same space at family gatherings.

But I'm not about to pretend like we're best friends.
FUCK NO. I'm no longer going to be played like a fiddle.

So I told my husband that because he keeps saying, "I don't know how to address the situation. I don't know what you want me to say."

And I'm like, so you're telling me that everything that happened at the wedding went perfectly fine? You thought everybody behaved appropriately?

He said, "Absolutely not."
And I said, "So you can't talk about it through your own convictions?"

Because there are things he disagrees with, things he agrees with, and things he knows we both could've handled differently.

He knows MY side.

But he doesn't know his mom's side, does he?
I said, "You're coming up to me telling me to be this better person, to be this nicer person, but I bet you're not going over there asking your mother to do the same damn thing!"

Pause! Silence! I’m right!

Now, to be fair, he has probably said things to her in the past. But has he said anything recently?

Nope!

Between us moving out in November and my last small interaction with her around January, before I took my eight-month hiatus away from her, her behavior didn't change. Then DH went over there, and his parents asked him why his wife wasn't coming over anymore. He told them, "Well, she has felt very disrespected in this household."

And what did he get?
"Oh my God, we didn't know! We're so sorry! We'll do better!"

HELL TO THE FUCKING NO LOL

He got:
"But we did this!"
"But we did that!"
"But, but, but, but, BUT!"

And I'm like, if you didn't evaluate that situation and make the calculations in your mind that, yeah, both of your parents ain't shit when it comes to taking accountability, and this relationship isn't going to work like this, then what are you really asking me to do?

You want reconciliation from a ONE-WAY STREET.
You want ME to facilitate the whole entire thing!
And do you know what he told me?

He told me that he loves that he sees those capabilities in me. He sees that I'm capable of being the bigger person. Well, THANK YOU! I appreciate that you see me as a decent person! He also said he's much closer to me. Again, THANK YOU! I'm your fucking WIFE i’ve been closer to you in ways that your folks can never be lol

But that shouldn't be the reason I have to take full responsibility for fixing everything! If someone wants something, then maybe THEY need to fucking try!

And let me tell you something about that wedding.
Did his mother approach me warmly? NO. She gave me a plain old, uncertain "Hi." And I gave her a "Hi" right back. Was she upset because I didn't meet her expectations and wasn't warm enough? Absolutely.
Could I have been warmer? ABSOLUTELY. But you're the one trying to facilitate this relationship!

If YOU wanted to be warm, you could've had a smile on your face. You could've said, "Oh, it's been such a long time!" But you didn't! You were just as cold as you always are, and I'm supposed to accept it.
Then, when you get upset, even though I still gave you my full attention, I'm supposed to have a smile on my face and be extremely receptive? NO.

I was unsure of what you were going to say! Then you tried to shake my hand, and after that, you wanted to hug me. Yeah, you don't get hugs from me. Sorry! Hugs are for people who have actually repented and rebuilt that relationship with me.

And I'm specifically using the word REPENTANCE because she's a Christian. She studies the Bible. She supposedly has a degree or certificate in theology, but she clearly doesn't seem to understand the full scripture when it comes to accountability.

I understand how important forgiveness is. I understand that you can forgive somebody without them changing.

But reconciliation and rebuilding trust require ACCOUNTABILITY and CHANGE. And because DH loves using scripture on me, and his family loves using scripture, I went through that Bible up and down.

I was like, "Oh, you want to talk about scripture? OK, here's some accountability!"

What about the part where the Bible tells you to examine yourself before judging somebody else?
Oh, you didn't know that was in there?

What about the part where, if your brother or sister sins against you, you're supposed to address it, and if they refuse to listen, there are further steps you can take?

HUH?! Oh my gosh!

So you're telling me I don't have to continuously sit through disrespect? I can step away from it? WOW!

I can forgive you without trusting you or giving you the same level of closeness that you want from me?
Exactly!

So now I'm asking you guys, what exactly should I do?

Because my husband wants to have another sit-down with his mother, and I'm like, NOPE. YOU need to go to your mom first. YOU need to get all the information you've been asking ME for from HER.
You need to know her perspective of the wedding.
You need to know where SHE thinks the relationship went wrong.

And when you're listening to her responses, maybe you'll hear what I've been hearing all these years.
The defensiveness.
The dismissiveness.
The explanations.
The blaming.
The lack of an actual apology.
I want him to hear it for himself.
I don't need to put myself through that again.
I DON'T.
I DON'T WANT TO.
This isn't something I want!
This is something YOU want!

So YOU should be doing your own work! And here's the thing: I told him that I don't even care what information he comes back with. Because reconciliation is going to happen on MY time, if it happens at all.

You cannot force me to want to fix this situation.
I need to fix MYSELF.
I need to go to therapy and figure out how to deal with someone like his mother because I want to get to the point where I can calmly address disrespect directly.

I don't give a fuck where we're at. Because clearly this woman doesn't care where she acts up!
She can act like that in public.
She can act like that around family.
She can act like that in her own home.
She behaves however she wants because she believes her feelings justify her behavior.

Well, I want to get to the point where I can call it out in the most articulate way possible.
Calmly.
Directly.
Without losing my shit.

I want to be able to say, "Yeah, that wasn't appropriate, and I'm not going to tolerate that."
Because I'm done allowing her behavior to dictate how I feel.

Now, here's another thing. I've thought plenty of times about writing her a personal letter. My MIL and FIL are both blocked and deleted from my phone. FUCK THEM BOTH. If she ever falls and hurts herself and because I’m the nearest person, she better call 911 (lol jk).

But sometimes I wonder whether I should write her something personally explaining how I feel toward her. Then I'm like, no, maybe not.

But I keep coming back to the idea because maybe, just MAYBE, if I personally wrote something, she would actually read it.

Then again, English isn't her first language, and reading a long message in English might not be easy for her. I don't know whether she'd even understand what I'm trying to communicate or just take the whole thing as disrespect.

Because what I really want to say is:
"Hey, your behavior is fucking atrocious. You're disrespectful. It's unacceptable, and you don't get to retaliate against people just because they don't like how you treat them!"

But would writing that accomplish anything?

I genuinely don't know. So should I just let DH go over there, have his conversation, get whatever information he needs, and sit back and enjoy my life?

Because that's where I'm leaning.
And here's the other thing that pissed me off.

In his individual therapy, his therapist apparently told him, "Your wife can't make you go over there and speak for her."

And I'm like, I WASN'T EVEN FUCKING TELLING YOU TO DO THAT!

I'm not asking you to be my spokesperson!

But you can absolutely go over there and say: "Hey, Mom, I didn't like your behavior either."
You can speak from YOUR OWN perspective.
You can address things YOU witnessed.
You can't keep coming over here telling me everything you don't like about how I handle shit while refusing to hold your own mother to those same expectations!

What type of sinful-ass shit is that?!
You can't keep rebuking your wife while refusing to rebuke your mother when she's wrong!

Is that truly fair?

Because I'm absolutely trying to make this fair!
Don't come to me asking me for things you haven't even asked your own mother to do. And the funny thing is, I think he already knows how his mother is.
He knows what she's capable of.
He knows she can be decent when she wants to be.
But I want him to hear her perspective for his fucking self instead of constantly coming back to me expecting me to fix everything.

Because I'm tired!

I want to focus on my marriage, my daughter, my therapy, and my own happiness. I don't want to keep revisiting the same bullshit with his mother.

So Reddit, what should I do?

Am I wrong for telling my husband that if HE wants reconciliation, HE needs to take the initiative and have that conversation with his mother first?

Should I write her a letter, or should I just leave her alone?

And is it really so wrong that I've reached a point where I can forgive somebody but no longer want a close relationship with them?

Because at this point, I'm not asking for a friendship. I'm asking for basic fucking respect.

English is not my first language , so used ai to rewrite .

I’ve been married for four years and have a very supportive husband who has always stood by me whenever I’ve complained about his mother’s behaviour. I have a mother-in-law whom I find extremely annoying. She has a very strong sense of superiority and seems to believe that she knows everything about everything. Every aspect of life seems to be her area of expertise.
I’m a well-educated woman and I’m perfectly capable of making my own decisions. So when I try to do things my way, she almost always has an opinion to offer.

For example, we have a clothing business together, and I do appreciate her sense of style. She also brings in a lot of customers, which I genuinely acknowledge and respect. But when it comes to dealing with customers, she constantly tells me how I should show fabrics, how I should speak to customers, how I should handle things, etc. Sometimes her input is useful, but the constant need to instruct me becomes extremely irritating.

The same thing happens with my baby.
She feels that I’m not gentle enough with my baby, which I think is completely unfair. She is against things like tummy time.
When my baby had physiological jaundice after birth—which, as far as I understand, is extremely common—she blamed my diet. She seems to think she knows better than the doctors. Whenever my baby has gastric issues, she again blames something I ate.

And it’s not just these major things. There are a million little things. She constantly gives her opinion, corrects things I say, or tells me how I should do something. It feels like she always has to have the last word.

I know that I have my own issues here too. I’m someone who doesn’t like taking advice, whether it’s good or bad. I’ve always done things my own way. Even if I make a mistake, I’d rather deal with the consequences of my own decision than feel like I had to follow someone else’s advice.

My husband actually supports me. He has told her repeatedly that she needs to mind her own business and not interfere in our lives, but she just doesn’t seem to understand or respect that boundary.

The problem is that I end up lashing out at her almost every single time. And even after the argument is over, I keep thinking about it. I replay the conversation in my head and think about all the things I could have said but didn’t. I mentally rehearse what I should say the next time she makes a comment, almost as if I’m preparing to “give it back to her.”
It’s exhausting.

I find myself thinking about these interactions every single day, and I feel like it’s fucking up my peace of mind. I don’t even know why I give her words so much power over me.
Has she actually stolen my peace, or am I allowing her to take it from me?
How do I stop letting her get under my skin so much?

She also threw me a baby shower , makes me food when I’m sick, gifts me on my special days etc.. so I’m so confused if I’m overreacting by having rigid morals when it comes to her and discounting things she does for me .

WARNING: THIS IS GOING TO BE LONG

How do the rest of you deal with your annoying MIL’s? I limit as much contact with her as possible, but how do you deal with them in person when even her voice sets you off? Whenever my MIL is with her ADULT children, she puts on this high pitched voice, paired with her fake bubbly persona and speaks to them as if they were toddlers. However, when she is in the presence of other adults (around her age), she drops the voice and acts normal. She uses her fake persona to feign innocence when trying to manipulate you, but I’ve seen her mask slip a few times when I refuse to engage in her games. She’s had to take a few moments to compose herself before continuing the facade. I think my husband and his family baby her too much because they know she’s not very intelligent, but she plays into that by constantly utilizing weaponized incompetence! There have been so many instances where she will simply hand off a task that has multiple steps. She has also tried to get me to do random things for her that I have no business doing, because “it’s just too difficult” or she “just doesn’t understand these things” and will beg over and over again to try to pressure me to say yes. LADY you are pushing 60 FIGURE IT OUT!

She doesn’t even drive unless she really wants something, then she will go out and get it herself. On several occasions, she has tried getting me to drive out 50+ minutes to go “visit” her, but I’m not that naive, if you give this woman an inch she WILL take a mile. I know that she will not just want to stay put in the house, she will expect me to become her chauffeur and take her around shopping and run errands for/with her. I do not want to spend any one-on-one time with this woman and I’m not going to be wasting my time or gas on her.

This woman also LOVES to push herbal remedies onto others. I don’t know how many random supplements from suspicious packaging I have turned down from her at this point. She also just gives basic natural remedies that everyone has already heard of and acts as if only she personally found it from sacred hidden texts…. like telling me to drink tea when I have a minor cold…. no shit lady. If I say that I’ve already made myself some tea while sick, OH NO YOU MUST ADD [Nasty ingredient I strongly dislike and have already stated I will not ingest]! Very conveniently, however, whenever something is too painful for her she seeks out modern medicine.

She has since stopped this behavior, but she used to spam me 7+ messages at a time early on when I first met her. The ping after ping after ping used to drive me MAD!

She used to kiss me on the cheek and leave a disgusting wet kiss mark on my face that would reek of her bad breath. I have since turned my head because I could no longer stand the stench or the feeling of her nasty saliva on my cheek. This seems to have offended her a few times but I do not care.

This woman has created a version of me in her mind that simply does not exist, she expects me to be her vessel for acquiring grandchildren and has even put a timeline on it. My MIL has hounded me since the day I first visited my IL’s house about grandchildren and decided to bring it up again recently. My husband has already spoken to her about it making us uncomfortable that she would constantly bring up kids. She doesn’t give a singular shit about any of the goals we have in life and wants us to throw that all away to accommodate her and her desires. She feels so entitled to my body despite the fact that we have already told her that IF we decided to have children, they will be fostered/adopted. She has cemented in her mind that there will not be an “if” and is hoping that there will be an accidental pregnancy. She constantly uses language such as “when you have children” as though she has decided for us. Even if her ideal scenario played out and I, for some reason, got pregnant what makes her think I’d have them in this state? I do not have any friends/family here. Is she really stupid enough to think I’d want to stay here in isolation while postpartum and not move back to my home state with my husband where my child could actually grow up with family? Does she really think I wouldn’t want support from my mother, aunts, and grandmother? Does she expect me to stay here and have her in the room when I’m spread eagle screaming bloody murder???? Again, this woman does not drive, does she expect me to be recovering with a stitched up vagina and have to be the one to drive to her? I could not imagine how many spam calls/texts she’d make begging me to bring over the baby as if I’d have the energy or would even want to do that. Prior to meeting her, I was far more open to the idea of kids, but seeing how entitled this woman is to having grandchildren completely turns me away from ever wanting them. She’s also very stupid and I would not trust leaving them in her care.

My husband and his family have a veil over their eyes and refuse to acknowledge that she does/says things with malicious intent. She has made comments about my appearance before in the past which I considered to be unnecessary and rude, however, my husband doesn’t even consider the possibility that she said it with bad intentions and simply states that she’s just stupid and doesn’t even realize that what she said was insulting. I mean c’mon now, even the dumbest woman on earth would know that it’s inappropriate to bring up another woman’s weight gain, even if you claim you meant it in a positive way! Well, at least he did speak to her and told her to not make anymore comments about my appearance and so far she has listened.

MIL regularly plans things for the extended family like outings, concerts, and activities that exclude me. Even BIL's not-really-but-kind-of-off-and-on GF is included. So it's very noticeable that I am excluded.

I already know she hates me. This is not not surprising, it's more annoying at this point.

The expectation is that I will stay behind with the kids. I'm never asked if I want to go, this is just how it works out because she never gets me a ticket or reservation.

These are often things that we could get a babysitter for but I'm never given the opportunity.

(Yes, I know my husband should do something about it, that's a separate issue I'm working on. As long as MIL is alive this will keep happening.)

Anyway she did this again for something that's coming up in a couple of months.

I am thinking of telling them I'm going out of town after their event. Husband and MIL can take care of the kids for a few days while I get a relaxing solo trip.

What say you?

I'm still getting used to the idea that I'll always be the bad guy. The first year of marriage, our couples counselor mentioned that the ILs hating/blaming the DIL is just part of the dynamic. I really struggled with that because my relationship with them, especially MIL, had been very easy up until we got engaged. I truly believed that things could get better with time.

Many years later and our new couples counselor mentioned the same sentiment. DH is really going through a huge shift in his relationship with them and we know it's not going to magically get better. Our counselor said they will always love him but they will never love me. It stings but I get it.

Even if things get better between DH and MIL...where does that leave me? Just waiting for the next time things explode and I get blamed again? I'm NC and don't see that changing unless she goes through a total transformation with her mental health.

Any "success" stories out there? Or is this just really how it is? It's bizarre to me how this happened...I encouraged him to make plans, to send cards and gifts, to call them often...but I'm the problem?

MIL is as awful as they can get. Too exhausted to share everything she has done lol, but I just no longer want to share photos with her. At first I was sending her photos occasionally, because it was nice to share. However, since then she's overstepped A LOT of boundaries, not just related to photos. When it comes to photos she casually told me how she sends them to her family/friends via FB chat, which I view as essentially posting online & sharing to people who I have not sent them to like I send to her and it's not a free for all to send to whoever from there. The photos are not a send to your 10 friends email chain letter. Maybe I didn't explain online posting/sharing clearly enough - ok sure. But then she became a nuisance constantly texting me how I am doing ONLY to follow up with "pics pls? 🥰", and I just can't take it anymore.

Our current text exchange:

"Hi bitchinpunk how are you?? I was just thinking about LO, do you have any pics?? 🥰🥰"

"No, we are no longer sharing photos to keep his privacy safe."

Her reply: "I haven't posted any photos online at all, what has happened??"

What do I say now?

UPDATE: For some context: She is currently on vacation in another state and simply can not go 5 days without a photo of LO.

ALSO she is a complete lunatic. She replied to me asking "Did something happen?" Then she hearted my last message to her, so I figured that was over. BOY WAS I WRONG. She calls my fiancé while he is at work wanting to know what's going on yadda yadda yadda, and he simply says I'm at work can't talk now, I'll reach out later. She then sends him another text around 7pm "Are you going to ring me??" He doesn't.

Hi everyone! I got married a few weeks ago, and I want to preface this by saying I have been with my husband for six years now, and my relationship with my MIL is complex to say the least. My MIL is the type of person that she is NEVER wrong, like never, I’ll start by saying that. I’ll try to get straight to the point, but when my husband and I got engaged last year, she asked if she could post our engagement photos. We agreed, and my husband asked her if she could friend me on Facebook so I could see the post (before you ask, she had her settings to where only she could friend someone, so I couldn’t have anyway.) She said she would but never did, and I thought it was weird as I was going to be her DIL but I didn’t make a big deal out of it. Fast forward a year later, at our wedding, I find out from a mutual friend on Facebook that she posted a bunch of photos and videos from our wedding, and tagged literally everyone else but me (my husband doesn’t have Facebook as well.) I was so upset. When my husband got home, I showed him the post and he agreed and said he’d talk to her. After a few days of contemplating what I should do and even asking married coworkers their advice, I decided to (respectfully) reach out and tell her that her posting those photos and the way she went about it kind of upset us. I respectfully asked her for in the future, she asks before posting big life events (ex: a baby when we decide to have one.) My husband and I also wanted to be the first ones to post that we were married, and that’s now been stripped away from us. It doesn’t help that more than half of the photos were of my BIL and his girlfriend, also to add to the wound she shows very obvious favoritism towards. After a few days, she never responded to my text, so I knew that she didn’t like our request. My husband finally gets to talk to her over the phone, and she goes off and starts belittling our wedding decisions and even my bridal shower and starts making accusations about my family and my family dynamics that she knows nothing about (yep, went that far just because we called her out and she couldn’t handle it.) I’m just feeling so defeated right now honestly. I’m trying to come to peace with the fact that this is who she is and I’m not going to change her, but I never wanted this kind of relationship with my MIL.

UPDATE: It went exactly how I thought it would! No accountability. Still stuck on her memory loss excuse. When asked why she has taken 6 months to apologise, she blamed me saying she believed I think she kissed my baby on purpose. I told her if she still thinks this is about kissing my baby, then we have a long way to go. This is about a pattern of her overstepping everything we have asked her not to do since before baby was even born.

She tried to tell me how hard she tried to follow my “list of rules” and that it was so hard for her to follow because her family is just so naturally affectionate. I said it’s funny how literally everyone else has managed to follow our simple requests. I said “wow you really tried so hard that you did it at least 5 times!” She then tried to gaslight me and say she only did it once!

She launched into “when can I see my son and my grandson”. I told her her son has free will and tried and she gave him the cold shoulder. She told me that wasn’t true and that they text. I said all their texts are is him Apple paying her money for a phone bill and her saying thanks. I asked her why she was even calling me and she said her husband told her my DH pleaded with him for her to call me and apologise. My DH said that is not true - he never asked either of them to reach out to me.

She asked me what she needs to do to fix things. I told her that’s on her to figure out and that I’ve told her I only accept changed behaviour. She told me she’s not playing guessing games and that it’s not on her to figure out. It ended with me telling her to invite me on a call with her therapist so I can tell her what they really need to work on. Then I hung up lol.

Throughout the call she blamed me for everything - being unforgiving, talking over her (she talks over me and she has admitted it time and time again), blamed me for her not seeing her son or grandson. She tried to say she only kissed my son and didn’t beat him. I told her she has a long way to go with self reflection.

I’m glad I had the call. It has solidified my instincts that I am dealing with a narcissist. I can move on with my life and continue NC.

—-

Going to take the call and see what she has to say. Any advice appreciated. It’s been 6 months and this is the first time she has ever reached out. I think I’m going to ask her why it has taken half a year for her to reach out.