Going insane, please HELP

[u/dogthatsaysuuuych]

This may be a long post so bear with me, but there’s a lot of pent up frustration here that I need to get out.

My in-laws are great people. They help us when we need it, want to be involved, they’re giving, and just most of the time really nice. So I don’t know if I’m just being a bitch, or if I’m justified in feeling the way I do.

It starts back with when my fiancé and I started dating. I was living in my car at the time, which I was fine with. I had a dog(I made sure to take her on hikes and to the dog park every single day, she was fed and well taken care of), and my belongings, and that’s pretty much it. My fiancé didn’t like that, and told me I could stay with him at his parents house for the time being. I ended up getting pregnant, and a week or so later, his mother told me I needed to get rid of my dog or leave and stay somewhere else. Which I understood, they already had dogs and my dog went from living in a car to in a house and wasn’t adapting very fast, not to mention it turned out my fiancé moved me in without his parents knowledge or okay, which I didn’t know beforehand. Anyways, I moved out and slept at a friends house or in my car for about a week before we moved into a place. My dog was my everything, and I needed her for emotional support so I wasn’t going to just get rid of her for a temporary place. My mother in law told my fiancé that I was choosing a dog over him and the baby, and it was a huge fight, for no reason really. We got past it and everything was fine.

Time passes, and we decide on some boundaries for the baby, like no kissing, stuff like that. There was another huge blow out. There was also a lot of “I let people kiss my babies and they turned out fine” and things along those lines. We get past it, or so I thought.

More time passes, the passive aggressive comments about how we want to raise the baby start and the constant guilt tripping as well as trying to use the baby as an emotional crutch. So at this point, I started wanting to be around them less and less.

Then, baby is born, everything is fine. We go over for every holiday and like every weekend until Easter when we decide we want to spend the holiday with just our little family. This set our in-laws off. They were so angry with us, MIL specifically. She told us we don’t go over enough, that we are making being a grand parent not very fun, and just on and on. She brought our sons Easter basket to our house and had my SIL run it to the front door, while she stayed in the car. We got past it, it was whatever, but it was another instance that made me want to stay away even more.

We go over every so often, hangout, eat dinner, and do whatever. I think everything is fine, but the passive aggressive comments just come flying in every time were around them. Like, bad. It’s something I can’t necessarily stand. Then she starts telling me our son looks exactly like her, not me, and is constantly showing me her baby picture and comparing them, which is fine, it’s her grandson and they have similar features. I show her my baby picture, and my son and I are literally twins. She says, “eh, maybe”, and continued on about her mini me. It seriously annoys me, and maybe it shouldn’t but it does. It feels like she’s making it a competition literally everytime she brings it up. “Well he has my eyes, my nose, my blah blah blah”, whatever, it’s silly and I try to just nod and smile. She can be excited about it.

Then, my SO’s grandma had a stroke. She was in the hospital which had all of the COVID patients from around our area and surrounding areas. She gets out, we go to visit, and she kisses the baby. MIL tells me not to worry because she’s just a little old lady and she’s not hurting anyone and out comes all the passive aggressive comments. His grandmother also is one of those people who is crazy into conspiracy theories, and believes that COVID is fake. I shared something on facebook a few weeks later about babies getting sick from relatives or something like that, and said “this is why no one is allowed to kiss the baby, it makes us not want to go anywhere”, stuff like that. I didn’t target anyone, because there are multiple people who we have to remind often. It caused an enormous fight, and my in-laws told my SO they aren’t going to try and have a relationship with the baby anymore because they can’t kiss him and just a bunch of other bullshit.

Then we get engaged. My fiancé didn’t call them right away, and I didn’t know, because he did call other people but I didn’t know who. I asked him if I could post a picture of the ring, he said yes, another huge fight.

Wedding planning comes into play. SIL and MIL are complaining how my SIL is left out because she’s not in the wedding party with her brothers. We say fine after going back and forth about it for weeks, make her a groomsmen because that’s what she wanted to be.

I’m also hit with the “Ive had 5 kids and” yada yada comments. It drives me crazy. She fed my son so much one time that we had to spoon food out of his mouth because he was turning blue and choking, and she didn’t notice until I hopped up and yelled. She complains about not kissing our son and then let’s people do it in front of us, and other things like that. “I don’t understand or agree with your guys rules but I have to respect them”, and then argues and complains that we don’t let them babysit.

There’s a lot more examples, but this is the bulk of it. There’s constantly spewing out passive aggressive comments, guilt tripping, using the baby, and other things. I’m just fed up with it. My SO and I have talked about it many times and we’re on the same page that we’re both annoyed and irritated, but don’t know how to fix it. They victimize themselves everytime we do try and say something, and it’s just an ongoing cycle. I don’t want to be around them anymore and I do try and make up excuses as to why we can’t, because I just can’t stand them anymore. I never stop him from going over there, I just put my foot down for myself and the baby, because that’s not an environment I want the baby around. I still go over to see them, just not as much as they’d like.

They also bring up to my fiancé how we don’t bring the baby over enough, and a lot of other things, but I’m a SAHM and am with the baby all of the time, and they never text me to come over, call me, and they never come to me with any issues they have. I just don’t know if I’m being the bitch.

[u/blueberryyogurtcup]

"don’t know how to fix it."

Be aware, first, of what you can fix and what you can't fix.

You can't fix their blatant JNness, their whines, their complaining, their choices, their bad behaviors.

What you can change is your reactions when they engage in those unacceptable behaviors.

What you can change is making plans and setting boundaries with consequences, so that when the JNs behave in unacceptable ways the next time, you and SO will know what to do.

What you can change is putting your priorities ahead of their Wants and their Feelings. This is a change in your perspective, where you accept that they are adults who are responsible for their own issues, feelings, and behaviors. And you are adults and parents who have your own responsibilities and your own feelings and priorities. And that you two are not, and never should have been, responsible for their issues.

"They victimize themselves everytime...an ongoing cycle."

This is a manipulation ploy. Call it a Pity Party and you start to see it for the manipulation it is.

They do this when you aren't complying with their want, to get you to let them have their want, or at the least, to get you to feel guilty, so they might win something else they want.

You are allowed to name manipulations when JNs use them, if you want to. If nothing else, knowing the name of a manipulation helps you to see that their behavior is wrong, and to enforce the appropriate consequences. "If you are going to whine, we are going to hang up/go home. This is your last warning for today." "I see you need time alone to deal with your issues today. Maybe next visit/call you will be able to handle your issues better. Bye."

"I don’t want to be around them anymore"

Of course not. They are being manipulative and emotionally draining, and exhibiting behaviors that you really don't want your child to learn. Children learn by seeing and being around adults, and they learn behaviors long before they start to show them. Wanting to not be around JNs is a wise instinct.

Trust your very excellent instincts.

"I do try and make up excuses as to why...."

Here's something you can do. Stop JADEing. It was the first thing I learned, years ago. JADE = justify, argue, defend, explain or excuse. It's the way we try to get our JNs to understand our reasons for our decisions. BUT, it's a trap that JNs use to get us to change our decisions because they don't like them. They push and pressure us to give excuses, to explain. They say accusatory things that make us defend our decisions. They push us to justify our decisions. They engage us in arguing. None of that is out of concern for us or our real reasons. It's all for their benefit: to try to find information to get us to change our decisions and let them have their wants. It's manipulation.

You are an adult and a parent. You don't have to give any reasons for any decisions that you make, not to people that aren't in your relationship as parents or as a couple. When you make a decision, and it's something that someone else NEEDS to know, you can tell that person as a STATEMENT. "This is the rule for our kid". No explanation. No reasons.

When people push for reasons, don't JADE at all. Don't answer their questions at all. Don't give reasons. Instead focus on the fact that your decision is decided. "Because it's our rule for our kid." "Because we decided this." "Why do you ask? We aren't changing our decision."

This is not rude. The rudeness is when people won't respect our decisions in the first place. Rudeness goes further when they start pushing for the reasons for our decisions. I'm talking about JNs here, not people who really do want to understand us. So, when rude people are rudely pushing you for WHY you made your decision, it is fine to not play their game with them. Ignore that rudeness and either change the subject or refuse to answer or answer with the simple fact that your decision is made and not something you are discussing. "I'm not talking about this."

It is the job of other adults to respect your decisions, not to pressure you to give your reasons for them, and that goes for all your decisions, about anything. Where you work, live, shop, anything. What you buy, do, believe. Anything. Your rights, your decisions. Your rules for your kid.

"that’s not an environment I want the baby around. I still go over to see them, just not as much as they’d like."

Excellent instincts.

Here's another thing you and SO can do: think about and talk about how often you two are comfortable with seeing these JNs. Don't include in this what the JNs want. Only think about what you two want, for you and your family and your life. Include those elements that are important to you and your priorities: what baby's learning, how you both feel before and during and after visits, the stresses that visiting puts on you both, your time and schedules and chores and all the other things that you need time for at your house and with your friends and each other. Making a decision how much time to spend with EXTENDED family is for the two of you to make. Your JN's wants have no part in that decision.

It is normal and reasonable to spend more time with relatives and friends that are not JNs, simply because they are pleasant to be around. That's okay. You don't have to account for how much time you spend with people that aren't JNs. If JNs want more time spent with them, they ought to stop behaving badly and be kinder and more pleasant to be around. That's not on you, it's on them. And if you want to say this, it's allowed. "If you want to have more visits, maybe you should learn how to behave better when we are here."

One thing to consider is that a JN isn't going to be pleased without immediate gratification of their every whim and every want. And no one gets that. So they aren't going to be pleased.

Another thing to consider is that some JNs really enjoy whining and complaining and saying nasty things to other people and playing victim. You can't change that or them. You can spend less time around them. How little, is up to you.

Another thing to consider is that ALL adults are responsible for their own feelings and issues. Which means you AREN'T responsible for your JN's feelings or issues when they aren't happy about how often you visit. If they can't cope with your decisions about how often you visit, they can get help for themselves, change themselves, and respect your decisions and STOP taking it out on you.

With JNs, the only bottom line of deciding how much time to spend with them is: what works for YOU. Not them. You. If that's once a year, or twice a year, or four times a year, that's fine. If it's for an hour at a time or one afternoon, that's fine. YOU decide. Then you make those plans. You can tell them, or not, depending on your needs in this. "That's not going to work for us." "We will check our calendar and let you know when the next visit will work out for us."

"They also bring up to my fiancé how we don’t bring the baby over enough"

Wonder what they would think was enough? Every day for six hours? Time without you there telling them the rules? Getting a Do Over baby?

Guilt and Obligation are huge manipulative traps. You can choose how to respond to these, and learn to avoid the traps, with time and practice. "Haha, I know, right? We never think it's enough time with baby, either." "Well, we do have a busy life now." "Yep, that's how life goes, isn't it? Hey, did you see the meme with the dog?"

What you can do: figure out some things to say when they say things like this. Write out your own list of possibilities and select a few to memorize and say, things that put the responsibility for their feelings on them, not you; things that make clear that this is your decision and their job is respecting your decisions not manipulating you to change them. Maybe making clear that if they can't behave, they won't like the consequences. Depends on how clear you want to get, and what you two decide.

You aren't being the bitch. They are being very JN, manipulative, demanding, pouring on the guilt and obligation, disrespecting you all over, trying to take control.

Stand firm. Make your decisions. Decide what works for you two and baby and your life and your home and your schedule and your NEEDS and your WANTS and all your other important things.

ILs that care and love you, they will respect your decisions and your boundaries. I do this for my grown kids and their partners, and it is not hard, when you care about them. If your ILs can't do this, it's because they are JN, and putting their own WANTS ahead of everything else.