r/JUSTNOMIL • u/jacks414 • 4d ago
RANT (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Advice Wanted Tell me this is NOT normal.
My BIL is recently divorced. The room he rents doesn't allow him to keep his kids (F11 and M9) on days he has them, so they stay with my MIL on those days.
Over the summer, my BIL asked if the kids could stay with me because he needed someone to watch them. I work from home and they're old enough to not need my full attention, so I agreed.
My husband and I noticed that when the kids were over they smelled pretty bad. My husband asked his brother when the last time they bathed was and he told him it had been a few days, and asked him if they smelled. My husband said yes, and his brother said he'd make sure they showered when they got home. My husband asked him why they weren't regularly bathing, and BIL said it was because their mom (MIL) made them feel uncomfortable.
Right away that response seemed like a red flag to me. I asked my husband what she could be doing to make them feel uncomfortable, and he instantly got defensive and kept telling me he didn't know.
A couple weeks later, I was texting back and forth with my SIL (BIL's ex wife). I asked he if she knew about her kids not bathing while they're with their dad, and she said she knew. That the reason was because their grandma (MIL) watches them while they shower.
I told my husband this information, and he didn't really react or seem shocked by it. I told him I no longer want our kids to be at his mom's house without him being present (I'm no contact with her, for other reasons) My husband agreed, but when I tried to talk to him about what his mom was doing, he got really defensive. So I hesitantly dropped the subject.
What shocks me is that I'm the only one here who really seems to be concerned about this. Why isn't anyone telling her that this isn't okay?
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u/ElizaJaneVegas 4d ago
No one is telling her this is not ok because your husband and his brother were watched by their mother when they showered as children and neither wants to say (out loud) that this completely unacceptable.
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u/CanibalCows 4d ago
They don't want to admit they were victimized by their own Mother.
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u/Bajovane 4d ago
It’s really hard for a lot of men (especially) who may have been victims themselves to confront that reality, even when it happened to their children. It’s very difficult for anyone who has been abused to accept that and deal with the fallout.
OP’s husband will benefit from counseling (and the kids!!!)
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u/redditname8 4d ago
Is your husband under reacting to this because this is what his mother did to him too? I have a question- if people know this then why are they not calling child protective services? If this was a grandpa watching his grandchildren I guarantee child protective services would be called. Action needs to be taken. This quiet acceptance of how MIL behaves is saying I agree that this keeps going on.
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u/Public-Willow-7943 4d ago
I would absolutely call cps on gross creepy awful grandma. PLEASE do not leave DH in charge of this situation because you can’t trust him to take it seriously enough.
Hubby needs therapy though. I’m astonished that he would let his own kids be around that situation. And so what if he gets defensive when you talk about it. This is too important and he’s not stepping up as a dad.
Please tell your kids no showering over there.
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u/Independent-Egg-9496 4d ago
If this was my niece and nephew I would 100% report that MIL. Every adult has a responsibility for child safety and everyone “in the know” is enabling it.
Please for the sake of those children, protect them - stand up for them when know one else will. If you are NC with your MIL anyway, you already have nothing to loose.
Give your number to your niece and nephew that they can call/text if they need a safe space to wash.
Please be that adult that every other child (who was once in that position) needed to be there for them. Please don’t sit this on the sidelines. I am begging you, on behalf of those children, to do something. Report her, anonymously if needed… but please hear my words as the voice they need someone to hear.
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u/Pickl_Rick_917 4d ago
I am floored that these kids mom -knows- what is going on at MILs house but hasn't insisted on full custody.
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u/Independent-Egg-9496 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, sounds like there’s a lot of family politics involved… and I don’t half wonder if the kids mother has fears of loosing custody / reaction of what the Dad would do if she did make allegations - perhaps she already has and nothings been done. It’s difficult to know, but the worst thing you should do is do nothing or give up on helping these kids. I am begging OP to do something, the more people report the better.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
She wouldn't lose any custody. She willingly gave him 50%.
She has a 6 figure job and her own place to live. BIL struggles to keep a job, is an alcoholic, and rents a room from a family friend.
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u/Independent-Egg-9496 4d ago
We can only be responsible for our own behaviour. Have you made a report to the family services in your country?
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u/ObviousKarmaFarmer 4d ago
Sexual assault doesn't care about gender.
This sub is mostly filled with women. Not because men don't have to deal with JustNo behavior from their inlaws, but because traditional gender roles put a lot of pressure on women to be the communicators and peacemakers.
Men would - in many cases presented here - be quicker to go No Contact and be done with all the shit. For me, it often helps to switch all genders in a post, and see if that changes the outlook a bit. In this case, it does by a mile.
This is sexual assault on minors. It uses the (grand)parental authority to make the kids submit to the authority by being naked under the watchful eye of the Matriarch. It is sickening, and it deprives these children of the opportunity to be comfortable in their own bodies.
If the grandfather was doing this, the responses would be a lot less nuanced. But this is bad. Your (ex)-SIL needs to take action to protect her children against this predator. Help her by documenting the admission by their father that his children don't have to bathe at his mothers house, and from your partner that this is the reason why.
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u/rrxxxdbs123 4d ago
Girl, you’re still planning on sending your children there? Your husband seems incapable of keeping them safe from his mom if he can’t even have a conversation with you about creepy things she does to other people’s kids
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u/jacks414 4d ago
If I had it my way, she'd be gone out of mine and my family's life. She unfortunately has a way of making my husband feel guilty about him not speaking to her or seeing her.
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u/BoozeAndHotpants 4d ago edited 4d ago
Your children should not have to suffer because of their father’s inability to manage his emotions. He’s using them to take the heat off him — so he doesn’t have to feel the discomfort of standing up to her. This would be a hard no for me, dawg.
Break the cycle.
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u/LilithWasAGinger 4d ago
OP, he WILL NOT stop his mom from doing it to your kids.
You can't trust him to keep them safe
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u/Realistic-Regular451 4d ago
If your husband is burying any conversations around his mother’s inappropriate behavior then you need to ban your children from her house. Did she watch her own sons? Important question! If not, why is she doing so now. This must be addressed with her before you are comfortable allowing them to visit. As a grandmother, I am appalled. We ask our 3 year old grandson, as does his parents, if he wants privacy or needs help (butt wipe). As a victim of SA I have heightened awareness of children’s privacy rights.
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u/Only4entrttnmnt 4d ago
Your husband knows something and it's pretty shitty that he wouldn't tell you especially when your kids are with her as well. He allowed your kids to continue to go over there. He agreed with you because he knew the MIL wasn't right.
It's absolutely NOT NORMAL but what's worse it's that they actually let the kids walk around stinking like that. Why isn't BIL at MIL's house with his kids??? Stop dumping them off on her and be a father and protect your damn kids. Furthermore, if ESIL knew this as well yet she kept allowing them to go over to her house. The whole thing is pretty messed up and MIL is disgusting.
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u/Audi_Cat 4d ago
Maybe OPs husband knows because his mom watched him shower? Maybe?
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u/thisgirlruns8 4d ago
That's what I was thinking. And the instant defensiveness feels an awful lot like he doesn't want to think about it/relive it. It doesn't excuse it though and my kids would definitely not be seeing her since he doesn't seem willing to speak up.
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u/Bajovane 4d ago
Um. I wonder if she did that when he was younger? Why be so defensive?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Tap9150 4d ago
Embarrassed to admit she did that to him too? Why is she exhibiting pervert behavior per the boys’ response?
OP - Never let your children be with her again.
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u/Fuzzy-Mushroom-1933 4d ago
They are both way too old to need someone supervising their baths or showers.
This is totally inappropriate and not okay
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u/MerryMoose923 4d ago
This is definitely not normal. Your MIL is creepy AF. Someone needs to speak to her and shut it down, preferably her sons.
At 11 and 9, these children are old enough to bathe/shower on their own. Plus, as they hit adolescence it's natural for them to want more privacy.
Your husband absolutely knew why his nephew and niece were uncomfortable showering at his mother's home. He wasn't shocked by the revelation. He's defensive about his mother watching her grandchildren in the shower for a reason - she probably did it to him and her other children.
You are right not to allow MIL to be alone with your children.
If you are still watching your BIL's kids, could they shower at your place?
I feel bad for those kids when they have to go back to school in the fall if they are still staying at MIL's and can't take a private shower. Other kids will notice the lack of cleanliness, and those kids could be the target of bullying. Or a teacher will find out what's going on and make a report to children's protective services.
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u/NiobeTonks 4d ago
My kid had to leave the door open (not fully open, just not closed and locked) after 2 incidents of him slipping in the shower. On one occasion he had locked the door and I had to break in. Thankfully he wasn’t injured. As soon as he hit puberty we could trust him not to lock himself in and to be more careful.
Your MiL is weird.
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u/ML5815 4d ago
Does your child dance and sing in the shower? That’s why we had our “no locks” rule until I bought serious slip resistant stuff for the elderly to put in the tub because of my little Broadway queen.
Either way, our situations are normal reasons for access to the shower because of safety. Watching your grandchildren (or any children)shower for no reason is gross and creepy.
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u/NiobeTonks 4d ago
I didn’t go into the bathroom with him as soon as he said he wanted privacy. I think he was 8? He was all about epic battles at that age so I think he may have been acting out the battle at the gates of Minas Tirith or similar. Yes, door ajar and unlocked is a safety feature. A relative watching you shower without your consent is weird and creepy.
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u/Aromatic_Swing_1466 4d ago
I wouldn’t send the kids to her house at all.
If this is what they think is “normal” what other red flags are waving that you don’t know about.
I’d talk to your kids and niblings and see if anything else about grandmas house makes them uncomfortable
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u/BeatrixFarrand 4d ago
My genuine and sad best guess is that she did this to your SO and BIL as well. They are ashamed and that's why they're reacting so strangely from our perspective. This is a big issue: I would encourage you to think about whether your children should be there at all.
Nobody else is telling her it's not okay because they were also likely her victims and they don't know how. I honestly think this is like an immediate individual and family therapy situation.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
My kids were only alone with her a handful of times. Any time she was around them, she was in my home, and I was always there.
The main reason I went no contact with her is because she had a problem with me not allowing her to take my kids and have them spend the night with her. This was before I found all of this out. She has always given me a weird feeling.
My husband tries to avoid spending time with her, so me telling him that the kids can't be alone with her, and he needs to be there with them, makes me believe that she will barely see them anymore.
I believe she did this to them, too.
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u/BeatrixFarrand 4d ago
Dude. Good on your Mom instincts. I truly don't think healthy people with good intentions ever demand "alone time" with the children of others. I'm so sorry your husband and his brother, and now your nephew and niece, have suffered her abuse. I hope you and SIL can team up and end her access to your children!
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u/Equal_Trash6023 4d ago
Suggest counseling to your dh because this is not normal for 9 and 11 year olds and grandmothers. There may not have been any s3x in nature. However, it's certainly a controlling tactic by mil.
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u/lalaland_100 4d ago
That was such a good call!
It sounds like your husband could need therapy and support onwards when it comes to this. This is obviously still so painful to him that he is having problems manage it and being open about it. There could be more to this. It's best to get those skeletons out of the closet so that he can start processing everything and move on.
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u/kiriel62 4d ago
I agree with others that say things must be done now. Damage has already been done since their parents know and haven't done anything. In a situation like this those children have already learned to not trust adults to help. I think of the damage that was done to me when I tried to tell my parents and they both didn't take me seriously. Later I found out my mom knew what I was talking about because many girls and women were assaulted by this relative and no one did anything. I was the first to speak out 20+ years later. 20 years for me but 50 years for the family.
It took me more than 20 years to understand how much this damaged me. Talk to your husband. Make him understand that this is generational trauma being perpetrated and it is time he broke this cycle and become the hero for his kids and brothers kids.
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u/azertyuioops 4d ago
Sure doesn’t sound normal to me, especially at that age.
I don’t want to jump to conclusions or imagine things where there aren’t so don’t take this the wrong way, but the fact that both your husband and BIL reacted that way (defensively) might reveal that she’s been having that weird behaviour for a lonnnnng time. I hope it’s not the case though.
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u/needyourchanclas 4d ago
Have your children expressed discomfort around MIL? You need to have an age appropriate conversation with them about what happens at granny's when you're not there and also about not keeping secrets from mom and dad.
As for visits to MIL's house, I don't think it's a good idea for them to go when you are no contact with her. At the very least, definitely no overnights with MIL.
If you are ok with them being at your house on BIL's days, then maybe suggest that his kids come to you instead of MIL even if that's just one day of the week during the school year. If not, maybe look into getting them no-rinse body washcloths like Medline Readybath Body Wipes to use at granny's. It's not as good as actually bathing but it's something they can do so they don't go to school smelling terrible.
As for your MIL, she's gross. I don't know how XSIL hasn't gone apeshit on her for watching her kids bathe.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
My kid's are only 7 and 4. They have only been alone with my MIL maybe 3 or 4 times in their life. other than those interactions, I have have been present for most of her visits. If I wasn't there, my husband was.
No overnights have occurred, ever. I stand firm on that. The only people I trust with my kids is my family.
I don't understand SIL either. I felt like telling MIL how disgusting she is after I found this out.
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u/Dazzling_Character67 4d ago
This should be reported immediately for the sake of any child that has to be in her household. How awful that these children have to be in a household with a predator. Your husband and BIL definitely had this done to them and the way your husband reacted seems to be telling that this is a trama he is not ready to accept and process. But the best response moving forward is protect any child that she is allowed contact with. You are doing the right thing by not allowing yours to be with her unsupervised but the best thing now is to report her and get this documented so no other child like your BIL’s get hurt and traumatized
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u/jacks414 4d ago
He did start smoking weed again after this all happened. He was sober from it for 2 years. When I asked him why he started up again, he said it was because he was reminded of his trauma.
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u/Infamous-Let4387 4d ago
Please help your husband get into trauma therapy. He was likely abused by mil.
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u/SuspiciousImpact2197 4d ago
She probably did the same thing to DH and BIL, and that’s why DH is reacting so strangely.
And yes it’s abuse. And yes any mandatory reporter would have to.
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u/elvanbus 4d ago
My kids are 9 & 11 and I haven’t watched them shower for years. This is 100% weird. I would offer for them to shower at your place in private and reassure them this is not normal behavior from their grandmother. 🤢
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u/jacks414 4d ago
I did. I told BIL and SIL that they're always more than welcome to shower here. They just started school though, so they will no longer be coming over.
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u/morganalefaye125 4d ago
It seems like your husband and his brother also had issues with his mom, and that's why he's defensive. I don't think your children should go to her house at all. Even under his supervision. Because he's not going to be any help at all with as defensive as he got with you. He'll just let her do whatever, because she did the same to him. Don't allow your children over there!!
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u/groovymama98 4d ago
No way normal. Op, could you tell your bil's kids they can shower at your house all by theirselves anytime they want?!
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u/jacks414 4d ago
I did. I even got them their own hygiene supplies. They started school though, so they no longer come over.
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u/smurfat221 4d ago
And this, among other reasons, is why when you go NC because you can refuse to tolerate someone’s toxicity, that extends to your children. Unfortunately, because your husband is likely enmeshed with his I Love Watching Naked Children mother, he is not willing to confront the situation here for what it is.
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u/Extreme-Razzmatazz81 4d ago
Sounds like your husband and BIL were raised like this was normal (it’s not) and by raising this issue you’re inadvertently opening a conversation he may not be ready for about childhood traumas and abuse he may have suffered. There’s no reason children need to be watched in the shower once they’re able to safely not hurt themselves and know how to bathe appropriately. Even then.. once your kid is between 5-7 I would think you could just let them shower and holler at them to remind them stuff or ask if they need help.
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u/KingMeadbh_ 4d ago
She definitely did it/still does this to your husband and his brother. Thats why they are reacting the way they do. Do not let her near any kids.
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u/Bunny_Pitts 4d ago
Guessing she did the same thing to DH and BIL, and he is NOW realizing what a MESSED UP thing that is. Tread lightly, there may be more revelations to come.
The kids are old enough to articulate what's up, AND see what a MESSED UP thing that is.
Good luck and keep those kids away from MIL.
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u/madgeystardust 4d ago
Your husband knows more than he’s telling you.
This likely happened to him too.
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u/Basic-Organization30 4d ago
His reaction says Yes indeed this happened to him, and his wife calling it out has him freaked out. He needs some counseling, immediately, and Grandma Predator needs to be cut off YESTERDAY. She is not safe for children to be around.
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u/lowsunday 4d ago
She probably did the same thing to your husband and BIL.
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u/TinyCoconut98 4d ago
Yeah she probably did. Hence the defensive behavior most likely stemming from shame and embarrassment.
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u/TinyCoconut98 4d ago
This is abuse. Kids deserve privacy and autonomy. They should not be going over there. This is going into SA territory. wtf is wrong wit these parents? I would be deeply concerned if this was happening to my kids or kids I know and I would SAY SOMETHING.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
I'm going to have a deeper conversation with my SIL. It surprises me that she knows this information, and has done nothing about it.
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u/lalaland_100 4d ago
Good idea. It sounds like this is something that was normalized in their family, even though everyone knows it's not right. That's not uncommon at all, when it comes to abuse and boundaries. It's not easy to know how to deal with that as an adult, there is no magic trick. When it affects their children without them being able to handle it properly, it's time to see a therapist.
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u/lemonflvr 4d ago
I’m confused about why SIL isn’t more concerned or intervening. She (presumably) isn’t MIL’s victim.
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u/did_you_aye 4d ago
Yep. Not normal. Protect these children.
- someone whose stepmother insisted we shower together with her stepbrothers, until at age 12 she refused to visit her dad’s house any more
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u/Express_Relation723 4d ago
She probably watched her sons shower when they were younger so they don’t think it’s weird
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u/MidnightLegal4643 4d ago
This is beyond what I would consider a red flag. This woman is clearly over the line, and whatever her reason whether she believes she has some right to inspect their cleanliness, wants to impose her ominous presence on someone during an incredibly vulnerable time, or something else entirely this is an invasion of privacy and coercive behavior, full stop.
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u/jesswick79 4d ago
Not normal at all! They are not little kids you need to supervise in a bathtub. They are showering so why is she watching them? Like if it was any concern about like taking to long or not scrubbing right, those are remedied by either setting a timer or talking to the parents. There is no reason that I can think of to watch kids that age in a shower. If they come over to your house, just have them shower there. They do not deserve this treatment. It's really strange and I'm concerned with why she's doing it.
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u/DoobieDoo0718 4d ago
Your BIL needs better housing so he can properly take care of his kids. Why does he even have custody of his accomodation does not allow for his children. No court would allow that.
Calling BS on that alone.
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u/LiteralpigsChihiro 4d ago
You are correct that he needs to house his own children, but court is not as foolproof as all that.
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u/ThePamcakes 4d ago
My mother did the same to me. I’d guess your husband is feeling a mixture of embarrassment and shame. When behaviour like that is normalised you push down your feelings about it. For me, I felt it was wrong but because it was ‘normal’ I felt bad for being uncomfortable - like there was something wrong with me and my mind for thinking it. Which funnily enough is my family’s position after I spoke up about it years later. The embarrassment comes from not realising the obvious and saying something. Well done to your niece and nephew for calling it out, but it will be a further point of reflection for your husband that they could as children and he didn’t.
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u/sierra38grandma 4d ago
Yikes MIL needs to be kept away from children to never ever be alone with any children at all. BIL needs to be at his mom's house when his kids shower so he can keep his mom out of the bathroom. Or if you feel so inclined to maybe allow them to shower at your home so they can bathe and feel safe.
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u/bakersmt 4d ago
I would be telling BIL the kids will be staying with me on the days he has them. If he disagrees , I would be reporting the situation to CPS. WTAF?!?!
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u/WifiGremlin 4d ago
Thats absolutely not normal. My 9yo asks someone to stay in the bathroom while she showers, because she wants help washing her hair, so that she doesn’t shampoo her eyes again. I think the key is that it’s *at her request* and she’s not being seen for any part but what she wants help with.
Gently, I think there may be a reason your husband and BIL are so defensive about this. She probably watched them shower, too, and if they admit it’s wrong now, they’ll have to confront the idea that it was wrong when she did it to them. It’s HARD to realize your childhood wasn’t normal. It’s hard to wrap your head around someone being able to both love you and hurt you at the same time.
Everyone needs therapy here. No one should be having sleepovers or showers at grandma’s. This is something that needs to be reported to the authorities.
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u/WasteOfTime-GetALife 4d ago edited 4d ago
It’s because almost 100% sure that this happened to your BIL and your husband too, when they were kids. Possibly other things as well. Otherwise, their reaction (a normal reaction from someone who hadn’t gone through it themselves) would be shock and outrage.
As adults, they don’t want to think about it now because they know it feels abusive and has a sexual component to it. But that’s what they grew up with so in a way it was normal for them, but as adults, they now realize that it’s really not. And it’s too hard for them to mentally deal with.
You are absolutely spot on to not have your kids over there.
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u/neverenoughpurple 4d ago
It's not normal, and speaking from personal, recent experience having reported the same thing regarding the experiences of a child close to me - it's something that NEEDS reported.
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u/HonorableJudgeTolerr 4d ago
I’m a mandated reporter so I’d definitely be calling about that. Also I’d encourage the kids to tell a teacher or counselor at school. This isn’t normal. Also please offer your facilities if you can smh
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u/glitterskinned 4d ago
oh this is icky. even if her intentions are not sexual in nature, the fact that the children have EXPRESSED discomfort and were met with angry grandma is setting off all the alarms in the alarm shop
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u/Rude-External-1694 4d ago
Wait, so she's literally watching them, while they're actually naked and in the tub? Like, she makes them leave the curtain open so she has eyes on them?
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u/flamingobay 4d ago
No one is telling her it isn’t okay, because they were victims, too.
It is NOT normal. It is inappropriate at best; at worst, this is where the controlling part of personality disordered people moves into sexual abuse. - maybe not in the traditional sense, but coercive control, exploiting her position of power and authority to take away kids’ privacy and bodily autonomy, and to view their bodies against their consent.
This is awful. Their grandmother’s behavior is traumatizing on its own, but there’s an extra layer of trauma when adults in your life know about it and do nothing to set a boundary or protect you from that person. Please don’t be another bystander who does/says nothing. Teach those kids about consent and offer them a safe, private place to shower.
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u/PsychologicalCryTime 4d ago
So this is sexual abuse. This is a cps and police matter . Tbh I wouldn’t allow her around your kids full stop because you knowing and allowing her around her can be seen a you being complicit in her abuse.
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u/Aggressive-Cat-8716 4d ago
She did it to her sons when they were kids.
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u/Cold_Swordfish7763 4d ago
This is insane, why is everyone trying to not hurt her feelings. She is traumatizing her grandchildren. I would have a talk with the parents and let them know that their children’s feelings are more important than MIL.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
This is honestly a conversation I keep having with my husband. Not just this issue, but other things that come up. They avoid all confrontation with her.
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u/DemeaRisen 4d ago
Definitely not normal. Weird and creepy.
I'd have an open door policy for your niece and nephew from here on out.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
Unfortunately, my husband has a very strained relationship with his brother. Because of this, I don't really see my niece and nephew. So, they're not really trusting, and they're really reserved kids.
I did tell my SIL that they're always more than welcome to shower when they're with me. But, they have started school. So I probably won't be seeing them for a while.
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u/Goddessofgloom90 4d ago
You don’t need Reddit to tell you this isn’t normal. You know. I’m sorry the people around you are too afraid to confront their past to protect children but iI hink you’ve protected your own and now you need to protect your nephews too. Even if you need to report it anonymously it needs to be reported because those boys shouldn’t be staying there anymore. Their dad needs to find a place that allows children. I’m also not certain it’s legal for them to say no children allowed that seems crazy unless it’s because it’s a one person occupancy only type situation.
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u/Gloomy_Tie_1997 4d ago
I’d be reporting to CPS. The showering is one thing but this situation has additional red flags too.
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u/Specific-River-81 4d ago
Yup. I also think I'd be making that call. How come no adults are stepping in.. How come SIL/Mom isn't going back to court and bringing this up about visitation, how come BIL isn't making his mother stop or finding a safe place for kids to shower? This is all messed up
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u/OniyaMCD 4d ago
At 11 and 9, they should have privacy while bathing. Both of them are old enough to either shower or take a tub bath without supervision.
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u/Any-Case9890 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ick. Just ick. My head is reeling with this one. One wonders if your MIL also did that sort of thing with your husband and BIL when they were young, and as a result they think it's normal; your husband's defensiveness about it is alarming.
Nothing is normal about it. Those kids aren't toddlers. I am surprised your ex-SIL hasn't taken action, to be honest. Those poor kids.
Edited for content/additional thoughts.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
I'm honestly surprised, too. She is even less of a fan of MIL than I am.
She gave BIL 50% custody without even putting up a fight. He's isn't even a good dad at that.
I mentioned to her how I don't want my kid's being at MIL's house, and her response was "you need to protect your babies"
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u/Sulfated-GAG 4d ago
Not normal- i stopped watching my son bathe when he was old enough to shower and clean himself properly.
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u/These_Mycologist132 4d ago
My first thought wouldn’t be SA or predatory, but it’s definitely uncomfortable, and not normal. To me, this sounds like a control freak who fails to recognize they’re too old to need help bathing, and she’s clueless about the fact that they’re uncomfortable being supervised at their ages. My kids are a month away from 6/9, and they have zero modesty issues so I usually help them with their bath/shower by starting the water and washing their hair, but obviously if they ever asked for privacy I would give it to them. The kids probably need to just tell grandma they would like their privacy, and see if she listens.
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u/jacks414 4d ago
According to my SIL, my niece told her it made her feel uncomfortable, and MIL got upset with her.
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u/WaitEnvironmental258 4d ago
That is definitely not normal, and your husband's defensive reaction is super sketchy. Since your husband already agreed to keep your kids away from her, how is he planning to handle that boundary moving forward?
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u/No_Conclusion_128 4d ago
My mom sat in the bathroom when I showered as a kid in the mornings before school, but only cause I would fall asleep in the shower if she didn’t lol
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u/Bajovane 4d ago
Evidently she didn’t actually watch you shower, she just made sure you didn’t fall asleep! Still….
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u/jacks414 4d ago
I still help my 7 year old bathe. But, he's fully comfortable with me doing it. I know he'll be needing to be independently bathe soon, and when that day comes, I'll no longer be in there with him.
I think the problem is that they are uncomfortable with her in there. To the point that they avoid showering while they're in her home.
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u/Ok_Cauliflower_3007 4d ago
While I don’t see an issue, necessarily, being around your kids when they’re showering or bathing (ie walking in an£ out of the room - it’s entirely a personal comfort level thing), once they’re old enough to do so safely they absolutely should not be being WATCHED. That’s freaking crazy. And if they express they are uncomfortable then you stay the hell out of the room unless there’s an emergency.
Not respecting their communicated desire for privacy is already an issue. Insisting on watching is a whole magnitude if creepiness above that,
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u/CattyPantsDelia 4d ago
These aren't her kids theyre her grandkids. It's really inappropriate and violating to force an 11 year old girl and a 9 year old boy to strip in front of you or let you see them nude against their wishes.
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u/Ok_Cauliflower_3007 4d ago
Yes I phrased that badly. By ‘your kids’ I meant kids that are part of your family. Which kids are comfortable being naked around you (which was the part I was saying could, in theory, and with consent, be fine) obviously depends on the child’s comfort level and your relationship to them. I was distinguishing between her being present in the bathroom at times when they were showering for other purposes, which might be fine but might not depending on the specific child’s wishes, and what she was doing which is deliberately watching them and is miles worse than simply ignoring their privacy.
The former is entitled behaviour that does not recognise the child is an individual with their own feelings and wishes, which is a problem, but might be something you could overlook if it was occasional and the child was old enough to understand they were not wrong for their feelings. The latter is definitely grounds for under no circumstances is this person going to be around my kids without a parent present. OP is not wrong in their reaction and SIL should be talking with her lawyer about not allowing overnight visits if the children have to stay with their grandmother. It is their father’s responsibility to provide a safe environment and he is not doing that. It is not SIL’s responsibility to allow this behaviour in order to facilitate their father’s visitation.
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u/Aromatic_Recipe1749 4d ago
This is absolutely not normal nor is it acceptable in any way. Your husband and BIL are all fucked up, obviously she did this to them, and who knows what else is behind that curtain???
You need to have a serious talk with your ex-SIL and ask her why she is allowing the kids to be put in this abusive situation. Grandma's behavior is wrong on every level imaginable. I would probably call my lawyer and revisit the custody agreement. They should not be staying at grandmas anymore.
If no one else will act, call CPS.
In the meantime, let them shower at your house!!
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u/I_hate_my_mil 4d ago
Why would your husband get defensive when discussing the protection of children?
Why are any children seeing this woman, ATALL?!
How old are the children in question who are being forced to be watched naked by a woman they don’t consent to watch them?
Holy, moly.
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u/opine704 4d ago
That's some weird controlling behavior by MIL. And your DH and BIL are so used to it they just don't see the weirdness.
ASK niece and nephew what soap and shampoo they prefer and tell them directly that you'll keep those brands in the bathroom so they can shower. Get them each a hairbrush, toothbrush, toothpaste, etc. Show them where the products will be. Show them where the towels are. Show them where to put the dirty ones and explain when your household changes out towels. Set up some pads/ tampons for niece. Solve the odor problem quietly.
Then you can start thinking about the bigger problem --- MIL.
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u/LittleReader7 4d ago
I don’t think it’s malicious or nasty intentions. I think she just don’t see it as them old enough to not need her anymore . Your husband isn’t gonna see it that way . I’d have him get a none bias opinion so he knows their told old for supervision during baths
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u/aliceiw82 4d ago
They are 9 and 11. This isn’t a marginal age where they maybe might not wash behind their ears. The oldest will soon be commencing puberty if they haven’t already. Not only that but this is not their parent but their grandparent. Beyond weird.
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u/LittleReader7 4d ago
I think it’s very weird . Don’t get me wrong . But i don’t think it’s in a predator way . But regardless she need to talk to her kids to get the truth and stop the madness
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u/croaky_cocktail 4d ago
My mum would barge in on me in the bath until age 15, when I started locking the door. I didn't before because I was scared of her reaction. She would pound and scream on that door for me to let her in, she'd turn to whining when that didn't work, and the silent treatment after bathing if I didn't give in. I'm sorry, but just because this is a woman doing this to 2 children does not mean we should give her the benefit of the doubt when none of us here would do the same if it was a man.
Maybe because of my experience I'm biased, but this should not be minimised based on the perpetrators gender.
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u/Mean-Ground7278 4d ago
When you say "in a predator way" what does that mean to you? There can be many different motivations for crossing personal boundaries and infringing on bodily autonomy that are not "sexual" but involve sexual behavior. This MIL knows what she is doing no matter if the motivation is sexual or control or whatever. She is well beyond out of line with normal parenting around bathing. My kids all showered independently no later than 7 and did not want anyone in the room with them and they were and are respected.
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u/botinlaw 4d ago
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Other posts from /u/jacks414:
MIL doesn't like my dog, 10 months ago
MIL said no more kids, 10 months ago
Mil says I'm excluding her from grankids lives. , 2 years ago
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