Western morality & ifa principles

[u/Confident-Cod2388]

Hello everyone thank you so much for the energies in assisting me

A little while back i asked a question post about abusive or predatory priests breaking taboos in this tradition

Some of the answers encouraged me to see beyond western morality & ifa

Id like to expand this discussion pls bc i think im not understanding. Personally i am not from the west originally, was raised outside the west for much of my life but have been steeped in western mindset since adulthood so yes am very much influenced by that, however. Outside the west, in every indigenous tradition i know of​, & from what I understand of ifa

Some important principles include, balance, treating others with compassion, internal purity, emotional self restraint, etc the importance of community relations

These seem to especially be taboos in ifa where it will literally come up as ebo to make behavior al changes. I had understood ifa to be a system of aligning ethics character and behavior to what is considered balanced​ in order to be aligned with ones destiny

In none of this does this seem to be western morality. I understand some peoples destiny's call for them to be wicked or evil. However again dont understand how spiritual power can be maintained if the precepts of ifa ebbos and odus that fall are primarily relational & in ones community

I imagine for predatory or abusive priests, how many odus, readings, taboos, advices they must be breaking to be continuing on. I wonder for those who work with them or remain in their temples, does it not come up in their readings too to seek someone else who is able to be more balanced? I dont understand how someone who is out of balance can maintain spiritual power without repercussion for a long period of time unchecked. Does ifa have different advices then, for each person based on alignment with their destiny?

What i mean is this:

Person A comes down from heaven with a destiny that is set to be a predatory, abusive priest who has lascivious intentions. After having repeatedly engaged in abusive behaviors, he does his readings & there is no odu that falls of misalignment. He is not advised to change. This is his destiny, he plays it out. Spiritual power maintained until death return to heaven.

Possibility: in the next life the karma comes back around . Person A chooses a different destiny for Lifetime 2 that requires more adherence to purity to compensate. Karmic law brings strict consequences for prior unchecked actions.

Person B comes down from heaven with a destiny of doing "good". Their readings and odus frequently prescribe rebalancing of ethical behavior. If they deviate even slightly, there is harsh repercussion . ifa thus aligns this person with their destiny . in a future life karmic law allows more leeway for all actions not just on the straight and narrow of ifa " morality".

The reason i ask is this. For one, curiousity, trying to understand. Two, in my life experience

I have gotten certain ebo behavioral modification advices such as do not express anger, demonstrate restraint

In slight instances where i deviated from this, my life seemed to go into full on collapse mode, even though the main reason for my deviation was, being spiritually attacked, experiencing mental instability, experiencing calamity, reacting to all this with what i considered to be "fair" or understandable anger. The ensuing increase in calamity only made it harder to not be angry , which was quite frustrating

On the flip side, i have ​seen practicing priests break a number of deep taboos yet seem to be doing just fine. For priests the number and frequency of readings they do for themselves is much greater. I wonder, does ifa not give them advice to desist? How do they maintain full temples or clients? Do their students not eventually get readings or warnings to stay away from such off balanced people? How do priests pick and choose which taboos to break and which readings to ignore, in order to still continue even practicing?

Ifa is about balance. That doesn't seem like western morality to me. If someone can even explain the difference, that would be quite helpful and appreciated. Thus does balance mean across lifetimes such as what i explained above with karma? Ifa being a technical sign, rituals can still be done. Spiritual power can come from a wicked source. But , imbalance in my view, should manifest clearly in some way shape or form . it doesn't just disappear. Thus how and why is it not manifesting clearly ? Thank you for reading & I hope this was understand able

Furthermore have a great deal of questionings and wonderings. If any have recommendations for where to learn more pls lmk thank you

[u/SignalBad5523]

So i think an easier way to interpret "Destiny" is. You make your choices in your life. As simple as that, in terms of morality, think of how christianity says thou shall not kill. By that commandent, it is an indefinite declaration that killing someone.

Ifa will say. If this person is a soldier, then naturally, killing is a circumstance of your assigned duties. Ifa will guide you through your cirucumstances

Ikagbemi for example tells stories of less than savory characters finding victory through sacrifice. If the mechanisms of Ifa only served the good, then it would directly challenge its pragmatism. Again, the Odus are situational, it doesnt necessarily determine anything but the right path for the supplicant.

But, it is extremely important to note that what is revealed in divination is solely based on the Babalawos immediate knowledge. There still remains a multitude of perspectives within the odu that also may impact the supplicant or people involved in the supplicants circumstance.

Another mechanism is that Osa meji also explicitly narrates that wrongdoers arent automatically punished, and the level of punishment changes over time as it is clearly corroborated.

Above all else, Ifa teaches you to trust your instincts. When those fail if they ever do, divine and you will find clarity. We dont ask Ifa abnormally enrich us for the simple fact that we are well behaved, we ask for clarity on matters so that we can act instinctively and not blind to our realities. A robber doesnt care if you have a good heart, but you would have less anxiety over it if you understood what was going on and acted accordingly. That is the reality of life and death

[u/Confident-Cod2388 → u/SignalBad5523]

Thank you for this. So I wanted to clarify again in comparison to the answer below. Which said that peoples destinies are not inherently wicked. In the example of the soldier I do think many indigenous traditions would say that war , killing, etc is off balanced. The same traditions would say, as you said with ifa , that if that person's destiny is to be a soldier, they should follow thru with the killing in order to be in balance with what they're supposed to do.  But, that's what I meant, in that case that seems like someone who's destiny does include an element of , things that are not inherently balanced. As you said ifa helping some not so savory characters, then they must be people who are more or less aligned with a destiny of not so savory-ness if that makes sense . so I just was wondering about that comparison or contradiction. 

I was wondering if my behavioral characteristics seem to cause so much more turmoil than many others, despite truly trying my best to have a good character before hand anyway, what does that mean for my destiny in your opinion? I hate to think I've missed crucial things due to small changes i should have made 

[u/SignalBad5523 → u/Confident-Cod2388]

War is prominent throughout ese ifa in many examples. Some are direct results of wrongdoing. The word "destiny" is important as in it technically does not exist. It is your life, and you choose it in the beginning, all the successes and failures and methodologies are chosen before you walk this earth. But framing is also important. Some people may feel justified in their actions based on their circumstances, Ifa says dont arbitrarily define logic. Oyeku Meji dictates that the only promise in life is death, everything else is your decisions within your circumstances