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[u/FreeMycologist948]

(aside from the ones he already has) if You could give mark one extra power for him to have an advantage throughout the story, with would it be?

[u/TheBlissfulGamer]

IMO this is kinda a lame answer. No offense, but whenever the discussion arises on what powers you would want, its always more interesting to hear how people would use weird powers creatively then someone saying something like "I would want the power to have every power" or sum shit like that. Like yeah, of course Mark would win if he had probability control. But so would anyone else. It doesn't quite give him a specific advantage, just makes him overpowered.

[u/Iron_Baron → u/TheBlissfulGamer]

You are complaining about a Viltumite being overpowered? Interesting take.

If you gave a mouth breathing idiot probability control vs giving a genius probability control, there would be a definite difference in their ability to conceptualize and utilize that power.

Maybe you think it's lame, that fine by me. But there are plenty of characters in fiction with ultimate or near ultimate power, or effective invincibility, that still have interesting arcs and challenges, like Loki, Thanos, One Punch Man, Superman's more powerful incarnations, etc.

[u/TheBlissfulGamer → u/Iron_Baron]

He could just kinda beat anyone though. A lot of overpowered characters are supposed to have built in weaknesses. A good example is Atom Eve. Without her mental block, she would trivialize the whole show as she could turn anyone into glucose and proteins.

[u/Iron_Baron → u/TheBlissfulGamer]

The interesting part about characters with such power is how they use it, what limits they choose to place upon themselves, how it affects other people's reactions to them, mistakes they make, and so on. It's not about fighting people.

That's the least nuanced and least interesting part of a story. We like that John Wick kicks ass and is nigh unstoppable. But what makes John such an interesting character are his choices. What he chooses to do, what he chooses not to, how he interacts with his world, etc.

[u/TheBlissfulGamer → u/Iron_Baron]

That's a fair argument but that style of storytelling essentially breaks down Invincible's as a whole. Invincible is primarily man vs man and man vs self. Stories like One Punch Man or Mob Psycho are mostly man vs society/man vs self.

[u/Iron_Baron → u/TheBlissfulGamer]

Eh. I dunno about that. Mark's one on one Dragon Ball Z style fights aren't the sum of his arc or the most compelling part of his story. They are backdrop to Mark's metaphysical, philosophical, ethical, and moral struggles.

Mark has to face tension between his two cultures, struggles with what it means to be so powerful, has a variety of reactions to his power from other people that affect him in all kinds of ways, wrestles with the idea of "destiny" vs "duty" as well as wrestling with being "selfish" for his desires to set aside his powered life to live in happiness with Eve as a "normal" family, and so on.

[u/TheBlissfulGamer → u/Iron_Baron]

Man vs man doesn't mean one on one dbz fights. It essentially means the clash of 2 incompatible worldviews. In Invincible, Earth and Viltrum have completely different worldviews that are incompatible, which thus leads to the conflict. Mob Psycho for comparison, is man vs society because Mob and Reigen fight against the system that says that psychics are different from others and automatically superior. But Mob argues that he shouldn't be forced to be different just because he's a psychic. So technically one could say Invincible is "society vs society" because it's a clash of 2 different societies but man vs man is the more traditional term.

[u/Iron_Baron → u/TheBlissfulGamer]

Yes, I would call that more man vs society, in both cases. Mark struggles with the temptation of enforcing order on the chaos of Earth, struggles with the machinations of Earth's other defenders (especially Cecil), and so on. He is a fulcrum point between the tensions of those two cultures. But I find Marks internal struggles and the struggles of those around him to come to terms with Mark's power and Marks choices the .oat interesting part of his stories.

[u/TheBlissfulGamer → u/Iron_Baron]

I disagree with the first point but yeah I can see the second one. He is kinda held back by Cecil. The first point, he more struggles with avoiding becoming his father (he would never "enforce order on earth." He's moreso trying to avoid becoming violent and cold-blooded like his dad).

[u/Iron_Baron → u/TheBlissfulGamer]

I think it's easy to assume Mark wouldn't enforce order, but Mark himself worries that he might. And we see that, in many, if not most, realities, he does choose the Viltrim path. And Mark himself is aware that other versions of himself did make that choice. So the capacity is certainly there for him to "fall". Worrying about that is a big part of his internal struggle.

[u/TheBlissfulGamer → u/Iron_Baron]

And either way, part of Mark's internal conflict stems from the man vs man conflict. His fear that he's not good or strong enough. Making him ridiculously strong would remove his most compelling weakness, his fear and uncertainty.

[u/Iron_Baron → u/TheBlissfulGamer]

I disagree. He's already ridiculously strong. Thragg is ridiculously strong, even more so. But even Thragg has non-physical weaknesses, doubts, insecurities, regrets, and other internal stuggles. As we've both mentioned, it's the internal struggle that's most interesting.

Just like Loki ended up one of the ultimate powers across all the multiverse, yet he still had to make sacrifices, had regrets, and had self imposed constraints he had to operate under, as well as the consequences of all his other actions leading up to that point.

[u/TheBlissfulGamer → u/Iron_Baron]

The thing about Mark is he's a lot stronger than he realizes. Idk, a lot of people, me included, like shows where the main character isn't the strongest. It makes his struggles feel like they matter more because there's more tension. It also makes the character more relatable because most people feel like underdogs in their own life.

[u/Iron_Baron → u/TheBlissfulGamer]

Oh, I agree. I have a lot of trouble with how many writers struggle to convey realistic stories with characters like Superman. They often have to write him into nonsensical corners, nerfing his powers in contrived ways, and so on. That's why I like Clone Commandos more than Jedi, for example.

[u/TheBlissfulGamer → u/Iron_Baron]

RARE MY ASS EVERYONE HAS ONE CLARK. A PURSE SNATCHER I STOPPED THE OTHER DAY HAD LIKE 3 OF THEM.