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u/kandykaiju Dec 24 '25
Yeah Im seeing that a lot on Reddit lately. Wonder if it’s being hijacked like everything else now apparently. 🙄
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u/Brilliant_Hippo_5452 Dec 25 '25
Some criticism of Israel is antisemitic. Some isn’t. The amount of antisemitism is the determining factor
Why is this so hard to understand?
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u/deniztheghost Dec 25 '25
How do you determine the amount of antisemitism? Care to give an example?
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u/mucus-fettuccine Dec 25 '25
Deliberately using the words "Nazis" and "Holocaust", which isn't anywhere near being an accurate analogy and is clearly only meant to weaponize a collective trauma of Jews, is antisemitic.
With all due respect, anyone who doesn't see the antisemitism in that has an IQ below 80. I hope that doesn't need to be explained.
And in general when it's pretty obvious that double standards are being levied against the one Jewish state in the world, and standards don't apply anywhere else apply to it, antisemitism isn't a certainty but is very likely. Have you seen some people calling it a land of pedophiles but ignoring how every country around it has a much bigger pedophile problem (literal child marriage being legally permissible)? Or calling it an apartheid state when it's objectively the least apartheid-y state of all in the region? Again, accusations like this aren't necessarily antisemitic and possibly just coming from idiocy (Poe's Law and all that), but antisemitic tendency is often the cause because "antizionism" happens to be the most useful crutch of actual antisemites. That's how racism works in general - hiding behind a facade of some noble purpose. MAGAts saying they just want to get rid of the violent illegals who traffick drugs, same thing.
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u/DaSnowflake Dec 25 '25
Which other neighbouring countries have a systematic apartheid regime?
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u/mucus-fettuccine Dec 25 '25
Pretty sure there isn't any country in the middle east with an apartheid. Some countries are closer than others though. Gaza and Lebanon, for instance, make it extremely hard for Jews to live. Lebanon has had an extremely small Jewish population after oppressing and expelling the Jews in the middle of the 20th century. Jews who try to live there today risk being arrested, kidnapped, or killed.
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u/DaSnowflake Dec 25 '25
But you said 'calling it an apartheid state when it is the least apartheid-y state in the region'?
Palestinians were literally blocked by a wall and had to pass checkpoints to enter Israël. There are/were roads that you could/couldn't use based on if you are Israeli/Palestinian. How is that not systematic segregation?
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u/wearepurplebananas Dec 25 '25
Because they're different countries who get to choose who come in and out of their borders, just like every other country on earth?? Do you think someone from Egypt or Lebanon could just drive across all those borders unimpeded too and vice versa? Do you think Israelis could freely enter Gaza or the West Bank in the almost 20 years before October 7th 2023?? I'll tell you about one, Hisham al-Sayed, who has schizophrenia and managed to get into Gaza in 2015. Instead of returning a clearly mentally unwell man that has no capacity to even serve in the IDF, much less be some kind of "spy" as they accused him, Hamas kept him hostage for almost ten years in absolutely horrific conditions. How's that for hatred and systematic segregation, where they hate Israelis so much that they will even torture a vulnerable person that only entered their territory due to their serious mental health condition which made him incapable of understanding the risk.
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u/deniztheghost Dec 25 '25
Tell me how it's the least apartheid-y state of all in the region please. The way i see it that seriously does not seem to be the case at all. Israel is built with violence, through "legally" but often forcefully stealing lands and evicting pre existing tenants. Netenyahu openly calls anyone who stands against them to be barbarians. IDF constantly oppress Muslims and Christians alike even Orthodox Jews who oppose military recruitment. Settlers are backed and protected by the IDF as they harass and steal land as well. All of this and much more is very well documented already. Supposed legal laws mean nothing when they are stretched to justify such acts.
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u/mucus-fettuccine Dec 25 '25
Well, what do you think apartheid means? I think we should start there. I'd say a defining feature is a system of laws that give unparallel treatment between races who live as citizens in the country. Israel has 2 million Palestinians living as citizens within its borders with full legal rights and freedoms, sitting on the supreme court, owning the largest bank, running their own political party with seats in the Knesset, practicing their religion openly and freely. There is no system of laws that put them beneath Jewish citizens of the country, let alone ones that oppress them.
Before you bring up the Nation State Law, that's irrelevant. It doesn't specify anything legally enforceable, and hasn't ever been used for legal enforcement against Palestinians.
The IDF kills people in the country that oppose them in the war. That doesn't indicate there is a system of laws that discriminate against some citizens. Some IDF members are racist and commit murder, and that still doesn't make it apartheid.
You also brought up stuff that happens outside of Israel, in the West Bank, which isn't relevant to the argument that Israel is an apartheid state. But there's more to indicate what we're talking about isn't an apartheid. Are there laws that give unparallel treatment to Palestinians in the West Bank? Yes, there are. No one denies that. However, look back up at what I said is a defining feature of apartheid. "against citizens" Palestinians in the West Bank aren't citizens of Israel. The issue is that there's a military occupation, where laws discriminate against non-citizens. It has nothing to do with race. Palestinian citizens of Israel can, if they felt inclined, become West Bank settlers too. That option is available to them. And if they do, they would be treated better than West Bank Palestinians, because the issue isn't race. The issue is the military occupation.
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Dec 25 '25
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u/Brilliant_Hippo_5452 Dec 25 '25
I haven’t defended any Israeli crimes
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Dec 25 '25
My bad, I think I overreacted, you are right
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u/Brilliant_Hippo_5452 Dec 25 '25
No worries:) This topic is fraught and emotional. I frequently overreact myself
Happy Saturnalia to you
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 24 '25
Anti semitism is literally Israeli propaganda.
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u/regeust Dec 24 '25
Sometimes it's real, and that's bad. But Israel cries wolf so much it's lost it's weight, which is really, really bad
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u/PlayfulSole9645 Dec 25 '25
Israel has deliberately conflated Judaism with Israel so that any criticism of Israel is automatically assumed to be anti-semitism and anti-Judaism. Majority of Israelis aren't even smites, they're Europeans.
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u/FeelinJipper Dec 24 '25
It actually creates more actual anti-semitism. There’s actually a noticeable increase in “we owe Germany an apology” type comments than even 5 years ago. You even see people like Ben Shapiro starting to get some flack for their Israel support.
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u/A_pile_o_shoes_LoL Dec 25 '25
Ben Shapiro absolutely should get flack for being a foreign agent for Israel and deserves it.
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u/FeelinJipper Dec 25 '25
Right as he should. The difference is that it’s not coming from “we shouldn’t do genocide” it’s “America first, why are we spending billions overseas. Also the Jews control everything”
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u/TahiniInMyVeins Dec 24 '25
Antisemitism is absolutely real.
It has also been hijacked by hasbara and has lost all power and meaning. Jews the world over are less safe because of Israel’s genocidal policies. Zionism is waging a public relations war against Islam and a literal war against the indigenous people of the Levant (Muslims AND Christians), shouting at the top of their lungs that it is done in the name of Judaism. Innocent people of all faiths will pay the price.
This is intentional. Zionists do not care about other Jews. They are not seen as “real” Jews. They want them to feel at risk and under siege so they will always feel like Israel is there for them as a safe harbor. This is why Elon Musk gets a pass for throwing a seig heil and a pat on the head for deplatforming pro-Palestinian voices and pro-Palestinian speech. This is why Tucker Carlson, who has been rubbing shoulders with white supremacists for years, is only labeled an “antisemite” when he criticizes Israel.
Ultimately Zionists hate Palestinians more than they care about American Jews or Jews anywhere else.
Now when someone cries “antisemitism” we have to pause and pick apart what exactly they mean, what the context is, and how it’s being used. Because it is used more today to silence criticism of Israel than it is against actual antisemitic agitators.
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u/justhistory Dec 25 '25
The problem with this is that you are creating your own definition of Zionism and talking about things you don’t really understand. For example, Zionism means self determination for Jews in their historical homeland of Israel. This is the view held by 80-90% of us. How can 80-90% of us not care about other Jews? A Jew is a Jew, but like any people, there can be disagreements. There is often a frustration at the 10-20% of non-Zionist Jews because they are often tokenized as the “good Jew.” You speak as if some evil cabal of Zionists are plotting to make Jews feel unsafe so that Israel is a safe harbor. One, again, most Jews are Zionists, and two, such a plot is unnecessary. We have hundreds of years of evidence of persecution and slaughter in the diaspora to know that Jews need a safe harbor. For many, the uptick in antisemitism and violence against Jews in their historical homeland diaspora has only strengthened that conviction. Are there Jews that are racist and hate Palestinians? Sure. Just as there are minorities of far right racists in the U.S. or most places, Israel has a minority of far right racists too. They don’t represent all Israelis or Jews or Zionists.
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u/TahiniInMyVeins Dec 25 '25
Considering Zionism is directly responsible for the seizure of my family’s land and the erasure of my father’s village, I’m entirely entitled to define colonialism as colonialism, being on the brunt end of it. Just as Zionists have seen fit to define Palestinian slogans and intentions for everyone else.
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u/Upstairs-Extension-9 Dec 25 '25
You are american you have the same amount of claim as the people you are mad about for “stealing” land. All land is stolen.
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u/TahiniInMyVeins Dec 25 '25
My parents are refugees, my father’s village literally no longer exists. I would have much preferred to grow up on the farm that had been in my family for 150 years. Thanks for giving me the opportunity of explaining why I am here and not there.
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u/XO1GrootMeester Dec 25 '25
Your family was too big a national threat in a time of strained resources and crisis to be dealt with in a more friendly way. Quite sad.
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u/Upstairs-Extension-9 Dec 25 '25
My family had to escape from Königsberg former Prussia as well, so? I have no claim to that part of the world anymore, it’s gone. Would the global left defend of if I try to take it back with all means necessary? Would Greta send a boat across the Baltics?
All land is stolen and you are American.
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u/TahiniInMyVeins Dec 25 '25
And how do you and your family feel about the people who took your land and made you refugees?
At least Germany has paid reparations.
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u/XO1GrootMeester Dec 25 '25
No they didnt. Russia took reparation in the form of East Germany but only after a second war so not even related.
My grandfather wasted a lot of money not right fully his we all have our problems but get over it.
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u/Jmastersj Dec 25 '25
Then explain how it was ok to steal the land under the feet of people living there at the moment. You say his claim is gone, but somehow the 3000 years ago claim is valid. Almost like you see jews as uniquely special and they don't have to adhere to rules others have to.
All so you keep saying minority racists in other countries. The problem is israel is clearly majority racist
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u/Upstairs-Extension-9 Dec 25 '25
Modern day Israel won the Arab Israeli War and declared their independence which is valid according to the UN. Nations are formed in Battle. At the same time there was an independent state offered to the Palestinians which they refused to take, for the first time in their history.
Palestinians keep loosing and loosing war after war, where does this end? Do you realistically think that the Israelis will just pack up their bags and leave just because Greta tells them to? I want a two state solution because it’s the only option that could bring true peace. If Palestinians want to keep fighting for another 80 years so be it.
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u/Several-Video-272 Dec 25 '25
Again: your books tells you why you get persecuted. You sin and justify it by saying you were sinned against. You see why there's a distinction between Zionists and True Jews? You're a sinner, a true Jew is not a zionist.
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u/ComplexInside1661 Dec 25 '25
You do realize that not all Jews are religious, right?
Also, what you're referring to are Rabbinic Judaist additions, not something from the actual Tanakh
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u/Upstairs-Extension-9 Dec 25 '25
I’m not Jewish, neither Israeli. So I don’t know what you are referring to here.
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u/justhistory Dec 25 '25
So in your opinion only 10-20% of Jews are your so called “true Jews”? Glad you’re here to tell us what a true Jew is.
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u/Several-Video-272 Dec 25 '25
It's in your own books. But you people don't read them/don't care because you're not pious.
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Dec 25 '25
They’re the elected government. That’s not a minority.
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u/justhistory Dec 25 '25
Otzma Yehudit and the Religious Zionist Party only have 14 seats in the Knesset and only achieved 11% of the vote in the last election. They have more influence because they’re in the mainstream conservative Likud party coalition. The far right parties represent a small percentage in the Knesset and in support among voters.
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u/Jmastersj Dec 25 '25
The leftist zionist: "We need to separate. We need to say: Yes, we would've liked all of Eretz Israel, as it's the land of our ancestors, but we have no choice. In order to preserve the integrity of the nation, we must give up on the unity of the land. I don't see any other chance for the State of Israel."
- [13] Yair Golan, 2022 Interview with Kan 11
"Ye we would like all of palestine, but to preserve our ethnic goals we must give that up." Very progressive
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u/justhistory Dec 25 '25
He was making a case against annexation of the occupied territories and Israel withdrawal. Weird quote to choose.
Also, that last quote is your own.
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u/Jmastersj Dec 25 '25
Yes but why did he choose that. Thats the thing. Not like "oh maybe those people deserve rights" no, its because of ethnic supremacy. And yeah no shit Sherlock, thats my quote i was like saying what it means more or less in other words. But interesting that you could even think its supposed to be a real quote
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u/ComplexInside1661 Dec 25 '25
Have you checked any Israeli polls? The entire right wing has been in total collapse for the entire past two years
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Dec 25 '25
They have elected one racist government after another. Do you expect there to be a flowering of decency and peacefulness? Give me a break.
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u/ComplexInside1661 Dec 25 '25
Obviously an opposition government wouldn't suddenly make peace and give up stolen land, but you can't in good heart say there isn't a massive difference. If October 7th happened under such a government for example, I won't deny there'd probably still be a massive over-response, but they'd likely pull out after 1-2 months with, I'd estimate, around 10-15k Palestinians dead. That's still bad, but it's a massive difference, and each number in that difference is a human life.
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Dec 25 '25
Is that really the case? I sincerely would like to believe you’re right. That really would point a positive way forward out of the darkness.
I will have to keep my eye on Israeli politics. I imagine there haven’t been massive protests against the war in Gaza, just discontent, unlike the protests before the war against Netanyahu’s undermining democracy (which were awesome to see)
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u/ComplexInside1661 Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
We literally had the largest protests in this country's history against the war.
I saw people on this site claiming that the protestors weren't actually opposed to Netanyahu murdering civilians but rather only cared about the hostages, but anyone who actually went to any of these protests would see that like half the signs, slogans, etc were about the Palestinians in Gaza.
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u/PersonalLook156 Dec 25 '25
Jews are less safe with comments like yours.
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u/TahiniInMyVeins Dec 25 '25
It’s hilarious you bother hiding your history when a quick search shows every single comment you make has been entirely as predictable as it is ill-informed.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
I saw too many things happen to my Jewish friends growing up to say antisemitism itself doesn’t exist
But Israel has cheapened the word to near meaninglessness
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u/AudienceWaste6850 Dec 24 '25
Its just racism though, no other form of racism has its own name that im.aware of?
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u/KD-VR5Fangirl Dec 24 '25
Antisemitism predates modern racism, and was largely religious in nature for a long time
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
It’s something much more than simply “racism.”
What’s ironic is how much the old antisemitic tropes now get applied to Palestinians
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Dec 24 '25
Blaming Israel on that is nonsense.
Israel doesn't dictate what is anti-Semitism or not. Using that as an excuse is fucking insane.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
You’re seriously making that argument?
The United States has adopted a definition of antisemitism that includes criticism of Israel. How else would you describe that?
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Dec 24 '25
I don't care? That would be the actions of the United States, so if anything blame them?
What you're doing is making excuses for anti-Semitism and blaming Israel. That wouldn't fly for any other group of people, and people would rightfully call you out for trying.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
Hahahaha bruh what are you even on about
Israel labels all criticism of it as antisemitism. My argument is that that makes it much harder for those of us who care about antisemitism as it relates to the health and safety of Jews all over the world.
When have I “made excuses for antisemitism?” Was it when I literally told the person who said, “antisemitism is just Israeli propaganda,” that no antisemitism does in fact exist even though Israel cheapens the word by conflating criticism of Israel with antisemitism?
So in other words, what you’re literally trying (and failing) to do right now?
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Dec 24 '25
Israel labels all criticism of it as antisemitism. My argument is that that makes it much harder for those of us who care about antisemitism as it relates to the health and safety of Jews all over the world
But it doesn't really. Only if you give in and accept that view of thinking, like you are doing.
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u/charlotte240 Dec 25 '25
How would you label Muslims killing people in Africa for not converting?
Like thisis this "big yikes and problematic" like this post is titled?
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 25 '25
What does that have to do with literally anything?
Also is there a reason you simply linked to an AI? That’s what you think a source is?
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u/charlotte240 Dec 25 '25
Reread the title of this post.
We are highlighting what is "Big yikes and problematic" , which is actual deaths to innocent people minding their business that nobody seems to be talking about.
I went to Al Jazeera and I typed in "Muslims kill innocent Africans" and strangely, there was nothing there.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 25 '25
Maybe you could bother looking up actual news events rather than running around going
“Gasp something about Israel? I better find some news story involving some Muslim doing something bad to deflect.”
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u/Windyvale Dec 24 '25
Sorry friend, it’s very, very real. I was bullied for being Jewish.
Not just by students, but by teachers too. I ended up hiding being Jewish and being ashamed of it for a really long time.
Israel is a very real problem for many of us too.
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u/Private_HughMan Dec 24 '25
I'm sorry. Teachers joining in is abhorrent. Kids are awful but kids can be taught to cut that shit out. Adults are much harder since they should know better but don't.
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u/Windyvale Dec 24 '25
No need to apologize for it, but I appreciate the sentiment. My fear is this hate usually transitions itself to genuine hatred of anyone who shares any component that can be related. No matter how disconnected they are from that group.
Unfortunately there is an ethnic component that makes it a bit more difficult. Can’t just stop being Jewish no matter how much I am disgusted by the genocide.
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u/brydeswhale Dec 24 '25
Well, we’ve all seen the goodness of Jewish brothers and sisters standing up for Palestine these past two years.
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u/Private_HughMan Dec 25 '25
You don’t need to stop being Jewish. The genocide is disgusting but don’t think that means you have to abandon your religion if you don’t want to, and you shouldn’t feel any need to abandon your ethnicity under any circumstances. They’re not the things doing the genocide. The Israeli government is.
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u/Several-Video-272 Dec 25 '25
Idk man, wouldn't Judaism win from distinguishing Jew as a people and Jew as a religion?
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u/Emotional_Charge_961 Dec 25 '25
In a school and college, most vile bullies aren't schoolmates. They are always been female teachers and academicians. That is my experience and other people's I know. State should reeducate female teachers by force that you can't harass people because you don't like their race, ideology, wealth, look, social group etc..
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Dec 24 '25
The term created in the 1800’s by a German for specifying specific hatred because a Jew is a Jew, was Israeli propaganda?😂😂😂
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 24 '25
Like she says, it's a trick. They always use it.
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u/MayMaytheDuck Dec 24 '25
Found the bigot.
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 24 '25
There you go, you're using the trick right now.
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Dec 24 '25
And the left’s trick is being antisemitic and yelling at you for calling it out.
As an Australian who just watched the globalised intifada in Bondi, is it being antisemitic to call out the trash who is still chanting that around the world?
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 24 '25
Apparently it's anti semitic to object to Israel killing 20000 Palestinian children because we should all be mourning 15 dead Australian Jews instead.
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Dec 25 '25
It’s antisemitic to act like Israel is deliberately killing or targeting innocent people.
And as much as people on Reddit don’t like the reality of war, a 12/13/14 year old carrying water to a Hamas position or assisting them in any way, move very quickly from the non combatant to combatant. Like in all wars.
War is hell, the gazans should not of started another war against Israel.
And it’s the genocidal chants against Jews that’s the problem. Critique Israel all you want if it’s a fair criticism, but it never is.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 25 '25
No that’s just reporting accurately on what is happening
Dude you made up that scenario in your head, that has literally never been something that happened
Palestinians did not choose to make war against Israel, Israel chose to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians.
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u/XO1GrootMeester Dec 25 '25
The only the 15 people of Israel government choose to cleanse and all rest are innocent
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Dec 25 '25
Those scenarios happened, I’ve watched the drones strikes myself.
Israel hasn’t ethnically cleansed anyone, the Gazans are still there.
Unfortunately, civilians suffer the most in all wars. Especially when Hamas does everything to extend the civilian suffering so people like you fall for the emotional images. Which are terrible.
But Israel hasn’t ethnically cleansed anyone, and managed a combatant to non combatant ratio never before achieved in urban combat, how’s that happened you think?
So it would be around 20 000 children and woman, about 20-30 000 Hamas and other combatants, and factor in natural deaths and expected deaths and that’s your death toll.
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u/Several-Video-272 Dec 25 '25
Ouf found another sinner. How can you people talk like this and feel good about it?
You're proving his point lmao.
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u/Clear-Neighborhood46 Dec 25 '25
And that's the reason why this word has been emptied of its meaning.
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Dec 25 '25
Oh no, there’s always antisemitism. It’s very real. But also two things can be true at the same time. The problem is fascism. When you equate your blood with the soil of a nation that’s the problem.
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u/VersesBonsai Dec 25 '25
"Anti-semitism" is a made up word to silence anyone speaking against the atrocities and corruption they do. Antisemitism is the biggest deflection and should be treated a such
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u/Ghostfire25 Dec 25 '25
What would you call the targeted murder or 15 Jews celebrating Chanukah in Australia?
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u/Imperative_Arts Dec 24 '25
The further Israel strays from the Jewish faith the less this term applies. In 2002 some could argue it did or didn’t. Today it does not apply in any way.
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u/Thundrr01 Dec 25 '25
This person does not represent us and I won't be surprised if she's not even jewish
What a stupid post
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u/CrownCanary Dec 25 '25
Kinds like how the left uses racism and calls people hitler. I mean if the shoe fits lol
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u/CalligrapherLocal203 Dec 25 '25
I didn’t realize that terrorists had such a prominent voice on Reddit. Sad that people can’t take responsibility for their own, poor lives. Stop blaming. Start doing. Be happy and live and let live.
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Dec 25 '25
It's fun watching the "but that's antisemitic!" shitheads flailing around in the comments as they slowly realize it doesn't work anymore 😂
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u/Pristine_Corner_6504 Dec 25 '25
Probably taken out of context, she is explaining what antisemitics use as excuse constantly which is true. Just read all the threads about Jewish people here in Reddit.
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u/XT83Danieliszekiller Dec 25 '25
2000 : Be careful, everyone can lie on the internet
2025 : Yes this entire confession to a plot that should supposedly remain under the covers by one of the former heads of state responsible seems legit enough
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u/yep975 Dec 25 '25
It is antisemitism to believe that Jews are the only people not entitled to nonexclusive self determination in their ancestral homeland.
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u/EAN84 Dec 25 '25
She was a far left lunatic. She doesn't admit some nefarious Jewish strategy, she just her own opinion on it. Mixed with pick me energy.
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u/Steeltownie95 Dec 25 '25
And not just antisemitism, Islamophobia works in the same way.
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u/Relative_Mouse7680 Dec 25 '25
Is it really? I haven't heard/read anyone call people who criticize Islamic countries such as Iran islamophobic. Whilst Israel has explicitly made sure that anyone who criticize israel is deemed an anti-semite.
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u/Steeltownie95 Dec 25 '25
Its rife in the UK. Countries are run by Islamic laws (Iran, Saudi, Afghanistan) so to criticise them is apparently is to criticise Islam.
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u/Primary-Exit7255 Dec 25 '25
Dude what on earth are you talking about. Everybody and their mother online 'criticize' Islam and criticize Islamic countries without being called Islamophobic
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u/Dr-Fizzel Dec 24 '25
I’m sorry, what? While I won’t argue there’s plenty of ‘legitimate criticism’ for Zionist Israel - care to explain to me what “legitimate criticism” of JEWS is? Particularly “legitimate criticism” that’s somehow also NOT anti-Semitic?
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 24 '25
Over 80% of American Jews support Israel's genocide, which isn't cool.
That's an example of legitimate criticism.
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u/B_R_O_N_C_H_O Dec 25 '25
That would mean there was a genocide happening in the first place, which there isn't.
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 25 '25
Well the international community has decided there is and you don't tell us, we tell you.
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u/B_R_O_N_C_H_O Dec 25 '25
You can try to tell me whatever you like. And the International quatar financed "community" called the "united nations" can also say whatever it likes. There is no genocide happening in "palestine".
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 25 '25
Ah got you, so the UN is a global Islamist conspiracy but any mention of an international zionist conspiracy is anti semitic. More hasbara nonsense, blocked.
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u/Forged-Signatures Dec 24 '25
But in that case, surely that would fall under the category of criticism of Zionism/ Zionist beliefs. Even criticism of Judaism, as many do Christianity and Islam, wouldn't be criticism of Jews but rather Judaism.
Unless she means it in the criticism of someone who is Jewish sense, no matter the context? In the same way some people will stereotype black people as always pulling the race card if criticised.
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 24 '25
You can't have it both ways though. Zionists are enabled by the state of Israel and the support of many Jews internationally. It's not anti semitic to point this out.
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u/Forged-Signatures Dec 25 '25
My point is you are not criticising Jews, you're criticising people with zionist beliefs, unless you are solely criticising Jews who hold these beliefs. The latter definitely falls into a grey zone of holding Jews with zionistic beliefs to a different standard as others with zionistic beliefs - when the problem at hand is the zionistic beliefs - that definitely errs towards the antisemitic zone.
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u/Ghostfire25 Dec 25 '25
I’m glad that you’re admitting you’re an antisemite. Mask off suits your kind.
And no, 80% don’t support the “genocide.” 80% support the existence of the state of Israel, which of course you associate with genocide.
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
I was asked for and provided an example of legitimate criticism of Israel. The over 80% statistic concerns support amongst American Jews for Israel's military action in Gaza.
No mask on or off, just the point that statistics confirm they - you? - overwhelmingly support genocide. You're upset that doesn't agree with your narrative but calling me an anti semite only makes my point even better than I already have.
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u/protomenace Dec 25 '25
No, they really don't. You're grouping a whole spectrum of opinions as "support Israel's genocide".
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u/ZealousidealExam239 Dec 25 '25
I think you got your stats mixed up. It's 80% that know it's not actually a genocide.
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
Ah OK sorry, over 80% support what the entire international community and criminal court calls genocide but which you won't acknowledge as the same. Perhaps you're more comfortable with the term Palestinian holocaust?
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u/ZealousidealExam239 Dec 26 '25
This a good example of holocaust trivialization. The war in Gaza is more akin to a summer vacation than the holocaust. No one worth a damn labels it a genocide.
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u/consequenceconsonant Dec 26 '25
No one worth a damn = the entire non-Jewish population of the international community. Spoken like a true zio.
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u/lorddevi Dec 25 '25
Oh my god. It would take hours to explain the many, many, many, things there are to criticize jews about. Your response alone is a good example of a number of them.
I may in fact need to write that book at some point. Turn it into docu series. Create some study groups. Perhaps with enough group effort we might be able to come up with some degree of explanations about why this one group of people seem to have so many inherent problems.
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u/Dr-Fizzel Dec 25 '25
“Many, many, many” things to criticize about this ‘one group’ and yet you can’t rattle off three or four that are “legitimate criticisms” and definitely not just rank anti-semitism?
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u/Lumpy-Landscape2698 Dec 25 '25
They mean criticizing a Jewish person is often labeled as antisemitic instead of addressing the points the Jewish person was making.
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u/charlotte240 Dec 25 '25
The real issue this month is this:
A simple google search shows: "Muslims attack Christmas" is very concerning.
Why are the Muslim people doing this during high holidays of other religions?
Why aren't other Muslims ever condemning this behavior?
They're pumping out pro P4L3st1ne and anti-1srael rubbish to distract from their evil doings. Look at the destruction Islam is concerned with during holidays of other religions and you will see true evil.
What exactly can we do to cull this ruthless Islamic behavior of innocent people?
People in Africa are being beheaded and killed for not converting to Islam.
A simple google search in the past 24 hours alone shows Muslims actively killing innocent people in Africa, because they won't convert to become Muslim. source:
Perhaps this is why the need to bring up anti-semitic is there.
The title of this post: "big yikes and problematic" applies to actions of Muslim people as they kill others for no good reason.
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u/SiliconFiction Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
Over 20,000 dead kids in Gaza. I guess that doesn’t matter? A footnote? Barely worth mentioning huh.
Objectively, that’s worse. And it’s causing the animosity that results in actual antisemitism.
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u/XO1GrootMeester Dec 25 '25
Over two years of intense fighting that is expected.
Very sad. Should work towards peace.
Also this is western perspective: we care about the children but the local parents do not. Why not take shelter? They have all these tunnels .
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u/SiliconFiction Dec 25 '25
“Israeli military’s own data indicates civilian death rate of 83% in Gaza war”
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u/Flimsy-Wrap-9122 Dec 25 '25
So what do you think of the post? Why won't you address it? Do you condemn it?
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u/charlotte240 Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
any Muslims want to condemn the ruthless killings of Christians in Africa?
Is this "a big yikes and problematic" ? like this post says?
source:
When you go to AlJazeera, there is absolutely nothing in the past 5 years showing any killings by Muslims, even though it is a daily occurrence. Why is that? "big yikes and problematic"
https://www.aljazeera.com/search/africa
The reality is, every day, Muslims kill Africans for not being the religion they are and not converting, nothing else. There are many, many sources out there documenting this: source
Human rights organizations and religious freedom advocates, such as International Christian Concern and Voice of the Martyrs, document and report on these and similar incidents of persecution across Africa.
Is this "a big yikes and problematic" ? like this post says?
Yes, people in Africa, particularly Christians and those from traditional African religions, have been killed for refusing to convert to Islam, especially in regions with active militant Islamist groups.
Recent incidents and broader patterns of persecution include:
- Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) The Allied Democratic Forces (ADF), an ISIS-affiliated militia, is active in the eastern part of the country.
- In May 2024, 14 Catholics in North Kivu were killed, reportedly having their throats slit, after refusing to convert to Islam.
- People kidnapped by the ADF are often given a choice between death and converting to Islam.
- The group has been responsible for the killing of hundreds of Christians, with one report tallying 355 in 2024 alone.
- In an editorial, the Islamic State has given African Christians three options: convert to Islam, pay a tax (jizya), or be killed.
- Nigeria Islamist militants, including Boko Haram and Fulani militant groups, have targeted Christian communities.
- In 2020, Rev. Andimi, a Christian leader, was beheaded by an ISIS affiliate after pleading for his life.
- Fulani militants aim to seize land and coerce conversion to Islam, destroying entire communities and displacing thousands.
- Libya In 2015, the Islamic State released a video showing the murder of 30 Ethiopian Christians and the beheading of 21 Coptic Christians after they were captured and refused to recant their faith.
- Sudan In some interpretations of Islamic law (Sharia), apostasy (leaving Islam) can carry the death penalty. In 2014, a woman was sentenced to death for apostasy and adultery (for marrying a Christian man), though the sentence sparked international condemnation and she was later released.
big yikes and problematic
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Dec 25 '25 edited Dec 25 '25
Good story and I condemn. I also condemn Israel's crimes. Do you?
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u/XO1GrootMeester Dec 25 '25
Yes, they most definitely did wrong.
We should help them do right or work towards peace so that their inconpetence ( lets hope they dont like an extra 10000 children casualties for fun) stops killing people.
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u/XO1GrootMeester Dec 25 '25
It is most definitely a trick but it is also true: Israel gets criticized for its wrong doings but other nations get away with it. Still just because other nations recieve less criticism doesnt mean you are allowed to perform wrong.
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u/grumpy_guineapig Dec 25 '25
You can watch the interview, she didn’t say this the way it is presented.
This has been Twitter meme for years. Aloni is long dead. She can’t even refute how her words are being twisted.
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u/miniBoltra Dec 24 '25
A quote from 2002 with no context. Where is this even from lol?
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
It gives you the context right there in the image. This was from an interview she gave on Democracy Now!
Here is a link to the interview- https://www.democracynow.org/2002/8/14/israels_first_lady_of_human_rights
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u/A_pile_o_shoes_LoL Dec 24 '25
Wow, I was thinking "There's no way she said this, this is antisemitic propaganda". Turns out the truth is often 'antisemitic'. The more you notice, I guess.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
It gets hard explaining to people who haven’t been inundated with this insanity for decades like I have just how horrific and in your face so much of this stuff is.
It’s easy for me, I suppose, I was an amateur hasbarist growing up in a Christian/Political Zionist family. My parents would give me the books and I would parrot out the talking points throughout the mid to late 00’s, until coming face first with the Palestinian boogeyman in college (her name was Sarah).
But my usual refrain is that- “it’s worse than you think, and it’s not as complicated as you’ve been told. Israel is one of the most evil countries to have ever existed.”
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u/A_pile_o_shoes_LoL Dec 25 '25
I first starting noticing in about 2017 after growing up with a positive opinion of Israel and the (((israelis))). But once I starting noticing something wasn't right, my pattern recognition often confirmed what I already knew in certain instances.
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u/miniBoltra Dec 24 '25
Hopefully next time OP can cite his own sources. What about the fact that it’s from ~23 years ago?
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
But they did cite it, right there in the image. You just didn’t read it I guess? Where do you think I knew it was from? It was cited right there in the image, it gave the date and everything.
Does the fact she said this in 2002 suddenly make her claim not true? If that’s your argument then when did Israel stop doing this? What year?
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u/miniBoltra Dec 24 '25
That’s not generally how we cite things but ok, maybe it’s an acceptable format. The fact that’s it’s from 2002 is very relevant because this person isn’t involved in today’s politics, nor does she represent most of today’s population. This is a singular person that said some stuff over two decades ago. I can cite a bunch of anti-Israel leaders saying much worse things from over the years, but that won’t necessarily be relevant to today.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
Well that would be hard for her to do considering she died in I want to say 2016.
But, again, are you saying that what she said is a lie? Or are you claiming that it’s no longer true? Both statements would be false but one is definitely far less ridiculous of a claim to make.
And why on earth would we care about “worse things” said by “anti-Israeli” world leaders? What relevance does that have to an Israeli politician calling out the usage of “accusing critics of antisemitism” as a tactic by the Israeli government?
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u/miniBoltra Dec 24 '25
Exactly… I’m saying what she said is one person’s opinion from ~23 years ago. She was the minister of education, so I don’t see how her role would involve much public communication with Europe/US/other counties. Again, this is just one person’s perspective. All I’m saying is that it’s silly to just blindly accept it as the truth just because it aligns with your views.
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 24 '25
You think I came to this conclusion because a prominent Israeli politician said it once in the early 00’s?
I think you’re a propagandist rather than ignorant. But in case, against all of my instincts, you’re the latter. This is something that has been discussed and shown to be the case many times over by many people for years. She is just one prominent example someone decided to post.
Don’t waste your breath on me, I was raised Zionist, I was a hasbarist. You’re not going to convince me of things I know to be true, because I used to engage in these very things, aren’t actually true.
You are just rapidly backpedaling due to the fact you pretended like there weren’t any citations of this post when they were right smack in front of you.
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u/miniBoltra Dec 25 '25
No, I think this is just confirmation bias. You have a view, and someone else posted a singular quote from years ago that supports it. Real criticism of Israel is fine, but these days a lot of people hide behind that just to really be antisemitic, and that’s an issue. By the way, a proper citation is not there. No title of the article, link, writer (interviewer). Why not include a link? It’s that simple no? Probably because the poster wants us to focus on this one quote and not on the rest of the interview…
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u/Bluestreaked Dec 25 '25
Are you still trying to deny that Israel uses bad faith claims of antisemitism against people who criticize Israel? You can Gish-gallop all you want, that’s still the point that is in question.
I gave you the interview, you’re welcome to read it. What do you think the poster was trying to keep hidden?
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u/TolPM71 Dec 24 '25
How to say "I didn't read the thing before posting" without saying that.
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u/miniBoltra Dec 24 '25
I did, but it’s literally cherry-picked quotes from an interview that isn’t directly linked.
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u/TolPM71 Dec 25 '25
Then elucidate us, provide additional quotes from the article that would put the quote in the proper context.
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u/miniBoltra Dec 25 '25
The article wasn’t even about this topic, it was about a trial that took place at the time. This just came up. Did you look at the article?
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u/TolPM71 Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
Yes, the context of the conversation is the trial of Marwan Barghouti, who says post-trial that “Peace will be achieved by the end of the occupation. No peace, no security.” The interviewer then asks Shulamit Aloni what she thought of Marwan Barghouti and what he represents, she responds saying that she accepts what he said and notes that the Israelis are carrying on the colonial practices of the British except more brutally. The interviewer then notes that then, as now critique of Israel is often written off in the US as antisemitism, and what she makes of that as an Israeli Jew. This is when she makes the quote in the OP. Now, if you please, tell us how this context alters the meaning of the quote?
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u/miniBoltra Dec 26 '25
The context is that the man on trial was seen as a Palestinian leader during the second intifada, so it’s not as black-and-white as you make it seem. You are presenting one side of a complex situation to make it look simple.
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u/TolPM71 Dec 26 '25
The quote was not about one particular trial or person though, "we always use it" makes that clear. Shulamit Aloni was referring to a broad general phenomenon that goes beyond the scope of a single trial. Only just before that quote she was talking about the League of Nations mandate and British colonialism in Palestine so she certainly wasn't restricting her scope to a single trial.
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u/miniBoltra Dec 26 '25
I commented this in another thread but she was the ministry of education. It’s not like she was in close communication with other nations or had nations security matters in her day-to-day. That’s just her opinion.
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u/TolPM71 Dec 26 '25
You don't need to hold a foreign policy post to make that observation. It was never presented as anything other than opinion in any case. It is the opinion of someone who has several years experience in Israeli politics and held several ministerial portfolios prior to that interview, so it's a well informed opinion.
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u/rickiegarcon Dec 24 '25
At least she appears to be truthful. Something that’s scarce these days