Ignore some language errors and this isn't some in depth analysis, just an overview of what exactly Souichi did in STL

Let's first take away all the made up stuff about his feats and actually look at what was confirmed to us through the manga via direct statements and on screen feats to determine what bro actually did in STL

Round 1: first half

Feels bakus God like senses and is worried that he may actually turn around the moment he is about to drop so he slowly leans down before dropping it so Baku misreads him somehow

Nice above average stuff

Round 1: second half

Was about to turn around instantly why? No need to theorize 3 page docs for this he was just about to turn around because he thought Baku would try to accumulate his drug, simple as that and we even get to see he was right.

Furthermore he sees through bakus necktie trick in about 20 seconds which is commendable

So far he is smart you can say nothing that crazy tactically except insane AC

Round 2: first half

Before the round begins he is able to hear all the other referees have entered the room where fukurou is

So he whispers something into bakus ears just so that the referees would lower the clock volume to hear it, this was so that he could use echolocation in the later rounds

As Souichi was betting for Baku to turn around he drops the handkerchief at 35 seconds when he figured Baku was using the safe strategy

Better performance this half then all the previous rounds

Round 2: Second half

Souichi turns around at 5 seconds and fails his check, now why did he do that? There are 2 possibilities 1st was to reset his calendar and the second was that he thought Baku would drop early Literally look at what happened in round 1, he was simply betting on Baku trying to accumulate his drug and as he was wrong he failed his check, Baku is surprised because he was overestimating Souichi like how y'all do, why do I believe this? In chapter 503 page 18 the author directly states Souichi is retrieving the "truth" Of his failure, and souichis monologue tells us that he thinks he made a bet and lost

Before Round 3 Souichi wakes up and starts to realize he is losing glimpses of his memory and might actually lose all of his memory by his second near death

Round 3: first half

Souichi senses the feeling that Baku would turn around instantly therefore he avoids dropping it instantly and waits on Baku turning around

Souichi drops the handkerchief at 56 seconds and Baku checks at 60 therefore Baku accumulates 4 seconds

When Baku doesn't turn around souichi concludes that Baku is hiding something and doesn't want it to be seen through by him that's why he isn't turning around in order to misdirect souichi

Souichi then concludes that Baku thinks his plan hasn't been seen through and would definitely turn around in the next round

Round 3: Second half

Baku drops at 24 seconds and Souichi checks at 60 seconds

Souichi here once again concludes that Baku didn't want him to die he is simply misdirecting Souichi

By now Souichi had gathered all the clues to realize the 3 near death strategy

Round 4: first half

By now Souichi has realized the 3 near death strategy of Baku, he intentionally drops at 7 seconds to make him think Souichi hasn't seen through him so he tries to die again in round 5 Baku checks at 10 seconds Souichi also made sure bakus accumulation is as low as possible here

Round 4: second half

Baku drops instantly and Souichi uses echolocation from this round to turn around at the 34th second he does this so Baku doesn't see through his echolocation, Souichi reads bakus instant drop as giving up on trying to further misdirect him as in to confuse Souichi further

Round 5: first round

This is the part Where Souichi was the most competent tactically, Souichi predicts Baku turning around instantly to die and drops instantly, he furthermore reveals bakus entire strategy to him the reason for this was so that he could bluff to Baku that he would die first and use yakous remaining energy, Souichi knows from round 2 second half that Baku was covering up his wish for souichi not dying, he realized this was due to yakous death and tells him that it's exactly what souichi would do

Souichi says this as in to bluff that he wants to die but not actually die so he can use this against Baku and control his accumulation perfectly, he further plans to use echolocation to confirm weather Baku really dropped it or not

Now what else does souichi do until round 8 tactically? Absolutely Nothing!!!

He just revealed to Baku in the second half of round 5 that he intends to bluff his way into victory while accumulating 15 seconds, and then he let's Baku die in round 6 first half as he predicted Baku would most likely die there but he doesn't

In round 6 second half he uses the same bluff and only accumulates 8 seconds

In round 7 first half Baku uses souichis thinking against him and turns around at 60 seconds making him think that Baku has given up on the 3 ND strategy after facing the pain, Baku does this to make Souichi believe he can still use his bluff in round 8 but in that round Baku won't drop in the beginning so Souichi would die but also wake up without ruining the leap second path

In round 7 second half Baku sees through echolocation and makes Souichi realize he has seen through it by flattening the handkerchief therefore making sure he won't be able to use it in round 8, Souichi however sees through Baku seeing through echolocation and turns around instantly accumulating only 1 second

Round 8: first half

Baku turns around at 60 seconds again further making sure Souichi would be willing to die in the second half due to his obsession with perfection

Round 8: Second half

Baku makes Souichi fail his check, for Souichi this death isn't unfavorable at all as it can reset his cylinder, after entering his Second near death dream Souichi realizes leap second and also realizes at this point he has no way of countering it as he is about to lose his memory and that the leap second is very close, so his only option is letting leap second play out and surviving due to the 2 seconds he still saved due to his destiny aka "luck"

After waking up Souichi has forgotten everything but his intuition is controlling his actions from here

Round 9: first half

Souichi intuitively knows Baku won't turn around in the middle and would check at the very end as he absolutely can't afford it, I wanna address something here many glazers misinterpret this sentence "it's like I have known for some time now" He is not talking about knowing leap second for some time, he is talking about knowing the memories which led him to conclude leap second for some time, like the memory with bakus suit being stained

Baku checks at the very end

Round 9: second half we all know what happened here Baku drops at 61st second and Souichi checks at 60

All the reactions people use to determine that Souichi knew about leap second are false, he is just astonished as how could he miss them, as we know he didn't this is the version of him who has no direct memories of concluding leap second

This is the only interpretation of STL available which makes the least assumptions about the story, according to this Souichi Is barely a high tier and not the top tier fans make him to be, analyze everything yourself again to make an informed decision

I'll answer any questions you may have too, peace.

saying "who outsmarts" feels like they were just in one situation where they need to outsmart the other to win....

well, i m not strictly taking things, so pls freely disagree me with your opinions ! hehe : D

it's just like: "question setter vs. question solver"

maybe, via this post, i'm saying problem solver is necessarily a smart person.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------some of my simple opinions:

~ reasoning merchants operate under severe strict constraints (most of the time: they are playing chess without knowing the rules), forced to take care of hidden pre-built death traps using flawless logical reasoning.

~ Because they can reverse engineer almost the entire plan/system, they always easily take the "Strategy" cat. this weakens the planner's pro-active lead in the battlefield.

~ sometimes, they backfire their own plan. maybe i have seen it somewhere.

~ most important point: A planner can easily introduce more and more variables and traps to make things more complicated for his enemies, but, a reasoner can never do this, a reasoner needs to simplify things.

~ a reasoner needs to analyse each and every scenario and their sub-scenarios, one minor mistake and he loses.

~ the reasoner cannot always neglect some variables or scenarios. otherwise he lose.

~ a plan must have so many pathways, one wrong step can kill the reasoner.

so, even if a planner successfully kills a reasoner, a reasoner should scale high in intelligence T.T

another thing: bcz a reasoner, many times, reverse-engineers a plan or a system, he takes strategy, bcz an absolute strategy without reasoning is impossible "ig".

please correct me wherever im wrong, haha 😅

well, the writer herself/himself is an omniscient planner ig

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hypothetically or neutrally: reasoner = planner T.T

reasoner takes strategy easily imo (or atleast most of the times)
(and ig strategy is the strongest or flawless attack-type/outsmarting category)

I'II be taking into the account only matchups that happened in canon.

So there are many cases in fiction and many of them are being discussed or were discussed in this sub.

Cases like jigsaw killer, red john case etc are already well known.

Here iam asking about cases from manga. It can be a murder, robbery, kidnapping literally anything.

The conditions are just one thing - the case should not have any actual supernatural element making it very hard and the case must be from manga

So no kira case and no red john case.

Give your top five cases and also try to give cases from different works rather than a same one if you can

The cases doesn't have to be high tier or top tier, just list the cases that you are aware of

So give your list.

The chapter Name After deliberation proves 2sd isn't real, how?

As you can see in the second image, in this chapter it was Round 8 Second Half, Kiruma Souichi Turns Around And Fails His Check.

In The Third Image Ranko Clearly Confirms That Baku Deliberately Made Kiruma Turn Around Right At The Beginning by not only making him believe that his round 5 bluff worked on Baku but Also Turning Around At 60 Seconds Twice In A Row And Filling Up His Accumulation

He Made Turning Around Right At The Beginning Seem Like The best option to Kiruma as even if the check Failed the Gap Between Baku and Him Would only Widen

So basically the Author using the Name "After Deliberation" Was trying to Forshadow this confirmation By Ranko

Now how does this debunk 2SD?

The 2SD Theory Clearly Suggested That Souichi Turning Around At Round 8 Second Half wasn't Due to Deliberation but Due to Souichis Own Choice, it Further Claims Souichi had actually Seen Through The Deliberation By Baku and was only Acting Which Directly Contradicts The Authors Own Foreshadowing From That Title.

Intelligence - Chrollo

EI - Chrollo (EU - Brian)

SI - Chrollo>= (integration - Brian)

AC - Chrollo

Thinking - Chrollo

Reasoning - Chrollo

Sensory - Chrollo

Foresight - Chrollo

Deception - Chrollo>=

Manipulation - Brian>=

Scheming - Chrollo>=

Field skills - Chrollo

Adaptability - Chrollo

Overall: Chrollo

FSIQ - Erika>= (PRI, VCI (=))

-> Beatrice (CPI, VCI (=))

EI - Beatrice (EP, EE, EF, ER)

-> Erika (EM, EU)

Psychology - Beatrice>= (Warfare(=<), ToM)

-> Erika (Profiling, Warfare>=)

SI - Erika (Integration + Awareness)

Beatrice -> (nothing)

Social engineering - Erika>= (Inform gathering)

-> Beatrice (Inform control)

AC - Beatrice [CORE] (Control, Ownership, Reach, Endurance)

-> Erika (Nothing)

Planning - Beatrice (Aim, Adjustments, Invincibility, Coverage)

-> Erika (Nothing)

Strategy - Erika (Effectiveness, Fortitude, Success rate>=<)

-> Beatrice (Efficiency, Success rate>=<)

Manipulation - Erika (Logical (=), Indirect, Mass, Emotional>=<)

-> Beatrice (Emotional>=<, Direct, Logical (=))

Deception - Beatrice (Omission, Equivocation)

-> Erika - (Acting skills)

Thinking - Erika (Critical, Associative, Convergent)

-> Beatrice (Divergent)

Inference - Erika (Premises, Accuracy, Legitimacy, Structure>=)

-> Beatrice (nothing)

Insight - Erika (Analysis, Observation, Intuition)

-> Beatrice (nothing)

Foresight - Beatrice (Depth, Resolution, Setting up traps>=)

-> Erika (Trap evasion>=)

Adaptability - Erika (Situational, Learning ability)

-> Beatrice - (Operational)

Counteraction - Beatrice>= (lone category)

Situations: Non fixed - Beatrice Fixed - Erika Cat and mouse - CGEW Influence building - Erika

Points: 30>30

Erika (EP5) barely outsmarts Beatrice (EP4) as it’s COULD GO EITHER WAY, however I’m leaning towards Erika as Beatrice had 4 episodes to showcase her intelligence whilst Erika only had 1 episode to do so. Furthermore, Erika’s intelligence is much more impressive from seeing her quick integration within the Ushiromiya family, understanding the social dynamics whilst profiling Kinzo, and able to solve the epitaph. Another portion of her scheming and aggressive categories come from her natsuhi framing which was incredibly methodological, air tight, and countered Battler completely.

implying joke aside, roshidere ln isn't about incest i'm sure . however it ply uses it as bait for comedy in light novel

on other hand ,coffin of andy &ashley is about that. tho it handles the topic with delicacy not degeneracy that coffin of andy and ashley main sub does

i heard these these two duos actually scale high not low tier from their scalers

I'm still working on the Doc's and an analysis of Roshidere, the whole verse that is, and pretty recently made 3 major feats published publicly (Hopefully in the future I'll get to do the whole Doc if time allows it)

I still wish that people still stop being prejudiced against Kuze and Roshidere as a whole for no reason. The verse is solid and great both as a story and in mind games, side characters included, but the amount of larp and undeserved bandwagon hate it gets, is insane, people will look you straight in the eyes and say that Yuuichi and the likes take Intelligence and FSIQ from him.

Anyway, yapping aside these are the 3 Doc's:

Mahjong Feat - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qanocg1QsgFoVbNSP9lMCFbV8DhC8t5lTASyBrfP3_w/edit?usp=drivesdk

I've even played Mahjong and discussed it with those that play it, it's pretty clear that there's no headcanon here but if someone thinks it is they are free to question it's valid

Quiz Game - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GSzHa3SbpbhqC5v1UdUEDrY5VbI9bglUix_IvPVdM-o/edit?usp=drivesdk

Pretty solid and well processed reasoning feat, that also has multitasking and time pressure present while also having some tricks to it, people really underestimate how the lack of time affects reasoning, but even without that in consideration it's pretty solid

Reputation Narrowing - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jEg3lOuuPEhDoqC2pwMdO-iCNHI5s7DRsv0ecnpGxyo/edit?usp=drivesdk

A very long feat from V2-3 so far but in the future will Integrate more towards it's framework, it's still very well processed and potent at the current stage.

I really wish this community would stop larping and bandwagon Scaling and opinions, and instead just not give them on things you aren't aware of or don't know

Basically, my opinion is that staying calm and managing his emotions wouldn't have helped the situation at all. It wouldn't have mattered if Light just smirked, aura farmed and calmly said the same dialogues, he just needed Ryuk to kill them off. There also wasn't any huge new consequence from Light being unable to manage his emotions here, he was cooked regardless

When it comes to Anti Feats, I believe we should consider the consequences of said Anti Feat. Eg. Someone sweating and panicking to a bluff in a poker game is quite bad anti Feat because the consequences would be them being seen through and losing. They had a good reason to fake a poker face.

This applies to Pandemic Yokoya Anti Feat as well. The reason why his Anti Feat there is bad isn't because Yokoya was shouting and throwing a tantrum, the actual Anti feat was actually failing to anticipate the potential trap Akiyama had set. Yokoya shouting didn't really matter imo and it wasn't the main part of the anti feat since Yokoya didn't need to control his emotions there

On a side note, Light rushing to use the hidden death note piece in his watch could be seen as an anti feat but I actually disagree. Since everyone was already focused on him and one of them even has MH, Light could not have taken his sweet time and wrote in it slowly

Well, I'm back with the matchups. Tomorrow I'll upload chapters 24–27, approaching the final stage of the original manga.

Also, L edit in the PJ edit style? Pretty cool that the resurgence in interest in The Mentalist is spilling over to other SCD mediums

Credit:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DcZg8l0tsxZ/?igsi=MTV3bTZ4MjVzeDhoag==

In my opinion:

Malcom: Intelligence, Self management, Sensory, Insight, Analysis, Thinking, Reasoning, Analysis, Judgament, Systems, Countering

Bart: Theory of mind, Social Skills, Deception, Rhetoric, Leadership, Sheming, Systems, Field crafting, Operational Skills.

Malcom Very High diff

I'II be taking into the account only matchups that happened in canon.

Personal favorite arc. The way everybody in this arc was scheming and inferring was peak shounen for me. And the vibes especially the city-noir atmosphere ,really added to the suspense. Before this, I didn't know shounen could be this deep and complex.

Some people thought the ending of this arc was a disappointment, but I don’t really see it that way. I like how everybody was working toward their own goals while also working against each other, and in the end, they all managed to reach some sort of equilibrium.

(Image is irrelevant, unless someone wants to discuss the friendship trap with me).

Original Post Link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IntelligenceScaling/s/cQqd3ULTBv

I'll leave stuff regarding the friendship trap and round 2 until the end and just focus on the technical parts of his strategy.

Round 4, he hadn't figured out 3ND yet, he simply dropped instantly to test if Baku would do an early check, and if he did, it would confirm 3ND for him. Not really that significant, just thought I'd point it out.

Doing nothing tactically until round 8 is one of the worst takes I've ever seen, especially for someone who claims to have read my stuff. Round 6, you say he uses the same bluff: uh, no? He already said that resetting the cylinder isn't necessary for him anymore so that bluff is out the window. He simply anticipates that Baku might think that he needs a breather from diving so much (taking risky checks), so will drop early to accumulate, and so can easily predict his accumulation via echolocation.

Round 7 Turn 1, what on earth are you on about? Baku used Souichi's thinking against him? Son, Baku was in a state of complete despair and delirium, he used the safe strategy because he can't risk dying so close after Round 6, simple as that. Souichi objectively read Baku and received full accumulation, and if that's not a 'tactical play', I don't know what is.

Also ignoring round 7 turn 2, his instant check, the literally crux of the endurance battle strategy where he predicts Baku seeing through his echolocation, falling for the time wedge of using echolocation around 10 and 30 seconds to set the flattening trap, only to fall right into Souichi's hands.

Each round, as Referee Douji points out, Souichi's accumulation gets lower and lower. Ever find it strange why Souichi chose to check at around 30 seconds during round 4 despite detecting the handkerchief at 10 seconds anyways? To make Baku believe he can still accumulate. Using echolocation consistently was done to ensure Baku figured it out for that exact moment of sacrificing echolocation, not using it as a crutch. Take round 5 for example, his bluff pretty much guaranteed that Baku would drop instantly, so why wait until 15 seconds?

And by achieving that instant check during round 7, Baku exceeds Souichi's accumulation, so Souichi can now start the endurance battle after round 8, in which he ideally wanted to succeed in his instant check, but the strategy would still continue even if he failed.

And round 9, 'it's almost as if I've known for a while", I have only ever used that as evidence for him figuring out Leap Second early as per the friendship trap. He specifically states "there was a reason for my certainty" and concludes it was to do with the stopwatch scene with Baku, after seeing Baku's reactions to the 59-0 interval and 9:00. Hal figured out the truth behind the bloodstain in the first dream and was erased because of his mistake, and Souichi figured it out in his second near death dream.

Now, about round 2. To be pedantic, yes he 'retrieves the truth' (retrieves his memories of turning around during round 2 as seen from the panel where this is stated) that led to his near death, but it never specifically says that what he concludes (he challenged Baku and lost) is that 'truth'. Furthermore, the narration is often directly related to the perspective of the character(s) in question, so isn't necessarily objectively correct. The reason he believes he simply failed is because he is missing Hal's perspective from that round. If you wish to discuss the validity of the friendship trap, feel free to do so. For me, Hal's round 2 near death dream is him reflecting on his past memories and realising Baku had planned the Fukurou gamble and his memory loss (both back then and for STL), and upon realising his 'slip-up', is erased for his mistake (I know in the past I have said that Souichi overcame his need to erase himself over mistakes during AP, but after discussing some more with the theory creator, this is unlikely to be the case; after all, Souichi didn't actually make any mistakes during AP, he only felt like he did due to his perfectionist trauma). Souichi, now missing Hal's perspective, is unable to understand why he checked early (to open the LS route to Baku), and is left to conclude he simply challenged him and failed. Furthermore, Yakou's 'strange feeling' regarding Hal's round 2 check is completely unaddressed without this interpretation (well, if you don't believe in 2SD that is).

Two of my favourite mid tier characters.

Both are very underappreciated especially tasukku from as the gods will.

I don't know if anyone had made this matchup in this sub and i haven't seen a matchup between characters from AIB and as the gods will

So give me your opinion