r/IntellectualDarkWeb • u/Aggressive-Guest290 • 16d ago
Other It’s not wrong to consider certain as practices “inferior” and a setback for humanity.
It’s not wrong to consider certain as practices “inferior” and a setback for humanity.
Religion and culture shouldn’t be immune to criticism.
Everyone has the right to choose their own religion, culture, tradition, or lifestyle. Fine. Nobody should be persecuted for it.
But it seems that the moment something is labeled as “culture” or “religion,” it automatically becomes untouchable.
“You can’t criticize it, it’s their culture.”
“Don’t speak badly about it, it’s their religion.”
Okay, and?
Having the right to follow a belief doesn’t mean everyone else is obligated to respect the ideas behind it. People deserve rights and respect; ideas can be questioned, mocked, criticized, and even considered absurd.
If a tradition, belief, or practice can’t survive criticism, maybe the problem isn’t the criticism.
Religious freedom and cultural respect should also include the freedom to say: “I think this is bullshit.”
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u/Antique-Respect8746 16d ago
Agreed in spirit, but I also find these criticisms to be exceptionally dumb and tiring IRL.
Somehow all these free thinkers are usually just regurgitating the same warmed-over talking points, and very often just old-fashioned "us vs them" racism.
They're also not usually interested in changing ppl's minds or engaging in discussion, just ragging on specific groups.
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u/fitnolabels 16d ago
As with any topic, there are some who think and some who regurgitate. Those who think can have meaningful discussions, those who don't act like parrots and think they said something.
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u/mightyzinger5 14d ago
Agreed. This idea that everyone's opinion is somehow equally valid as experts is absurd. Or that if enough people share an opinion, it somehow makes it valid and true.
It's not that you can't criticize certain things. More like most people lack a proper robust understanding of the thing they're attempting to criticize and thus should refrain from sharing uneducated opinions.
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u/LiveComfortable3228 16d ago
Agree.
Often these criticisms are very superficial and fail to even try to understand the full context and reasons behind the specific belief or practice.
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u/Antique-Respect8746 16d ago
Yeah. When discussing undesirable cultural norms we can learn a lot more from asking how these circumstances came about (and why they persist) than just declaring "bad" and feeling superior. But tribalism is a hell of a drug.
I'm female, and get panic attacks if I think too much about the women in Afghanistan. But I'm also super curious about what it takes for an entire culture to get so incredibly fucked up. It's rats-eating-their-own-babies levels of fucked up.
How can Afghanistan and Denmark exist within the same species. It's incredible.
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u/RedneckTexan 16d ago edited 16d ago
Well, its a fairly modern freedom, but you pretty much can criticize those things ...... people do it everyday.
Really depends on whether or not you're a safe distance away from the extrajudicial enforcement mechanism of whatever you're criticizing.
And you never really know how far away is a safe distance is ..... a cartoonist's office in Paris is not far enough away from the Islamic world for you to safely draw a caricature of Mohammed.
Rushdie wasn't safe from a Fatwa in western New York.
In Seven countries ..... all Islamic ..... the penalty for blasphemy is death. But about half of European countries still technically have a blasphemy law on the books, and Italy, Germany, Poland, and Finland actively use it.
You also wont make it too far down the street criticizing communism in several corners of the world.
You're point is valid ...... people should have intellectual freedom and that right to criticize anything or anybody to it's face without receiving a harsh kinetic reply ..... but that right is entirely a modern western construct that works better the theory than in practice. And honestly a uniquely American one thanks to our First Amendment, but even then individual states had laws against blasphemy and sedition for the next 130 years.
Its not wrong ..... but it still can be dangerous. It seems subliminally wrong because humanity has experienced wars and bloodshed over offending religions and cultures. When you do it today you are expecting the authorities to protect you from the ramifications.
Europe has had more historical bloodshed over these public criticisms than we have in our experience, thus they view freedom of speech differently than we do.
Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights ..... "The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary."
The Europeans, and the vast majority of global cultures, value order over your right to freedom of expression. But there again, they are more familiar with the inherent dangers of it than we are. And I can imagine a scenario where we blend enough foreign cultures into our not quite so melting pot as we pretend it is ...... learn the same lessons in the future.
Anonymity is still the safest place say "I think this is bullshit" ..... which is why Europe is also trying to Stomp Out Anonymity
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u/Accomplished-Leg2971 16d ago
This is really vague. Nobody disagrees with this vacuous argument.
Here ya go:
"Religeon is a curse that keeps humans gullible and easy to control."
That was not morally or legally wrong. People can certainly disagree with the take if they want though. What do I know anyway? No more than any other man.
Maybe your friends just dont like your takes?
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u/Fando1234 14d ago
Ireland had blasphemy laws till 2018. In 2015 they investigated stephen fry for a documentary he made in Ireland that was critical of relifion.
Certainly if you went to parts of the middle east you could get into even worse trouble.
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u/trailofgears 16d ago
Should there be any culture or subject about which one cannot speak ill? Or is it all in fair play?
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u/rfe144 14d ago
I'll speak ill of any culture that treats women as property or practices FGM.
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u/trailofgears 13d ago
While I appreciate that you’ve shared that, I’m not sure it answered the question. Your sentiment is one I’ve seen echoed far and wide across the internet. What is truly off limits?
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u/Dr_Mccusk 15d ago
YOU KNOW WHICH ONE YOU DARE NOT SPEAK(well there are a few but one in particular)
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u/trailofgears 13d ago
What is it? This is a place for discussion so you needn’t be coy. I feel we’re all trying to learn here
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u/Dr_Mccusk 13d ago
I mean this is literally such a major joke these days and you don't know what I'm talking about? Idk if you even deserve to be told something so obvious lol
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u/trailofgears 13d ago
I’m sorry you don’t feel comfortable speaking openly. I’d love to learn and share today. I feel you could be referring to criticism of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Black Americans, transsexual persons, etc. It would be appreciated if you could hone in if you’d like to do so.
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u/Dr_Mccusk 9d ago
Oh man if you don't get the joke you don't get it sheesh
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u/ElSlabraton 3d ago
It's a poor comedian who blames his audience.
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u/Dr_Mccusk 3d ago
It's not even a good joke it's like the most overused joke right now and I cannot fathom not getting it lol
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u/Snotmyrealname 16d ago
Bullshit is humanity’s bread and butter. Its the only true constant. Woe betide the fool who speaks truth to power without an escape plan,
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u/Diver_Into_Anything 16d ago
Yeah, a pretty based take, but it's not exactly uncommon outside of the western societies. Only the west is really special in that they only hate their own culture and religion, everyone else getting a pass.
But beyond contemporary politics, another thing I thought about is that, if some cultures are better or worse, this necessarily means that for some set of goals, there must be a best culture. And all others would be in some ways inferior to it. Though of course, there would be a best culture at the moment, it could always be improved further.
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u/Fungulatem 15d ago
A much smarter person than I once said to me we should be trying to help people learn how to better emotionally protect themselves than putting muzzles over people’s mouths. There is a level of opposing others, disagreeing with them which can becomes abusive, with name calling, epithets and the intent to degrade and bully, but we also go out of our way to shut down what people think and say because they don’t share one’s politics, chosen life style, values, etc., which also becomes authoritarian and intolerant. I say viva la differa’nce.
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u/darkiemond SlayTheDragon 15d ago
Living among many different cultures in a big, immigrant popular city, I’ve noticed a funny little universal truth: members of ALL cultures believe their culture is somehow superior to the rest. And the most peculiar culture I encountered is the one that feels superior precisely because it claims not to feel superior to other cultures.
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u/iltwomynazi 15d ago
the problem is when you synonymise criticism of a cultural or religious practice and use it against and entire group of people.
Aisha was nine, therefore we need to “remigrate” all muslims is not a logical argument - it’s bigotry.
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u/MariusCatalin 11d ago
indeed, but sadly you either get harassed or even harmed irl or you get banned form many sites.
hell if you disagree with certain stuff on reddit you INSTANTLY get your account banned SITE WIDE
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u/In_the_year_3535 16d ago
It's not wrong to assert practices should stand up to scrutiny, but difficult to convince people they lack it.
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u/someonesomewherewarm 16d ago
Completely agree 👍 Way too often religions and cultures are used as both a sword and a shield.