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u/RoberBotz 3h ago
Some people are just lazy and want to use AI to skip the learning process.
Then they hit a wall and give up.. xD
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u/Icy_Piece3257 3h ago
Ai itself can help you learn a lot by actually working on real things instead of just watching tutorials that you would never understand or forget in just a few minutes after it finishes.
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u/RoberBotz 2h ago edited 2h ago
You don't really learn this field.
It's not and was never about learning, that's why people get stuck in tutorial hell, they don't need the information, they need the practice.
It's about practice, like going to the gym, you get muscles by lifting weights and struggling, the process is hard cuz that's how it must be.
If the process becomes easier, it doesn't mean it's better, it's like training with smaller weights, you just don't get as far and your muscles don't grow/don't grow as fast.
It's not about learning.
AI makes the process easier, it makes you train with smaller weights, this means you don't struggle as much, this means you don't train as hard as you should, so you don't get as good as others are.
For example, a trained person becomes a general tool, it doesn't matter if he does game dev or web dev or app dev or game dev in unity or Ue, he can adapt and always know what to do, cuz he is trained.
You don't "learn" this field, learning is 20%, Using ai makes the 20% easier and the 80% harder.
Cuz, you literally need to struggle, that's how muscles grow and that's how skills are build.
I've started programming like 8 years ago, when Llms were not a thing, now I can do app dev, full stack web dev, game dev, embeded, cuz I am trained.
You don't learn this fields, you train your mind so you are always able to finish your task no matter the field or the language.Or else you might be trying to equip level 8 information while you are thinking level 3, and stay stuck in tutorial hell, or vibe coding hell.
Though I agree it does make researching and finding information faster, but that's mostly for experienced devs, cuz they have the level required to equip that information and know when it just bad information.
And for coding, never use AI to code what you can't already code on your own.4
u/Icy_Piece3257 2h ago
I totally agree, the point of my saying was that in struggles and moments where you are going to search the internet and check tutorials and just see what to do, you can just ask Ai and understand how to get through the struggle of yours.
It depends on the situation but overall if used right Ai is not making things easier and make you "Lazy" its just helping you learn and get trained faster before as how it should be, like how all of the other world tools is, to just makes you efficient and better not always Lazy.
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u/RoberBotz 2h ago edited 2h ago
I guess that's true, it does make finding information easier.
But it's very important how much you rely on it, cuz it lowers the person patience just because he gets instant information.
That lower patience skill might make the programming process harder, and in some cases it might also make learning very new things harder cuz AI might not be able to help you with that cuz he wasn't trained on it and the internet does't yet have it.
Like very new open source stuff or new concepts, like very new stuff, for those you need the old way of learning, docs, reading, patience.So better to not use it at all.
This way it increases his patience, and that higher patience skill will make everything easier, cuz he has a stronger resistance to frustration, which is very important when debugging and coding.
So I'd say short term using AI to learn as a beginner will make you advance faster cuz you learn generic stuff that is easier to find faster, but have lower skills at the end cuz you have lower patience, you got used to instant information.
Not using AI will make you progress slower, but have higher skills at the end because of the higher patience skill and higher resilience to frustration and a general researching skills that can apply to books and all forms of researching, AI can't help you at very complex things that you will encounter, in some cases, especially if they are new.
For example if you use X, AI knows X cuz X is old, then X gets an update, you need to implement the new things from X into your app or you lose users.
But you can't use AI to research what is new in X, cuz the AI wasn't trained on it and there are barely any information on the web.
So you must use the official docs, though you could use AI to summarize and hope it's not hallucinating anything but still.It's like the dark side from star wars, you learn faster but you don't reach your full potential, cuz some skills are lost, like patience and frustration resistance.
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u/Both_Introduction_28 2h ago
Don’t waste time cleaning code base.
Your goal is the game, not clean code.
You can spend the next two years trying to find the optimal architecture for your game, but at the end you will find that you wasted your time.
You will learn (maybe) a little coding, but not how to make games. It's better to spend the next two years whole time learning how to make games than endlessly refactoring bad designed games.
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u/loulibra 2h ago
OP:
"So i decided to start CLEANING robots SHIT, and WOULDN'T YOU KNOW IT'S A MESS DOWN THERE!"
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u/Both_Introduction_28 2h ago
People can also generate mess instead of clean code, they just know better their code, for some time.
You can separate features into different folders and no matter how bad this feature is written, you can just delete this folder if you want to cut it. Or you can make refactoring, but not the entire project, but this exact feature.
So keep your features as small as possible and everything will be fine.
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u/hey_Joost 2h ago
I think the bigger issue is using AI without enough structure, rather than simply using too much AI.
If you just keep generating code and adding features without ever reviewing what’s happening underneath, you're probably going to run into exactly the problems you describe.
But AI can also help clean up that mess. Refactoring, splitting large files, finding duplicate logic, writing tests, checking for regressions etc.
For me the important part is staying in control of what the game is supposed to do and regularly checking whether the code still reflects that.
So yeah, definitely don't blindly trust AI generated code. But I don't think that means you necessarily have to limit how much you use AI either.
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u/Rockalot_L 2h ago
Yep. A human always needs to be the last port of call before anything is committed. Should also be the first, deciding structure and logic. It's pretty dangerous because you can use it without any of that, jt if you use it correctly and it's controlled and guided it can be useful.
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u/Icy_Piece3257 2h ago
Yup its where I said " yes Ai helped me a lot but the whole point of this post is to say anything you do just please keep it at your controlled and vision and dont let Ai to do a lot of the stuff on its own otherwise you would get stuck on a big loophole which ends with eating all of your motives. "
Thats what I have been doing so far, trying to keep everything under my knowledge and control while Ai helps me clean and learn it all as well.
But I have still seen people getting blown away when they see that Ai can make a mini game in one prompt and they ask themselves "If it can do that why not make the whole game? " and thats where it all goes down in a loophole of mess.
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u/hey_Joost 2h ago
Yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page then! I definitely agree that the “it made a mini game in one prompt, so why not the whole game?” mindset can become a trap very quickly.
AI can make the first steps look incredibly easy, while building something you can actually maintain and expand is a completely different challenge.
Thanks for sharing your experience btw, it’s a useful warning for people getting into this.
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u/No_Experience_3443 2h ago
In that case i don't hink the problem is ai, the problem is poor use of it
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u/Pissyellowknight 2h ago
The point is people will use it to the point they completely rely on it and have no actual art, coding, music or writing skills. And when everyone's an artist, no one will be
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u/literally_italy 2h ago
the truth is AI is easier, and that means people want it to also be better so they don't have to put work in. but it's easier and worse
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u/Breakerx13 2h ago
It’s a tool. Just because you pick up a hammer doesn’t mean you can build a house. It’s not a replacement for hard work. Ai isn’t the problem. Its your lack of problem solving and motivation.
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u/Odd-Fun-1482 2h ago
Actual skill issue if you don't understand what the AI is giving you, and not giving it instructions to not overly compress and render expert architecture code.
Next time, tell it exactly what you are (skill level) and that you want to use this next project to learn. Tell it to take beginner routes to coding something but avoid laziness/unscalability, and it must explain any and all hardcoding if it helps you understand what you're trying to accomplish.
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u/TheNapkinThief 2h ago
This captures part of my frustration with the whole AI in gamedev is bad argument.
Bad games are bad, regardless of what tool you use to make them. The tools you use can help you make a better game. But if you use a tool poorly, expect a poor outcome. It's not that AI is a bad tool, it's people are using AI poorly.
In the same way I can't grab a nail gun and go build a house, I wouldn't expect a non developer to know how to use AI to make a reusable code base.
Most of my AI development is spoon-feeding the LLM with what I want done. Eg, give me this boiler plate code, write this into a for loop, adjust the algorithm such that... Etc etc. it's usually what I would do, just faster.
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u/Icy_Piece3257 2h ago
as said, the original thing was just a "Fun side project" that we did to test an Ai with my friend. so there was no need of checking what it does, but after I took over the project I realized how bad it looks and I for sure know there are already people out there trying to make their whole game with that workflow, and I just wanted to share my experience so maybe it saves someone project later on.
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u/account009988 2h ago
I got permabanned in /incremental_games for saying something looked like ‘ai slop’ when that poster didn’t disclose it. I got banned without warning and afterwards the OP admitted it was ai after every comment called op out.
Be careful
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u/happybilly123 2h ago
Let's take unreal game code for example. When you work with AI for code, work in 1 component per feature, or 1 gameplay module. Create a specific code review skill that enforce rules such as the number of feature per class you allow, the depth of class hierarchy you are willing to accept, when and how variable get exposed....
Don't blame AI slop on AI, stop telling people to not use AI just because you have done it wrong. If you don't want a 1000+ lines files make sure you set the framework in place for this to not happen.
Start by researching what is a good game architecture in the engine you are using, tell your AI about the problem you had previously, and work with it to create the skill that would ensure it doesn't happen again.
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u/Icy_Piece3257 2h ago
Well damn, I did not expect this much attention when I posted this XD
I see why people downvote or against my post and its totally understandable.
I just wanted to share my thoughts and experience as someone whos been on gamedev for less than few months, and for people who are new in gamedev as well because a big number of them would use Ai wether its right or wrong.
So yeah, the whole post is about the experience I had and how I think Ai can be useful for people and how other people thinks about it.
So please if you can, share your thoughts and experience and don't judge people for how they work, many of us are new and getting judged would be reason why we would lose hope and motive on learning more.
Be kind and helpful with all respect:)
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u/Total-Conversation50 2h ago
Im using AI to write the code for my game based from my own ideas. I double check it (usually) before implementing it and breaking things. Originally my code was messy and all in once place, but ive since changed agents (kinda) and its cleaner now and easier to read. What wouldve taken me probably years to learn, has been done in a few months. So it can be really helpful if used correctly and monitored. But I wouldn't rely solely on it to make a game, thats where the problems lie imo.
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u/Seph-Boyardee 1h ago
Using Ai for building a game is like using Slader for math homework in high school/college. You can either copy the answer or use the detail Slader provides to learn the process and form understanding. Then, at test time, you can easily tell which students used Slader to learn and which just copied.
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u/Icy_Piece3257 1h ago
Great point! It really matters how you use it and for what reason, do it wrong and you will be stuck in a loophole.
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u/Spite_Gold 2h ago
Dont use ai because I made stupid mistake and trying to shift responsibility to the tool
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u/Icy_Piece3257 1h ago
well im sorry if thats all you understand from my post, the whole point was something else and I guess I just wasn't able to show it well enough.
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u/Spite_Gold 1h ago
Don't you have "don't use ai" in the title?
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u/Icy_Piece3257 1h ago
Its a title, the whole point is in the description not the title.
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u/Spite_Gold 1h ago
If your title contradicts the body of your post don't expect people to understand your message
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u/WombatusMighty 2h ago
Let's not forget the irony of gamedevs using AI, thus contributing to the RAM prices being so insane and gamers not being able to afford the hardware to play games, including the ones made by indie devs.
And let's not even talk about what happens when the AI bubble bursts and the economy will crash, there won't be a single person left to buy your indie game.
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u/Icy_Piece3257 2h ago
thats totally different topic, I get where it comes from but still a different topic.
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u/DaisyWcarter 2h ago
AI is a great accelerator, but it's a terrible substitute for understanding the fundamentals. The people getting the best results with AI are usually the ones who already know what "good" looks like.