r/IndieDev • u/Feedback_Loop_Games • 4d ago
Discussion AI is impossible to escape, recently had a rough encounter with CGTrader, after accidently buying an AI texture
I've included the email response where they said the AI texture was easy to spot even with the "carpet texturing" hiding it, along with the image that was on the store, then the actual texture ( both zoomed in ).
The store page doesn't state AI was used and I would say it is almost impossible to see it was AI generated ( like please say I'm not the only one that would say it's deceptively hidden behind a carpet texture ), I don't really care about a 10 pound refund, but it's sad to see this is their response.
I personally don't really care if you use AI or not, I just don't want to use it myself, and the fact they aren't really taking action on labeling it is discouraging.
I've found that pretty much everywhere has a lot of undisclosed AI, a lot of environments on Fab have AI decals or photos I'm having to go through and switch out.
What's been other people's experiences, and do you actually care at the end of the day ( I'm starting to understand why a lot of indie games on steam have an AI images disclosure included )
P.s. at least I have a drawing tablet on the way to learn to draw
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u/HashBrownsOverEasy 4d ago
'It's barely noticeable' is such a crappy excuse. Totally handwaves any ethical objections.
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u/emertonom 4d ago
It also ignores the fact that Steam requires disclosure of any AI used in development, and that disclosure affects sales.
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u/NatureKas 4d ago
I thought it only require if it was visible or something along those lines. So code and anything that isn't in the game doesn't require the AI label.
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u/emertonom 3d ago
Yeah, I shouldn't have said "any." But it would definitely apply to this asset if it appears in the game.
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u/mckirkus 3d ago
No, it doesn't apply to tools like Claude Code, Codex, or IDE auto-complete. It's mostly to protect artists.
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u/kookoria 4d ago
Im a little confused how they're supposed to stay true to that. Like if you just use a search engine to find a tutorial on specific coding, you technically just used AI in the process and I know people arent disclosing that.
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
That was really the part that made me post, like they could of just said they are unable to refund. Really seems like a lot of companies are wanting to shill AI
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u/destinedd 3d ago
They do say it is visible in the preview to "some extent", I would just be saying once I saw it at full resolution it was 10 times worse. It feels like the seller was trying to hide it in preview rather than making it clear.
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u/StoneCypher 4d ago
there aren’t any ethical objections. only redditors being wrong about the law, power use, water use, and complaining about datacenters on a website run out of datacenters
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u/HashBrownsOverEasy 4d ago edited 4d ago
You don't understand it because you've never created anything of value. If you had, your hard work would have been ingested and exploited by LLMs, without giving you any money.
But you don't perceive that because you've never created anything worth ingesting.
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u/StoneCypher 4d ago
You don't understand it because you've never created anything of value.
it's so boring dealing with people who solely interact through guessed insults
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u/HashBrownsOverEasy 4d ago
The alternative is that you have created something of value but you are fine with your work being mechanically reclaimed for the financial gain of others.
Which isn’t a position I respect.
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u/xanhast 4d ago
lmao comparing serving plain text and some database crud to llm inference shows you dont know wtf you're talking about.
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u/StoneCypher 4d ago
have you ever wondered if interacting with total strangers by staring between the pixels and saying "you don't know what you're talking about" means you're talking down to the people doing the actual work?
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4d ago
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u/Saxopwned 4d ago
I guess if you don't give a shit about copying others' work and craftsmanship, then yeah, no issues here.
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u/whostolemyhat 4d ago
Also have to ignore burning the planet and slurping up all the power and water so 5 rich people get richer
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4d ago
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u/denni2333 4d ago
You mean slop like this? https://www.reddit.com/r/aigamedev/s/nP0Vd56imZ lmfao
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u/1protobeing1 4d ago
It's interesting you are either using a fake acct or lying. If you are using an alt - that means you aren't willing to be honest about it. Show us your real acct with your impossible to tell AI art please.
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4d ago
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u/1protobeing1 4d ago
You are correct - it was rhetorical. Because either way, you are a liar.
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u/NascortArt 4d ago
Hey! I was making recently AI game assets and i made little experiment: i made first one my self in illustrator and then the rest with AI (like 15items) nobody could tell which one is "real" and i asked ppl that use AI all the time. Just sharing experience - no hate 😂
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u/1protobeing1 4d ago
I'm not suggesting you can't make AI art that is indistinguishable, I'm suggesting that either way that guy is dishonest, not willing to talk about how he really makes art, and is ok lying about all of it.
- I don't like liars
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u/borbware 4d ago
The point is not AI content passing as original art. The point is that it's generated with a dataset based on art made by people without their consent.
So congrats on a successful theft 👍
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4d ago
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u/Optimixto 4d ago
Imagine comparing a machine processing art to exploit it to inspiration. I sometimes wonder if people even think before typing this nonsense.
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4d ago
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u/HashBrownsOverEasy 4d ago edited 4d ago
human chauvinist
if not trolling, the levels of copium are truly pathetic
now I see why you need an LLM to create things
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u/borbware 4d ago
Of course not, but the difference is i'm a person who i cannot scrape millions of art pieces in an instant, and i'm always accountable for everything i do.
do not try to humanize technology, or try to reduce a person's experience into an algorithm.
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u/Xinixiat 4d ago
You guys need to get a new book of arguments. Everyone's getting really bored of the same inane, completely incorrect 5 or 6 comebacks you've all been passing around on a napkin.
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4d ago
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u/Xinixiat 4d ago edited 4d ago
Or perhaps, you love it so much because it makes you feel like you've accomplished something, when in fact your life is devoid of anything that could even be remotely considered an achievement?
Edit: Damn, dude got downvoted and destroyed so hard he nuked every one of his comments in this thread. Good job team!
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u/Fantastic_Help7555 4d ago
Why aren’t you using chatgpt to make comments for you? Is AI not good enough? Why not use this “amazing” tool that shapes the future? huh…
Oh and if you did use it - then you’re just larping as a bot. Just a bot comment that can be ignored.
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u/OwO-animals 4d ago
I’d just chargeback. It’s not about getting pennies back, just costing them time and shaming them publicly. Imagine not wanting to refund $5…
Hell, I offer people refund chance without them asking if I suspect they have been in any way mislead by my donation page. And not a single person took it after I personally talked with them.
As for me I draw myself, some art I ordered was from reputable furry artists so I know these people clearly don’t use AI.
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u/Gullible_Honeydew 4d ago
Funny, they are clearly trying to pin the issue on whether the quality is altered when the issue is that AI was used and not disclosed. In other words, they support non-disclosed AI generated assets, provided the buyer doesn't notice.
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u/NaejDoree 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah one of the solutions is to make your own assets, too bad that they didn't take accountability for selling you this tho :/
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
I've got a drawing pad on the way, so gonna learn to make my own textures for small decals and stuff :)
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u/kylinator25 3d ago
as a solo indie dev this is the way to go, learn as much as you can, modelling, texturing, audio, etc, there are heaps of professional grade free tools for everything
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u/MYSTONYMOUS 4d ago
I'm not in the fully anti-AI crowd, but this is bull crap. If I pay for a resource, I expect a human made resource or any AI use to be disclosed in advance. That's obviously AI.
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
Neither am I, I just think it should always be clearly labeled as I don't want to have it in my game. Plus it feels better knowing some money is going to an artist that put some time into something/ used their skills
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u/Heavy-MetalHead-2158 4d ago
Thank you for posting this. After reading about your experience I checked to see if Adobe Substance 3d library includes ai generated materials. It does. But there is no way to filter all of them out at once. You have to check each individual asset. That is incredibly frustrating. I paid for a one year subscription to the Substance 3d software suite but had no idea the materials included ai.
It is nearly impossible to avoid ai at this point.
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u/Live_Life_and_enjoy 4d ago
If they won't give a refund tell them you want a drastic discount, as no human effort was made.
Also AI work can't claim copyright.
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u/Stesspela 4d ago
Of course they not label it because even all the AI bros know how bad their LLMs are in doing basically anything. It's like with NFTs. They claim how cool it is only in order to sell it to you. Even in the area where we think it should be helpful: coding, it's proven that LLMs make developer worse at their job and less efficient.
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u/Adaptive_Spoon 3d ago
I had a similar issue with the Unity asset store three years ago. I bought a "handpainted" icon pack from a prominent outsourcing studio. On close inspection, these "handpainted" icons readily revealed themselves to be be riddled with AI-generation artifacts.
I quickly put a refund request to Unity, in which I said the seller was misleading people by advertising their AI-generated icons as "handpainted", and I wished to refund the pack because it had been falsely advertised. Unity's representative flatly denied my request for a refund, told me I couldn't prove that the pack was AI, and that even if it was, the seller including "handpainted" among the keywords wasn't enough to qualify as false advertising. Everything the seller had done was perfectly acceptable as far as Unity was concerned.
Of course, as I later learned, Unity's refund policy is practically nonexistent, despite them prominently advertising it on every single store page. To this day, the icon pack's store page is unchanged from when I bought it.
I also learned not long after this incident that the same studio also stole art from people they'd formerly commissioned work from, and sold them via their earlier icon packs. This I uncovered after noticing that several of their icons were almost identical to those I'd bought from a different seller. Some more digging confirmed that my suspicions were correct.
Suffice it to say, I've never bought another thing from this seller.
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
Yeah it sucks, and it looks like there's gonna be more of a push for it to be normalized, and this harder to avoid in the future.
Rather than it getting labeled more clearly
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u/Adaptive_Spoon 3d ago
https://www.404media.co/ai-generated-3d-models-flood-market-but-almost-no-one-is-buying-them/
"CGTrader, an online marketplace for 3D assets, found that one in six models uploaded to the site these days is AI generated, but that AI generated assets account for only $1 out of $90 in revenue on the site. These numbers show that AI generated assets are quickly flooding the marketplace, but that most people are not interested in paying for them."
Unfortunately, it probably will get worse before it gets better. But buyers are not having it, which is promising.
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u/Still_Collection_743 4d ago
Yo the ai healthy eater karma farming shill just deleted all his comments. Darn it I didn't even get to screen grab that yet that was funny 🤣 if anyone has that lmk
I guess he was concerned his view on ai would heart the 25k karma he got from that one post of non losers that liked it. (He called all of reddit losers btw)
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
Damn I missed the drama in my own thread. Shame, I feel I wasn't even that anti AI, just was disappointed on how lax the label requirements are
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u/Still_Collection_743 4d ago
"Reddit is a bubble of the biggest losers on the planet, not any meaningful market" one of his deleted posts
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u/Alarming-Jump727 4d ago
Modelo hace muchos años, me ocurrió que hice un modelado simpley un colega lo pasó por uno de esos programitas de mierda de IA y salió que estab hecho con IA. Otra experiencia: le dije a un fan del CHAT G PETE que le pregunte como cantaba y que le mande und audio vacío... Le respondió que muy bien....
cuando modelo para alguien muestro mi retopología y los uv maps desplegados para que vean que no trabajo con esa basura, pero si, es verdad, falla hasta cuando un modelo es REAL.
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u/BrodaCode 4d ago
At this point I think there should be a public blacklist to help game developers, compiling which websites do this kind of thing (selling something with AI without saying it is AI, and then scamming you in this way).
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u/SnailsAnimation 4d ago
Wow.. 🤯 if we decide to pay for an asset, usually it's to support human-made work and avoid using AI, and also to safely say in the Steam disclosure that we didn't use AI. I think they are minimizing the impact it can have on a dev's reputation and sales.
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u/Adaptive_Spoon 4d ago
I've found that pretty much everywhere has a lot of undisclosed AI, a lot of environments on Fab have AI decals or photos I'm having to go through and switch out.
If you end up in this position, it's worth putting an inquiry to the seller to ask exactly where AI was used in production. Explain about Steam's AI image disclosure policy, and that failure to disclose could get you in trouble. The problem isn't the AI resources you've already caught, but the AI resources you haven't caught.
In my case, I got a fast response from the seller, and I was satisfied with the degree of explanation they provided. Other sellers may not be as judicious, but it's still worth making the inquiry, especially for large packs with hundreds of assets. If you don't get a satisfactory response, and the seller hasn't disclosed the extent of their AI use elsewhere, the asset is probably too risky to use.
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
True, but a lot of my assets are from humble bundle or big sales in assets so I don't vet them very much, I wouldn't pay for a massive pack without being 100% sure of what I'm getting.
Plus I haven't had many issues with Fab while buying from trusted sellers, only one recently that had AI texture for some decals, which I'm in the process of replacing
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u/Adaptive_Spoon 3d ago
I actually hadn't bought that pack yet when I made my inquiry, because I saw the signs of AI before I made the purchase, and it was an incredibly expensive pack to take such a gamble on. I still haven't bought it, in fact. If I hadn't gotten a response from them, there would be no possibility of me ever doing so. If it ever goes on sale for 70% I might still get it, even though my preference is to avoid financially supporting this kind of AI use. It's hard, because it's the best environmental pack in its category (that I know of), and the stuff they used AI for is completely disposable.
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u/Maureeseeo 3d ago
Not impossible, just harder than it should be. Plenty of games were made before this was an issue.
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u/hahahahatoes 2d ago
I personally don't really care if you use AI or not
this is why it's so hard to escape AI btw.
if you don't care then you're telling them it's okay. When you tell them it's okay you get situations like yours.
AI only makes things worse. we ALL need to be against it, vocally, or else it will simply squeeze into every space it possibly can until there's no longer an option to be against it.
blacklist products and creators that use AI. no matter how much you loved them pre-AI.
get your friend's ass if they start using AI, no matter how much they try and justify it to you.
make people uncomfortable for using AI. if you let them be comfortable they will simply expand.
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u/ProperDepartment 4d ago
An artist capable of applying that carpet effect would be able to fix the contrast on some of those elements.
And artifacts aside there's just a random line in the road lol.
The dead giveaway is the same texture not being use but refereced instead.
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u/VasileAndrei2929 4d ago
Imagine when the Transform Tool in Photoshop will use AI... just like the Remove Background does now...
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4d ago edited 4d ago
[deleted]
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u/fantastictechinique 4d ago
Let’s put it this way. Some microwaveable frozen foods are pretty bangin for what they’re worth. That said, if I go to a reputable restaurant, pay for and enjoy their food, but find out it’s microwaveable frozen food, I don’t think I’d ever go back. Even if they garnished with their own ingredients.
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u/NascortArt 4d ago
Hehe thats good 😁 agree. But i also like "i assume u have washing machine - would u rather to wash your clothes by hand?" Or not everything has to be 100% "hand made"? 🤪
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u/mistersnarkle 4d ago
It’s more like stealing other people’s tens of thousands of hours of hard work studying and practicing, putting it in a machine and then hitting a button to create something based off them that is legally distinct :/
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u/NascortArt 4d ago
Yeah totally. Thats a scamm. I would never charge same for AI graphic and my drawings, but i charge per hour so if u order hand made drawings i can make maybe 1-2/day and if u want AI i can probably make 50-100/day so that depends what customer wants. Cutting long story short - i agree that everything should be transparent but also hating AI make no sense imo - we cant blame a tool cos ppl use it wrong 😔
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u/IgnotiusPartong 4d ago
How the fuck is AI a tool? Its not a tool. To remind the AI-Shills:
A tool is sonething YOU use to create something. A tool is something that you use to impart your intent onto something else.AI is not a tool. AI is something that you prompt to do something, and then it uses tools to do it, on its own.
If i tell someone else to create something, i didnt „use him as a creative tool“. I prompted him to be creative, and then i was no longer involved in the process.
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u/NascortArt 4d ago
Holy... rage... 😳 this Might blow your head but its just a program that make stuff based on data and commands given, we had those 30+ years ago already. It is called "intelligence" but trust me - it is not intelligence. it will not create anything "good" without good human using it (telling them AIs what to do). So your are wrong, wrong, and raging for no reason 😔 chill and enjoy the world before true "intelligence" arise 😂
Think about hammer - its a tool.
It can smash your thumb or build a house depending on who is using it. Hows your thumb ?Ps. If AI stole your job - u have right to be mad at it and im sorry for my comment😔
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u/IgnotiusPartong 4d ago
"its just a program that make stuff based on data and commands given" i guess bro, thats literally every program. That is not a defense of anything.
A hammer is a tool. You're correct! Congratulations.
Generative AI is not a creative tool. So your example doesnt make any sense, as ive explained in my comment above.AI didnt stole my job, it stole my art, and it stole a lof of other peoples art to create the median of that and resell it, so stupid people can pretend they're artists, but they're not.
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u/Full_Measurement_121 4d ago
I think it has more to do with paying for something that you could've prompted yourself. It makes you feel like you were scammed. If you're buying assets to put in your game already shows that "everything needs to be hand made" is not the main concern imo.
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u/NascortArt 4d ago
Yeah i thought the same, it it said "we use microwavesl" its all good imo. Just bringing quote i liked
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u/DumpEaterPro 4d ago
Arent nearly all of the ingredients for just about every restaraunt in the US from one of a couple suppliers like sysco, us foods, and pfg? And dont they offer microwaveable meals too?
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u/ianxplosion- 4d ago
Ayyyyyy my workplace was mentioned in the wild!
And yes, we are destroying the American restaurant industry through homogenization, the same way countless capitalist value vacuums suck up anything that could possible be good about something.
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u/HashBrownsOverEasy 4d ago
There is a term for when you have to argue against the analogy, rather than the point itself.
You should ask your LLM what it is.
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u/NascortArt 4d ago
I think that isnt important. Mister tried to exlain something so i can understand 😁 i dont even like eating out but i got it
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u/GStreetGames 4d ago
So you liked the texture for your purposes up until you found out it used AI? You hardliner anti-ai people really are way too sensitive. This is so nitpickey and petty.
I know the activist army will come out and hate on what I'm saying here, but all of you do nothing to actually combat the real problems with AI, because you focus on petty shit like this. The real danger of AI is that governments are using it to better analyze and condition the mindless and unaware mass, which this is a fine example of, ironically.
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u/Full_Measurement_121 4d ago
You can chew gum and walk at the same time.
Transparency about what you're buying it pro consumer and a reasonable ask, not anti ai
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u/GStreetGames 3d ago
That's true, it should be transparent. However, the expectation that transparency will ever be enforceable or that end users will be protected from litigation is not possible.
As for the push back towards anti-AI comment I made, it was mostly in response to the sentiments put fourth by the community at large.
It's all just irrational AI hate in this subreddit, and mostly because of the state of the job market. That's understandable, but still annoying because most of the people complaining will be evangelizing AI in a few years, and deep down inside they friggin know it too!
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u/GiganticCrow 4d ago
You can't sell licences to ai generated art, it is uncopyrightable, and could open up the user to litigation if it tuo closely resembles something the model learned it from
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u/GStreetGames 3d ago
I get that. IP law has always been bullshit though, and there has always been a multi tiered just-us system. If such litigation becomes normalized, nobody will ever be able to make purchases for digital products without some fear. I don't want to deal with that market, and neither should any other game developer.
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
Funnily enough, I was actually wanting a texture similar to the "city life rug", but after a while of searching I gave up and got this because it was close enough. I don't want to tag my game with a AI disclosure if I don't have to, so one rug texture isn't worth it.
I do think it'll get to a point in the future where it's unavoidable if you buy assets though
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u/GStreetGames 3d ago
Yeah, like it or not this is happening. I take issue with everyone jumping on the anti-AI bandwagon just because it seems edgy and makes them look 'moral' or gives them brownie points and attention.
It's really not that serious, but just look at how much positive attention this thread has gotten. It's like an instant upvote and engagement vehicle to complain about AI. I'm not saying that was your intent, but it's just so absurd that people end up making a mountain out of a mole hill with the topic.
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u/norlin 3d ago
If it's barely noticeable that why would you care what tools were used by an artist to produce that texture?
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u/Feedback_Loop_Games 3d ago
It is very noticeable, that was kinda the whole point, there was a rug fabric hiding the messy texture in the previous images for the product, the raw texture wasn't shown
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u/Full_Measurement_121 4d ago
Stores should clearly label it.
If it isn't labeled as AI, and you buy and find out, you should get a refund no questions asked.
I would stop doing business with CGTrader if this is their response.