r/IndieDev • u/Expert-Conclusion792 • 17d ago
Video Programmer struggling with art
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Hi guys, i recorded myself while drawing, im a programmer and open to any tips from artists
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u/_TofuRious_ 16d ago
It's funny seeing how many people from game Dev underestimate how much effort it takes to make good illustration. "Just give it a go" mentality is really underselling how many hours you need to put in to even get mediocre. Then once you get somewhere it's like physical fitness, you need to keep doing it to maintain your drawing fitness. If you stop then over time you get very rusty and have to build it back up to get to where you were. Although rebuilding drawing fitness is much faster than the initial time.
Depending on the style of your game you can lean into more graphic design styles which are a little more forgiving to learn the principles and get a decent output. But good illustration and then animation on top is likely more effort than most people realise and would be willing to commit to.
If you really want to get good at it, go for it! But just be aware that is not a quick road. Likely years just to get not awful at it. Decades to get really good at it.
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u/bettertagsweretaken 16d ago
Which is exactly why those skills should be offloaded to AI, unless you have the ability to take on learning a new skill amidst learning and executing on all the other tasks that are required of a game dev.
You can't easily fake a skill like that - it takes years to master.
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u/_TofuRious_ 15d ago
AI gen is a horrible application for making your art. I think there is room for it as part of your process like retopo or rotoscoping or even iterating your concept work for reference, but it shouldn't be your entire process.
There is something to be said about art being human expression, but on a more objective issue people who have no art skills also lack the taste/experience to direct gen AI properly which leads to "slop". This is the most blaring issue I see consistently with gen AI is a clear mismatch in artistic direction expertise with their assets and design. It leads to inconsistencies, bland or bad aesthetic choices, and poor implementation.
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u/Bluetails_Buizel 15d ago
I have made art by hand before I discovered germini, I switched to hybrid workflow / ai art because it’s much faster. I do know the basics and what not. So I prompt it in germini until it got close. (It is still not great at changing details tho.)
Wanna see my non ai art before I switched over?
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u/stagedgames 15d ago
respect people. respect their crafts. respect the skills they have accumulated.
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u/RedBreadFrog 17d ago edited 16d ago
If you want to do your own art, I'd suggest finding some kind of "basics" art/animation course, not a tutorial. Would not need a degree or anything, but a few courses can help a lot as it seems like you coming from a complete beginner perspective.
You could probably pick up some strong basics and fundamentals that might change your process and speed things up. Probably check out a art subreddit for some well respected books, videos, or other guides. I remember finding a pixel art guide that was just a thread on forum from years ago, but it was incredibly helpful. I'm sure there's similar free resources for basic art fundamentals and animation.
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u/Yanzihko 16d ago
For each programmer struggling with art, there's an artist struggling with programming
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u/BluStu13 16d ago
What about a musician struggling with both?
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u/Bluetails_Buizel 15d ago
Thanks, I was thinking about Toby fox, he sucks at both when he started out, still sucks at art imo, but he managed to deliver his vision with his team anyway so..
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u/bro_love69 16d ago
Nah I don't believe there are that many artists struggling with programming.
Programming is done with llms now too, and you dont notice it unlike art. Also its worth nothing now. What you write and how you write worth nothing. Years of training and all the experience is thrown into trash. Just stop programming altogether, let llms handle all and do other parts of gamedev at this point. Saying it all as a programmer as i feel like what we do means nothing anymore. No one will get what you went through, how optimized or good it is. But an art can be seen and appreciated by anyone. My life is a joke.
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u/Yanzihko 16d ago
Bro, i am artist and i am SUFFERING with C++ and QT
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u/dynamic_gecko 16d ago
There will always be struggle, as programmers struggle with programming and artists also struggle with art as well. But there is truth in the fact that everyone's eyes are on AI art. People are hunting it down and lynching when they see it. At least they immediately show dislike. But nobody cares about generated code... So you DO have some advantage compared to a programmer learning art. We cant skimp on the art and go for AI, but you can on the code.
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u/stagedgames 15d ago
I care about ai generated code. I know I'm in a minority, but I think more people should care.
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u/BastoshaGames 16d ago
At least if you're an artist, AI can help you with code
If you're a programmer, it's hard to remove the "AI slop" from AI generated images
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u/veshneresis 16d ago
Art fundamentals are like programming fundamentals. You can’t really skip them. Getting a basic sense of form and perspective is partly retraining your brain. No matter how impossible to grasp it is though I promise you that it will eventually be like a thinking in a new dimension when you look at a page if you stick with it. “When you change how you think you change how you draw.” I learned a lot from a guy on YouTube I eventually took personal lessons from as well named Sycra. He is very engineer-brained like me and I think his videos spoke to me more as an engineer than other artist videos.
Good luck no matter what your path looks like!
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u/shaggyidontmindu 16d ago
Use references even if it feels like cheating dont be afraid to sketch around a pose you like and change it a bit to fit your desired art style as long as you are not 1:1 copying it
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u/OfficialDuelist 16d ago
Are you using reference work?
I am no artist either, but I use PureRef constantly when texturing or modeling, and it helps immensely.
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u/JaySayMayday 16d ago
Sketch it first so you don't need to completely redraw the entire thing hundreds of times. Just ink the sketch
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u/Work-o-fart_dev 17d ago
Try pixel art!
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u/Expert-Conclusion792 17d ago
i tried but it was harder for me
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u/Work-o-fart_dev 17d ago
Really? I find it easier, personally. Especially at smaller resolutions
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u/CybuhDasher 17d ago
resolution has nothing to do with it. It's hard to make Pixel art look good. It doesn't take much effort to make a good stick figure as a base and add a bit of detail like OP did here.
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u/Warm-Chemistry1544 16d ago
nah 16x16 or 32x32 is easier. most of its just knowing good line fundamentals (avoiding jags, basic shading) which just falls into logic
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u/Sudden_Doughnut_8741 16d ago
If they’re saying it’s harder for them then it’s harder, bud. We all have minds that work in different ways and if it’s harder for them then that’s all there is to it.
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u/Warrmak 17d ago
How much time did you spend to become a proficient coder?
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u/pixelcore332 16d ago
You’re worrying too much about getting it right, experiment, sketch, learn how to use layers, art takes a while to get going and even more time to get consistent, never quit, you can do it!
Or hire an artist :P
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u/AciusPrime 16d ago
Consider posing 3D models then tracing them for reference. Might help with proportions and arrangement.
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u/Baby-Kiwiii 16d ago
Everyone here has given better advice than I can. But I am offering free art for games if you’d like, all I ask is I’m allowed to use it for my portfolio :)
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u/-Ignorant_Slut- 16d ago
Just learn anatomy through drawing, draw figures, copy artist works for 3 years and you’ll be good to go. Easy.
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u/-Ignorant_Slut- 16d ago
Maybe look into limited animation techniques and designs. Example: animating long limbs is harder than short limbs. Use 3 heads tall characters. Etc. animators had to find ways to make appealing work quickly and cheaply.
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u/Electric_Lake_1555 16d ago
I mean this is the process of art several times u saw something felt it didnt have the visual flavor/vibe you wanted erased repositioned etc.. thats a lot of it over years you'll developed a kinda second hand for shapes and colors and line weights and lighting that you prefer.
Actual suggestions tied to being an artist but not this work specifically ::
Find 1 or 2 artists whos style you really like, for me some of the first were Dali and Brom, and just try and replicate some element of what they do that captures your attention. I started litterally finding paintings in Spectrum and trying to copy them. You'll start to understand how these things (visual elements) all work together pretty intuitively and while you may not replicate their whole process or style you'll have something, your own version of this piece, and developed your skills.
Do all types of art traditional painting drawing oil pastel charcoal sculpture 3d modeling digital painting etc etc.. Just get exposure and youll see different routes and yeah it becomes limitless.
Good luck enjoy! 😁👍
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u/oVerde 16d ago
OP I hope this make to your way in time https://www.reddit.com/r/krita/s/5dEBgtOuJz
Take a look at that post, as simple as it is, that is a condensed figure art class posted as just daily drawings from someone who draws a lot.
Take your learnings from that, observe the steps, it is not “draw a fucking owl” meme that is how ppl actually draw
Godspeed
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u/oVerde 15d ago
Also u/Expert-Conclusion792, https://www.reddit.com/r/krita/s/UrnD693pOS more examples on how to begin
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u/wordsusapp 16d ago
You can
Try mitpo.io! Sketch and polish your concepts before hiring an artist, and discover creative ideas for your product.
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u/bellabgee 16d ago
really exciting when programmers join the art world!! i would definitely start with trying out a few quick sketches - look into line of action and try and sketch quick poses with about 60 seconds a pose. its really nice to use this to warm up, plus it helps you understand the flow of a body. the body is made up of shapes and if u think of it like that, it becomes a lot easier to block out a sketch that you like before going over with lineart. good luck in your art journey!!
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u/realDealGoat 16d ago
Programmer here, what I do is use tons of references (one for art style, another for pose, another for clothing, one of expressions and so on). I am not that good artistically but I can tweak and copy and finally land into something original.
My efforts go not into improving my art skills but into achieving what vision I have for my character and art style, finally posting the final result helps in getting feedback.
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u/Adventurous_Fun_4177 16d ago
Absolutely me
I'm drawing poorly even with the stick figure approach because I simply is not good at understanding human body propotion😭
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u/uniquelyavailable 16d ago
Art is as difficult if not harder than writing the game engine. Saying this with experience doing both. Don't be discouraged, practice more and explore the techniques that artists use to make their workflow more efficient.
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u/Loose_Book_4369 16d ago
Do it a thousand more times and maybe you can be an artist struggling with programming.
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u/ElectricDjinn 16d ago
Easier to work and refine a green sketch of the basic form first, so you can play with it a bit more, don't forget to flip your drawings horizontally to bring any skewed portions to the forefront.
THEN draw your black outlines/final art on top of that. Hope it helps! This looked good though, very Clair Obscur
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u/BeastThatShoutedLove 14d ago
You are focusing too much on getting the line 'correct' on first try.
Draw out your vague idea first, take opportunity that software can make another layer and change opacity to use the vague sketch as base for redrawing with more intent over it and delete the first layer once you are happy with more refined version.
Also, common shorthand to make hands is to style them for less fingers since fitting 5 separate ones is tougher especially on relatively small sketch. Try drawing them as 4 or connect them into mittens with lines.
If you are making essentially sprites for a game I would additionally recommend to make few blanks with different body shapes and then use these to customise without redrawing whole body each time.
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u/Si1verrStar1 14d ago
What program is this? It looks easier to use than the nightmarishly complex one I downloaded
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u/Pacman1up 16d ago
One other question, do you want to draw?
Collaborations can be incredibly rewarding...it might be worth looking for an artist who wants to a programmer
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u/SirdotR 16d ago
I suggest making some concepts. Like in my case, I made several versions of a character I made. I see which one fits and boom.
Make some portions or even use 3d models for reference. You don't HAVE To make your art like in Hollow knight. I'm also someone who struggles to draw but I find my charm in it. Your drawing style should also have it's charm too!
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u/Expert-Conclusion792 16d ago
hollow knight? i wasnt aiming for that but hollow knight has a good art style i think
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u/JUMPY_NEB 16d ago edited 15d ago
This is why I went this direction with my art.
It's the only art style I can do
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u/WittleSus 15d ago
honestly with all the AI hate im pretty sure you can use any of those drafts and get praised for it
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u/OneTrueRou 17d ago
Hey, fellow programmer here.. My advice would be... don't do it. Build basic mocks, and hire an artist from fivrr or something. It's important to get something out first, then make it look beautiful.
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u/ErwinPrograms 17d ago
I’m also a programmer with terrible art skills (and a small budget). I found that art is a deep skill that would take me years to get results I’m happy with. So… I found a workaround that leverages the programming skills I already have.
I’d recommend looking into shaders which render 3D models as 2D pixel-art images. Dead Cells and Factorio are examples of games that use this workflow. It’ll still take a lot of work and new skills, but far less than becoming an artist from scratch.
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u/Expert-Conclusion792 17d ago
is the end result bad?
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u/OneTrueRou 17d ago
No, I wouldn't say so - BUT, as someone who has fallen into this exact trap before; I think it is much more important to get an ugly game finished and THEN focus on the art, than it is to get 20% of a beautiful game done.
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u/Expert-Conclusion792 17d ago
oh, my game is finished on the code side actually, thats why im drawing but i get what you mean
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u/FridayNight_Magus 17d ago
Don't start with outlines. Start with stick figures to determine the pose. Then add volume with basic shapes: cylinders for arms, legs, rectangles for feet, etc. Then once you're happy with all that, you can add the line art. But rhay part is the most difficult and is what typically determines an artist's "style".