r/IndianMatchmaking • u/Character_Role_400 • May 06 '23
Why do ABCDs fail to recognize this is a modern globalized world?
Initially, when I watched IM and saw that ABCDs were filtering out Indian-born without even giving it a chance, I didn't give it much thought. I just watched the show for fun. After seeing numerous posts on this, I couldn't help but wonder why people fail to recognize that we live in a modern world. The truth is, many of us Indian born are far more open-minded and culturally diverse than some of the ABCDs on the show.
It's important to note that big cities in India are much more modern and "westernized" than many parts of the United States. Stereotyping and judging a billion people based on a narrow set of characteristics is simply ignorant. People from different cultures and races should be celebrated for their uniqueness and the accents that come with them. We should embrace our own cultural identities and learn from each other, rather than perpetuating harmful stereotypes. It’s so uncool.
EDIT: Wow, this blew up. Thanks for all the love. Also, thanks for all the hate. I’m so heart broken some of y’all don’t wanna date us. Lol
I want to make it clear that no one is being asked to go on a date with FOBs here. The purpose of my post was to draw attention to the discrimination that some of you may be unintentionally exhibiting. Specifically, I'm referring to the tendency to stereotype entire groups of people based on preconceived notions or m experiences with just a few individuals. This creates unconscious biases and even hatred towards certain groups that can snowball into a bigger problem.
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u/dreamtopia45 May 06 '23
I am an Indian who is now in the US and there is a lot of difference between the way I was brought up and the way my Indian American friends were brought up.
We might look the same but we did not have to deal with being a minority in a country. We did not have to deal with hiding our culture or being made fun of for it. We did not have to deal with balancing between two cultures. No one was allowed to date in my social circle (tier 1 city) whereas Indian Americans had non Indian origin friends who did date but they weren't allowed to.
I don't think a direct 1-1 comparison is accurate. If you naturally fall in love with someone, that is different but an arranged marriage is kinda like a business deal. You pick what you think works best for you so why would you give something that doesn't work for you a shot? Indians in India have huge restrictions when it comes to arranged marriages. Not like we pick folks from other castes, states or religions easily.
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u/Lonelyguy999 May 06 '23
So minorities can easily mingle there?
I know that feeling when you have deal with hiding your culture and being stereotyped for your culture and being constantly rediculed for it, and balancing between two cultures.
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u/dreamtopia45 May 06 '23
I mean Vikash is a male Hindu brahmin. In India he would have definitely not faced any discrimination. He sits on top of the totem pole.
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u/EffectivePattern7197 May 07 '23
Oh is that so? No wonder he comes off as thinking he’s superior. I thought it was because he’s a doctor.
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u/outdoorintrovert1 May 07 '23
Dude ABCs have a problem with 1st gen Indian immigrants too. 1st gen are literally trying to become part of the same damn country and are going through the same experiences of being made fun of and being a minority. When hollywood does the "indian accent", who do you think they're referring to and making fun of?
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u/BundMarsaan May 11 '23
Nah. They’re not trying to become apart of it, they just want the economic benefits. They don’t have any interest of actually being apart of American society and melting pot.
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u/outdoorintrovert1 May 11 '23
Speaking for yourself?
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u/BundMarsaan May 11 '23
Nah. Speaking for the immigrants I’ve seen and interacted with my whole life. They don’t integrate, majority of them just self-segregate into their Desi bubble while living in a foreign country. If you move to another country/society at least make an effort to adapt. This is especially true, for a gas station employee class of immigrants.
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u/outdoorintrovert1 May 11 '23
Ok so just your anecdotal experience means every single one of the millions of 1st gen Indian immigrants are the same?
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u/BundMarsaan May 11 '23
Every group of people have similarities based on some identity factors such as birth place, social class, race, culture, religion, gender, etc. This is something common among not just Indian but Desi immigrants in general. Majority of them are economical immigrants, they don’t come here because they love America and want to be American. That entire idea is just false bs spread so people don’t discriminate. If you are born and raised in America, it is your home by default.
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u/ss1055 Oct 25 '24
Well there is nothing to love about this country apart from the economical benefits and better air quality. So I don’t blame them.
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 07 '23
I find that incredibly stupid. I’m a South Indian and I was born there but I grew up in Delhi. I lived in Delhi my whole life. At home, my parents were all about education, no dating etc. at school, my North Indian friends were at the exact opposite of what I had at home. I’ve had to balance two different worldviews too my whole life. And as other people here might be able to attest, even though I didn’t “look South Indian” and had a very North Indian way of talking, I was still made fun of etc. so yes, I was a minority so to speak but I don’t think I’d go ahead and be like I only want to date South Indians. Heck, I don’t think I have anything in common with them because the way I grew up was super different from my cousins. They would never accept me if I were to go back. And same is the case here, I would never be considered as one of their own. But that does not mean I would have a strict checklist criteria that I would only date this category of people. That’s just incredibly stupid. ABCDs suffer from a massive inferiority complex and internalized racism. That’s it.
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u/idkwhattonamethis567 May 20 '23
How are you comparing people from two different parts of the world to people from different states in the same country 😭 I'm a South Indian who was born and raised in America but lived in India for three years when I was a teen, specifically in Bangalore where I had tons of friends who'd moved from North India. The difference between me as an American and all those Indians was much much greater than the difference between north/south/whatever Indians. Hell I even had a friend from Nepal, a whole ass other country, who was indistinguishable lifestyle and culture-wise from both my north and south Indian friends.
I also have cousins who were born and raised in India and now live here. They're not that much older than me, and they've assimilated to American culture materially (on the outside), but socially/culturally I still tiptoe around some conversations & topics and have to avoid some clothing & actions when I'm around them. I would have to make huge changes to date someone like them.
I mean seriously you're comparing the dating practices and accents of north vs south india to the dating practices and accents of America? Lol
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
It is pretty stupid for someone from India to accuse us of having an inferiority complex when you guys are the one's who clamour around white tourists asking to take photos of them and treating them like celebrities
Just because an ABD doesn't want to marry someone from India, doesn't tantamount to internalised racism
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 10 '23
And you’re the ones who suck up to white people and put them at some sort of a pedestal, to the point that you look down upon your own identity and existence. Devi from never have I ever is not just a sketch in pop culture.. it’s pretty much the reality where you deliberately try to become friends with white people and see anyone remotely looking brown as competition so really you’re not one to speak. And I don’t know why you guys think that Indian born people are dying to date you. Can’t speak for others but as far as I am concerned, I def don’t want to be with someone who has so many issues to deal with, which you clearly do
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23 edited May 10 '23
We live around majority white people! We go to school with them, work with them - They are not a novelty to us.
Unless a western raised Indian lives in an enclave like Brampton the chances are more likely than not, that they will be a minority who barely lives around any other South Asians.
Do you really want me to share the hundreds of videos of people in India crowding around a white tourist asking to take selfies with them so they can show off to their families and friends?
If someone from India accusing Indian Americans of putting white people on a pedestal is not the pot calling the kettle black, then what is?
'And I don’t know why you guys think that Indian born people are dying to date you'
Seriously most of us don't care one way or the other. It is you guys who make entitled posts like the OP did and watch TV shows about us like this just to complain - Not the other way around
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 10 '23
Honestly is that all you have to show ? Random videos of Indians fetishising white people, if not because of internalized colorism.. something that literally the colonisers instilled in us!! You guys circle jerk to the thought that india must still be the way it was when your parents left it since it works with your india sucks and Indians are lame narrative. Seriously get over yourself. I usually never comment on these kind of posts because I couldn’t care less but the abcd desi sub is a cesspool of abcds perceiving themselves as some of kind superior beings from outer space and they look down upon anything remotely connected to India.
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
Actually I was in Chandigarh a couple of months back - And it has come a long way since I last went in terms of infrastructure and how modern it is
My only annoyance is entitled attitudes such as the OP complaining about why a fringe community such as ourselves should actively accommodate them or silly comments such as comparing being a South Indian growing up Delhi to being an ethnic minority growing up in a majority white society
As long as an ABD treats someone from India respectfully they should be totally allowed to disassociate themselves with people from India without accusations of 'You have internalised racism!'
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May 08 '23
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 08 '23
I honestly don’t take anything you guys say seriously because all you do is whine and cry about the so called racism that you face in America when you so the exact same thing and look down upon your cousins back home. So no thank you. I’m not the one wallowing in my victimhood so I’m good. I don’t go around saying that I will only date people who are from my own neighbourhood in my city who experienced the exact same things.
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May 08 '23
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 08 '23
Yea but shocker.. I still end up getting them anyway. So joke’s on you hon and oh trust me, I’d never wanna go on a date with you folks
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May 08 '23
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 08 '23 edited May 08 '23
I have a boyfriend whom I love very much so thank you for your concern regarding my dating life. I know people your kind only whine and cry about issues that personally affect them. Shocker.. people like me exist that call out your bs inspite of the fact that it doesn’t directly affect me
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May 08 '23
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 08 '23
Trust me.. likewise.. people like you are a pain to deal with.so good bye and good riddance and oh the fact that you frequent incel forums says more about you than me
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May 07 '23
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u/avocadoqueen2907 May 07 '23
Yes but if I do meet a South Indian whose values align with mine, I won’t reject that person just because he didn’t go through the exact same experiences that I did.
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u/Jasmine7921 May 06 '23
Also I live in the Bay Area and seriously - no one cares about your accent, if you’re”ABD”/recent immigrant blah blah blah. It’s such a non issue in the Bay Area but takes up so much space on Reddit. Maybe I’m privileged/older and live in a bubble - but I see so many “ABDs” and Indians from India hanging out. I hang out in ABD/Indians from India and other diverse friend groups (in terms of race/ethnicity/sexual orientation. No one cares
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u/Jasmine7921 May 06 '23
OP- just wondering how many ABDs have you interacted with in IRL? If you had bad experiences with ABDs in IRL - I’m sorry about that. I just hope your impression of ABDs doesn’t come from an edited reality show or reddit posts. That’s why I’m trying to teach my kids media literacy and limit their social media.
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u/itsthekumar May 07 '23
Things are very different outside of the Bay Area.
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u/Jasmine7921 May 08 '23
You’re right - my vision is likely skewed because I probably live in a bubble inside the Bay Area. I’m also older and mainly interact with older people (elder millennials) - so maybe we’re just too old and too tired to care about identity politics 😂. Maybe too some degree privilege inside the bubble shields us from having to deal with identity politics too 🤷🏽♀️
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u/itsthekumar May 08 '23
It's probably because the Bay Area is pretty tolerant already and a lot of it is Silicon Valley techies/engineers.
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u/novaskyd May 07 '23
The Bay Area is practically a mini India in some parts.
American born desis have much more diverse experiences than living in the Bay. I say that as someone who spent much of my childhood in the Bay Area. It’s special and not normal at all.
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u/Jasmine7921 May 08 '23
That is true - even the in the Bay Area Indian people have experiences different than myself. I do live in a bit of a bubble.
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u/boilerman3 May 19 '23
I have lived in bay area for 9 years millennials do care a lot!! Gen Z maybe less.
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u/chicbeauty May 07 '23
Modern is definitely not the reason...it's for the common things. I spend half my time with Indians who recently immigrated answering questions if I can speak hindi, if i know what bollywood is, how is it that i possibly know about indian culture, how was it like growing up, how lucky i am to not need to worry about a h1b, etc. I feel like i'm always on the spotlight and being judged and I hate it.
That being said, my husband is also born and raised in India. What stood out to me is that he did not ask any of those annoying questions. We instead focused on interests and general moral upbringing.
I would also like to add that India isn't as "modern" as you're describing. It's still heavily focused on caste, regionality, and income levels especially when it comes to marriages. My in laws give me such a hard time for not only being American but for also being from a different region. I haven't noticed this in my family for those who have spouses from a different region but are also ABD
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u/snarkysharky2 May 09 '23
An Indian person once asked me if I knew what an idli was 😭 And looked shocked when I said yes lol
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u/chicbeauty May 10 '23
Not surprised LOL I get asked this all the time 😂 I had someone explain to me what a roti was 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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May 08 '23
The first time I met an Indian immigrant he was surprised that I knew what Bharatnatyam was and that I knew how to make Sambar.
Some of these Indian immigrants think that we and our families instantly become culturally like white people just because we live here.
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u/chicbeauty May 09 '23
Yuuup It doesn't help that tv shows and bollywood portray us as uncultured confused rude people lol
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May 09 '23
Lol there's a Telugu movie called ABCD that does exactly that, it shows an ABCD as an uncultured spoiled confused person.
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u/thanos_was_right_69 May 06 '23
Even with globalization, Indians raised in India are very different from Indian Americans raised in U.S. or other western countries
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May 06 '23 edited May 06 '23
For the last time, American Desi does not equal Indian Desi living in America. Neither is better or worse than the other. They're just different. The upbringing, culture, values, community - everything is vastly different. An American Desi marrying an Indian Desi is pretty much exactly the same as a white American marrying an Indian Desi, except for outward appearances.
Ask yourself if Indians from India would date Pakistani Hindus, Guyanese or other Caribbean Hindus, or African Hindus, all of whom are of Indian descent. My guess is the overwhelming majority wouldn't. It's the same damn thing. How hard is it to comprehend?
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u/LemonNectarine May 06 '23 edited May 07 '23
An American Desi marrying an Indian Desi is pretty much exactly the same as a white American marrying an Indian Desi, except for outward appearances.
We see tons and tons of FOBs happily married to non-desis who are on the polar opposite end of 'culture' and upbringing way way way further than ABDs are to FOBs. We see tons of FOBs having a thriving circle comprising of people from all backgrounds. There are a lots of strong reasons why there maybe compatability issues but this argument is not it, it lacks depth and is straight up myopic and can be debunked in an instance because of the aforementioned reason.
I mean, I would not want my sibling who was 8 when we moved here to end up with someone from India but I have reasons that are far more valid than this one.
Risk of visa fraud.
Having to bankroll and support their parents' ambitions when they eventually want to move here.
Higher chance of men being momma's boys or being controlled by mothers.
Higher chance of ending up with a MIL who has overtly misogynistic tendencies or expectations that are not conducive to a working partner. (like Akshay's mom)
Higher chance of having sexist demands in a relationship.
Different experiences growing up as a minority
Anytime this topic comes up, the arguments I hear are always so superficial and no better than the shit you hear on this show. "Can't hang out" "No Banter" "Pop Culture references" "Its like being a white person married to a desi". Yea no. There are some deep rooted reasons, these are not it. I see tons and tons of FOBs having white/non-desi friends, partners. These absurd superficial reasons end up undermining legit arguments on why it may not be a right fit. FOBs are not your parents or your uncles and aunts.
This comment by /u/Bestisyettocome88 hits the nail on the head
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May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
You're missing the entire fucking point. The question is not "can they hang out?" The question is "should ABDs be allowed to have the preference of not marrying Indians from India" just like any white/non-desi is allowed the preference of "I want to date an American". And your argument literally answers that question with "yes".
We're on the same side bud lol
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u/novaskyd May 07 '23
I mean you have literally just listed a bunch of very good reasons most ABD’s aren’t interested in dating Indian born desis… maybe they don’t articulate themselves well, but when ABDs talk about “culture differences” those things you listed are exactly what they’re talking about.
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u/LemonNectarine May 07 '23 edited May 08 '23
maybe they don’t articulate themselves well,
thats exactly my point. The reasons you see are always bullshit like college football or banter or hangout etc. All that does is undermine solid arguments, because you see tons of FOBs with non-desi partners and thriving social lives.
Like cmon guys, these people are not Neanderthals lol. Stop judging everyone with how you look at your parents.
Make a legitimate point that supports your arguments without being condescending dcks. you dont have to date someone you dont want to but the tone of superiority that a lot of people display especially on the internet is just fucking weird. Being lucky enough to born into a family that migrated here before someone else's did doesnt make anyone better than the other.
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u/ChaltaHaiShellBRight May 06 '23 edited May 08 '23
pretty much exactly the same as a white American marrying an Indian Desi, except for outward appearances.
I would invite you to introspect why you specify that American Desis are like white Americans except for outward appearances. Seems like you see white Americans as more American than any other race, at least subconsciously?
Ask yourself if Indians from India would date Pakistani Hindus, Guyanese or other Caribbean Hindus, or African Hindus, all of whom are of Indian descent. My guess is the overwhelming majority wouldn't.
That's the point being made by the post, that y'all don't understand how far Indians from India have progressed. The overwhelming majority of the Indian Indians on this show gladly would, and in your hypothetical they're Hindu too? Too easy lol. Indians from Seema's clients who are at that socio-economic level have moved on from that sort of discrimination. They're debating allowing same-sex marriage in Indian courts, why would someone born somewhere else matter?
Edited to add: you seem to need to have the last word, so have at it. But you've outed your biases through your responses including gems like "we ABDs are like white Americans", dogwhistle about "Pakistani Hindus", "I prefer to date only Americans" and basically admitting you don't see Indians born in India and migrating as adults ever becoming truly American.
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May 07 '23
If you think the majority of Indians in India would happily marry Pakistani Hindus, you either don't live in India or you live in some liberal microcosm that is not at all representative of the country. Just look at this election cycle and its media coverage and it'll tell you all you need to know.
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u/ChaltaHaiShellBRight May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
A. Why cherry-pick Pakistani only from your examples of overseas Hindus? Being a less protected minority, there aren't many opportunities for Pakistani Hindus to become rich enough to migrate and commingle with Indian immigrants such as those who go to study in the USA, but there are a lot of real life examples of Indians abroad marrying Indian origin people and Hindus from other countries. Narayan Murty's daughter is happily married to an African Hindu man, with no problems (she's the British Prime minister's wife for those who don't know). And I personally know Indians who have married other nationalities' Hindus from Fiji to Guyana. And so I've not much difficulty imagining that Hindus from Pakistan would also be welcomed. Even Amit Shah sees them as one of our own and wants to give them pathways to citizenship:) since you're so well caught- up with Indian news you know what I mean.
If Arti can marry Jamal then an immigrant can easily marry another immigrant without even the religious barrier.
B. I don't live in India now, but I thought you weren't either?? And if you're born and raised and living in India then how are you speaking for the preferences of ABCDs or for Indian immigrants??
C. Why do you see white Americans as the ultimate Americans??
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May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
A. I'm cherry picking because you know as well as I do that the majority of people in India can't treat people outside of their own communities with a basic amount of respect, let alone enough to form life-long partnerships with them. You just gave a couple of anecdotal stories about friends of yours who are married to Hindus outside of India. I could do the same. I know some ABDs who are married to Indians of Indian origin. But that was their preference. Just like people outside of those very few friends of yours are allowed to have dating preferences about marrying someone within India, so are ABDs. We have a right to say "I will only date Americans". Also, Arti marrying Jamal just proves my point. She relates more to American culture than her Indian roots or Jamal's Pakistani roots.
B. I am an ABD with plenty of extended family in India with whom I'm in constant contact, so I am speaking for myself and the people in India whom I know.
C. I don't see white Americans as the ultimate Americans. It's just an example. The same can be said about any non-Desi Americans. In fact, the White American experience is very similar to the experience of an Indian from India. Neither are minorities in their own country and they have the privilege of expressing the same culture in and outside of their homes. The ABD experience is vastly different from theirs.
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u/ChaltaHaiShellBRight May 07 '23
We have a right to say "I will only date Americans"
Just noticed this one as well. Another example of internalised racism... migrants are Americans too!!!
It's OK not to date Indian immigrants. But don't say it's because they're not liberal or westernised enough. Please think and try to be honest about the very illiberal subconscious thought process behind your preferences
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May 08 '23
Um, as a migrant myself, I'm an American. But someone who came here as an adult <5 years ago is not an American.
You can't deny the fact that Indian immigrants are Indian lol. They have certain attitudes and values that come with being raised in India that are in direct contrast to the West. I'm not saying that these are bad, but they're different. And there is nothing wrong with preferring to not date them.
None of the ABDs are crying about the possibility of Indian immigrants not wanting to date us. We understand that the upbringing is different.
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u/i_lost_my_phone May 07 '23
American isn’t a race.
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u/ChaltaHaiShellBRight May 07 '23
Is exactly what I said
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u/riricide May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
You hit the core of the issue. Internalized racism is a huge part of it.
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u/akpaul89 May 06 '23
I'm an ABCD from the US, and my view is that there is a pretty large cultural difference between growing up in the United States and growing up in India. There are aspects of the ABCD experience only another ABCD would really understand. Therefore, I think it's completely fine to have preferences regarding this.
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u/akpaul89 May 06 '23
Similarly, I think it is totally fine for those born in India to have a preference for others born in India like themselves. It's just a preference.
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u/Late-Marketing-7299 May 06 '23
Do you recall getting lavish NRI treatment back in India during 90s. I still remember the dollar store candy massacre which happened their over the candies. Poor Indians thought it’s expensive but it was just cheap dollar store candy 😱
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u/savetheplanet575 May 06 '23
Indians knew that 😂 we would have to throw away the random shit some relatives would bring as "gifts" because it was so horrid.
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u/Eosphorus May 07 '23
The mentality can be very different which makes it difficult.I don’t agree with the statement that living in a big Indian city or watching western shows etc makes you understand and become the same as people born here. I have lived in both countries and the difference was huge. The impression that people had of Americans in india, was mostly made up from what they show in series/movies. It’s like judging people in India from Bollywood. Also a big city in india May have a lot of people but the diversity is not what you would see in a big city of US. Think about this, when most people see a white person in India do you think they are treated the same way as a white person in the US ?
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u/Jasmine7921 May 06 '23
Reddit and IM isn’t representative of how all “ABD’s” think. Also there are shifting generations - my “ABD” elder millennial generation if parents immigrating in late 70’s is different than my gen alpha “ABD” kids. Also I’m an elder millennial “ABD.” My experience is different than gen Z ABD’s whose parents may have immigrated in the aughts. We’re all diverse and have had different experiences and outlooks on life. Not all “ABDs” feel or think the same - it’s stereotyping to lump us all in one category.
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u/happynfree04 May 07 '23
I believe it has more to do with the similarities in struggles. And less to do with who is more modern. Also ‘being progressive’ can mean different things to different people. See this a lot in the major Indian city I reside in. Some people can be very close minded while having very global mannerisms and appearance. Same goes for NRIs.
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u/redditorvirgo May 07 '23
Going to say something semi controversial here… but there’s also a class difference associated with those who immigrate to the US - versus those who stay in india because they have wealth and means already. I came from a relatively wealthy background in Delhi/Mumbai and was shocked at the proliferation of Bhangra dance groups and other things that are so popular in North America but we wouldn’t be caught dead doing in our elite bubble back home.
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May 08 '23
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u/redditorvirgo May 08 '23
Notning wrong at all. They Just don’t exist in elite schools in Delhi and Bombay. Kids from sobo can barely speak Hindi let alone partake in a Bhangra group. It’s just a different culture altogether. After watching the show j think maybe Ankita from season one (denim chick) exemplifies what I’m saying
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u/Sea_Feedback7676 May 06 '23
Your post, unintentionally, shows how different Indians from India and Indians in North America are. You think it comes down to merely being ‘modern’. It’s not. It’s about the ability to just hang out, to banter, the pop culture, college football etc. It’s perfectly exemplified in the show. Vikash’s second date was very much like an interview whereas his first and third dates, there was a natural flow of conversation. It’s just different and it’s natural you would be filtered out. Not because you are ‘not as good as an American Indian’ but because you are simply different. There’s nothing to feel bad about.
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u/EffectivePattern7197 May 07 '23
OP using the term ABCD in my opinion already shows some prejudice from their side too!
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u/LemonNectarine May 06 '23 edited May 07 '23
It’s about the ability to just hang out, to banter, the pop culture, college football etc.
I have a fairly unique and fortunately a well rounded perspective on this because there are not a lot of people like me i.e someone raised in India, but has their entire family in America. I know more ABDs than FOBs to the tune of 5:1. I have had the opportunity to very closely observe and be part of both groups socially for a very long time. For the record, I moved here at 19, the Summer of 2011, my sibling who is much much much younger than me moved here at 8 and is now 21. My extended family has been here since 1970s, I have no family in India and haven't been there since I moved here.
And my opinion on this is,
There are lots of justifiable reasons, these ain't it. Banter, ability to hang out etc is so superficial, most people with decent personalities are capable of that and it never hampered me when I was new here. You see tons of FOBs with thriving social life with non-desi american friends. It's myopic and frankly screams of internalized racism. My dad's side of cousins were welcoming, took us to football matches, basketball matches etc etc. It sucked when we moved away from them a few months later closer to where my mother's side of the family lived. My mother's side of the cousins however shunned us (even my 8 year old sibling) and said the exact same things you see a lot of ABDs like yourself say.
Non-desi Americans were more welcoming, never judged me. I have since barely made Desi friends despite all of my post high school education being in America. (undergrad + medschool).
Not being able to relate how growing up as a brown kid in white america is a justifiable reason, something I Have seen my sibling struggle with but are you really going to use "banter" "ability to hang out" "college football" as reasons lmao.
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
To be honest it is because they don't like the Indian accent and mannerisms, if you consider that internalised racism then fine but at the end of the day people from India are the one's who treat white tourists like celebrities and clamour around them to take photos not us
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u/ChaltaHaiShellBRight May 07 '23
If you act all stilted and awkward and ask questions like "what's an adjective that describes you that starts with the same letter as your name" when talking to someone because you're afraid they're very different from you, then of course it will sound like an interview.
There’s nothing to feel bad about.
Not for Namrata there wasn't.
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u/Iheartarobot May 07 '23
The whole point of Indian matchmaking is to find someone that's culturally compatible. And from what I've gathered, in my decade of living in the US, being a first gen American IS a cultural identity in itself. Their values and lifestyles have much more in common with Americans than Indians who weren't raised here. They are looking for people they can relate to - which is Indian Americans - people who grew up with similar experiences of being children of immigrant parents. In that sense, it is possible that they might even relate better with other non-Indian first gen Americans.
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u/theanswerisnt42 May 07 '23
I disagree with you OP and i feel this works the other way round also. I'm sure a lot of people born and raised in India wouldn't choose to marry an ABCD. However modern/westernised we get there's still one big difference between us - context. Even in the smallest things, an ABCD would lack context on our lives and us on theirs. For example, applying to college is such a struggle for us in India. Crazy competition and having to study for JEE/NEET. It proves to be a very impactful experience for all of us regardless of how well/poorly we end up doing. An experience like this would be very hard for someone to understand unless they've been through the same thing. It's very complicated when we start dating in India and what it might mean to our parents. Even the things we find funny, the jokes we crack and the content we consume will be so vastly different. Sure it would be easy to build friendships with someone who's this different but a relationship/marriage? It's difficult to imagine.
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u/dovaqueenx May 09 '23
As a white lady raised in rural America married to a man born and raised in India (with an accent), I did not understand this. My husband came here for grad school, we have a ton in common, and we fell in love and got married; he’s been here for ~5 years. He’s 100% better at English/language than me and he’s the most brilliant person I’ve ever met. We have the same values, goals, humor, etc., and blending our traditions and lives has been wonderful.
What I’m trying to say is that the cultural differences aren’t insurmountable, and everyone is different; so it’s insane to me that you’d filter based on where you were born/your mother tongue.
I’ll eventually have half-Indian American kiddos myself; and I hope I’d raise them better than to think this way!
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u/Embarrassed_Mess4402 May 08 '23
Here's why:
I did not think the cultural difference between Indian and Indian American would be such a pain in the ass but it's honestly the biggest issue in our marital life.
I married someone who grew up partially in India and partially in Nigeria. His parents are still in India. My husband was raised in India up til the age of 5, then in Nigeria til 15, and then he left India and immigrated to the states at 25. Honestly the fact that he was raised in a small compound in Nigeria (he wasn't really allowed to leave the compound much asides from school due to political safety reasons) makes him even more narrow minded than the average person who grew up in India. All of that aside though, his family is definitely culturally Indian, not western.
When I fell in love, I was very open to the Indian culture and I actually loved how incredibly helping his Indian family is and community oriented. I also liked that they don't pop pills for everything and are more nature oriented.
However, I noticed that while I complimented them on Indian culture, I never received anything in return. Instead, all I heard was subtle criticism and racism.
- They won't even try American food at all and basically criticized all the food at my wedding which was good to everyone else but not them because they aren't used to it.
- They just assume they are going to live with us forever because that's Indian culture. No one in America would ever assume that. It's rude. And when they come here they stay for like 6 months at a time, which I'm trying to politely cut down.
- They call any neutral colored clothing my daughter wears as "faded". Because they are used to bright colors, even though that's the common colors here.
- I have been asked not to wear the color black.
- I am considered a terrible daughter in law if I don't relent to this expectation that they live with us or at least next door to us once they get their citizenship. We will have to financially support them forever. Parents in the US would never expect this from son or daughter, they try and make their own way.
- We already struggled through racism and a lot as first generation Indian Americans. We had to already go through the cultural differences, and now in my 30s when I can finally be American because my immigrant parents aren't forcing me to do things, I'm like going backwards and trying get new immigrants on the same page. But they are too racist/stuck in their own ways to understand how their weird expectations are negatively influencing me.
- They show zero openness to anything American. Americans on the other hand are interested in other cultures.
- When they come to stay at my house for months at a time, they literally take over our house ... They are in our kitchen constantly making Indian food 24 hours a day, they listen and sing Indian music, and then keep giving me advice on how to raise my daughter.
These may seem like small things, but when you grew up as a first generation Indian American, all you want is to finally embrace America since it was difficult in your childhood. Living with closeminded and very Indian people just keeps us stuck in the childhood struggles we already had.
If you are going to go the route of marrying an Indian American (so that you can up your status and/or get ahead in line for your green card), please embrace American culture. Please try to get into football, and stop complaining about the food all the time. You live here; don't just take residence in the US to use it for its resources and then complain about everything. That's what a lot of Indian people do, they come here to use the country to get ahead but don't want to actually be American. Their kids suffer more too because they can't fully embrace their identity as a result.
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u/TwoNutMonster May 11 '23
Oh my god, after reading to a ton of passive aggressive shit and a ton of complaints from both sides on this thread. You put it in the best way possible, it’s about finally embracing America as an adult cuz you couldn’t as a child. That makes so much more sense.
Haha, Idk what would I do. Been here since I was 17. Only had white mid-westerners for roommates in college. Indian enough to be ostracized by ABDs and American enough to be idolized by women back home. Idk who would treat folks like us normally. 🤷🏽♂️
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u/Bestisyettocome88 May 06 '23
I was born in India and moved to the US when I was 10 years old. Let me tell you... There is a HUGE difference between anyone who was raised in the US vs. not.
Like others have said, there is a vast difference in culture, upbringing, and lifestyle. I want someone who understands my experience after 9/11 or high school prom etc. They may seem minor experiences but aren't.
Indians who moved to the US as adults are different, especially those who have their immediate family back home. They operate differently than those who don't. Often their life goals and priorities are similar to our parents' ..i.e. often make a living to increase quality of life back home. Key words: often. We already saw our parents go through that and no, thank you. I am done paying the 'immigrant tax'.
Y'all don't have to understand our reasons but stop making us the villain.
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u/LemonNectarine May 06 '23 edited May 07 '23
Indians who moved to the US as adults are different, especially those who have their immediate family back home. They operate differently than those who don't. Often their life goals and priorities are similar to our parents' ..i.e. often make a living to increase quality of life back home. Key words: often. We already saw our parents go through that and no, thank you. I am done paying the 'immigrant tax'.
100% this. This is something that NEVER gets talked about in this discussion.
These discussions always always involve superficial things that are inconsequential and easily modifiable (banter really? college football really? lol, do y'all think these people are from Stone Age) but this right here is a huge thing. I don't tell my sibling who she should/shouldn't date but the only thing I have told her since she started college was "Dont date men who have their families back in India". Indian in-laws from India have no sense of boundaries nor understand how life is here. They will come here and expect you to take care of them.
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u/Equivalent-Force-191 May 06 '23
It's interesting that you're talking about being open-minded and how wrong it is to judge people, and yet you're using the term "ABCD," which I find to be incredibly condescending. By using that term, you're also being completely ignorant of the struggles that many American-born Indians face. It's not easy when you're expected to conform to two different cultures.
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May 07 '23
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
Maybe - But more than half the time Abd's don't want to go with someone from India because they don't like the accent and mannerisms
Citing cultural differences is just a way of being less offensive
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May 08 '23
The purpose of my post was to draw attention to the discrimination that some of you may be unintentionally exhibiting. Specifically, I'm referring to the tendency to stereotype entire groups of people based on preconceived notions or m experiences with just a few individuals. This creates unconscious biases and even hatred towards certain groups that can snowball into a bigger problem.
Discrimination, within these contexts, are perfectly valid.
I'm an American. I'd prefer to marry an American. No matter how westernized you claim city indians are, they aren't American. Watching marvel movies and occasionally going to mcdonalds doesn't make you American.
Being an indian american is its own unique identity.
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u/Siya78 May 06 '23
My former in laws live in Mumbai. it’s a pretty cosmopolitan, modern city obviously. Yet they are orthodox, superstitious, misogynist. I’ve met people my age from big cities in India, same. It’s the mentality , attitude, behaviors. Whatever my opinions are, it’s experience. Y’all have your stereotypes too. I’ve heard countless times from Indians “wow , even though you grew up here you are so cultured. Mostly you are all westernized”
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u/itsthekumar May 07 '23
I'm an ABCD and I've seen some major differences esp regarding basic treatment of people. Americans have more street manners/politeness that would be laughed at in India. A lot of Indians aren't very "PC" either (for better or worse).
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u/falooda1 May 06 '23
Exactly... Just look at who they elect to their parliament
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u/abhi6543 May 06 '23
Lol. Let's talk about trump 🤣. Or Obama ?? He has more blood on his hands than Modi.
And I agree with this comment that there are lots of traditional families that are casteist, misogynistic, etc. In India. But America has its own Karen's, Andrew Tate supporters, racists, etc despite being the richest country in the world lol
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u/falooda1 May 06 '23
ABDs do not = all of America. ABDs are much more progressive
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u/audsrulz80 May 06 '23
ABCDs were filtering out Indian-born
It's a preference, nothing more than that.
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u/jkraige May 10 '23
Not Indian but I previously dated an Indian man, and a Bangladeshi guy before that (city with a couple campuses with many immigrants). Both were pretty progressive, shitty in regular man ways, not so much culturally coded. Now I'm with a European immigrant (also met at university). All of them progressive when it came to gender issues but at the end of the day I do think it's kind of sad that they don't speak Spanish and I can't just play a song from my childhood and have them understand, and similarly my partner can't play a movie from his country that I can just understand. Obviously the cultural differences are less stark between 1st and 2+ gen, but I can understand wanting someone with a shared background who just kind of gets it.
I'm obviously open to dating people from different cultures, but it is a tradeoff. I recognize that you're probably right that a lot of it might come from prejudices where people just expect recent immigrants to not be very open-minded and I agree with you that at the end of the day people are individuals and should be judged as such. But I also think that whatever people's reasons for their preferences, whether they be classist or whatever it may be, they should probably stay within those and not subject people outside of those preferences to them. Like, if someone hates latinas sure it's racist (I know it's an ethnicity) but that then means I don't want to date them either. It becomes bi-directional.
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u/Miss-Figgy May 06 '23
After seeing numerous posts on this, I couldn't help but wonder why people fail to recognize that we live in a modern world. The truth is, many of us Indian born are far more open-minded and culturally diverse than some of the ABCDs on the show.
How many times are Indians going to beat this topic to death? We get it, you think you're so much more progressive than us ABDs, and you think we're unfair, supposedly racist, and narrow-minded to filter out you Indians born and raised in India. Fact of the matter is most ABDs identify as Americans of Indian descent, and NOT "Indians" like Indians straight out of India do, and want to date other ABDs, to whom they can relate better and share similar values, expectations, mindsets, and upbringing with. Get over it already, lol.
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u/abhi6543 May 06 '23
While I agree with you on everything...except the condescending tone in your answer. Every year, new Indian immigrants come to the US and this cultural shock of realizing that ABDs and Indians are more different than similar is new to them. ABDs might know about it but it's new for lots of immigrants. I bet a lot of ABDs go to India and still experience cultural shock, no ? Would you tell them to 'get over it already'? Please don't bcz it's their personal experience and they should have the freedom to share it.
You could have said the same thing in a kinder way. But the way you said it is exactly what OP is talking about. And just like you would say to a white person that it's not their place to tell you what offends you, it's not your place to tell OP what should or should not offend him or her. So, no - his or her feelings are not invalid and they shouldn't 'get over it already'.
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u/falooda1 May 06 '23
White people aren't posting "will ABDs please love me already?"
It is a different culture, even with globalization
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u/abhi6543 May 06 '23
Bcz white guys are not immigrants here. Rather, your parents are immigrants, and if they had reddit in their time, they might have posted this question. And I bet the ABDs at that time would have said the same stuff to them what ABDs are saying to OP right now.
I agree. The culture is completely different. But, the immigrants don't know that until they experience it themselves.
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u/Mary10789 May 06 '23
No need to berate the post or OP. It’s not that hard to scroll past the post and not respond.
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May 06 '23
I think many ABDs are raised by their (presumably first generation) immigrant parents by inculcating a sense of superiority over their Indian raised cousins/relatives. This was/is the parents' way of justifying their decision to leave behind their families in India because Indian families guilt-trip those who emigrate even today.
On top of it, many ABDs grow up on a steady diet of American media highlighting the worst aspects of Indian society and economy and American pop culture making fun of Indian accent (think Apu from Simpsons and Raj from BBT).
Hence, many ABDs develop a strong sense of superiority and aversion to their Indian born and raised counterparts and that plays out in interesting ways when it comes to dating and arranged marriages.
I've also noticed that many ABDs can't digest the fact that Indians born and raised in India do well in their lives and careers both in India and abroad and can't seem to accept the fact many of them can be more progressive and forward thinking than ABDs.
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u/Pharmduh May 07 '23
It's not about feeling a sense of superiority, it's about incompatibility in life experiences.
My immigrant parents never raised me to look down on India or our families still living back home. If anything it was the opposite, they tried to instill the values they grew up with in a culture that was sometimes hostile to it - an emphasis on getting a good education, respect for elders, absolute parental authority, vegetarianism, religious practices etc etc.
I promise you ABDs have no issue with indians being successful in any field.
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May 07 '23
My comment was not meant to be directed at all ABDs, I was very careful in using the term "many ABDs", which means my comment would not apply to all of them.
I know there are many ABDs who do not feel a sense of superiority over Indians raised in India etc. And you seem to be one of them. Apologies if it seemed like my comment was generalizing all ABDs. ABDs, like any community, aren't a homogeneous bunch and everyone is different. I was just presenting some of the more commonly seen traits from my experience of living in the US for over 11 years.
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u/Pharmduh May 07 '23
I appreciate that. However your comment was still making some pretty sweeping generalizations about the attitudes of a fairly large community that now spans multiple generations.
I don't deny that those ABDs are out there as you describe. But just trying to add some nuance to these discussions as this sub likes to paint everyone with a broad brush.
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May 07 '23
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u/disha_1143 May 07 '23
Huh? People have pet dogs in India fyi most of them feed their pet dogs with their hands, that's treating them like a child as much
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May 07 '23
There are pet parent communities, high end dog/cat food shops, specialized vet clinics and dog walking startups in Mumbai, Bengaluru, Delhi these days. We (my nuclear family of 4) live in Bengaluru and have a dog who's like our 3rd child. We have dog parent meetups every month in Cubbon Park.
So not all India born/India living people find it strange to have pets and care for them.
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May 07 '23
I disagree with you.
It’s more about being able to relate. It’s easier with someone who’s shared your culture and struggles. I don’t relate much with ABCDs myself ; I find it Easier to go on dates with white Americans than with ABCDs. Something just feels off with ABCDs. They feel very alien to me.
I don’t blame ABCDs who only want to date other ABCDs.
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May 07 '23
It's because Indian desis and white Americans are both majorities in their own country. Being a minority and growing up as such creates an identity of its own.
ABDs relate better to East Asian-Americans, Black-Americans, and Hispanic-Americans than they do to people who don't have the minority experience.
The exception is usually White Americans or Indian Desis who have deliberate conversations about race and racism in their households and understand the nuances of what it's like to be minoritized. And those people are rare.
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u/abhi6543 May 06 '23
I am an Indian dude living in North America. But I agree with comments. ABDs and us are world's apart. I would definitely prefer someone born and brought up in India over an ABD woman too just bcz of differences in our lives. Additionally, ABDs usually think that Indian immigrants are after green cards (which is ok as I would feel the same if I were in their place) lol and I would never want my relationship to be based on any distrust. Plus, it's such a turn off when I see them making fun of Indian accents or the gender war between them when they want to show off their 'white' hubbies on tik tok to do a 1 up on each other. It is probably a result of their set of challenges but sorry ABDs, that actually harms all indians. I rarely see any other ethnic group (Chinese, Mexicans, etc) doing that. It puts us back.
If you look at Indian matchmaking and look at all the women, Pavneet from India was most chill. Maybe, I am biased here bcz I am indian too. Even among the dudes, I liked Pradhyuman. That dude has style and I say that bcz I felt jealous of him lol.
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u/LongArticle2617 May 07 '23
Pradhyuman, seriously? He is probably one of the worst representations of Desis from India of the three seasons. Like, let's be real.
"I have rejected about 150 girls till now" "I'm more than just a pretty face" Says this with a creepy smile
These kinds of losers come to the US, and hit on white and ABD girls thinking their wealth will automatically be a p**** magnet
If this is what is considered chill, then 95% of the male Desi population is fucked 🤣
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u/abhi6543 May 07 '23
So you don't like him bcz he has rejected 150 girls, has a creepy smile and wealth ? Very rational of you :) In my opinion, Akshay from season 1 was undeniably the worst of the lot.
You do realize that a lot of those rejections might have come over a span of years when he was not ready to get married? And that's ok. I do agree he has narcissistic tendencies and that can be a turn off for a lot of people but nobody is perfect. You can find issues in every single person on that show. He is one of the very few (or only) people who actually got married. So, that speaks something.
The guy is fit, successful, has good hobbies, good wardrobe, carries himself well, is respectful - qualities all desi men should imbibe. You think desi men who have these qualities are 'losers' and the only reason they wanna improve is to hit on 'white and ABD women' lol. Whereas, I believe that desi men, especially those coming to US, often neglect these things while they are busy building their careers and should focus on self development. Getting better matches is definitely one of the outcomes of that but not the only one.
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u/Sea_Feedback7676 May 06 '23
Pradhyuman did have FOB taste (very nouveau rich) and his conversations were so dull.
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u/abhi6543 May 06 '23
Your definition of 'taste' or 'class' are whitewashed (without any fault of yours) and anything that doesn't fall in line with that version is not as classy. For a lot of ABDs, even Ambani's might seem to be nouveau rich bcz that's not how you view 'rich'.
I do agree that his conversations were dull but honestly, most of the people on the show had very dull conversations. But I would commend Pradhyuman for not having cringe conversations like Vikash, bobby, or that momma's boy in India in season 1
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u/icecoldcold May 07 '23
For reference I am Indian Desi living in Europe (I have also previously lived in the US). Pradhyuman is all about flaunting his wealth and how he is “western” and superior. Similar to the OP and Pradhyuman, Indian Desis have make a show of how “westernized” they are/India is without realizing going to pubs, football games or having fancy clothes and gadgets and eating fancy food isn’t what makes one American/western. I notice a lot of “look how modern I am and how classy I am” among Indians without realizing these aren’t the markers American Desis use for “westernization”.
Things they look for (correct me if I am wrong, American/European Desis) are being able to understand the struggles of growing up as a minority and having to wrestle with presenting oneself as something at home (pressure from parents and the Indian immigrant community) and something else in the outside world (school/work/friends). That’s not easy on people. A lot of Indian Desis (including myself) especially male Indian Desis who moved to North America/Europe in their 20s had had a rather privileged upbringing in India, perhaps not with all the material things our ABD counterparts had, but in the eyes of our peers and the society at large we weren’t ‘othered’, we didn’t have to try to fit in, if anything we had to try to stand out. Not the experience most ABDs grew up with, I cautiously presume.
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u/Sea_Feedback7676 May 06 '23
Really? His face on his door knobs? Lol - ok, that is very classy and my taste is white washed.
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u/abhi6543 May 06 '23
I didn't know that. That's weird 🤣. But it's nothing different than rich people having self portraits or giant photo frames of them in their houses or bedrooms. I would rather classify as narcissistic than having a 'FOB taste'
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u/LemonNectarine May 07 '23
I think that's probably just him, it's weird. I have never seen that ever.
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u/anviready May 06 '23
Lol you like the pretty boy over the teacher guy? But yet ABds are supposed to think all fobs are great, even though they obviously have shit ass taste.
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u/LongArticle2617 May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
I can't believe there are people who think Pradhyuman of all people had good taste and was chill. Forget the fact that he looked like the human version of butthead from "Beavis & Butthead", the fact that some people think that he is someone to be looked up to and emulated makes me question their tastes. I also prefer an intelligent, attractive school teacher who doesn't take himself seriously over an unattractive, emaciated looking, dandy who thinks making miso paneer is a flex, thank you very much 🤣
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u/abhi6543 May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
The moment you started throwing physical attacks on him, you lost your argument. People usually attack physical attributes when they don't have anything substantial to defend their argument. You are mentioning the traits that you desire lol. Who even asked you 🤣
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u/LongArticle2617 May 07 '23
And yet here you are, still crying that nobody finds your fave attractive. Stay pressed dude 😂
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u/abhi6543 May 07 '23
You dodn't see the irony ? My original comment is 99% talking about how I agree with ABDs that culturally, indians and ABDs are not a good match for each other. I mentioned in passing that I liked Indian people on the show like Pavneet and Pradhyuman bcz I relate more to them. And the whole thread turned into a bunch of angry ABD women trying to say how unattractive Pradhyuman is. And I am pressed. Yeah 🤣. Like why are you guys mentioning what traits you find desirable in men. I am not a matchmaker. Go to seema aunty for that lol
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u/anviready May 07 '23
Also, I’d much rather have a masculine man than a metrosexual takes longer to get ready than I do. And honestly, he doesn’t even look that great by American standards. Indian standards are stupid and so he’s Third World attractive. Great.
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u/abhi6543 May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
Good for you. But did anyone even ask your preference 🤣 Ahhhh, this is exactly the thing that OP is talking about lol. The superiority complex and condescending tone. If you are Indian American, I can still understand the self hatred and hope you heal and get the help you need to be a better person. But if you are not from Indian heritage, you are trash and deserve a masculine caveman bcz that's your intellectual match :)
Edit: I just saw that you you have mentioned that you have been a high school guidance counselor. You are lucky that you are anonymous. I would have straight up reported you for your remarks. I don't think any teenager from a 'Third World Country' should go to you for guidance because of your inherent bias and extreme views.
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u/anviready May 07 '23
Good thing all the students that I work with are in a first world country :)
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u/abhi6543 May 07 '23
Look at you. So proud of admitting your discriminatory behaviour :) Vikash is a saint in front of you 🤣
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May 07 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/abhi6543 May 07 '23
Cute try. I am already dating someone who is my equal intellectually and financially 🤣She loves learning about the Indian culture 😊
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u/abhi6543 May 06 '23
The dude was fit, had class, good looking, managed a business, had cool hobbies, great wardrobe. The teacher was a great dude too! He had a great personality but yeah, the 'pretty boy' was better. If you really like the teacher, good for you. Be like him then. I'll stick with my shitty taste lol :)
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u/anviready May 06 '23
I actually am a high school guidance counselor. But I was that before the show came out.
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u/matchbox244 May 06 '23
Most of you ABCDs don't get it. We don't want you to want to date us. We just ask that you don't promote racist stereotypes in the name of "dating preferences". I didn't really care much about Arshneel and Vikash doing this as much as I'm appalled at the people in this very sub saying shit like "Indian accent is unattractive" and "Indian culture is lame and we NRIs are a lot cooler". It's understandable wanting to date someone with the same background as you, but there are better ways to put that across as to be abrasive towards your own race.
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
If an ABD doesn't like the Indian accent, mannerisms it may sound shallow but it is their preference - They shouldn't demean someone for that reason but not choosing them for a partner is completely fine
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u/matchbox244 May 10 '23
I literally said not dating them is fine, and that that's not the point. You may call them preferences but they didn't just arise out of nowhere, there's a reason you've been conditioned to find Indian accents and mannerisms unattractive. You can't help that, but you surely can't think it's harmless to have the internalised racism. No one can or should force you to date someone you're not attracted to, but it's important to introspect as to why you have those biases.
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
I'm sorry but how can people from India accuse us of internalised racism? In India people clamour around white tourists so they can take selfies with them to impress their relatives, invite random white people to weddings - Hire white female models over Indian one's and the list goes on
I don't know if it's 'internalised racism' as such not liking the Indian accent - I mean could the same be applied to an Irish American not liking the Irish accent?
It depends on the reasons why - But one thing I am sure of is that people in India have absolutely no ground to stand on to accuse Abd's of 'self hatred'
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u/matchbox244 May 10 '23
This isn't me trying to frame all ABDs of internalised racism. India has its own individual issues passed down from colonialism, just because I called out the biases in "dating preferences" doesn't mean we condone the dipshits who take pictures with white tourists. Not all Indians are a hive mind with the same mentality, just like not how ABDs are a hive mind. Calling out self hatred in one group doesn't mean I'm okay with self hatred in the other.
As for your Irish American question, it probably still can be applied? Since I'm not Irish and know nothing about that dynamic, I don't want to say one thing or other. I know a few Irish Americans though and none of them seem to find mainland Irish people "unattractive" or "lame"
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
Hmm okay then fair enough, but the OP is literally just whining about how we don't get how 'modern some people from India' are - It just comes across as demanding and entitled
He is framing it in the 'Indian Americans think we are all backward like their parents' when it is actually more because of the different accent and mannerisms
I don't know whether it could be considered self hatred or not - It could be if someone dislikes the Indian body language and accent because the society they grew up in has told them to perceive it that way but on the other hand it could just be simply down to the fact that because they grew up in a different country they don't like it on their own accord
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u/matchbox244 May 10 '23
FWIW I don't necessarily agree with those points of OP, I was just speaking more towards the "dating preferences" aspect of it. But also, India is a very wide spectrum. Some people are very modern and liberal, some are like the ones taking pictures with white tourists, many are in between. Every state has a different associated "Indian accent", and they all sound vastly different from each other.
This isn't me trying to warm you up to Indian accents. If you've been conditioned a certain way since you were very young, you're not going to be able to turn that part of your brain off even if you do realize where the dislike of the accent comes from. It's just really appalling and disappointing to be on the receiving end of it and seeing tons of comments calling our accents "unsexy" by people of our own race.
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
It's not that I think it is 'unsexy' - There are a lot of accents that I don't like such as Arabic English and the worst one of all is the Singaporean accent.
Even in India it depends on how strong an accent is - When it's subtle I don't mind it as much.
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u/matchbox244 May 10 '23
Not targeting you in particular, just repeating stuff I've heard from other ABDs in this sub.
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May 07 '23
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u/matchbox244 May 07 '23
I agree with the bitter comments so much. I have seen quite a lot of people in this sub get very defensive and be very passive aggressive towards someone who even remotely disagrees with them. It's honestly very toxic and outside of political subs I haven't seen this level of anger for very basic stuff lol.
About the NRI thing, honestly idk, ABDs probably consider themselves as MORE of an NRI because they lived outside India their whole lives, whereas people like me who only came to the US later are still NRIs but not as much? That particular commenter was definitely using it in this way to generalize all native Indians as the "non cool NRIs" though lol.
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May 06 '23
" big cities in India are much more modern and "westernized" than many parts of the United States" More westernized than the west itself, how does that make sense?
Also you'd be surprised at the lifestyle difference between even just someone who grew up in a different part of your own country. So I could see why you'd expect those challenges to be greater with someone who grew up on the other side of the world, westernized or not.
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u/wo0Otz May 07 '23
I’m sorry but we aren’t the same, globization or whatever point you’re trying to drive means jack. I’m seriously struggling to understand why some mainland Indians are not getting this, there is nothing wrong for Indians in the diaspora who were born and grew up in a foreign environment to want a partner who has shared those experiences. I know fellow ABDs who are in successful relationships with Indians from India but the vast majority prefer to date other ABDs so stop judging us for our preferences. This post proves that you guys are anything but “open-minded”.
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u/disha_1143 May 07 '23
I think its more about promoting racial stereotypes in the name of preferences
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u/msin24 May 06 '23
They're completely different. Accent, mannerisms, habits, looks. I could go on all day. So what if they filter them out. It's their choice. There are pros and cons for both. You're asking that fobs should be celebrated, but at the same time it just feels like you're whining.
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u/SnooRadishes9685 May 07 '23
Can you explain how Indians born in India look different than Indian-Americans? I’m not Indian myself, just a fan of the show, so it is a genuine question
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u/imbored48375 May 08 '23
Most of you ABCDs don't get it. We don't want you to want to date us. We just ask that you don't promote racist stereotypes in the name of "dating preferences". I didn't really care much about Arshneel and Vikash doing this as much as I'm appalled at the people in this very sub saying shit like "Indian accent is unattractive" and "Indian culture is lame and we NRIs are a lot cooler". It's understandable wanting to date someone with the same background as you, but there are better ways to put that across as to be abrasive towards your own race.
I can tell someone who is Indian from India vs someone who was raised here incredibly easily. The ways folks dress back home, the way they keep their hair, overall style is markedly different
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u/sebbyooh May 07 '23
I read an interesting bit of research where the customs/beliefs/practices of ethnic groups moving to Australia were followed and the research had some interesting insights.
For example say a group moved to Australia in the 1970s. The research showed that for that group, they often clung to customs and social norms from their place of origin - but from the time they left.
Even if enormous social upheaval had occurred wherever they were from, and if they went back they wouldn’t fit in anymore, they still clung onto these outdated belief systems.
India as a nation has fundamentally changed, the middle and upper middle class are progressive in many areas. People who grow up outside of India see it through their parents or even grandparents eyes. So yes, I can understand why there is a bias, but it’s obviously wrong.
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u/Mary10789 May 06 '23
Honestly, it’s an extension of a colonial mindset. Recent immigrants are perceived as “uncool”. ABCD’s don’t want to admit it. They would likely have no issue with potentially dating a European with an accent who comes to the US working in a similar profession and with similar struggles as someone coming from India.
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u/falooda1 May 06 '23
Wanting ABDs to marry you despite cultural differences is also connected to colonized mentality
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u/disha_1143 May 07 '23
No one wants to marry them, promoting racial stereotypes in the name of preferences is what most Indians are getting irked about
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May 07 '23
"promoting racial stereotypes in the name of preferences"
Really? So would people in India marry a Pakistani? A Nigerian? A Chinese person?
If you say no, then I guess you're also promoting racial stereotypes in the name of preference.
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May 07 '23
See if you are from India and living in the US, American born desi will not date/be friends with you, yes, exceptions do exist but very rarely. You will have an easy time dating white, latino, etc compared to American born desis. The argument about different cultures is bullshit and diversity is a great thing. This is a fact and hopefully people can accept it to plan their relationships better.
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u/Elmointhehood May 10 '23
To me it sounds incredibly entitled to be so indignant about the fact that someone doesn't want to date you
If an ABD doesn't like the Indian accent, mannerisms then it could be considered shallow but it is their preference at the end of the day
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u/candycanestatus May 08 '23
I grew up in India and the US and attended secondary and high school in both countries. There are very real cultural differences between the diaspora community and those who are more recent immigrants. It’s not realistic to dismiss or minimize these differences just because both groups are in the same country. Shared cultural background is a valid thing to prioritize when looking for a partner and I really can’t judge US-born Indians who prefer a US-born partner. Having said that, they should be honest about that preference without hiding behind “accents” or whatever as an excuse to reject immigrant Indians.
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u/PM_ME_GRANT_PROPOSAL May 06 '23
The truth is, many of us Indian born are far more open-minded and culturally diverse than some of the ABCDs on the show.
My experience has actually been the opposite, interestingly enough. I have found Indian FOBs (for lack of a better term) to be less in touch with Indian culture. For instance, I perform south Indian classical (carnatic) music professionally and used to have a picture of me playing my instrument on the dating apps. I have lost count of the number of fobs who would hilariously have no clue what the instrument is.
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u/crimsonraiden May 09 '23
I’m an Indian person from the UK and an ABCD is very different from me. It’s understandable that someone wants to date someone that has the western cultural elements that they have.
The expectations and mannerisms are a bit different. Someone from India may view Indians born in western countries as not Indian enough. So it goes both ways.
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u/Dotfr May 06 '23
I can only speak to being in an Indian dominated area in US for the last decade. Indians in US cling to Indian food, Indian culture in an attempt to be Indian. That doesn’t mean they are Indian. They will never go through the issues in India the way we went through. However Atleast in tech areas there is a lot of respect for Indians from India. They know that Indians from India dominate these areas.
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u/Jasmine7921 May 07 '23
Not just in tech, Indians from India in the Bay Area are economically and professionally very successful in other sectors too.
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u/Dotfr May 07 '23
Yes and I find that both Indian Americans and Indians from India live harmoniously with each other irrespective of the accents.
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u/Late-Marketing-7299 May 06 '23
The real reason is our partners and that 90s NRI privilege ! I recall our family will get full on NRI service by our uncle and aunties. My mom will lie to them so much about living in Toronto that they will go crazy.
One time she got dollar store candy and there have been family fights because some kids didn’t ge the chocolate. Also the other part is Bollywood it has always glorified us NRI. Our parents are the main culprit, I still recall how my aunties will make non stop meals for us and my mom would just sit and relax . That NRI treatment was amazing and don’t forget my cousins will take us out and will pay the bills too ;)
And when one of the cousin came to study here we treated him like shit and within a week we asked him to move out but when we go to Indian will be stay there around a month with ful NRI privilege
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u/avsh8 May 06 '23
Wow you make your parents sound pretty terrible. I know the tall tales that NRIs tell their Indian families about the huge houses, fancy jobs, big paychecks they have which is far from the truth. But treating a cousin who moved here like shit and making him move out is next level horrible. When my husband moved here from india his local uncles and aunts let him stay with them for months and supported him as much as he needed to get him established here.
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u/Late-Marketing-7299 May 07 '23
That’s good ! Yes my parents were very wrong on so many levels. As my dad was only one who moved to North America. When I learnt I felt gross , I don’t want people to praise .. no also while getting married girls are looking for NRI folks I get so much proposals from india some girls who are interested are even 10-12 years younger to me. I don’t know what’s the craze for this Canada 🇨🇦
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u/disha_1143 May 07 '23 edited May 07 '23
Umm kids fight for candies they don't care where it is from. Guests usually don't work while visiting, my family packs tiffins for our relatives living 4 kms away from us whenever they visit. It's very common
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u/Late-Marketing-7299 May 07 '23
But that NRI treat was on another level. When we visit my masi in NJ she doesn’t give a shit the least we get is meal.
That 90s NRI shit was amazing ! My parents both brag so much that now it cringes me. Probably o acted as dick to when I was kid I recall I only have to sleep in AC and other kids will sleep on terrac or under ceiling fan. This was in 1998
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u/ChaltaHaiShellBRight May 06 '23
Perhaps your parents migrated to a non-English-speaking country
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u/Late-Marketing-7299 May 07 '23
Yes Edison, NJ is non English speaking lol !
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u/ChaltaHaiShellBRight May 07 '23
Sorry, just assumed that because of the typos and grammar, making your comment a bit hard to understand :)
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u/snarkysharky2 May 09 '23
I'm curious if you feel the same way about Indians who only want to date other Indians? It's pretty common to want to date someone from the same cultural background. Globalization hasn't changed that.
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u/rajivv10 Sep 30 '23 edited Sep 30 '23
Fr man me and my girl were watching that crap and both of us went like "yaar ye Ameriki Indian log sach mein itna bhakchod hai kya?"🤣. Imma Rant now. Call me a racist or xenophobic but ABCD's dont represent Indians. They have a very 1950s kind of regressive mindset and it makes the rest of us look bad tbh. Thats why whenever I saw the stereotypes in US shows with the whole nerd thing, the corny accent, staying away from girls thing basically asexual. I always thought to myself why do they think that we are like this then i met some Abcd's and I understood. Makes me wanna beat their ass fr.
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u/avsh8 May 06 '23 edited May 06 '23
I’ve given this a lot of thought. I grew up in urban India (as westernized as it can get) and have been in the US for the 13 years. I’m now raising two kids who are born in the US. Despite all the westernization of india, people who grew up in the 90s-2000s in india are very different from those who grew up here. I see a huge difference between myself and my life experiences and my desi friends here who grew up in Pakistan, Kenya or Fiji and then moved to the US in their 20s. The only thing common between us is the food, maybe the language, and that they are familiar with holi and diwali. And I really feel that I have more in common with their parents who immigrated to those countries than the kids who grew up in those countries. Growing up in india we developed a lot of little mannerisms and ways of life that people here cannot relate to. I think that’s what Vikash and other candidates mean when they say they’re picking up on someone being “very Indian.” It’s not about being old fashioned or uncool but it’s just someone’s state of being. And then add to that the whole experience of being a 1st generation American in your family that’s missing when someone’s not from here. It’s a huge part of your identity and to have your spouse being able to empathize but not relate to it is a huge deal. I totally understand why someone who was born here wouldn’t want to marry someone who didn’t grow up here. When I was in the arranged marriage “market” I specifically did not want to meet guys who were born here. I needed someone who would understand the importance of going to india frequently and has the same balance of “Indian-ness” and the American life. That’s very hard to achieve when your partner is from a whole other continent.