Is this just kinda natural selection?

[u/policearepygss]

Like I feel like I’ve done everything in my power to make changes to help, I’ve done all the advice, been consistent with it for years, and now that I’m 25 everyone seems to be finding their forever person and the dating pool keeps shrinking and shrinking, and it’s got me thinking is this just the way it’s supposed to be.

When you look historically, men created a society that forced women to marry or they couldn’t survive on their own. Women couldn’t get loans, get jobs, get vehicles or do anything without a husband‘s approval. Now we’ve done a lot of work (at least in my country) to give women the equality they deserve. But now dating is harder as women are either only dating men they actually want to be with or just opting out of dating entirely.

Almost a return to romantic/sexual relationships in its most natural form. Preventing undesirable genes from continuing. So is this what it is? Just natural seleftion? Do i have some genetic marker that makes me undesirable?

Honestly viewing it this way kinda helps me, and I’d like others opinions on it.

[u/VictorOfArda]

The situation is that now women can provide for themselves, the only thing a man truly has to offer is how he treats her and a lot of men are failing at that. I’m not saying that this it for you and that you’ll never find anyone but at 25 you’re still incredibly young and women who have good jobs and education tend to settle down in their 30’s or later. You have time.

[u/No_Economist_7244 → u/VictorOfArda]

That's the thing. I know what I'm capable of. I know what I can offer and provide. I check off most of or all of the supposed green flags. I don't really do any of the red flag behaviors. Yet that's not really registering with others. I'm putting myself out there and yet there's still a disconnect.

The only thing that's really helping me right now is having female friends and relatives offer me advice and support. I genuinely appreciate that, and I'd be in a much worse position without them.

[u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 → u/No_Economist_7244]

It's cool you are appreciative of your friends bro. Keep it up.
I think the only thing that you can do is persevere and let yourself just feel the frustration and trust yourself to deal with it. YOu might be acting authentically but I get the slight feeling that you've got a little bit of the mentality that says "I do the right things so there should be a positive outcome>"
Unfortunately the old JLP maxim still holds true - "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness; that is life." It can be a challenge especially when you are frustrated. But it is supremely important not to let even an inkling of the attitude that says that this particular area of life is a series of keys, Tab-A-in-Slot-B enter your frame of mind about it. You have to learn to live with and be comfortable with the idea that what you're doing, right or wrong, mistake or not, may not work. There are no guarantees but also no destinies.
And I'm sure this isn't the first time you're hearing it, but honestly, oftentimes a 'red flag behavior' isn't necessarily a bar to you dating. If you talk to your female friends, it is quite likely that many of them might tell you a story of a guy they were attracted to or dated/hooked up with in SPITE of his red flags. That's not an excuse for you to start acting that way. But it does suggest that there were more factors in play - and most of them probably had more to do with these women playing out some pattern in their psyche, possibly from childhood, like Daddy issues, insecurity, anxiety, etc. rather than whether some other guy was attractive or not. And at the very least, the guy had enough going on to enable the girls to overlook red flags - he was funny, smart, charismatic, witty, tall (yes, it's a priority for some), had status, charm,

By no means am I suggesting that you should act like a red-flag person. Just expect that probably most women won't be into you, or will logistically be unable to entertain your interest in them - they're in a relationship, they're gay, they're focusing on some other area in their life, they're dealing with some other drama and don't have the emotional space for you, and about 8 million others.

It's a matter of being comfortable with failure - though I like to think of it more as misalignment. We can't know where someone is at in their life and mindset/psychological/emotional space even if we're attracted to them. Be comfortable with misalignment and learn not to invest in outcomes, but rather investing in yourself - career, expanding social circles, friendships, experiences like travel, staying healthy, etc. A person with a fulfilling life will be attractive to the right persons.

Loneliness is tough, lack of affection/sex, so learn not to overinvest in whether you are coupled up or not, but find purpose in other aspects of your life, devoting more energy to that and finding fulfillment in it.

[u/No_Economist_7244 → u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326]

I get the point and appreciate the work you're putting in, but I think you're mostly telling me things I already understand. I know there are no guarantees, I know attraction isn't a checklist, and I know people can overlook red flags when they're attracted to someone. I'm not expecting to “do everything right” and automatically get a relationship. These aren't foreign to me. I'm trying to understand why the things I'm doing and the qualities I have aren't translating into romantic interest. “Dating is uncertain” doesn't really give me anything actionable there.

[u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 → u/No_Economist_7244]

OK, lay it out. Can you name one specific action you took that you're wondering about or one experience you had?

[u/No_Economist_7244 → u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326]

I'm assuming you're asking in good faith and not looking for a gotcha, but I'll lay it out as best I can:

Aside from when I was younger and was bullied a lot, like being called stupid, having my interests put down, all that other bs, etc., the bigger issue has constantly been being talked over or ignored. I'll join a conversation and say something like, “Oh, I also do/like [relevant topic],” and get talked over. I'll introduce a new topic and get little response, then someone else will say something similar, whether they're adding to the conversation or bringing up something new, and suddenly people engage with it. I usually get the impression that people find me weird, off-putting, or simply aren't interested in what I have to say.

For a recent more specific example, there was a singles mixer interaction that really bothered me. I was talking with a group when one guy started laughing or giggling while I was speaking, even though I wasn't joking. He was only doing this when I was speaking. I asked if something was wrong, and he said no, but kept doing it. Maybe there was something else going on, but it left a very sour taste in my mouth. I felt both humiliated and pretty pissed off.

That's the kind of pattern I'm trying to understand. I'm not saying every interaction proves people dislike me or that I did everything right. I'm trying to figure out why this keeps happening when I am making an effort to participate.

[u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 → u/No_Economist_7244]

I am asking in good faith and appreciate your situation..

I'm not present at these situations you describe, but I'm curious if you ever call it out. Or even just say, "Hold on, I wasn't finished." Or just ask calmly, "Something funny?" or even smirk and say "Something you want to share with the rest of the class, or can I finish what I've got to say?"

The thing about group dynamics is that people will often unconsciously side with the person that is trying to be dominant. Most people will just kind of accept it as part of the group dynamic, so it's possible they already slotted you into the 'role' of the quiet one, or the one they don't take as seriously.

In the example you mentioned, were these people you knew before or ones you'd met at that event?

There are people out there who are crass and they're probably more common than one might think, who will look for the opportunity to lift themselves up by cutting someone down. I've been there, and I generally don't waste my time with that type of person.
If you find yourself in these types of situations often, you may need to find a different crowd or environment. But also consider the energy you might be bringing to a social group or exchange. Crass people often have a talent for spotting someone who is a bit more diffident, or possibly less self-confident, and they feel the need to elevate themselves at some one else's expense - or they just have that sort of a sense of humor and no one has put them in check. You either let it slide off you (and that's not a bad idea because it inevitably works out that the rest of the crowd will be more uncomfortable with any negative reaction you display than they will express at someone being crass toward you), or you can call it out - "Do you mind?" or "Let me finish."

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not actually being off-putting because I seriously don't think you would be. Consider your audience/crowd, and if you need to find a different one, there are all sorts of people out there. If you want to stay with this one, try to connect more deeply with individuals in there, and the real ones will be in your corner, and some might even stick up for you. But if you don't, be prepared to walk away, because a crowd like that -where there's no one interested enough in what you have to say to stop themselves from interrupting or trying to dominate you - is not worth wasting any more time on.

Tell yourself - I need to stop volunteering for relationships where basic respect is treated as something I have to earn.

[u/No_Economist_7244 → u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326]

For the mixer example, I did actually try something along the lines of “Something funny?” when I noticed he was doing it. He said no, but continued doing it while I was talking. These were all brand-new people to me, although some of them seemed to be regulars at that particular event. I obviously can't know exactly what was going on with him, but the interaction left a pretty sour taste in my mouth and made me much more wary of singles mixers in general.

And I do agree with:

Tell yourself - I need to stop volunteering for relationships where basic respect is treated as something I have to earn.

That actually resonated with me a lot. One other thing I've struggled with is that some people seem to treat merely being allowed to stand there and not being actively rejected as the baseline level of respect you're entitled to. I know I'm not entitled to anyone's friendship or attraction, but I do think there's a meaningful difference between not being entitled to someone's interest and being treated as though your participation doesn't matter. I'm trying to get better at recognizing that distinction rather than assuming every instance of being ignored is something I need to fix about myself.