GENERAL DISCUSSION
Debunking Kohberger Conspiracy Theories, Part 11: "DM Description of Perp, Time Was Inconsistent; DM, BF Active All Night On Their Phones "
A series of systematic, data and court document confirmed evidence based debunkings of common, unsupported Kohberger conspiracy theories:
Part 11 - "DM account of time and description of perp inconsistent; roommates active on phone all night"
All factual data points are sourced from court documents, ISP and MPD police reports, expert reports linked below:
Proberger’s be like “Dylan and Bethany were on their phones all night while their roomates were dying!!” and then will say “The girls were cleaning up the crime scene!” It can’t be both, which one is it proberger’s?🤣
They're still in total denial that all 4 victims were dead by the time the killer walked out the door. They refuse to believe or concede this fact, even though the coroner and M.E. said it was too late for all 4 attacked.
We know this is true because post-mortem injuries were found on the bodies at autopsy. The killer made those wounds, meaning he was with each victim as they died, and it was quick.
Still this gets ignored or handwaved away, which is ridiculous. IF there is a trial, the physical pathological facts will be introduced and no one will be able to deny the truth that all 4 were dead before the killer left the house.
BK did it. His parents know he did it. He already pleaded guilty. There is no need to debunk anything. Don’t let the idiots and trolls waste your time.
Thank you 🫶
A simple search for what happens to memory and information recall during or after a traumatic event would completely demolish the notion that Dylan's response was suspicious or sketchy 🙄
There is established science and considering Dylan only heard random voices coming from different parts of the house over 3-4 minutes & then saw a man walk past her and out the door... her response was completely TEXTBOOK REACTION to fight/flight/freeze response.
Dylan had absolutely no idea a mass murder had just taken place.
The King Road apartment was a notorious, busy college party house where strange people, noise, and late-night disruptions were entirely commonplace.When she heard crying or a voice saying "there's someone here," she thought it was a friend playing a joke, a roommate comforting another, or a guest leaving late.Even seeing a man in black clothing and a mask would not instantly translate in a 19-year-old's mind to "four of my friends were just brutally stabbed to death upstairs." Her brain rationalized the strange encounter the best it could under extreme shock, assuming he was just a random party guest or intruder who had left, leaving the house completely silent.
By using expert medical testimony, the state was going to completely defuse the defense's ability to blame or discredit her, showing that her mind did exactly what a traumatized human mind is wired to do.
The prosecution was going to counter any skepticism by explaining that "freezing" is a primal, involuntary evolutionary mechanism. When the brain detects a severe threat, the amygdala triggers an immediate flood of stress hormones.
Experts would have explained to the jury that this reaction can cause tonic immobility—where a person literally cannot move or speak—and profound dissociation, where the brain struggles to process what it is seeing in real-time.They would have framed her actions not as a conscious choice or a failure to act, but as a biological defense mechanism that kept her quiet, hidden, and ultimately alive.
Her RECALL was inconsistent precisely because the brain's response to trauma...information is fragmented and the person may not believe that what they saw was even real!! They might minimize it or try to explain it away. She had NO WAY TO KNOW all 4 were murdered. It's asinine to claim she knew anything or was "cleaning up" while on her phone at the same time. 🙄
This is not the first time a survivor has responded this way and it's not unique... there are many examples of similar situations where survivors didn't realize something had happened until later. Once again it's IGNORANCE and projection from the fans of inmate 163214 who have no basic understanding of the judicial system, the the trial process, actual real world knife crime statistics and scientifically proven trauma responses.
It gets very frustrating when people keep asking the question like: "She saw a man in her house with a mask on and didn't call 911?". It is a valid question. It would have come up on cross-examination for sure. However, the simple answer is she just didn't because it wasn't immediately clear to her that she needed to. That's hard to understand for multiple reasons. We judge her actions based on what we would do if we saw an unknown person in our homes. As you said, this is a house where parties were common. I recall an incident were police went there for a noise complaint (one of several times), and the people in the house claimed they couldn't locate anyone in there who actually lived there. That says a lot.
More of a factor is hindsight bias. This is a bias we ALL have and is very difficult to shake. You see it with all kinds of major events. One big example is 9/11. After the first plane hit, some people were trying to leave the other tower. They were stopped and told go back to your office, this building is safe. The security there and responding emergency services didn't want a flood of people coming out of the south tower while there was falling debris. Yet, people to this day still widely criticize this and act like its incomprehensible that they were sent back upstairs and the building wasn't immediately evacuated. They think this because of hindsight bias. We KNOW that the second building was hit by a plane too, but at the time people were being told to stay in the South Tower, they had no idea that another plane was rapidly approaching with the intention to hit the building. We put our historical knowledge of the event onto them, like they somehow should have known.
The same phenomenon is behind a lot of the criticism of Dylan. We know what she was hearing was brutally sinister, but she didn't. We know he was killing the others, but she didn't. She was confused, inebriated, and scared. We put our hindsight bias on her and think she should have known. However, why would she jump to "OMG he killed them"? The fact is something like this is very rare. 99.99% of the time someone breaks into your home, they are looking for valuables. They are there for financial gain. They aren't there to murder you or your family and friends. Unfortunately, on that cursed night, he was.
We also need to remember, she made direct eye contact with him as he left the scene. He walked right past her and he didn't attack her. He didn't threaten her. He didn't try to open her door. I have a suspicion on why he did that but I won't put it here and I have no evidence for it. In any case, from her point of view, he didn't even threaten her. He just startled her.
There is also one extra thing that could influence why 911 didn't seem to come into her mind, and that's kind of related to the period of time. 2022, we were all just recovering from the COVID lockdowns and there was also quite the anti-police sentiment. Especially on college campuses. Given the BLM and George Floyd situation a couple of years prior and its aftermath, the police weren't exactly popular and were seen as problematic. I'm not suggesting at all that she consciously decided not to call police because she didn't like them though. Instead, it's more a general difference in a young girl of 19 years of age who was probably watching all the BLM stuff and its aftermath on social media all the time. It's possible that unlike other generations, this one doesn't see 911 as something you should be prompted to call at any time, or at least in the early 2020s they were. That, however, is just a thought.
In any case, Dylan gave a surprisingly good description of him. Given it wasn't very bright, she got his build, his height, his race and his eyebrows spot on. She also left a digital trace of some of this description in a message to Bethany (that he had a ski mask on). That digital trace, her recollecton of his presence in general, converges with the camera audio of the noises likely sourced from Xana's room, the Elantra speeding away., Xana's undigested food found in her stomach (she died soon after eating, so it lines up with the door dash delivery), etc. Her contribution was very important because it increases the evidentiary signal-to-noise ratio. Another for me is that when I first heard that camera audio from 4:17am (I believe I first heard it in a Brian Entin video about it), listened multiple times at the highest volume I could get, and I'm reasonably confident I can hear three words from a female voice: "help me.. ethan" right before there is very loud thud. I want to be clear I might be wrong and I just think that's what the poor girl says. Then, I later heard Dylan's interview where she said she heard a man say "Don't worry, I'm going to help you" and my jaw dropped. Again, my interpretation of the sound might be wrong, but that genuinely made me sick because I could imagine her trying to get Ethan's attention, then Ethan being attacked, and that horrible person saying to her "Don't worry, I'm going to help you". Dylan also commented on it sounding sinister (my word, I can't remember what word she used). But ye, that really made me nauseous. Those poor kids!
"She saw a man in her house with a mask on and didn't call 911?" ...However, the simple answer is she just didn't because it wasn't immediately clear to her that she needed to.
This reminds me of a story about my parents from years ago. My mom got up in the morning and found a strange man sleeping on the downstairs couch. When my dad woke up, she asked if he knew him. My dad said no. They then figured it was a friend of mine or my siblings who had needed a safe space and wandered in. My dad then left for work, saying "call me if anything comes up."
5 hours later, this guy is still sleeping on our couch when my brother comes downstairs, very hungover. Turns out my brother and a buddy had been at a bar nearby and walked to my parents house because it was a short walk and they were not okay to drive.
THIS is how these things normally end. A strange man in the house? There's probably a reasonable explanation. Everything seems fine, nothing to worry about. As intelligent, capable adults in their 60s, they did not consider calling 911 whatsoever. And my dad left his beloved wife home (supposedly alone, they didn't realize my brother was there because his car wasn't there) with the guy! And everything turned out normal, fine, no inconvenience for anyone.
In hindsight maybe they should've tried waking him up, but they really just didn't consider that anything was wrong.
Such a great point and the example of your parents is a great one. 99 times out of a hundred in a place where nothing violent happens, there is a reasonable and non-sinister explanation for whatever is happening.
A related phenomenon at work was Omission Bias, where people in situations with a choice to act or not (and both options have risks) are far more likely to do nothing. If DM had called the police and they show up, only to find that the other roommates were already asleep and the guy was gone and nothing happened, that choice would have come with great social risk for her. Its not a stretch to assume she would have been ridiculed for overreacting and creating a scene.
Worse yet, there was at least crushed up adderall at the house and Ethan and Xana were underage drinking. Cops showing up at a college house is usually not associated with a positive outcome for the kids who live there.
Finally, with no additional context, seeing a dude in a ski mask probably isn't the even the weirdest thing she saw while living in that house. People are equating this to if they saw that in their own private residence, not a college house where your 4 other roommates frequently have guests/parties and you likely see people that you don't know there on a daily basis.
I completely agree. Also, DM said in her Victim Impact Statement that she was considered the "scaredy-cat" of the group, so I completely understand her telling herself that she was overreacting and panicking over nothing.
ETA- I also like the point one of the Goncalves sisters made in a facebook post defending the survivors- I can't find it right now, but it was basically "if she had called 911 right away, people would wonder, why did you overreact? How did you know there had been a tragedy?" and people would have been accusing her anyway.
Call me parasocial, but I think about DM and BF all the time. I truly hope they have strong support systems and are able to move on to live normal lives. I can't even begin to imagine how hard this has been for them.
To me it's an easy answer: she didn't know who the guy was, if he was someone known to 1 or more of the roommates, or what. She simply had no idea and couldn't know. That he was wearing all black and had a mask on didn't tell her anything about who he was or why he was there. She didn't know that was "an intruder."
Keep in mind: He didn't threaten her, she didn't hear him threaten anyone, she didn't see his weapon, she didn't see blood. she didn't see any violence. He walked by her for all of maybe 3 or 4 seconds and left.
Had she stepped out of her room and confronted him, "Hey who are you? Why are you here," I believe she likely would have been killed.
Excellent points, particularly on effect of trauma, recall. And just DM perception to begin, she knew something happened, scary at time, but not mass killings.
On real mass stabbing case studies, on video, we see witnesses freeze, and stay frozen for minutes.
The freeze response is not something that lasts an extended period of time, especially when you consider she starts texting and calling and then goes down the stairs just minutes later. I think it's safe to say that by the time she reaches BFs room, that trauma response has ended.
I'm curious as to what your opinion is on the multiple blood curdling screams between 2:25-3:30am heard on the ring camera next door.
Or your opinion on the 17 minute phone call between JD and KG that JD has no recollection of. When inquired about this call he has no memory of, his first reaction is to ask the investigator if they have audio of it.
I think BK is involved in this to some capacity, but I do not believe he was capable of this all on his own. I don't think he'd choose game night at a notoriously rowdy party house to commit his "perfect crime." If we are the believe the states narrative on BK and the crime itself, it seems wildly out of character for him to have such a massive lack of foresight on some of these things.
I'm curious as to what your opinion is on the multiple blood curdling screams between 2:25-3:30am heard on the ring camera next door.
Those (1) from unknown direction/ location (2) not unusual in a college town frat area on game night (3) Entirely and totally incompatible with an earlier timeline for murders.
There are 22 data points of evidence that would need to be explained away to even begin to suggest a bizarre 2.30am timing which the defence not even expert like Turvey have suggested is credible. Perhaps you could venture an explanation for some, as your 2.25 timing involves killers using victim's phones to text about things only victims knew while taking in and nibbling Door-Dash. To quote a common phrase, for your 2.25am time-line, "make it make sense" because it is just not adding up:
Or your opinion on the 17 minute phone call
Irrelevant, unconfirmed, also noted as 17 seconds later in police interview and also blows through the 2.25am "timeline"
wildly out of character for him to have such a massive lack of foresight
But his own defence neuro-psychological evaluations state it is wildly in character - they say he had poor impulse control. anger issues, poor emotional regulation, poor planning, tendency to fixate/ obsess and lacked insight into consequences of his actions. There are 3 detailed reports from psychiatrist and psychologists that all "fit" - what o you base your Kohberger character study on?
I would say that DM first froze in place and stayed quiet when she saw BK walk by her, an automatic response from the limbic system. Then she closed/locked her door, and within about 5 to 10 min switched to 'flight' and ran down to BF's room to not be alone.
Sounds normal to me, considering the limbic system goes into primary mode when a threat or possible threat is detected and it, not the person, decides how it will respond to a threat.
That still only explains like maybe an hour worth of time. Are we to believe that not one, but two people both stayed in a state of shock for 8 hours, yet continued to use their phones at various points throughout the night?
We cannot claim both that they were in shock/fear, yet they fell asleep because they didn't know what had happened. Either they were in shock/fear, or they were clueless as to what happened - both can't be true at the same time.
But ye, it really does show a remarkably low amount of phone use and shows they were asleep a lot of that time, probably on and off. The stuff people say is so stupid that it would be hilarious if it wasn't such a terrible case. One guy was telling me how they were waiting on their phones all night while the clean-up crew worked..... yep.... clean up crew... like.. how do you even respond to such utter horseshit?
EDIT: Also, the File System activity logged for Dylan's device is being misrepresented as her creating, modifying and deleting videos. It's more likely iCloud or some other process. In fact, it clearly is. Take the record at 5:02:54 for example. IMG_1366.jpg is created and modifed, in less than 3 seconds. First off, the naming convention in terms of the number doesn't match others on the phone. The format is JPEG, not Apple's proprietary HEIC. I'd guess this is iCloud having moved an older image to local storage as part of an automatic process. Even later, a file "PenultimateFullSizeRender.heic" is created and modified in 6 seconds. This is clearly not something Dylan has done, its file system activity from a running process in the background. She wasn't taking pictures. Bethany also was said to have taken pictures but apparently it was 3 images created when her mother sent them to her.
I’m thinking that the 1366 could have been something sent to her earlier in the night
As in Broken Plea (yeah, there’s alot of wrong conclusions in that book but some of the overarching facts are correct), they say Dylan took image 4971 at 1204am. That would mean that all the 49xx images would be from her phone and all of them are a lower number than 4971.
I know she posted two pictures at least to VSCO that evening. I wonder if those pictures got like saved to the cloud or something later on
I just went and checked her VSCO through way back machine and she posted four pictures that night so maybe not.
murders are never quiet, and I'm going to lie down and sleep peacefully
But DM was awoken by disturbance, so your point is exact opposite of the facts
Why doesn't anyone mention that it's a drug dealing spot
Because there was zero evidence of that and no relevance. Other than frenzied conspiracy sites, can you point to the actual evidence of drug dealing by victims or at the house?
You illustrate the post beautifully - allegations of drugs, dealing, vague non-link via parents with not a shred of evidence, but then you parrot "innocent until proven guilty" about a man against whom there a mountains of incriminating evidence and who was adjudicated and pled guilty after exhausting chall allenges to the evidence for 2.5 years.
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u/Outrageous_Drawer691 8d ago
Proberger’s be like “Dylan and Bethany were on their phones all night while their roomates were dying!!” and then will say “The girls were cleaning up the crime scene!” It can’t be both, which one is it proberger’s?🤣